General FAQ's about the TSX Audio system
11-06-2004, 06:23 PM
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General FAQ's about the TSX Audio system
General FAQ’s about the TSX Audio System
These are intended to answer general questions, and not intended to specifically be a how-to guide.
1)What comes factory in the TSX?
An Alpine-made navigation or Pioneer-made non-navigation head unit with AM, FM, and a 6-disc CD changer that won’t play MP3s. A Pioneer-made 4-channel in, 6-channel out amp the size of a paperback, with electronic xover built in. Pioneer-made speakers are two tweets, four mids, and two woofers.
2) What should we know about the Head Unit?
One of the few options for the TSX is Navigation. Whether or not you have navigation dictates which head unit you have (the navigation voice comes through the speakers). The rest of the system is shared by both platforms. In my experience, the OE HU is high-quality and can yield great hi-fi sound with an upgraded amp/speaker installation.
Both HU’s have an input for an optional Sony-made 10-disc changer. Why, we don’t know, but you can add a Blitzsafe, Soundgate SHOND, or other adapter to add MP3 player or Sat Radio direct input (2005 comes with XM Radio stock). Please see FAQ for a thread on this. Icelink also has an iPod adapter for audio, charging, and control through the steering wheel.
The antenna has an online booster in the rear window. Metallic tint there can hose your FM reception, and so can many Class D amps in the trunk (Hifonics, etc., have issues, but JL seems OK as far as I can tell).
The 2004 options were add-on XM radio (an Alpine debadged unit with an FM modulator), MP3-capable single-disc CD player (displaced the pocket, but not FM modulated, used the AUX input), and the I-VES DVD player-monitor, which is also FM modulated.
The 2005 has XM built-in stock.
If you have a non-navi system, forget about adding OE navi, and just trade yours in. Not worth it at all.
If you want to add an aftermarket HU, you can do so where the pocket is if you want. Some have installed folding-screen units – see their pics in Audio. The Pioneer AVIC-N1 has some fans.
3) What about the Amplifier?
The HU has two full-range preamp outputs to the OE amp, which is almost directly under the NOT AN ASHTRAY. The amp generates F mids and highs to the dash tweet and the F door mid, R mids and highs to the R door mid, and constant, non-fading bass to the 6x9 woofers in the R deck. The amp is the size of a paperback book, uses IC’s inside, and is NOT powerful.
There seems to be a very clean signal to the amp. While there are no RCA connections, this output has the same type voltage and signal as an aftermarket non-4V HU (single-ended, not differential like Bose systems, etc.). You can cut the wires and splice an RCA in with no ill effects. At this writing no amp adapter is available on the aftermarket (I’m working on it : )
Engine noise has been observed by some when the F gains are raised – adding a high-end line driver and lowering the F gains seems to take care of this if it is an issue (my system has the F gains at minimum and I have clean loud sound at 40, and feel no need for more volume). To avoid engine noise, avoid the Airbag ECU under the HU and forward of the OE amp – it’s a known EMI generator. Placing a GLI in that area adds noise.
The same "remote" wire from the OE HU turns on the OE speaker amp and powers the rear window FM amp. It can power both of these and an aftermarket amp with no problem.
4) What Speakers are stock?
Dash: 1” soft-dome tweeter. Crossover point unknown. Connects directly to the OE amp with its own pair of wires with no crossover. Either the OE amp has an active tweeter xover, or more likely it is paralleled with the F door speakers and has a passive crossover in the amp.
Due to how the grille is attached to the speaker, it is very difficult to use the OE grill for the tweeter. You will probably end up with the new tweeter in place of the OE grill. This often looks a bit darker and glossier – FYI. You could also wrap the new tweeter in matching grill cloth, which I keep meaning to do… You have no depth limits, but it is hard to get to from below – above only. If you use separates up front, you have to rewire a bit to use the aftermarket speakers’ crossover on the tweeter and F mid.
F door: 6-1/2 midrange in a special bracket which snaps in. Most 6.5’s will fit with the right spacer (please see my thread on spacer construction, I feel it’s critical for F sound quality). The F speakers are injection-molded graphite cones and cheap treated cloth surrounds. They use neo magnets and are very shallow. Deeper 6.5s will hit the side-intrusion bar directly behind the speaker magnet area, and their tops could hit the window, I think. This speaker seems to receive full range from the OE amp, no high-frequency cutoff, so you can replace this speaker with a “full-range” coaxial-type speaker. I posted pics to Audio.
R door: Same as front door with no tweeter. Someone else posted pics of R doors. I did not do them in our car.
Rear deck: 6x9 woofer with injection-molded graphite cone, cheap cloth surround. Cone will last forever, surround may lat a year, and will change stiffness fast. Speaker is easily replaced – I used the woofer from an MB Quart RCE 269 kit, and those have some depth. I had to trim the oval tab on the underside of the grill – the front ring of the MB Quart is thicker than stock, and so is any decent speaker, I think. The trunk spring torsion bars are near the magnets, so really obnoxiously large 6x9’s could be problematic.
