As I'm sure you all can tell, I am new to this forum. The info here has been very helpful, but unfortunately I am at aloss as to what to do to improve the sound system. I had originally planned to scrap everything including the HU and start from scratch. Then I realized that I would loose my Navi voice and Onstar. I spoke with a rep from Car Tunes in Farmingdale (nice plug, I know someone on here knows Doug) and they indeed confirmed that I would loose my Navi voice but I could save the Onstar by keeping the radio somewhere in the car. I am really not too crazy about doing it that way, I think there would be too much ghetto rigging involved and that's not what I like to do to my cars.

Now here is my question to Iggy; how bad is your engine noise after you installed your amps and everything? I'd hate to spend the $$$ for the installation and have it sound like $hit. I would normally attempt an install like this myself, but I want a custom enclosure in the trunk with the amps flush mounted.

Here's how I see my options:

1. Keep the factory HU and change the speakers and sub. But then which speakers do I replace the factory pieces of $hit with?

2. Keep the factory HU and add on an amp for the aftermarket speakers and sub enclosure; this where I am concerned about engine whine.

3. Change everything and loose the Navi voice and Onstar which, I wreally don't want to do because I'd like to keep all of factory features operational. :yack:

Is there anyone in the Tri-state area that has done any audio mods? I'd really appreciate it if I could listen to different kinds of setups to aide in my decision. Again, I don't mind paying... but I want to be happy. I am also not adverse if anyone with stereo/electrical system knowledge is willing to assist in the operation.

Any advise or personal experiences are greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Matt

 

Hey Iggy, I hear your consultant bell ringing again...

Welcome Matt,
I'm sure Iggy will respond to your questions. He has done a nice job of your Option 2. He has kept the stock headunit and has replaced the door speakers with components up front and coaxials in the rear. He has added an aftermarket amp to drive them, and I believe he is very happy with the results. He had some engine noise problems when he bypassed the awful BOSE EQ unit that is installed in the factory system. He and I ended up working it out so that his noise problems were solved. I don't believe he has replaced his subwoofer yet, but that may be next on his list. He documented all of his great work very well in the following thread(s). Lots of great pics of his work! Check them out.

As for me, I have only replaced the factory speakers with coaxials, front and rear... leaving everything else stock. While it's a nice improvement, I don't think it sounds like enough of an improvement for what you are thinking about doing. It sounds like you want to upgrade AS FAR as you can without losing any of the custom features of the stock system. Check out Iggy's work on the links belown... and use the search feature of this forum for more info. "Streeteffectz" is a great custom installer, that could offer you tons of advice as well. We're here to help...

http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...highlight=iggy

http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...highlight=iggy

Good luck! Southbound

 

Cool.. I have looked at Iggy's work and it is killer!! Its just too bad he doesn't live in the NYC area I was just wondering is he ever got rid of his engine noise and how. If he did.. then I'd definately go that route.

Thanks for the reply.

Matt

 

Yes, Matt
I believe Iggy sucessfully resolved his engine noise problems. He only developed the noise when he went to bypass the crappy EQ unit that is installed in the stock system. The EQ unit boosts high frequencies by almost 20db at 15khz in order to try and produce some highs from the low-end cardboard BOSE speakers without an actual tweeter. Once you simply replace the speakers with good coaxial or component speakers, the EQ circuit is your worst enemy! It makes any decent speaker sound really sibilant and too bright. However, I have duplicated Iggy's final EQ bypass techniques and found that they were the only way to achieve the bypass without causing slight thumps and bumps in the subwoofer when lights were turned on and off, as well as engine noise, etc. However, I lost about 12db of overall volume when bypassing things the way we mutually worked things out to come up with the final configuration. Evidently there is also a gain stage in the EQ as well as the frequency boost. IF YOU ARE ADDING AN AFTERMARKET POWER AMP, you can easily make up for this lost gain in the additional amp. For those of us who haven't gone to that much effort, we have learned how to deal with the EQ beast in other ways.

