Rear speakers are like going to a concert and turning your back to the stage. Sounds Great???

 

The real reason that car companies use rear speakers and MANY speakers nowadays are because Joe Schmo has NO CLUE about SQ. they hear.. OOO DAMN THAT THING HAS 7 Speakers it must be good. I mean I just helped a guy buy a Lexus LX470 SUV and IT IS A SWEET ride don't get me wrong, but that Levinson 7 speaker surround upgraded radio is NOT the best thing in the world like Lexus makes it appear. And the guy I was helping was like " But it has 7 speakers isn't that good.":

Basically SQ comes down to LESS better speakers giving you the PROPER sound stage in a car (which btw is a very difficult feat)

Eld I don't think he meant to hurt your feelings.. just a newbie as we all were at once except maybe YOU. I do think you SHOULD read the SQ for newbies sticky at the top of the thread though as that has some REALLY good info in there, some too technical but other stuff is spot on perfect. Also written by Eld.

He is a great source(Free also) for information and he doesn't ask much except that IF you do ask that you DO LISTEN. You did ask for a reason right??

I used to think that rear speakers were sooo great.. louder and sounded "better" they DONT, although I DO have rear speakers mine are for a totally different reason, but my SQ LACKS because of it (my gf loves the movies in the car and she likes the rears.. So I obliged.

Rear speakers are overrated and IF you really do want SQ REAL SQ then don't get them and get a lot better front comps.

Just my .02

Ryan

 

well put Ryan! many people thing them more speakers, the better which isnt the case when it comes to SQ. I think i have learned the most from the A/V section of this board then any other forum, and thanks to Eld and the other experts here for being patient w/us 's and explaining things that are basic and common knowledge to them

 

I'm thinking about getting Alpine F545 for my main amp. Now question is, if I get this unit and hook up 2 channels for my F speakers and remaining two channels with each sub assuming I'll get myself another 12. Basically I'll have two 12's connectcing to each channel on that sub. Would I be overpowering this amp??

 

Not sure what you mean, overpowering the amp. Can you clarify?

Maybe I missed a post, but I thought you were going to go with 1 12". If you do, that amp can be bridged to mono on the back 2 channels and that's how you would driver either 1 sub or 2 subs (amp gives more power that way if you wire everything right...)

I did see your post about "spend more money". Sounds like you are getting frustrated, which I can understand to a great degree. You're looking at doing an expensive project, no reason to stop short right at the end.

I don't think that you HAVE to spend more for SQ in total. Often I think that decisions for sound quality go towards less, rather than more. I think that *installation technique* is important for SQ, as well as spending more on a couple of things, like front speakers.

Given your stated budget, I think you can have a great sounding car. It doesn't have to be complicated. You will have some shortcomings - tradeoffs are a part of ANY budget - but you can have a great sounding car.

For example, you could go with the Alpine HU that you already picked out, kit from Street effectz that matches your dash trim (metal or wood or smooth flat black, I think), a 545 amp, and that 12" you already have. You can buy a good-sounding box from edesignaudio.com for $125 or so. Use Alpine X-type components, the 5.25s.

System will sound VERY good, have a lot of bass, play pretty loud. AT THAT POINT you can decide if SQ is the way you want to go, or if you want more SPL (volume/bass).

At that point you can add R speakers and a mono amp, let the 545 power all 4 corners, and sell the single box to someone - thus giving you more power, more bass, R fill, and more SPL.

OR you can get an EQ or consider a higher-end SQ HU or processor to fine-tune what you have, or go nuts on damping the car, or make kick panels instead of using the doors... that's the SQ way to go.

There's an entire system map : )

Of course, I can do a cool system with what I sell too... but we're dealing with Internet stuff here, of course. If I were doing it in that price range, I'd probably use a DLS 3-channel and a set of either the DLS 6.5 or the a/d/s/ 5.25... the a/d/s/ tweeter is a lot shallower and might fit the potential locations better. My avincar's would fit that as well... with the 6.5...

I'm still not convinced that without an EQ, the 5" mid doesn't sound better for vocals than the 6.5"...

 

Well here's where I'm at... I got offered 50 bucks from someone local for my dual woofer box... so if I sell it, I bought my single 12" JL W3v2 for 120 which i think it's a great deal... Only reason I was thinking about going with 2 12" is that seems like I can get another one for same deal that I got before plus I already have the box so why not??? b/c if I sell my dual box and get a single one, that would cost me 70 to 80 bucks extra no?? I rather have it customized here in local rather than that edesignaudio.com to save some shipping charge.. unless that 125 already includes shipping...

So that's why I was asking if I go with a 545 amp, it would support two subs using two rear channels and F speakers with two remaining channels.. but then again I just checked its specification and number doesn't seem high enough to support that correct???