When replacing any speaker but the tweeters, and using OE wiring, I would use the Honda speaker wire adapter available from Autotoys. The wires are really short, and it helps.
5) What if I want to add a sub?
This has been done many times. Use the speaker level in on the aftermarket sub amp, or get a LOC, and tap the 6x9 wires in the trunk. I suspect that this doesn’t have perfect response, as I suspect the amp of compressing at max volumes, but it works OK.
6) What if I want to replace just the speakers?
This has been done too, but you’re prevented from using better speakers due to the amp not powering them well. Better speakers usually use heavier materials that are harder to move, and more complicated crossover filters with insertion power loss, so their overall efficiency is down. You may get a louder system. If you are seeking better fidelity, IMO, you need to replace the amp.
7) What if I want a new amp and OE speakers?
When the OE speakers blow up, buy some good ones.
8) I want a high-fidelity system with no sub. Can I do it?
Yes… See vitocorleone, for one. I would use the MB Quart 6x9 woofer and a good set of F separates, and a 4-channel amp.
9) I want 2-way or 3-way 6x9’s in the rear. Will you tell me which ones to use?
No, but I’ll spend too much time trying to convince you that rear full-range 6x9’s bite it, and then you won’t believe me and you’ll buy them anyway.
10) Where will an amp fit?
The only two amps known to go under the passenger seat of a 2004 are the JL Audio 300/4 and the Audison SRX4. Actually, I haven’t done the SRX4, but by the measurements on the Italian site (the US site has none) it ought to go. The JL required 6 washers to shim up the rear seat mount 3mm, and the removal of a heater duct, but it fit with no permanent mods (other than trimming the nipple off of a rubber floor plug underneath it). DO NOT START THE CAR OR TURN IT ON WITH THE PASS SEAT UNPLUGGED. You will get an airbag warning light.
The 2005 has a power passenger front seat, so no go. Solamente trunkola.
Some people have made brackets under the rear deck and suspended the amp there.
11) Which LOC should I use?
NONE. The TSX does not need an LOC of any kind unless the R 6x9 wires are being used for a sub. You may want to use a line driver or a part (EQ, Xover) with a line driver in it. This has been proven repeatedly.
These are intended to answer general questions, and not intended to specifically be a how-to guide.
1)What comes factory in the TSX?
An Alpine-made navigation or Pioneer-made non-navigation head unit with AM, FM, and a 6-disc CD changer that won’t play MP3s. A Pioneer-made 4-channel in, 6-channel out amp the size of a paperback, with electronic xover built in. Pioneer-made speakers are two tweets, four mids, and two woofers.
2) What should we know about the Head Unit?
One of the few options for the TSX is Navigation. Whether or not you have navigation dictates which head unit you have (the navigation voice comes through the speakers). The rest of the system is shared by both platforms. In my experience, the OE HU is high-quality and can yield great hi-fi sound with an upgraded amp/speaker installation.
Both HU’s have an input for an optional Sony-made 10-disc changer. Why, we don’t know, but you can add a Blitzsafe, Soundgate SHOND, or other adapter to add MP3 player or Sat Radio direct input (2005 comes with XM Radio stock). Please see FAQ for a thread on this. Icelink also has an iPod adapter for audio, charging, and control through the steering wheel.
The antenna has an online booster in the rear window. Metallic tint there can hose your FM reception, and so can many Class D amps in the trunk (Hifonics, etc., have issues, but JL seems OK as far as I can tell).
The 2004 options were add-on XM radio (an Alpine debadged unit with an FM modulator), MP3-capable single-disc CD player (displaced the pocket, but not FM modulated, used the AUX input), and the I-VES DVD player-monitor, which is also FM modulated.
The 2005 has XM built-in stock.
If you have a non-navi system, forget about adding OE navi, and just trade yours in. Not worth it at all.
If you want to add an aftermarket HU, you can do so where the pocket is if you want. Some have installed folding-screen units – see their pics in Audio. The Pioneer AVIC-N1 has some fans.
3) What about the Amplifier?
The HU has two full-range preamp outputs to the OE amp, which is almost directly under the NOT AN ASHTRAY. The amp generates F mids and highs to the dash tweet and the F door mid, R mids and highs to the R door mid, and constant, non-fading bass to the 6x9 woofers in the R deck. The amp is the size of a paperback book, uses IC’s inside, and is NOT powerful.
There seems to be a very clean signal to the amp. While there are no RCA connections, this output has the same type voltage and signal as an aftermarket non-4V HU (single-ended, not differential like Bose systems, etc.). You can cut the wires and splice an RCA in with no ill effects. At this writing no amp adapter is available on the aftermarket (I’m working on it : )
Engine noise has been observed by some when the F gains are raised – adding a high-end line driver and lowering the F gains seems to take care of this if it is an issue (my system has the F gains at minimum and I have clean loud sound at 40, and feel no need for more volume). To avoid engine noise, avoid the Airbag ECU under the HU and forward of the OE amp – it’s a known EMI generator. Placing a GLI in that area adds noise.
