mcdanjw

I spent some time this weekend replacing the stock door speakers with some MB Quart DSD216s. Installation was pretty straight foward except that the Quart didn't fit in the stock baffle well without hitting the metal of the door. So I went to Best Buy and got a 1" spacer. Once I screwed those into the door, the MB Quarts fit perfectly.



I also cut the line level outputs behind the deck and spliced my AudioControl 4.1 into the system. It is now in line between the deck and the stock amp. This made a HUGE difference with the stock speakers (before I put in the MB Quarts). If you are considering adding an EQ, DO IT! I did have to use a ground loop isolator to stop a small amount of noise when the motor was on, but once that was installed there is absolutely NO NOISE WHATSOEVER. Since there really isn't a good place to install it, I placed between the driver's seat and the console for now. I'm planning on getting the piece of trim with the cupholder from an 03 6 speed and modifying that piece so the eq fits where the handbrake would have been.



I also installed some new switches for my dvd on navi relay and various other gadgets I have running.



Here's what it looks like at night. The other blue light is the control for the AudioControl Epicenter.



I am still using the stock amp to drive the MB Quarts and it sounds really good. Though it there was a noticable decline in volume (as I expected) from the stock speakers. Yet it still plays plenty loud enough for my taste. We'll see if it has negative long term affects on the stock amp.

AcurajL

Very good work, now find a good place to put your EQ and you will be set for now.

jproy

Not enough bass! Not even near as much as what my stock 95' EX Accord had. I have read almost every single post in the A/V Electronics forum and still have some questions left unanswered. I currently have a letter into BOSE and am awaiting a response;

Letter:
.................................................. .........................

Hello,
I have just purchased a 2003 Acura CL-S 6-speed and I have a few technical questions about your system that I figured only you could accurately answer.

-What is the RMS (power capacity) for each BOSE speaker in my Acura CL-S?

-If and where are any crossovers (capacitors) located between the BOSE amp in the trunk and the component speakers (6.5"woofer and 1"tweeter) in the driver and passenger doors?

-If there are crossovers in-line or in the amp (which?) at what frequency is the crossover set? For the Front and Rear?

-Is there some kind of crossover in the system that eliminates some of the ultra-low frequencies for the front component speakers? The 6x9's in the rear deck-lid produce significant ultra-low frequency (rap type bass 50Hz) while the 6.5" woofers in the doors produce none.

-What is the power output for the factory Pioneer Deck? I know that the BOSE amp is rated at 25watts x 4 @ 2 Ohm. Is this correct?

-What are the frequency ranges of the BOSE speakers? What frequency range are they capable of reproducing with the BOSE amp? What about with a high-end aftermarket amp?

Thank you so much for your time and help in this matter. While I understand I am asking a lot of questions your help would be greatly appreciated.

.................................................. ................

Any information relative to these questions from forum members would be appreciated.


mcdanjw I have read your post where you had placed an equalizer in-line between the Pioneer/factory deck and the BOSE amp. What kind of high/low adapters were used? How many, what type, (deck)High level to low level RCA to high level(amp)? How? I would like to know specifically what kind of gains in low end frequency response you experienced with the stock amp, stock speakers, and aftermarket EQ. How much better? Just better or awesome? Is it worth the $250(EQ and adapters) or should I just buy a new high end amp($400) for the stock speakers? The main goal I want to accomplish is to get significantly more low (60Hz) bass from the 6.5” door speakers (with respect to there size). In your first picture on this thread what is the round metal thing laying on the ground attached to the door?

In addition, I want to add a sub with sound levels equal or better than the bass from the stock sub in the Acura TL. Where and with what does anyone recommend those levels can be achieved?

The set up I am considering is to put an EQ between the BOSE amp and the Pioneer/Stock deck and then adding a sub with a high pass to low pass converter from the high outputs on the BOSE amp.

Thanks for any help.
Jim

mcdanjw

I'll answer the questions I know:


-If and where are any crossovers (capacitors) located between the BOSE amp in the trunk and the component speakers (6.5"woofer and 1"tweeter) in the driver and passenger doors? I did notice a small capacitor that was part of the bose tweeter in the front, I assume to remove the lower frequencies, but I didn't see anything else on the front speakers. I hooked the wire feeding the stock 6 1/2 for my mb quart crossover, and there is high frequencies coming from that wire, so I assume the tweeter is the only speaker in the car that is 'crossed over'.

