michep21

School started up again, but I'm gonna go home this friday. Didn't get a chance to go back to work on the car, but when I tried to start the car it didn't start again. So when I get home first thing I'm gonna do is recharge the battery overnight using this charger thing that my uncle has.

While on ACC power, though, the amps turned and stayed on (does a bad ground allow the amps to stay on). Right after I jumped my car, the first time I posted the amps/clipping behave in the same way. I know when the car's on the alternator does the work, but can a low battery still influence the system in a clipping manner? The music again played like before with clipping, the more I turned the volume up the the higher the audio to static-clipping ratio.

The passenger front tweeter/mid seemed to sound the loudest and the clearest audio, while the others had minimal audio and a lot of clipping. Keep in mind it is this one that is closest to the power wire.

I looked at all the wiring and none of the speaker wire seems to touch, but at some points the power wire is a bit exposed out of the terminal (with no insulation).

Daisy Chaining : Here's how I did the remote turn on, straight from the merc harness to sub amp. I twisted another similar gauged wire that came with my amp kit into that sub amp terminal on one end and into the 4 channel amp on the other. On the 4 channel amp I twisted together the exposed ends of the BALUN red wire to the "similar wire" from my amp kit. Both amps power/light up and stay on until I turn the head unit off. As soon as I turn the headunit off, my two subs make a LOUD THUMP.

BALUN GROUND: My dist block from my ground has 3 outs. 2 are for the 8 gauges, 1 each to each of my amps. And the last one is for the black wire from the BALUN.

OVERALL GROUND : I did my ground at the hole on the green arrow. It seems tight and contact is made. I didn't see any paint and it all looked like metal so was I suppossed to sand? CAN someone please point out a better place to ground?




RCAs: The RCA's I bought have a third remote ground wire.

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDe...?prodID=KLA-1M

USA SPEC I also have a USA spec hooked up, would that make a difference?
I have merc's harness going into the HU balanced inputs and the linelevel outputs going into the 4 channel amp. I have the 4 channel preouts L and R going into the sub amp.

Questions:

1. Did I do the daisychaining correctly?
2. Do these symptoms indicate a faulty ground? Can you please indicate where would be a better place? What's a selftapping screw, is a regular screw and bolt fine?
3. Any advice on charging my battery back to 100%?
4. I genuinely appreciate your help, Jeff, but I looked all over the web and still don't really know how to use my multimeter. I tried measuring the end of the power wire with the red lead on the power and the black on the black seatbelt holder above and I got a 0. When I changed the black lead to the door hinge metal that hooks the door close I got some sparks that's when I called it a day.

I want to get all of my inquiries out of the way, so when I get home Friday I can do the diagnostic tests and reground/troubleshoot some more if necessary.


I have a 2005 Acura TSX with navigation.

mercman

Set you meter to the CAR DC Volts 20 position. Put the red lead in the power connector and the black lead in the ground connector. Use the Red to measure the voltage with the black connected to ground. The meter will read the voltage on whatever you connect the red lead to as long as the black lead is grounded.

You amp will be on any time the Acc is on. The clipping is caused by low battery voltage or a bad ground or both. The tests I asked you to do will check for this.

Give it a try.

jeff

michep21

Alright, I can do the testing when I get home Friday.



In addition, to my previous questions, just a couple more...

1. Do you have to sandpaper or use steel wool to brush the place where I grounded? From all indications, does it SEEM like a bad ground?

2. Any screw and bolt is fine right?

3. When using the multimeter, is any piece of metal to ground to fine...and does a weakly grounded black lead give a faulty reading?

4. The questions I still have from my previous post...are
Again, trying to get as much info as I can so on Friday when I charge the battery and post the info merc requested...I can troubleshoot fast

michep21

I still have to do the rest of the tests...but right now I'm moving my ground to where Max put his, under the rear seat bolt...let me know what difference in battery voltage and amp+ground terminal means

michep21

Before I screw the ground into the seatbolt under the seat (the driver's side one) do I put it under the bar (between the chassis and the bar) or do I put it between the bolt and the bar?