The same "remote" wire from the OE HU turns on the OE speaker amp and powers the rear window FM amp. It can power both of these and an aftermarket amp with no problem.
4) What Speakers are stock?
Dash: 1” soft-dome tweeter. Crossover point unknown. Connects directly to the OE amp with its own pair of wires with no crossover. Either the OE amp has an active tweeter xover, or more likely it is paralleled with the F door speakers and has a passive crossover in the amp.
Due to how the grille is attached to the speaker, it is very difficult to use the OE grill for the tweeter. You will probably end up with the new tweeter in place of the OE grill. This often looks a bit darker and glossier – FYI. You could also wrap the new tweeter in matching grill cloth, which I keep meaning to do… You have no depth limits, but it is hard to get to from below – above only. If you use separates up front, you have to rewire a bit to use the aftermarket speakers’ crossover on the tweeter and F mid.
F door: 6-1/2 midrange in a special bracket which snaps in. Most 6.5’s will fit with the right spacer (please see my thread on spacer construction, I feel it’s critical for F sound quality). The F speakers are injection-molded graphite cones and cheap treated cloth surrounds. They use neo magnets and are very shallow. Deeper 6.5s will hit the side-intrusion bar directly behind the speaker magnet area, and their tops could hit the window, I think. This speaker seems to receive full range from the OE amp, no high-frequency cutoff, so you can replace this speaker with a “full-range” coaxial-type speaker. I posted pics to Audio.
R door: Same as front door with no tweeter. Someone else posted pics of R doors. I did not do them in our car.
Rear deck: 6x9 woofer with injection-molded graphite cone, cheap cloth surround. Cone will last forever, surround may lat a year, and will change stiffness fast. Speaker is easily replaced – I used the woofer from an MB Quart RCE 269 kit, and those have some depth. I had to trim the oval tab on the underside of the grill – the front ring of the MB Quart is thicker than stock, and so is any decent speaker, I think. The trunk spring torsion bars are near the magnets, so really obnoxiously large 6x9’s could be problematic.
When replacing any speaker but the tweeters, and using OE wiring, I would use the Honda speaker wire adapter available from Autotoys. The wires are really short, and it helps.
5) What if I want to add a sub?
This has been done many times. Use the speaker level in on the aftermarket sub amp, or get a LOC, and tap the 6x9 wires in the trunk. I suspect that this doesn’t have perfect response, as I suspect the amp of compressing at max volumes, but it works OK.
6) What if I want to replace just the speakers?
This has been done too, but you’re prevented from using better speakers due to the amp not powering them well. Better speakers usually use heavier materials that are harder to move, and more complicated crossover filters with insertion power loss, so their overall efficiency is down. You may get a louder system. If you are seeking better fidelity, IMO, you need to replace the amp.
7) What if I want a new amp and OE speakers?
When the OE speakers blow up, buy some good ones.
8) I want a high-fidelity system with no sub. Can I do it?
Yes… See vitocorleone, for one. I would use the MB Quart 6x9 woofer and a good set of F separates, and a 4-channel amp.
9) I want 2-way or 3-way 6x9’s in the rear. Will you tell me which ones to use?
No, but I’ll spend too much time trying to convince you that rear full-range 6x9’s bite it, and then you won’t believe me and you’ll buy them anyway.
10) Where will an amp fit?
The only two amps known to go under the passenger seat of a 2004 are the JL Audio 300/4 and the Audison SRX4. Actually, I haven’t done the SRX4, but by the measurements on the Italian site (the US site has none) it ought to go. The JL required 6 washers to shim up the rear seat mount 3mm, and the removal of a heater duct, but it fit with no permanent mods (other than trimming the nipple off of a rubber floor plug underneath it). DO NOT START THE CAR OR TURN IT ON WITH THE PASS SEAT UNPLUGGED. You will get an airbag warning light.
The 2005 has a power passenger front seat, so no go. Solamente trunkola.
Some people have made brackets under the rear deck and suspended the amp there.
11) Which LOC should I use?
NONE. The TSX does not need an LOC of any kind unless the R 6x9 wires are being used for a sub. You may want to use a line driver or a part (EQ, Xover) with a line driver in it. This has been proven repeatedly.
11-06-2004, 06:59 PM
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Go Giants
A+ Stuff....Thanks.
11-07-2004, 11:19 PM
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I should have pointed out the following:
The F and R door 6.5's which snap in, require screw holes in the metal to replace.
The 6x9's do not snap in, they screw in with factory sheet-metal scews with hex heads, but these rear screws can strip easily.
The FM booster is not in the R window, the antenna is - the booster is in the C pillar. Sloppy writing.
The F and R door 6.5's which snap in, require screw holes in the metal to replace.
The 6x9's do not snap in, they screw in with factory sheet-metal scews with hex heads, but these rear screws can strip easily.
The FM booster is not in the R window, the antenna is - the booster is in the C pillar. Sloppy writing.
11-07-2004, 11:35 PM
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My FM reception sucks, but I'm quite sure it was awful before I had the JL amp installed. I noticed an RPM type noise on AM stations-only. It's very faint, yet always present.