What kind of high/low adapters were used? How many, what type, (deck)High level to low level RCA to high level(amp)? NONE. The outputs from the factory deck are LINE LEVEL. You will find posts around here where people used LOCs of different varieties, but they are not necessary. I soldered RCA plugs to the wires coming from the stock deck and plugged them into the EQ. I then took the output wires from the EQ and plugged them into RCA soldered onto the wires I cut behind the deck in the dash that lead to the stock amp. I did have to put a group loop isolator on the input of the EQ to stop a small amount of noise while the engine was on.

I would like to know specifically what kind of gains in low end frequency response you experienced with the stock amp, stock speakers, and aftermarket EQ. How much better? It is acutally hard for me to say about the bass since I have a 12'' sub hooked up... I always had more than enough, but the sound quality was MUCH BETTER. In my opinion it is very worth $250. The connectors won't cost you much, say 6 bucks plus $15 for the ground loop isolator (I only needed one since I am only using the front output from the stock deck) I don't think you want to hook an aftermarket amp to the stock speakers. The stock speakers are a low impedance (maybe 1 ohm or something, never seen a post that had a definitive answer) which is backed by the significant decrease in volume I got when they were replaced with 4 ohm MQ Quarts. Replace all of it if you are going to replace any of it. I am currenly looking for an amp to hook up to the fronts since the stock amp is just not strong enough.


In your first picture on this thread what is the round metal thing laying on the ground attached to the door? That is a spool of wire... it is not actually hooked to the car.

The set up I am considering is to put an EQ between the BOSE amp and the Pioneer/Stock deck and then adding a sub with a high pass to low pass converter from the high outputs on the BOSE amp. The EQ is a great idea. Keep in mind that if you don't want to use a high/low converter for the bass, you can tap the line level leads coming from the stock deck just before they enter the stock amp in the trunk and do a similar RCA splicing project and plug those directly into your sub amp. Again, you might need a ground loop isolator to stop (and it will completely) noise when the engine is on.

Hope this helps.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

It has no power output. It's line level signal gets send to the amp in the trunk.

Don't know off hand what this is, but it might be in a helms manual, or stamed onto the back of a speaker.

jproy

mcdanjw and fuzzy02CLS,

All of Your comments have been extremely helpful!
Thanks for the rapid response!

What I think I will do after reading your post is to put in an EQ in the center console or in the trunk. I will probably get one with four channel RCA inputs and outputs as well as an additional subwoofer RCA output with controls for the sub. Or I could get one with only four RCA inputs and outputs and no sub output RCA's. With this set up I would splice in RCA's in the lines in the trunk before the amp. What do you think? What will work best in your opinion? Should I ideally connect the EQ in the trunk, immediately before entering the amp, or behind the deck immediately after exiting the deck? I will not need to play with it except for the initial adjustments, I think. Do you recommend not using a four channel EQ? Where is the best place to get power for the EQ; ACC, constant, ground. Are they all powered? I have done many car audio installs but by some chance I have never installed an EQ.

Do you happen to know the max voltage of the output lines on the Pioneer/Stock deck? Ie. 2volt, 3volt, 4volt

What is the best high quality ground loop Isolator to use? Could you name a few? I have used some very crappie ones in the past. Do you have any recommendations for an EQ. I am currently looking at some SONY and Kenwood EQ’s.

Maybe I am slow today but what is an LOC?

Can you recomend where I shoud get some high quality RCA to wire connections to solder into the linelivel wires?

Your help has been invaluable,
Thanks,
Jim

mcdanjw

As far as your EQ placement goes... I personally prefer to have it where I can mess with it all the time. Seems that different songs have different qualities, especially with the bass, and I find myself tweaking it all the time. If you can put it in the passenger compartment, then I would do it that way. Of course, it is hard to find anywhere to put it in our cars.

As far as the subwoofer thing, getting an EQ with a sub out is a great idea. That will simplify your install significantly and probably keep you from needing a second ground loop isolator. I have 2 in my car, both of which I got at Radio Shack for about $15. Seem to work fine to me.

As far as the 2 or 4 channel eq, I really don't think it matters. I just used 2 channels coming from the deck and the EQ has 4 outputs, so I just use the fader on the EQ instead of the deck. Works for me. It's not like you ever adjust that anyway.

There are all kinds of places to get power for the eq, just find an appropriate wire in the fuse block on the left side of the dash that is switched with the ACC position.

I don't know what the output voltage of the stock deck is. I haven't seen posts where someone had figured that out yet. I have been using my AudioControl 4.1 with the stock amp for over a year now and haven't had any problems... so I don't think the increase in voltage has hurt anything.