And how do I check the resistance using my multimeter to make sure that shit is alright

michep21

Alright, I'm charging the battery right now...I moved the ground to wear madmax did his under the seat

Now with the voltmeter the voltage at the battery terminal is 7.23 V probably because teh trunk light was on. The voltage by the amp is also EXACTLY 7.23 V. This means there's no voltage drop, so I'm assuming I now have a new ground. I'm gonna let it charge for another 20 minutes until it's about 85% or so and then try to crnak it. Right now it doesn't even turn on or crank on battery is dead as can be.

Hopefully once its charged I'm never gonna have to mess with it.

mercman

If the battery voltage is under 10 or 11 volts your amp won’t turn on and you won’t measure a voltage drop. The test at 7.23 volts is in valid so don’t read anything into it. Your first test proved you have a wiring problem, charge your battery and retest. If you still see a voltage drop let me know and I will tell you how to find it.

jeff

michep21

Hey Jeff,

I regrounded it and recharged and still had the same problem with teh clipping. But the voltage was the same at the battery and the amp terminals in the back.

1. So I decided to hook my Creative Zen into the inputs at the amp via my headphone to RCA jack cable.

Lo and behold sound came through clean and clear. I still used the remote turn on lead to turn the amps on by turning the headunit on. Only thing I unhooked was the 4 line level inputs from your balun to my 2 L and R from my Zen. Both the front tweeter,speakers worked--and when I switched to Rear inputs both my rear speakers worked static free too.

Does this mean that the power and ground is good since with RCA inputs from Zen everything was CRYSTAL clear? I grounded the Balun into the ground distribution block...I'm assuming this is not right and causing the turn off pop and distortion.clipping. Thanks in advance for helping me troubleshoot and since your the expert what do you take from my RCA test?

2. I hooked my stock amp back up to the 14 and 20 pin connecter and everything worked too just as before...so theres nothign wrong with the headunit either.
way I grounded the Balun

michep21

Awaiting your response

mercman

Turn the gain(s) on your amp(s) all the way down and set the input level switch (if they have one) to low. Test for the distortion and let me know what you get.

jeff

michep21

Okay, I turned the gains fore my sub amp and the 4 channel amp ALL the way down. I turned off the bass boost as well.

I don't hear music or static until 30 and at 40 I still hear the distortion and static with the clipping.

----

Also, on a side note, before I read your post, I decided to hook the 4 outs from the harness directly into the amp (thus bypassing the BALUN). There was VERY slight crackling but the sound and everything came in crystal clear with no clipping or distortion all the way to full volume. IT sounded nice, but something was missing...it didn't seem full range?

I'm pretty sure my MTX amp isn't differential-balanced. So with that test that means nothing is wrong with the harness (no shorts). I also regrounded the BALUN to my old grounding point next to the fuel pump ground.

So whatever's happening has somethign to do with the balun...let me know how to proceed.

mercman

Send the BALUN back to me and I’ll test/fix/replace it. I will send you a passive unit to use until you get the active one back. I’ll get the passive one out to you first thing Monday (post office closed).

jeff

michep21

Alright...I'll send you a PM

But just a question,

Was the reason that the audio didn't sound full-range (quality wise esp with the highs) because I put the balance signal into an amp that only accepts unbalanced?

And will a working Balun, make everything sound good?

mercman

Yes, aside from the noise, you get a large reduction in channel separation because the (-) side of all the outputs are all tied together.

jeff

michep21

I just got finished putting my car together, even though I ran into some problems...I definitely have that feeling of SATISFACTION. I'll get pics soon.

Now, just need to wait for Merc's temporary BALUN and see the difference and then the Active and hopefully see even more of one

michep21

I've got a pretty moderate "whine," i'm guessing from searching around that it's alternator whine since it goes up and down with acceleration...and makes a "bubbly whining" sound when idle at a stop light.

I'm still waiting on the BALUN, as right now everything is hooked up sans BALUN...i'm hoping the temp balun will clear everything up

Will it or shall I start troubleshootin'?

mercman

The BALUN should clear up your problems so sit tight. I shipped it yesterday you should have it Wednesday.

jeff

wong05tsx

iTrader: (6)

How's this install coming along? been busy at work havn't had much time to doodle around in the a/v threads

michep21

Don't really have much more to report until I go home this friday (been away for 2 weeks) and try the merc's replacement passive BALUN.

