phil217

I am debating on whether to get 2 JL Audio 12w3v2 subs or just one 12w6v2 subg...I was wondering what would hit harder. I would like to conserve trunk space but I like the Bass...Any suggestions on what to get? Any experience with any of these subs?

tuan209

id get one 12w6v2, as the w6s are some of the best sound quality subs you can find. first, the w6 is a better sub overall, and also getting two 12s you will overpower the rest of your system.

elduderino

But there's two ways people use the term "hit harder".

One is louder.

The other has more to do with quality than quantity - the "slam" or immediacy of the bass.

The two 12"s will play louder than the one 12, almost certainly. But the 1 12" can sound better, and be within reach of the rest of your system (which you will hopefully soon upgrade).

You will not be making a mistake if you buy either of those subs, even though some have some theoretical criticisms of their design, they work great in practice.

Bass Mechanic

if you want a sub to "hit harder" then you need to build a more efficient box

your question seems to be more an issue of space because you cant compare 2 subs to 1 sub. the W3V2 and W6V2 have similar cone area. what makes SPL is the cone area and watts you have to work with.

if you build a ported box you can take advantage of the added SPL and tune the box to HIT some particular frequency more efficiently than the others. or if you know what your doing you can tune to have a relitivly flat responce depending on the driver and box you choose.

so to answer your question. if you want it to Hit harder and assuming you have the space 2 subs of the same size will hit harder than a single one will.
for you i would suggest you go with a pair of the lesser expensive sub or choose the sub's whos final impeadance to the amp you plan to run them with will be a good match.
as far as thoes 2 subs i dont have their specs handy but whichever sub has the most SD (cone area) and the most Xmax (linear travel) will have the most SPL if run at its maximum wattage.

DivineCL

Phil217
You sneaky little wiesel.

phil217

Thanks everyone for their respones...DivineCL why am I sneaky?

Bass Mechanic: What would you do if you were me?

Bass Mechanic

i would get a pair of the W3 subs and run a MTX class D monoblock amp. i would also run a ported box. however this setup is probly going to be more bass than you really want. so i would downsize to a pair of 10's

phil217

BAss Mechanic you think this bass could damage my DVD player in the trunk for my Navi? You like the MTX amp better then the JL Audio 500/1 amp? You seem to know your stuff so im askin ya!

tuan209

seriously, unless you must have a JL i would get something else. I wouldnt get anything from JL other than the w6s and w7s, and even then i dont think they are that great considering the price.

my advice is get a single 12, and keep your system simplified.
try one of these http://www.soundsplinter.com/rli_ser...subwoofer.html
they will spank any of the lower line JL subs, and keep its own against their bigger boys. They are very efficient subs, and have an enormous amount xmax at 19.3mm.

if you want a single 10 i recommend the koda 10 or creative sx10 which is the same sub, but rebadged. accsuperstar and I are both running these subs, and they are great. prolly the beefiest 10 ive encounter, and offer great SQ as well. they are pretty efficient as well and have an xmax of 18mm =D.

as for amps, I dont think the quality of the mtx and jl are on the same level. Im not a believer in an amp sonics, but some amps are more well built than others. Look for an amp that is reliable, and puts out clean power.

Bass Mechanic

one of the main reasons i like MTX is the fact that their sub amps have a regulation circuit that will attenuate the gain if the amp starts to clip. this way even if your not sure where to set the gain you cant clip and damage the speakers.
that coupled with the fact that for the money its hard to find as much good power.
as for JL they make great amps. however i have had problems in the past with their thirst for power.
since JL uses a regulated power supply it is critical that you are able to provide the amp with plenty of on demand current.
they draw about 30% more current from your electrical system to operate. if you push it hard it sucks up power at an alarming rate, it will make your headlights flash and probly damage your alternator with time.
Class D is so much more efficient and for subs is a great choice. it wont get hot and is a lot more affordable on your wallet.
if you have a seriously upgraded electrical system JL is a good amp if you dont mind paying for the name.

and i disagree with Tuan about the W7 subs. i would rather spend my money on another sub. they hold several patents on that sub but in all honesty none of which are anything to brag about. there are a lot of short commings with that sub not to mention the price.
their lower end subs are pretty good for a stamped steel framed sub.

and the link that tuan provided for the soundsplinter subs appear to be built in the same build house as mine. they look to be a good sub but i can sell you mine for almost 1/2 that advertised price if that is the sub you would like to use. i have 10 10" subs left i was going to put on ebay but if your interested ill let anyone that wants one get their hands on it before they sell on ebay. i am sure in a sealed or ported application the soundsplinters or mine would give similar results as they have similar T/S data.

oh almost forgot. as for the DVD i noticed in my 2001 Tl that the disk had some marks on it from the vibration causing the laser pickup to hit the disk. it never really caused any problems but if i were you i wouldnt go much more bass than a couple 10's just for that reason.

tuan209

those soundsplinter subs are made by TC. those are the tc2 to be exact and at 160 each they arent bad. there were a few times they had them for sale for about 100 each.

its ok if you dont like the w7, but if you go onto any dedicated audio site they will tell you that the w7 is one of the top super subs made. I wouldnt buy one myself because of the price, but they arent as bad as you make them out to be.

