Mike_SilverTSX

Hey guys: It was suggested I put this post in this section:

First, is it just me, or is the system in the TSX substandard?

That said, I read the post about what the system is comprised of, and my question is: if I am going to upgrade on a budget, should I start with, the amp or the speakers? After reading that long thread (a treatise really) regarding the theory of sound, it seems the amp in the TSX is the culprit. Any opinions, suggestions on upgrades are appreciated. Also, if you know the approximate cost, that would be great.

elduderino

Here's my $0.02:

The amp and the speakers in the TSX are actually pretty well matched. (Edited to add - I think they sound crappy, but I think they are well-matched. WHoops) After having looked inside the amp, I would say that Alpine would rate it at 18W x 8 per the CEA-2006 ratings they use on their own head units.

Their speakers are not terrible - they use injection-molded graphite cones on the cone speakers, and neo magnets on the door 6", and cloth soft dome tweeters in the dash.

But the dash tweeters have only a series capacitor for a xover, the door speakers have no xover taking the highs out, and the surrounds are flimsy cloth. These add up to speakers which demonstrate more distortion at higher levels.

You really can't drive these speakers with much more power than they are getting - they would probably sound even worse.

People have upgraded the speakers - they've put Alpine S and R type separates in the front and Alpine 6x9s in the rear - and reported that they had better sound. I don't doubt that they did, but at the same time I really doubt the increase would be worth it to me, knowing what I'm looking for.

Usually, you can't use really good component seperates with head-unit power - it's just not enough. The bettter xovers have series inductors - that robs power. The heavier cones and stiffer suspensions and heavier voice coil innards take more power to push and pull - especially at higher levels.

No, they did a good job of matching the amp and the speakers, and I say for a sound-quality improvement, you pretty much need to replace both.

A 4-channel amp and a front set of seperates and a pair of 6x9 woofers - that can sound pretty good while still fitting under original grilles (except for the amp).

DerrickM

Most people I know are pretty happy with the stock radios in their cars. If you're not happy with yours, chances are you are (like most people on this forum) going to want to build a decent system with an external amp.

Sure, the amp is a lot more work if you're installing it yourself--but well worth the effort (or the expense) of the installation.

My only advice would be this: Do like Elduderino said in an earlier thread and listen to other people's systems that you like to determine what you "need". Then, design your system in advance before doing anything. (Don't be an idiot like me and spend weeks fussing with adding on to the oem system before replacing everything anyways).

Mike_SilverTSX

Thanks for the 2 cents. Do you have a ballpark idea of the cost of those components you mentioned?

elduderino

OK, here's a set of options.

System 1: This one uses coaxials, and does NOT use the dash mounted tweeters. Why? Because I believe that these tweeter locations, being so far from the mid and so close to the windshield (which reflects highs) are very tricky to make sound good, and I don't recommend using very many tweeters in that position.

This one also "mis"-uses some off-the-shelf 6x9s to be woofers only, even though they are designed to play full-range. THey have tweeters but we are not using them.

Alpine 240 entry-level 4-channel amp, $159 at onlinecarstereo.com:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=13202

I'd use these Infinity 6x9s because they are probably OK woofers for $89. I woulnd't run them full range, though, because I don't like INfinity mids/highs.

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=13342

For the fronts, you can get these basic MB Quarts for $99:

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=11008

Here's a wiring kit for $20:

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=12555

So that's $370 plus install, brand names.

System 2:

Alpine's Euro-made Type R's in the front, $269

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=11748

Alpine 55x4 amp for $289:

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=12087

MB Q RCE 269 kit (don't use the tweets or xovers, sell 'em on eBay) for $249:

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...facturerID=624

$20 kit:

~$800., Under a thousand if you upgrade the amp to the JL 300/4.


You could upgrade the front to DLS, a/d/s/, Morel, or Dynaudio. Probably add $200-500...

Mike_SilverTSX

You are the MAN!

elduderino

TY... but I MADE A MISTAKE! THe Alpine's are Type X's, not Type R's, my bad, much different speaker. Everything else is right on that item, I think, sorry about the error, don't buy Type R (IMO).

Mike_SilverTSX

Don't worry, didn't run out to the speaker store on my lunch break. :^) You talked earlier about cross-overs, is this built into the amp, or do I need a separate component?

elduderino

From the amp description:

selectable high-pass/low-pass crossover at 80 Hz, 18 dB/octave (2 separate crossovers, one for channels 1 & 2, another for channels 3 & 4)

This takes the mids and highs out of the 6x9s, and takes the low bass out of the F mids and highs.

Personally, I'd rather have a fully-adjustable xover, like in the V12 amp or the JL, but that's the price of saving money : )

LaterLater

This is good stuff. I'm drawing a plan right now. One quick question, consider me a noob here, very little experience. I've got some knowledgeable friends to help me out with the install. But, from the specs of system 2, I take it there won't be any speakers in the rear door panels. Just the F doors, F tweets, R 6x9. Am I correct?

elduderino

Yes, that's correct.

Check out the SQ for noobs post here: https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/car-audio-basics-sq-noobs-289959/

R speakers are only considered "normal" in cars - because for years the rear was where the larger speakers fit, and you needed R speakers for volume and bass. With a 3-way, high/mid/woof system, no need for R mids and highs - they confuse the stereo image.

Quadraphonic was a failure in the 60's and/or 70's after "Stereo" (2-channel, 2-speaker) was a great success in the 60's. THis was because it sounded like crap.

True "Surround Sound" systems only send specific sounds on dedicated tracks to those surround R speakers - simply putting speakers there doesn't create surround sound.

SOme people are very attached to their R fill. This is America. They can do that... and I respect it. But it sounds better this way. (i.e., more like the recording engineer meant it to sound)

vidoprof

Man I leave for like a week and Eld is a post whore.

The man knows his stuff.. listen to him.. Especially about the DLS stuff. That is all I use.. GREAT stuff.. they won all sorts of awards overseas. not many US distros though...

Get the BEST component set you can afford and forget about rear speakers.. .trust me.

your component set is the MOST important part of your system... well except for the HU. These are what you listen to and hear allday long.. so don't chintz.

Ryan

nbagadio

Just curious...why not the Diamond Audio line for about $229 for their D6 line for $40 bucks less than the Alpines? Thanks for the top notch info El!

elduderino

If that's directed at me... because I don't like Diamond Audio very much?

I use the same tweeter they use in my avincar brand component sets... and they go for about the same price. But I think mine sound better.

They offer the silk-dome option because their metal tweets haven't pleased everyone... but maybe you should ask Derrick for his experience (not with the company, they were very nice, but with their sound...)

DerrickM

Hmmm. I don't wish to disparage any company or their products. DA is exceptionally nice, and happens to be in the Phoenix valley; where I went to high school and my family still lives. I think like any company you'd want to look at their higher-end products for the best SQ. Diamond makes fine products that people absolutely love.

The crux of the problem is buying speakers without being able to hear everything out there first to make your decision. If you can't hear them all first, you need a referral you can trust. Like vidoprof says, DLS wins lots of awards. Hard to go wrong with a company that wins IASCA competitions. I've been using DLS UR6 fronts (*) for two or three months now and I'm very happy with them. (Mids in my UR6's are made in Israel by Morel; a high-end driver manufacturer with an extremely broad line of products).

I would definitely "Get the BEST component set you can afford". (Not sure about the omitting the rears though).


* - I'm a rear fill loving 'communist', as Elduderino would say.

dark inspire

at RearFill comment!!