Iggy and I worked on some various grounding and looping configurations to finally resolve his engine noise problems. I believe they are outlined in one of those links I provided above. I know there's a lot to read and a lot of extra personal stuff mixed in there... but read the thread again that starts out with the EQ bypass wiring diagram where Iggy talks about how the slight noise is driving him nuts. Later down that thread, he states with a big old dropping jaw icon that IT WORKED! After that, I don't believe that he has had any noise whatsoever. He's probably enjoying the fourth... He's one of the better guys to respond with extra help when it's warranted. He's really good at posting pics, and schematics, and other threads, etc.

Since you complemented his work, I'm sure he'll be in touch....

Keep reading the archives and good luck!
Southbound/Southy/SB

 

The links were definately very helpful, infact I printed the whole thread out... do you or Iggy have a final schematic of what the final layout ended up being? I saw a simple schematic in the thread.. but I was wondering if you guys have a more detailed one?!? hey Iggy, how would you like a house guest for acouple of days?? I am propbably atleast as anal as you are.. if not worse! I'd love to have someone like you in ht e NYC area to take this on with me...

 

I guess Iggy closed his consultant stand for a while...

 

TL-S Nut,
The stand will be open in the AM. I have beeeeen going out of my mind with the fourth, and kids, and my latest boat project.....and to top it off I spilled coffee all over my super-fast laptop(which is in repair now), sooooo hang on just a bit!. I hate using my old 300mhz desktop@!

Iggy

 

I'm waiting with baited breath!

 

Whew,
Finally some time to myself!

TL-S Nut,
I was finally able to get all of the nasty noises out of my system with the help of Southbound, and I am VERY happy with the sytem. The only thing I have left to do is swap out the sub and replace it with a Kicker RMB-8 which requires very little work to make fit.

I'm not sure what you mean by final schematics but, really the only ones you would need would be
this and these

Also, I did not lose the Navi voice, but she does sound much sexier now

So,
If you want to spruce up the system I would keep the HU and add an outboard amp along with new speakers. If you do that however you WILL have to bypass the EQ to make it sound right. I found that because I soldered everything together I was able to make everything appear stock behind the HU after it was all taped back up. I doubt very much that any Acure dealer mechanic would notice, so I'm not worried about warranty issues.

The equipment I used ended up being:
JL XR650-CS front
Polk DX-6 rear
Earthquake Tnt-900(65wRMSx4, 200wRMSx1)
two 2ch PAC loc.
Tsunami double shield cable
Cascade V-block front & rear doors
Cascade DEFLEX powerpads (front)

and the spec for the amp:
Earthquake TNT900
Maximum output power: 900Watts
Output Power: 65Watts RMSx4 into 4 Ohms
200Watts RMSx1 into 4 Ohms
Bridged Output Power (5Ch): 200Watts RMSx2 into 4 Ohms
200Watts RMSx1 into 4 Ohms
Distortion: 0.015% THD
Frequency Response: 10Hz-35kHz +/- 1.5 dB
Signal To Noise: 104 dB
Low Level Input: 200mV-4V
Size(WxHxD): 8 1/2" x 2" x 16"


Cheers,
Iggy

 

I just went to Car Tunes to get a quote for the labor and actually showed them your system... they were VERY apprehensive about doing it with the stock head unit!! They were worried that they would blow soemthing up.... and frankly so am I... I would really love to do it myself with someone that has already performed this on their car; hint.. hint..

I am really at a loss as to what I am going to do...

 

Iggy,

What are those snipped wires on the EQ side? You didn't have to install and capacitors or anything like that right?

 

Iggy.. thank you so much for all of your input... just a few last questions... di dyou use a template to make your speaker spacers? What's the thickest they can be and what the deepest speaker that can be installed?

Do you think there is any chance of blowing anything up?? I think I may take this on myself... or if there are any volunteers!!!

 

TLS NUT,
I can answer a few of your questions to Iggy...