Bass Mechanic

yea i definitly know a TC sub when i see one and your correct it is a TC sub.

im not saying they are bad necessarly, their good points are the oversized design of the surround, very cool! their excursion is good but if you look at the technical data they dont have a very linear BL curve compared to other designs that use a more tradional design.
my main concern with them lies with their motor design. since this is the heart of any sub it causes short commings in many designs. unfortunatly since the majority of people choose to buy with their eyes rather than their ears. and mostly lack the understanding of subwoofer design in the general scheme of things in todays market they are good sellers, and they bring good income for JL.

if you have been in the business for long you should know that the majority of sales for any manufacturer has more to do with marketing. JL has mastered the art of marketing. and its obvious, if you look how short of time they have been in business and how they got started and are now one of the major players it is obvious how they got there. its all marketing.

another good example is Audiobahn, talk about car audio jewelry! i could go on but you get the idea.
in all honesty if the W7 subs cost about 1/2 what they do they would probly in 75% of all installs. not because they are that good, but because once again they do look impressive. and after all all guys know bigger is always better right?

tuan209

well....i think the w7 is good because ive heard one and compared it to other super subs out there like the idmax, brahma, tc9, etc.....

if properly utilized they sound very nice. how many other subs out there do you think are comparable? ill like to know what you think is actually better? there arent many super subs out there.

Bass Mechanic

oh gosh, well in all honesty its been about 2 years since my life revolved around caraudio and what is new these days. this industry changes so fast, but if i was looking for the all around bad ass sub i guess my bet would go to the Eclipse Titanium. for these reasons

1. they are made by one of the best sub build houses in the US (you know who im talking about)
2. they have to date i belive the highest XMAX yet measured by dumax and have had that bragging right i think since they came out.
3. from what i know personally about their manufacturer Eclipse is one of their largest customers and as a result all the latest and greatest technology by TC ends up in thoes products.
i dont know if it has made it to eclipse yet but TC's new patented voice coil that has almost perfectly flat BL curve and i belive they are using the patented tall surround as well as the removable and swappable motor assembly to change the electromechanical properties of the sub.
the patented frame that is only sold under the eclipse name for car audio use is the key to the design.

i also know MTX new 85 and 95 series subs are pretty amazing. but i havnt looked much into them in the years since they came out.

some things about the IDmax, my biggest gripe with that sub is the surround. when viewed under high speed photography you can see the surround cavitate and wobble because of how much additional cone area they used at the expense of the surround. the surround had to be pushed into a tighter roll to accomidate. unfortunatly this causes the surround to become unstable under heavy load.

as for the brama, i never liked it. if you have ever modeled one especially in a sealed box they have a high compliance and therefore a high F3 (above 50-60 hz in most cases) they also need a ton of power to work well. i dont recall their proformance in ported applications but if i remember correctly it wasnt favorable either. for me it takes more than a 50 pound magnet to impress me. if people actually knew how magnets worked and how they work in a sub it would be painfully obvious that again people buy with their eyes, not their ears.
also while XBL2 technology was on its way to a patent TC came out with the new voice coil design that has put the rest of the industry into a tailspin. finally someone came up with the Perfect solution to the old problem of non linear Bl curves and distortion as a result.

these 2 subs once again like JL were becomming big news because of the internet. JL on the other hand didnt need any help from the net, they already had their name when the W7 came out.
all it takes is a few good reviews and people buy into a product. just like my power mouse systems. in 2 years i never had a single return, never a single unhappy customer. in fact in every case no matter how hyped up people got about it and no matter how much i tried to explain just what these little sub boxes could do, everyone who bought and heard for the first time always said it was everything i said it would be and more. it exceeded their best hopes.
i could have continued building them and i know its a lame excuse but i just got burnt out. the cost to manufacture was high and the parts werent cheap. not to mention the 2-3 days it took me to make a single unit going as fast as i could.

anyway when your into sub design as deep as i was. (and i learned a lot of information from my builder on the subject) you then have the information to look into the design a little further than the big magnet and aluminum frame. you have inside knowledge of what actually makes a sub stand out beyond the rest.
unfortunatly, and i will say it again. if people only knew and could buy based on facts rather than looks and advertising everything would be different.
but since the public cant be educated without the impact of falsehoods and rumors manufacturers have no choice but to build based on what the public wants and what sells.