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11-08-2004, 01:19 PM
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Great STuff Eld! Thanks for taking the time to write all this crap...up!
Now...that I don't have to remember all of this stuff, I will have more room in my brain for other info!
Now...that I don't have to remember all of this stuff, I will have more room in my brain for other info!
Nicely done, eld.
11-09-2004, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by nshom
Eld -
Great writeup.
One question, if you mount the amp under the passenger seat what do you mount/bolt the amp to?
Thanks.
Great writeup.
One question, if you mount the amp under the passenger seat what do you mount/bolt the amp to?
Thanks.
I can't remember (he said sheepishly...) I think I used short (1/2"?) screws and screwed it to the hard plastic backing of the carpet, but I am not sure. I will be in there again soon (installing my new speaker samples for evaluation) and I will check and let you know. I am very sure I did NOT screw through the floorboard, though...
11-09-2004, 11:57 AM
#12
Great info! Just to consolidate what I did into this thread because elduderino mentioned it in his post:
I searched the forum, did my online research, and then asked questions on this most helpful board. Elduderino had provided an excellent write up of his choice of components and the installation (I knew I'd be paying a pro to install). Though I wavered a few times, ultimately I ended up travelling the same route as he, and I haven't looked back ever since:
Initial Install (Bellevue WA Magnolia A/V)
* Front components: Boston Acoustics Rally 6.5's with tweets in OE locations (for now, might get them switched to the sails) with no attenuation because I like "crisp", and the stock HU needs help in that area. I had had Boston's in my previous car and loved them.
* Front doors: added Dynamat
* Rear door: stock, still connected to stock amp, wired to the Front channel of HU along with Front components
* Rear panel: MB Quart RCE269's (minus the tweets) with filter on amp set at ~100Hz, wired to the Rear channel of HU
* Trunk: custom mount beheind wheel well opposite gas tank and covered 60x4 amp with fan (cover has grill in front of fan). Did not want to modify seat and did not want to block the vent under the seat since I'll eventually have regular rear seat passengers
Problems: defective front speaker cone, electronic music was causing the 6x9's to thrash pretty hardcore because there's no subsonic on the amp, alternator whine was exacerbated (heard some before the upgrade), lacked midrange punch on natural kick drums
Additional Install Work (same person, same location)
* Change wiring so that Front is Front on the HU and all rear speakers are Rear on the HU (will eventually have a family and want to be able to fade all audio to front so as to not over-bass the rear passengers)
* Replace front components with MB Quart RCE 216's in stock locations
* Add used Audiocontrol 2XS to filter out the low freq's. Unfortunately, it uses chips, not a dial, and the only one laying around was the 50Hz (would like to try a 40Hz some day if one exists). Regardless, it truly transformed the sound and the 6x9's sound amazing and allowed for a smoother sound across all frequencys (no longer lacked midrange punch)
Problems: didn't have time to address the slight alternator noise, 6x9's sounded a little too "thumpy" after a lot more listening of various music
My fixes: 1) lower the gain on the front channel to further reduce noise, fade to front +1 to compensate. 2) lower the upper frequency cut off from 100 to 90 to reduce thumpiness and slightly boost gain to compensate for the front-ward tilt of +1. Rear speakers still working nicely as fill, soundstage still forward.
Remaining issues:
* Taking a break from stereo installation :-)
* Slight alternator noise - will take back to installer
* Rear deck rattles like an SOB sometimes with all that bass from the 6x9's, so will have to pay for ~4 hours of labor to reinforce it at some point (plus possibly adding dynamat and/or some foam around the speakers, etc.)
* Want to add Dynamat to the rear doors, if only beacuse it makes them sound German when closing them! Heh.
I searched the forum, did my online research, and then asked questions on this most helpful board. Elduderino had provided an excellent write up of his choice of components and the installation (I knew I'd be paying a pro to install). Though I wavered a few times, ultimately I ended up travelling the same route as he, and I haven't looked back ever since:
Initial Install (Bellevue WA Magnolia A/V)
* Front components: Boston Acoustics Rally 6.5's with tweets in OE locations (for now, might get them switched to the sails) with no attenuation because I like "crisp", and the stock HU needs help in that area. I had had Boston's in my previous car and loved them.