Out of every reply, I think ur last one was most helpful.. (one about I can go with my current setup and if I want more bass I can add R speakers and add another sub).. so here's what I'm gonna do.. I WILL get that 545 amp, and either Alpine X 5.25" (SPX-137R Type X2 component system) or JL Audio VR650 CSI or XR650 CSI.. my question is this.. just from their specifications, Alpine SPX-137R is more compatible with JL Audio VR650 CSI... so can you actualyl compare SPX-137R with XR 650 CSI or can I just assume XR 650 is simply better b/c it puts out more power and such.. I'll take your advice and spend most amount of my budget on F spekaers so I'm not too worried about their prices. Another thing, u mentioned that with Alpine, I would have to get 5.25" to fit in my car, how about JL audio?? Do I need 525 or 650 model?? please verify before I make the purchase

I'm getting frustrated with 545 Amp specifications b/c it seems to give me different info on each website I go to... some says 100W X 4 at 4ohm and 125W X 4 at 2ohm.. so if I set my sub parallel which is gonna make it at 2ohm, can I bridge two channels making it 250W to support my sub and use the remaning two channels to support my F spekaers?? (won't this be too much tho? b/c i was reading and for these speakers recommend watts was from 25 - 100 watts)

I contacted Ron for his kit but no reply yet, and most likely I'll go with Alpine or Pioneer HU unless you can make more recommendation. Within Alpine what kind of features should I look for? I'm not really concerned about its graphic, XM radio capability,...etc... my main focus is to play CD-R, CD-RW, mp3, wma... all that good stuff and if it would support my ideal sound system that i'm about to get.

Much appreciate, and once again, i'm terribly sorry if I offened you last time

 

No worries, I like to pull a Lewis Black now and again... but I know most people in retail are doing their best, that's all. The current trend in Internet pricing means that you might not have any good gear to buy at all within ten years.

1) Speakers don't put out power, they accept power, and as a general rule good-quality mids and highs shouldn't be evaluated by power handling unless you are doing something godawful with amp size. For one, that power handling spec 9 times out of 10 is running full-range, and as soon as you take the bass out with the amp's xover, the mechanical power handling goes up.

2) I'm not convinced that the JL 6.5 fits in your car with no mod either... so beware. I don't think they're as big as the Alpine 6.5s, but I think they're big. Anyone else with experience with these? (JL doesn't do as many mids and highs so I haven't seen that many).

3) You can bridge the amp 3-channel, whether you use one sub or two. Since your subs are Dual-voice coil 4 ohm subs, I mis-spoke earlier. Running one sub, you should wire it in 2-channel mode and run it 4 ohms per VC. That should sum to about 250W in real use.

4) All amps have lots of different ratings - 2 Ohms stereo, 4 ohms stereo, 4 ohms mono, at 12V, at 14.4, from 20-20kHz, from 20-200Hz. The 545 looks even more confusing because one side of it seems optimized for bass and the other side for mids and highs, so when bridged one side gets more powerful than the other does - BUT you cannot bridge the amp into 2 Ohms! So if you go two woofs that are DVC, you should series each pair and then parrel the two pairs and bridge into 4 ohms, OR run the bass side 2-channel with two parallel voice coils per side.

As far as HU's go, I forget if you were going with the OEM HU or upgrading. With your budget, maybe you can spend money for the seond 12" on the new HU... I'd get an Alpine 9853, or a Clarion 9255 or Denon DCT-R10 off of ebay. Or a Rockford Denon CD player (Rockford branded, Denon through and through, better sounding than almost anything you can get today). I have one in the barn : )


Don't worry too much about power ratings... worry more about impedances and parallel series wiring and the load an amp wants to see. If you want the background on that, check out bcae1.com...

Finally, since you would only have two 5.25s and two tweeters, if you DO go with two 12"s, you would be bass-heavy in the sound department.

 

Okay, I know you guys have been telling me that R speakers are pretty much useless but I got confused while playing with my stock headunit this afternoon. Under CL stock headunit we can set our Fade option. When it was faded all to F speakers, I sorta leaned towards the backseat and of course I couldn't hear anything from R speakers (duhhh). and vice versa... now here's my question. If I were to disconnect my R speakers when installing aftermarket F speakers as well as amp and subs, is it going to be just like what I would experience with fade option set to F speakers? Or would I even have to fade it to my F speakers ?? When the fade wasn't set to either speakers, it seemed to provide 'surround' sound as well as higher volume.. I kinda liked that... to sum it up, Can I just assume if I only replace F speakers and disconnect my R speakers, I wouldn't hear anything in the back portion of my car as well as wouldn't recieve that 'surround' feeling in the cabin??? Hope I worded all this correctly, =)

 

Well, two things.

First off, when you have a set of mids playing good realistic midbass (something the OEM speakers don't do), and you have a subwoofer playing good sub-bass (ditto) the bass seems to be up front with the mids. But the midbass needs to sound good.

Secondly, the surround feeling is a sensation that has nothing to do with stereo. If you find that pleasing, that's great, but it's not the goal of stereo recording, stereo recording engineers, or stereo playback.

What you might want to do before you spend money one way or the other is to go to a store like Sound and Cinema in Alpharetta. Tell them you want to hear a good stereo music system. Ak them to spend a few mintues with you, and that you're not in a position to buy anything, but you've grown interested in what good stereo sounds like.

If you get interested in the way their demo sounds, great - you are now chasing the illusion.

If not - if it doesn't seem different to you or not interesting or impressive - then go mainstream mid-fi. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Hey eldurderino,
I just noticed you're in Portland! What's the name of your shop?

 

avincar. Like A / V in car, but one word.

avincar.com. Check us out, NW 18th and Lovejoy : )