But right now I've hooked up the harness' differential outputs directly to my AMP that doesn't accept differential/balanced

so I have a ton of whining and a little bit of snapping...merc said the BALUN should take care of it so lets see

mr.jay.diem

^^ interested... will keep my eye on this thread...let us know how it goes

michep21

Through this ordeal so far, Merc has been great. He sent me the temporary passive BALUN and I hooked it up just now...

but

1. while the balun cut down on a lot of the whine, there is still a slight whine 20% of what it was w/o the balun ( again the "whine" fluctates with acceleration)

2. The balun actually increased the "snapping" or "crackling" coming from the speakers. I have the input sensitivity to low (x1) instead of (x10), when on high its unbearable.

Any of you guys have any idea as to what is causing this? There was no whine/snapping if I hook up my zen directly to the amp inputs. So does that mean either my harness wire has a short/its picking up noise along the way?...

I thought for sure the BALUN would solve my problem...but I guess its all a learning experience.

mercman

Snapping is usually caused by things like the AC clutch cycling or the blower motor, in general, items that draw a high amount of current switching on and off. Alternator whine from is caused by poor grounds and snapping from the AC or blower usually is also bad grounds. You will have to check the engine compartment grounds as well as the dash grounds to the HU and to the engine bay. Also be sure that no other devices as connected to the HU like IPODs and video players.

Recheck your amp gain with the passive BALUN connected and if you want to check the harness test on line at a time to see if they all whine and snap or not.

Do you get the snapping with the engine on or off, clement control on/off ?
jeff

michep21

First I'd like to say...wow you really are something else. I don't know what you do for a living...but maybe audio troubleshooting really is your calling

So I went down to my car and tried all those things out.

With the car off there is no snapping or whine. There's a very very slight hiss (the same that it was w/ CC's install) but that's probably because of my amp's S/N ratio, so no issue and the headunit's s/n.

I was scared to turn the stereo on w/o having the car on because of what happened before...but just now I tested

Car Off/ Air conditioning off- no whine or snapping, slight turn off pop
Car off/ AC on- same as above

Car On/Ac on or off: snapping. An interesting thing to note, the snapping goes away at even the slighest push of the accelerator while the car's on. But I do hear a whine that goes with the accelerator...very slight. So other than "idle" the snapping and whining are mutually exclusive.


So...what shall I do now oh great one.

mercman

Yes, I troubleshoot for a living and I have been troubleshooting and repairing electronics for like 35 years.

I suspect that your gains are too high on your amp. Try turning them down, if you still get noise then try this.

If you are going to do this yourself just follow this rule. Always remove the (-) cable from the battery first. Then always connect the (-) battery cable last. Doing this will prevent did mistakes. Also, you will need to have the codes for your radio and NAV to reset them after the battery disconnect.

OK, let’s start in the engine bay. You have two major ground points, the (-) battery cable on the driver’s side, and the engine block ground on the passenger side by the motor mount. You will need to clean them and reinstall them. The bolts should be tightened to the proper torque but I don’t have a TSX manual so I can’t help you with that. You can check the top of the bolt for the grade stamp and look it up on the internet.

Anyway, remove the battery ground cable from the battery and the chassis and clean both ends as well as the spot where it is bolted to the chassis. Do the same for the engine block ground. Remember to keep the battery side disconnected until you get the other ground reinstalled.

If you still get noise after this then you have to check the ground to the HU. If you suspect the HU ground you can run an 8ga wire from the HU chassis to the battery ground terminal (connect it at the chassis bolt). This is last resort stuff, improving the engine bay ground should take care of it.

jeff

michep21

I wont able to go into the engine bay until Friday or Saturday...

but, I turned the gains down (to about stock levels) and the snapping is there but unnoticable and not annoying. But I need to have my gains higher...or theres no point of me going through the hassle to add the amps.

Also, FYI, my uncle removed the battery to mount the fuse box...so I already know about the codes and whatnot---and I'm not sure if the snapping was there before the battery was removed or nmot since my balun was defective.