The snipped wires at the EQ side of the connector were tied together respectively, just like on the head unit side. The commons were tied together and the EQ ins were tied to the EQ outs. I performed the same EQ bypass as Iggy did and found it NOT to blow anything up. His final printed configuration was the only way to prevent engine noise pickup and proper bass/subwoofer output. The Headunit and EQ unit are definitely strange boxes. They appear to have balanced inputs and outputs with commons that are floating from chassis ground. The head unit has a built in short circuit current limiting foldback circuit that shuts down the speakers if the outputs are shorted, etc. However, the headunit runs very HOT in this mode. Many people have made a few wiring mistakes when changing out speakers, etc. and have caused a short on the output of the head unit. I t has always survived the aftermath. Once the short was found the headunit came back to life. So I don't think you can blow anything up... But anything is possible with certain wiring errors. If Iggy's unit is still running AND SOUNDING fine at this point, I would have to say that his technique does not cause any electronic damage. It does, however, cause a loss of about 12db in overall volume. Since I wasn't going to add an extra power amp to make up for the lost gain... I ended up putting things back to stock and left the EQ in circuit. But if you add an extra power amp... YOU WOULD DEFINITELY WANT TO BYPASS THE EQ or else things would sound really sibilant with way TOOOOOOO much high frequency output.

As far as speaker spacers... Iggy custom made his out of TWO pieces of MDF fiber board. Each 1/2inch thick. As for speaker size limitations... Acura/BLOSE didn't do you any favors! The max thickness of a spacer that you can have is 1 inch. Any thicker than that, and the door panel doesn't want to snap back in place. It will want to vibrate against the speaker which it will be resting hard up against. The max depth that you can have a speaker protrude inside of the door frame before it will hit the window is 1-3/4 inches. The stock basket is 1-1/2 inches deep giving you about 1/4 inch of clearance. I measured exactly 1-7/8 inches from the door frame to the window when I had the speakers out and the window down. I DEFINTELY wouldn't use a speaker that protrudes any deeper than 1-3/4 inch MAX! SO with the 1 inch spacer and the door frame depth clearance. The MAX depth of a door speaker can only be 2-1/2 inches to 2-3/4 inches. This would be from the top of the speaker frame or suspension material to the back of the magnet. The stock spacer/basket is 3/4 inches thick which allows the door panel to snap back into place easily. Iggy was very creative and resourceful with the procedures that he used to make his custom spacers. He'll have to fill you in on the details of his template work, etc. Also there is a door frame hole cutout restriction that will prevent a lot of BETTER grade 6-1/2 inch speakers from fitting. Some people have used 5-1/4 inch replacements of their favorite speaker because of these dimension restrictions. The door frame speaker cutout hole is a slightly oblong shape that is about 4-1/4 inches wide by about 4-1/2 inches high. Most 6-1/2 inch speakers ask for a 5 inch or larger mounting hole. I looked at some MB Quarts speakers but they were gigantic when I took them out to the actual door frame. Sometimes the higher spacer is required just to allow the basket of the speaker to fit into the small door hole cutout. Others have gone to the effort of actually sawing out the door frame to a bigger size. I didn't want to get involved with that on my 1 month old car!

Hope some of this helps.... In a search for speakers, you might want to do what I did... Take the passengers door panel off and remove the BLOSE speakers... and then go to a shop and take the speaker outside and see how it will or will not fit into the existing door hole, etc. You can make up an adapter cable to plug into the factory harness and then clip onto the new speaker. You will soon find out that what you hear in the store is NOT what you hear in the car. (watch out for shorts to the door frame when you do this! Put a lot of layers of duct tape around the door hole cutout so that no terminals will short out while you hold the speaker up to the hole and listen) Most speakers will sound REALLY pre-emphasized in the highs and sound like crap out in the car. Others will not be efficient enough to be driven by the headunit. But again, if you're adding an aftermarket power amp, that wouldn't be an issue for you. The factory speakers ARE 4 OHMS... Some BLOSE speakers are like 1 Ohms... These TLS ones are not. Don't let an installer tell you different. However, The TLS BLOSE subwoofer is only 1/2 OHM though! The lower impedance speakers make more sound output if you have an amp that is stable to drive that low of an impedance. So keep that in mind when dealing with the subwoofer... The door speakers, however, are conventional 4 ohm speakers. They are just very efficient at midrange frequencies. and SUCK at everything else!