LOC --- line output converter.

jproy

Alright then,

Thanks again for the help and rapid response. I don’t think that I ever mentioned that my car is a 2003 CL-S 6-SPEED. I now feel comfortable and am going to start buying parts. However, I still have two questions. Do you think that it would be ok to power the EQ by splicing the power wires for the Pioneer/Stock deck right behind the deck? Secondly, do you have any recommendations about where to find a high quality, or any, RCA to spliced wire adapters for splicing in the EQ to the line level wires?

Do you think SONY and Kenwood EQ’s are good? They make one that has 4 channels input, four channels output, and a sub out put. It is only or less than 4 inches wide and an inch tall.

With regard to a sub, I would like to have bass as good as the stock TL’s sub produces inside the passenger cabin. I don’t want to rattle the windows of homes a ½ mile away. With respect to the sound waves having to travel through the rear seat back to enter the passenger (in an aftermarket configuration) cabin where can you recommend I start?

If and whenever I get a response from BOSE with regard to my first questions I will post it FYI.

Thanks again for all your help.
Jim

mcdanjw

Do you think that it would be ok to power the EQ by splicing the power wires for the Pioneer/Stock deck right behind the deck? Yes, that would work well. The EQ is not going to take much power so it shouldn't cause a problem.

Secondly, do you have any recommendations about where to find a high quality, or any, RCA to spliced wire adapters for splicing in the EQ to the line level wires? I actually bought some solderless RCA plugs at Radio Shack. I wanna say they were 2.99 for 4 (and i bought 2 packs). They weren't gold plated or anything, but seem to work great. I then used some wire taps (the kind that you have a receiver for the external wire to plug into once you put a small plug on it) on the wires in the wiring harness in the dash. I actually stripped the wire first, and then soldered the wire inside the wire taps so as to be sure that I never get a bad connection. I then used a small section of speaker wire, maybe 2 inches long to put inside the RCA plugs and then put the terminals that plug into the wire taps on the other ends of the wire. And then just plugged them in where they needed to go.

Do you think SONY and Kenwood EQ’s are good? Yes... I think you will have good luck with just about any major brand EQ. I have a 1/2 DIN (the size you are talking about) Sony electronic EQ in my wife's car and love it. I would just go with one that you like the controls and the way it looks.

With regard to a sub, I would like to have bass as good as the stock TL’s sub produces inside the passenger cabin You might look at a powered sub, like the Infinity Basslink. It doesn't produce teeth-chattering bass, but adds quite a bit. Having the amp and sub in one package will simplify the install and take up as little room as possible. Many people on the board have installed these and seem to be quite happy. I bought one for my friend off eBay for $220 shipped.

jproy

mcdanjw,

Thanks again,

The only other question I can think of at this point is how do I know, does it matter, which part of the RCA connector is the positive and negative terminal? I know which of the line-level wires from the back of the deck is +/- but how do I keep it strait through the RCA connection. Maybe it doesn't matter as long as the one I make positive and negative ends up the same when the wires get back to the amp. Is there a specific terminal polarity necessary for optimal sound as line level passes through the EQ?

Thanks again,
Jim

mcdanjw

The postive lead goes on the inside of the plug... the outside is the ground (or negative) connection.

I had to look that one up myself when I did this!

AcurajL

Are you guys not busy or do you like playing around with this stuff. I did this for a while when i was 15 to 19 yrs old., but now (23) I just go to the local audio shop and pay them to the dirty work and it always looks better and i save time. Did you ever consider this jproy or mcdanjw?

jproy

mcdanjw,

Thanks for the additional info.


AcurajL,

Your comments about having someone else do the dirty work are appreciated. I would love to not have to worry about all this. For the record I do enjoy being informed and educated about exactly what is going into my automobile (one of the most expensive things I own). Here in south Louisiana it is very difficult (almost impossible) to find an audio shop that has enough experience, honesty, and knowledge to do the job perfectly with the ideal setup and cost effectiveness. On the other hand, while I could easily afford to pay a shop, I am extremely confident in my research and attention to detail as well as experience. I am just too afraid to trust my baby to some 18 year old punk in an audio shop who cant wait to get off work and doesn’t care if something he knows I will never see is half-assed. I am a bit of a perfectionist. Gotta be done right or I can’t sleep right. While I may have a local shop do some or all of the work I want to be able to know that they are doing it in the proper fashion and not selling me crap I don’t need. For example: two of the shops I have already gone too to look at upgrading the system said that they have worked on the same Acura system before and neither of them mentioned the fact that the Pioneer head unit emits a low level signal and tried to sell me high to low to high level converters for me to use to install the EQ.

In summation, it is always best to get a second, third, and fourth opinion when your money is involved.

Stay’in educated and aware,
Jim