* Front doors: added Dynamat
* Rear door: stock, still connected to stock amp, wired to the Front channel of HU along with Front components
* Rear panel: MB Quart RCE269's (minus the tweets) with filter on amp set at ~100Hz, wired to the Rear channel of HU
* Trunk: custom mount beheind wheel well opposite gas tank and covered 60x4 amp with fan (cover has grill in front of fan). Did not want to modify seat and did not want to block the vent under the seat since I'll eventually have regular rear seat passengers
Problems: defective front speaker cone, electronic music was causing the 6x9's to thrash pretty hardcore because there's no subsonic on the amp, alternator whine was exacerbated (heard some before the upgrade), lacked midrange punch on natural kick drums
Additional Install Work (same person, same location)
* Change wiring so that Front is Front on the HU and all rear speakers are Rear on the HU (will eventually have a family and want to be able to fade all audio to front so as to not over-bass the rear passengers)
* Replace front components with MB Quart RCE 216's in stock locations
* Add used Audiocontrol 2XS to filter out the low freq's. Unfortunately, it uses chips, not a dial, and the only one laying around was the 50Hz (would like to try a 40Hz some day if one exists). Regardless, it truly transformed the sound and the 6x9's sound amazing and allowed for a smoother sound across all frequencys (no longer lacked midrange punch)
Problems: didn't have time to address the slight alternator noise, 6x9's sounded a little too "thumpy" after a lot more listening of various music
My fixes: 1) lower the gain on the front channel to further reduce noise, fade to front +1 to compensate. 2) lower the upper frequency cut off from 100 to 90 to reduce thumpiness and slightly boost gain to compensate for the front-ward tilt of +1. Rear speakers still working nicely as fill, soundstage still forward.
Remaining issues:
* Taking a break from stereo installation :-)
* Slight alternator noise - will take back to installer
* Rear deck rattles like an SOB sometimes with all that bass from the 6x9's, so will have to pay for ~4 hours of labor to reinforce it at some point (plus possibly adding dynamat and/or some foam around the speakers, etc.)
* Want to add Dynamat to the rear doors, if only beacuse it makes them sound German when closing them! Heh.
11-09-2004, 12:35 PM
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Nice!
There is a guy on eBay who sells chips for any freq you want. The HQ for AC is in Mount Vernon, you could call them and go get one, mebbe.
The 2xs has a mega line driver in it. You ought to be able to drop your amp gain to min and use the OP level on the 2xs only. I think that should handle your alternator whine.
This may sound silly, but is there any noise with the system off? I ask for two reasons: 1) The inductors in the speaker-level crossover boxes can pick up alt whine and make the tweeter play it in such cases. The fix is relocation of the boxes.
Also, I hear the VTEC noise and it sounds a bit whiny and can sound like a little whine. Mkae sure it sounds worse with hi-beams and R defroster on. That's alt whine, sho nuff.
There is a guy on eBay who sells chips for any freq you want. The HQ for AC is in Mount Vernon, you could call them and go get one, mebbe.
The 2xs has a mega line driver in it. You ought to be able to drop your amp gain to min and use the OP level on the 2xs only. I think that should handle your alternator whine.
This may sound silly, but is there any noise with the system off? I ask for two reasons: 1) The inductors in the speaker-level crossover boxes can pick up alt whine and make the tweeter play it in such cases. The fix is relocation of the boxes.
Also, I hear the VTEC noise and it sounds a bit whiny and can sound like a little whine. Mkae sure it sounds worse with hi-beams and R defroster on. That's alt whine, sho nuff.
11-10-2004, 10:12 PM
#14
Polar Chicken
Houdy
Originally Posted by vitocorleone
Great info! Just to consolidate what I did into this thread because elduderino mentioned it in his post:
I searched the forum, did my online research, and then asked questions on this most helpful board. Elduderino had provided an excellent write up of his choice of components and the installation (I knew I'd be paying a pro to install). Though I wavered a few times, ultimately I ended up travelling the same route as he, and I haven't looked back ever since:
Initial Install (Bellevue WA Magnolia A/V)
* Front components: Boston Acoustics Rally 6.5's with tweets in OE locations (for now, might get them switched to the sails) with no attenuation because I like "crisp", and the stock HU needs help in that area. I had had Boston's in my previous car and loved them.
* Front doors: added Dynamat
* Rear door: stock, still connected to stock amp, wired to the Front channel of HU along with Front components
* Rear panel: MB Quart RCE269's (minus the tweets) with filter on amp set at ~100Hz, wired to the Rear channel of HU
* Trunk: custom mount beheind wheel well opposite gas tank and covered 60x4 amp with fan (cover has grill in front of fan). Did not want to modify seat and did not want to block the vent under the seat since I'll eventually have regular rear seat passengers
Problems: defective front speaker cone, electronic music was causing the 6x9's to thrash pretty hardcore because there's no subsonic on the amp, alternator whine was exacerbated (heard some before the upgrade), lacked midrange punch on natural kick drums
Additional Install Work (same person, same location)
* Change wiring so that Front is Front on the HU and all rear speakers are Rear on the HU (will eventually have a family and want to be able to fade all audio to front so as to not over-bass the rear passengers)
* Replace front components with MB Quart RCE 216's in stock locations
* Add used Audiocontrol 2XS to filter out the low freq's. Unfortunately, it uses chips, not a dial, and the only one laying around was the 50Hz (would like to try a 40Hz some day if one exists). Regardless, it truly transformed the sound and the 6x9's sound amazing and allowed for a smoother sound across all frequencys (no longer lacked midrange punch)
Problems: didn't have time to address the slight alternator noise, 6x9's sounded a little too "thumpy" after a lot more listening of various music
My fixes: 1) lower the gain on the front channel to further reduce noise, fade to front +1 to compensate. 2) lower the upper frequency cut off from 100 to 90 to reduce thumpiness and slightly boost gain to compensate for the front-ward tilt of +1. Rear speakers still working nicely as fill, soundstage still forward.