Since the snapping is only there with the car on...and with the car off it's perfect...can it still be the battery (-) or does that narrow it down the the other (-)

and...I have no idea what the motor mount is...is this ground easily accessible?

Can you point it out please (not my car)

chhimp

Sometimes the amp is faulty. I had to replace my amplifier with a new one and it was gone. This might not be similar to your problem, but it doesn't hurt to try another new amp just in case.

chhimp

You should also upgrade your battery in the future. I have my stereo on for an hour or two without starting the car and it operates smoothly. It starts car with no problem, but the alternator does work a little harder for a couple of minutes. I couldn't do that with the OEM battery.

chhimp

Sorry for posting a lot, but if the capacitor is really old it causes the alternator to work harder. You should also try the system without the cap.

michep21

Hey chhimp, thanks for the replies...

but

1. I'm having the problem with the car on... on ACC there's no snapping or anything

2. So if it works with the car off perfectly...theres nothing wrong with my amp...also putting RCA in from my creative zen even with car on amp/speakers work/sound great

3. Nothing wrong with headunit since if I put harnesses back to stock everything is dandy.

4. And I don't have a capacitor...my first post was incorrect (this whole thread is a work in progress lol)

5. So the problem with the snapping has something to do with the car on and nothing else. Merc is a genius and once I get to try out his troubleshooting tips I'll post again. But for now does anyone know where the second ground that merc is referring to is (the motor mount one).

mercman

On the left side top in the photo, the silver round thing with all the tubes connected to it is the ABS pump. Look under the pump by the wheel well and you will find a short flat braided wire that runs from the body to the engine. Disconnect the (-) wire at the battery and then remove the engine ground and clean the body and mount where the terminals connect.
If cleaning the engine and battery grounds don’t fix it then look again at your amp ground. Your zen player is not powered from the car so it can not set up a ground loop so it is not a good test of the amp ground.

Since you don’t hear the noise with the factory amp it is a good bet that your HU ground is OK. The aftermarket amp draws more current so it amplifies poor grounds and you hear the resulting noise.

jeff

Jottle

Not to thread jack, but a lot of us on here have that same speaker snapping sound with a completely stock/unmodified audio system. My door speakers and tweeters constantly snap when the A/C condensor fan turns on and off. It's the most irritating thing in the world and no acura techs have been able to nail it down. I suspect it's just bad design on acura's part. I know it's the current draw from the fan, because I hear the fan turn off when the snap comes. The snapping doesn't happen when the hvac system is off. I also hear the snapping regardless of whether the audio system is on or off..as weird as that is. I took it into the dealer and they checked the ground for the headunit and found nothing out of the ordinary. Merc, you seem very knowledgeable. Do you think there's another component that's just not grounded well that I could fix? Or do you wager that the electric system just sucks? I have a completely stock tsx. Searching on the board shows quite a few other posters with the same issue. Any ideas mercman?

https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/stock-speakers-make-intermittent-snapping-sound-385138/
https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/snap-sound-left-front-tweeter-344664/
https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/help-needed-snapping-noise-317794/
https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/tweeters-snapping-my-new-system-tsx-313645/

mercman

First try cleaning the two grounds I described in my pervious post. Make sure that the spots on the chassis where the battery and engine are grounded are nice and clean.

Always disconnect the battery ground cable first and connect it last.

Next, if cleaning the grounds doesn’t help you will have to find the grounds for the dash and fan motor and again make sure they are clean.

You can also try a heavy gauge temporary ground between the factor amp hold down bolt and the (-) battery terminal. If that fixes it make it permanent and call it a day.

As a last resort you can add a noise filter in line with the HU power. Keep in mind that all noise filters depend on a good ground to work.

You can also see if it is the fan motor causing the snap or the AC clutch, for this you need an assistant to watch the AC compressor pulley.

jeff

Jottle

Awesome. Thanks. I'll try it out. Can I just use a metal brush to clean the grounds? Or an electrical contact cleaner? And we're talking about the battery ground and engine ground here. Hopefully that takes care of it. I have no idea how to do the other things you mentioned

Jottle

Merc. When you say dash and fan motor. I'm assuming you mean the dash blower and the fan motor in the engine bay. Correct?