Good luck!
Southbound

 

TL-S Nut,

There are no caps or resisters for the EQ bypass. All you are simply doing is looping the open ouputs back into the EQ. Southbound explained everything much better than I can, but all in all the bypass is very simple. The hardest part is removing the center console and trim to get the HU out. Once your in, it is just a matter of snipping six wires and then connect them back up according to the little diagram I made. You could make the connections using either crimp butt-connectors, wire nuts or my favorite method of soldering.

As far as the spacers go, no I did not make a template. The spacer dimensions are going to vary depending on the model of speaker you have. 1 inch thick is the max and was also what I needed, but I've seen some guys get away with 3/4" or even 1/2" spacers because they had thinner speakers.

In my case, I used the factory basket outside diameter for the bottom spacer and then measured the speaker for the dimension I needed for the top spacer. After cutting them with the Rotozip I simply glued and screwed the two together.

I'm not sure who Car tunes is, but if they are not familiar with this setup maybe they should'nt be touching it. Ron from Street Effects is pretty close to you. I bet he could do the bypass soup to nuts in 30-45 minutes(how about it Ron?)

Good luck whichever way you go.

Iggy

 

Hmmm. I wonder how much Street Effects would charge to install 2 pairs of speakers, 2 amps and build a custom amp rack/sub enclosure?? Are his prices reasonable? I would like to do it myself... I know
I could do it... but I also know I wont have the patience either...

I am pretty handy and have done ALL of my stereo installations and some of them pretty sticky as well... but I feel that I am loosing my patience for it... old age maybe? Mid life crisis @ 27?? Nahh!

Thanks for all of the info.. it has definately been very helpful.... BTW do you have ron's # by any chance?

 

One more quest.. just to make sure I have this right... I cut the wire from the HU in front of the EQ and connent them together.. right?

 

Here's Ron's number: 732.388.7000

There are two connectors that plug into the HU. One blue and one black. The black one is the target here. After you get at it and remove a good portion of the electrical tape around it(say 6-8 inches) you will see the wires very clearly. I snipped mine about 3-4 inches from the black connector. Hope this helps.

Iggy

 

Iggy where did you run your 4 gauge cable through? I only see one factory grommet and it was a ***** to get a 16 gauge wire throught it!!! The onle I am talking about is right behing the brake fluid res.

Thanks!

Matt

 

This is where I went trough, but I only used 8ga wire.
grommet 1 Grommet 2

There is another grommet people have used which is pretty much much in the middle of the firewall down low. If looking from inside it is above and to the right of the gas peddle. Either way it takes a little elbow grease to get wires through.

Iggy

 

I know.. it is a pain!!! The one by the brake fluid is almost impossible to get a 4 gauge wire through!! I'll have to look at that other one...

Thanks again!

 

if you're running a 4-gauge wire, i would recommend the "other" grommet that iggy's talking about... the one by the gas pedal. it doesn't have any wires running thru it, so u don't have to worry about damaging anything. i just drilled a hole, then lubed up the wire and pushed it thru, no problems. for a picture of the grommet location, check out this thread:

http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=37582

 

Is that grommet large enough for a 4 gauge cable?

 

yup, the grommet is big enuf for a 4-gauge. i know for sure, cuz that's the size i had to run for my amp

 

Did you drill the hole from the inside or outside?

 

i drilled it from the outside. i used a 3/8" bit. make sure u lube up the wire using grease, and just push it through. it may take some force, but since there aren't any other wires or anything running through there, you won't have to worry about damaging anything.

good luck!

 

You can easily get 4 guage through the first hole (the one behind the brake master cylinder. In fact i got a whole bunch of wires running through there for the alarm, in addition to the 4 guage. Just make a slit above where all the factory wire is running through and then push a stiff piece of bailing wire (or a coat hanger) through there into the engine compartment. Wrap the 4 gauge onto the wire (at least 8 inches worth) using good quality black tape. I only use 3M Super 33. Then spray down the wire with Pure silicone spray, and pull the wire right back through the grommet. DO NOT use WD40 as this will cause the black tape to start to unravel, and it wont hold the wire on as you pull through. Last tip - be sure to wrap the electrical tape all the way over the end of the 4 gauge wire so that the end of the wire doesnt get stuck on the grommet as you start to pull it through. Taper the electrical tape down over the end of the wire and you will have success.