Remaining issues:
* Taking a break from stereo installation :-)
* Slight alternator noise - will take back to installer
* Rear deck rattles like an SOB sometimes with all that bass from the 6x9's, so will have to pay for ~4 hours of labor to reinforce it at some point (plus possibly adding dynamat and/or some foam around the speakers, etc.)
* Want to add Dynamat to the rear doors, if only beacuse it makes them sound German when closing them! Heh.
I searched the forum, did my online research, and then asked questions on this most helpful board. Elduderino had provided an excellent write up of his choice of components and the installation (I knew I'd be paying a pro to install). Though I wavered a few times, ultimately I ended up travelling the same route as he, and I haven't looked back ever since:
Initial Install (Bellevue WA Magnolia A/V)
* Front components: Boston Acoustics Rally 6.5's with tweets in OE locations (for now, might get them switched to the sails) with no attenuation because I like "crisp", and the stock HU needs help in that area. I had had Boston's in my previous car and loved them.
* Front doors: added Dynamat
* Rear door: stock, still connected to stock amp, wired to the Front channel of HU along with Front components
* Rear panel: MB Quart RCE269's (minus the tweets) with filter on amp set at ~100Hz, wired to the Rear channel of HU
* Trunk: custom mount beheind wheel well opposite gas tank and covered 60x4 amp with fan (cover has grill in front of fan). Did not want to modify seat and did not want to block the vent under the seat since I'll eventually have regular rear seat passengers
Problems: defective front speaker cone, electronic music was causing the 6x9's to thrash pretty hardcore because there's no subsonic on the amp, alternator whine was exacerbated (heard some before the upgrade), lacked midrange punch on natural kick drums
Additional Install Work (same person, same location)
* Change wiring so that Front is Front on the HU and all rear speakers are Rear on the HU (will eventually have a family and want to be able to fade all audio to front so as to not over-bass the rear passengers)
* Replace front components with MB Quart RCE 216's in stock locations
* Add used Audiocontrol 2XS to filter out the low freq's. Unfortunately, it uses chips, not a dial, and the only one laying around was the 50Hz (would like to try a 40Hz some day if one exists). Regardless, it truly transformed the sound and the 6x9's sound amazing and allowed for a smoother sound across all frequencys (no longer lacked midrange punch)
Problems: didn't have time to address the slight alternator noise, 6x9's sounded a little too "thumpy" after a lot more listening of various music
My fixes: 1) lower the gain on the front channel to further reduce noise, fade to front +1 to compensate. 2) lower the upper frequency cut off from 100 to 90 to reduce thumpiness and slightly boost gain to compensate for the front-ward tilt of +1. Rear speakers still working nicely as fill, soundstage still forward.
Remaining issues:
* Taking a break from stereo installation :-)
* Slight alternator noise - will take back to installer
* Rear deck rattles like an SOB sometimes with all that bass from the 6x9's, so will have to pay for ~4 hours of labor to reinforce it at some point (plus possibly adding dynamat and/or some foam around the speakers, etc.)
* Want to add Dynamat to the rear doors, if only beacuse it makes them sound German when closing them! Heh.
I would be intrested in speaking with you more on your install. I am in the upgrade stage as well. Currently I have installed Diamond Audio componits in the front and matching 6x9's in the rear, I am running of the factory HU to a 5 channel amp in the trunk but will shortly be going aftermarket HU and a better amp as the radio reception in the tsx is terrible and I am getting no love from the dealer. I bought all my stuff at Mag as well.
Also:
I orded 70sqft of b-quiet brown bread and did all 4 doors last weekend and will be doing my entire floor in the next two weeks. If you are intrested in doing a project I have two other people ordering in bulk and this stuff is about 2/3's less than dynomat. I have dynomat in my honda and I think b-quiet is better. We plan on ordering 2 or 3 rolls depending on how many peeps buy in.
To the amp experts out there, what are your thoughs on this amp:
Audiobahn A4125HCT Multi-Channel Amplifier
http://www.thezeb.com/p-Audiobahn-A4...ier-100126.htm
11-11-2004, 09:45 AM
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just as a heads up, if you want to put new speakers in the front doors, the alpine sps171a comes with a honda adaptor that clips to the door just like the factory speaker, then it holds a 6.5 speaker....if you are friendly w/ your local alpine dealer, maybe he has kept these brackets when installing the speakers in other cars......i have a couple sets of them i am holding till i get my 05 tsx.....
11-14-2004, 11:51 AM
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Here is a link to an early thread with factory electrical diagram scans and drawings:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=&threadid=496
Kudos to George!
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=&threadid=496
Kudos to George!
08-08-2005, 11:00 PM
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Professional Audio Shop for Upgrade?
I recently got a TSX 05 with navigation system. I'm planning on upgrading the whole audio system (receiver, speakers, etc.). However, since after-market decks do not fit the dashboard without a custom installation I'm looking for professional help for installing such a system. Do any of you know guys know of a good audio shop near the Texas area? I'll appreciate any suggestions.