in otherwords i could build you a super ugly sub with a tiny ass cheap looking magnet and a flimsy paper cone that only handels 200 watts that for sound quality would put the rest to shame. unfortunatly no one would buy it. as a manufacturer of speakers we are in fact just audio jewelers we make jewelery so the public will buy it.

elduderino

Good thing he's not bitter...

tuan209

bass,

im not basing any of my facts on looks or what ive read. ive based my opinion on my experiences. you may not like the subs i listed above, but like i said when you go onto any dedicated car audio or home audio sites the w7, idmax, and brahma are more respected than the eclipse. each subs are built for different applications and serve different purposes. some sound better in ported or sealed enclosures, but when properly setup it doesnt really matter.

i really dont think you are giving JL any credit, especially the w7. I guess each person has his or her own personal preferences. =D

Bass Mechanic

Tuan, all i am really trying to get across is that there is a little more to the design than it appears on the outside. be it looks, different applications there is no perfect sub. however some the qualities that make a sub better than others have more to do with technical data. the subs you refer to are mainstreem names everyone can find in their local shop or easily found online in discussion boards.

just because Eclipse isnt as popular doesnt make it a bad sub. they just arent as available as other brands. every company has different goals and needs to keep themselves in business. to be honest i cant recall a single store i have ever visited that carried Eclipse. but i know mostly only the high end shops carry them. why would a high end shop carry somthing what wasnt in the top level of caraudio?
you dont see many because they cost a lot, and your average 16-22 year old doesnt have that kind of money to invest when they can buy a less expensive sub and get the job done at their local car toys.
the only cars i have seen eclipse in are usually high end and very expensive cars. own by people with a lot more money to burn than most.
most people you see online are into caraudio sound off contests, that is whats popular.
bramas and DD subs are very popular in this arena because they can take a ton of power and when you build a huge ass ported box for SPL comps that plays 1 note really loud sound quality really isnt a concern. you can get the job done with a sub whos xmax doesnt matter.
like you said different subs for different applications.
in the 3 you mentioned all have similar properties in that they boast huge XMAX and good SQ.
since Eclipse is in a whole class (by price) by itself its not commonly looked at and also is not sold on Eclipse website where most of the subs you mentioned can be found very easily.
so it's not that it not popular it's just not accessable and little is known about them. does that make it bad? i think not.

oh and it's not that i dont like JL quite the contrary, 90% of the systems i have built over the years i used JL. IMO they are one of the best bang for the buck subs you can buy (except the W7) i dont like the W7 because based on the design of the sub from an engineering standpoint it has shortcommings. it is a very marketable sub to the public on the other hand.
people who know a little more about subs than the average joe also reckognize its short commings.
to the average listener its a great sub. and i have no doubt you and others like it a lot. however it always makes me laugh when people talk about sound quality and then follow it up with "playing rap"
if they knew the first thing about quality sound you wouldnt use rap or techno or hip hop or anything of the sort to describe sound quality. i love all thoes genres of music but i also like country and jazz just about as much.(i am a drummer so i appreciate all forms of music except gospel!)

you asked me which one i would reccommend and we were talking about 3 examples 1of which being a TC driver. IMO and from personal experience i think TC makes some of the best woofers in the business for more than a few reasons. reasons that i mentioned that share design components in every sub they make. i also have a lot of respect for the man that makes them. i have personally shook his hand had lunch and toured his factory before choosing a manufacturer for my own. this man is a walking genious when it comes to subs. though he will be the first to tell you he isnt that good. but the reality is that his designs have far better design and capabilities than any other manufacturer i know of.
so its only fair that when asked what driver i like best it would be one made by the same man as one of the examples you gave me because all the subs discussed are in the same category that were designed with the same goal in mind and would be used in the same applications.

if you want to talk about who makes the best stage speakers for pro equipment i would probly say eminance, since they build more of them than anyone.
again different applications. if you tried a sub like that in a car it would sound like ass.

tuan209

bass, im not trying to question your knowledge or anything but since when has adire audio or image dynamics been "mainstream?" if you go on to any SQ forums people love the idmaxes and brahmas because of their sound quality first, an added bonus is that they provide excellent spl also. those are the main reasons why their are so many fans of the idmax, brahma, and w7. if anything jl and eclipse are more mainstream than either image dynamics or adire audio. ive dealt and heard all the subs mention and personally i dont think the eclipse is in a league of its own.

Bass Mechanic

well thats fine and to be honest most the differences between subs in a car environment arent noticed anyway because of all the variences. if you lock a sub in a trunk it will mask a lot of the anomolies (sp?) between subs. if you were on a board that discussed home audio you might see different names you might not, as you said its a matter of preference. and if it were my money i would probly go with somthing built from TC based solely on the technology in every one of their products.