08-09-2005, 11:39 PM
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Near Parmer Lane and Mopac (loop 1). I checked Custom Sounds website and they have a shop at 13026 Research Blvd which is not far from my place. Do you know the price range they might charge for such custom installations? Basically I would like to replace the HU and the speakers, but from other threads I read I guess the amp would have to be replace too.
08-10-2005, 01:07 AM
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I don't know what they would charge. I would contact them and ask. Print out the article and if they aren't familiar with the car at that site send them to the URL.
You only have to replac the amp if you want.... and how are you replacing the TSX HU again?
Maybe you can dial the Texas resulation back to a city?
You only have to replac the amp if you want.... and how are you replacing the TSX HU again?
Maybe you can dial the Texas resulation back to a city?
08-10-2005, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by elduderino
I don't know what they would charge. I would contact them and ask. Print out the article and if they aren't familiar with the car at that site send them to the URL.
You only have to replac the amp if you want.... and how are you replacing the TSX HU again?
Maybe you can dial the Texas resulation back to a city?
You only have to replac the amp if you want.... and how are you replacing the TSX HU again?
Maybe you can dial the Texas resulation back to a city?
Well.....that's the whole point of trying to get professional help. I don't want to have 2 HUs in my car. Maybe somehow I can find a place with a custom install kit (i.e. Crutchfield does not have one). If it's not possible then I'll stick with the OEM and just replace the speakers.
08-11-2005, 10:50 AM
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As soon as I get a look at an 06 I will see about adding to it.
I should also add that the TSX HU - nav and non-nav - have an "auto-loudness" feature that dips the mids about 5dB at volumes below 20. Above 20 the entire response is flat.
I should also add that the TSX HU - nav and non-nav - have an "auto-loudness" feature that dips the mids about 5dB at volumes below 20. Above 20 the entire response is flat.
08-11-2005, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by elduderino
As soon as I get a look at an 06 I will see about adding to it.
I should also add that the TSX HU - nav and non-nav - have an "auto-loudness" feature that dips the mids about 5dB at volumes below 20. Above 20 the entire response is flat.
I should also add that the TSX HU - nav and non-nav - have an "auto-loudness" feature that dips the mids about 5dB at volumes below 20. Above 20 the entire response is flat.
I can get a decent sound below 20, but above 20 it gets harsh. If I boost the bass to get a more balanced sound above 20, when I lower the volume, it gets too boomy.
Just who's hearing did they base this "auto loudness" curve on anyway?
To my ears, they shouldn't be changing the band levels at all no matter what the volume is.The eq. change is not as bad as what GM did in my wife's old '97 Malibu, but it's still not welcome.
08-11-2005, 04:25 PM
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Read this about how the human ear hears.
http://www.webervst.com/fm.htm
(I bet your work this way too). The variation with the TSX HU is far less then the FM curves suggest.
I think the non-linearities of the POS speakers in your car are a far bigger issue than the slight variation in the signal TO the speakers. I'm confident that the speakers are also not only non-linear from octave to octave, but their response varies with volume more than the HU response does.
http://www.webervst.com/fm.htm
(I bet your work this way too). The variation with the TSX HU is far less then the FM curves suggest.
I think the non-linearities of the POS speakers in your car are a far bigger issue than the slight variation in the signal TO the speakers. I'm confident that the speakers are also not only non-linear from octave to octave, but their response varies with volume more than the HU response does.
08-11-2005, 06:02 PM
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Yes, I've seen that curve before.
I figure the speakers are hampering things a bit too. That tonal change shouldn't be noticable if it's done right.
Don't worry, I should be ordering your speakers from you one day. It may not be until early next year given all that's going on right now (let's see... pay for my son's school, new computer, Autocad upgrade, pay for this new TSX...), but I would like something better.
I figure the speakers are hampering things a bit too. That tonal change shouldn't be noticable if it's done right.
Don't worry, I should be ordering your speakers from you one day. It may not be until early next year given all that's going on right now (let's see... pay for my son's school, new computer, Autocad upgrade, pay for this new TSX...), but I would like something better.
12-14-2005, 02:01 AM
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Elduderino,
I am not sure if this is the correct place to ask these questions, but here they are. My friend's 2005 Accord EX seems to have better surround sound feel in his car than my TSX. His bass sounds more punchy and crisp while my TSX bass sounds deeper and more vibrating. If I understand this correctly, the rear 2 speakers above the trunk on his 05 Accord EX has high range signals going through them as well as low range bass. Is that why in his car I can significantly hear the high range from the back and it sounds more surround? Is it possible to do that to our TSX, I'm looking to get a more "surround sound" feel, so will adding high range to the rear 6x9 do the trick? Last question is, you mentioned it's not ideal to have coxial or both high and low onthe 6x9, why is that? Please elaborate if you will
Thanks!
KC
I am not sure if this is the correct place to ask these questions, but here they are. My friend's 2005 Accord EX seems to have better surround sound feel in his car than my TSX. His bass sounds more punchy and crisp while my TSX bass sounds deeper and more vibrating. If I understand this correctly, the rear 2 speakers above the trunk on his 05 Accord EX has high range signals going through them as well as low range bass. Is that why in his car I can significantly hear the high range from the back and it sounds more surround? Is it possible to do that to our TSX, I'm looking to get a more "surround sound" feel, so will adding high range to the rear 6x9 do the trick? Last question is, you mentioned it's not ideal to have coxial or both high and low onthe 6x9, why is that? Please elaborate if you will
Thanks!KC
12-14-2005, 07:09 AM
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The stock speakers are terribly boomy, but you do get a bit used to it. ;-)
Seriously, upgrade the speakers, and you can get bass that plays deeper, but more controlled. I still have to fiddle with the bass control sometimes, but it varies with source material.
It could be as simple as the fact that the TSX speakers are real boomy at higher frequencies, kind of like a "bass control" adjustment. They sure sound loud, but it muddies up the sound a lot more than it should.
I wired the rear door speakers for a surround-sound effect (and mentioned it a couple of months ago in another thread). The affect is fairly subtle and doesn't have much effect with the processed XM signals, but I think I like it for listening to CDs...
These days, most people in car audio try to set up a forward front stage, as if you're sitting at a concert. Too much sound from the rear, high frequencies particularly, and you mess that up.
My opinion is that as long as the high frequencies aren't too loud, you can get away with a bit of "rear fill" to, well, fill out the sound. But often, if you just pop a speaker in somewhere, you'll get full-range and you have to do something extra if you want to fine-tune it.
On the TSX, however, on the 6x9s, you don't get the high frequences. They are rolled off at the amp. So you'll waste your money on the tweeter.
Seriously, upgrade the speakers, and you can get bass that plays deeper, but more controlled. I still have to fiddle with the bass control sometimes, but it varies with source material.
...His bass sounds more punchy and crisp while my TSX bass sounds deeper and more vibrating.
...Is that why in his car I can significantly hear the high range from the back and it sounds more surround? Is it possible to do that to our TSX, I'm looking to get a more "surround sound" feel, so will adding high range to the rear 6x9 do the trick?
Last question is, you mentioned it's not ideal to have coxial or both high and low onthe 6x9, why is that? Please elaborate if you will Thanks!
My opinion is that as long as the high frequencies aren't too loud, you can get away with a bit of "rear fill" to, well, fill out the sound. But often, if you just pop a speaker in somewhere, you'll get full-range and you have to do something extra if you want to fine-tune it.
On the TSX, however, on the 6x9s, you don't get the high frequences. They are rolled off at the amp. So you'll waste your money on the tweeter.
12-14-2005, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by kaikai114
My friend's 2005 Accord EX seems to have better surround sound feel in his car than my TSX. His bass sounds more punchy and crisp while my TSX bass sounds deeper and more vibrating.
Originally Posted by kaikai114
If I understand this correctly, the rear 2 speakers above the trunk on his 05 Accord EX has high range signals going through them as well as low range bass. Is that why in his car I can significantly hear the high range from the back and it sounds more surround?
Originally Posted by kaikai114
Is it possible to do that to our TSX, I'm looking to get a more "surround sound" feel, so will adding high range to the rear 6x9 do the trick?
It's also possible that the Accord speakers are newer. Remember that the TSX 6x9 woofers are pretty flimsy in their suspension.
[QUOTE=kaikai114 I'm looking to get a more "surround sound" feel, so will adding high range to the rear 6x9 do the trick? Last question is, you mentioned it's not ideal to have coxial or both high and low onthe 6x9, why is that? Please elaborate if you will
Thanks![/QUOTE]
vidgamer covered it pretty well, but your surround sound feel might be pleasing (to you) but it is not accurate or "high fidelity". Stereo works differently than that.
I would google the term "car stereo front stage" and read what's on the first hit (our web site) and also look up stereophonic playback on Wikipedia.
12-15-2005, 05:37 PM
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[QUOTE=elduderino]Bass sound quality isn't associated with surround. I'm not sure, but I think you're mixing together two different aspects of the sound.
If what you're asking me is iof the Accord doesn't have subwoofers, I don't know. But I am easily convinced that the Accord doesn't have subwoofers.
The OEM amp filters out the highs. Some board members have rewired the car so that the rear door output goes to the rear deck to create this effect. It's not worth it.
It's also possible that the Accord speakers are newer. Remember that the TSX 6x9 woofers are pretty flimsy in their suspension.
vidgamer covered it pretty well, but your surround sound feel might be pleasing (to you) but it is not accurate or "high fidelity". Stereo works differently than that.
I would google the term "car stereo front stage" and read what's on the first hit (our web site) and also look up stereophonic playback on Wikipedia.
Maybe I'm not as sensitive to sound, but for some reason, I feel Accord's bass is not as strong as our bass, but very very close.
By the way Eldurino, do you still have those rear 6x9 woofers you were selling before that is similar to MB Quartz? If yes, please pm me pricing info, I'm looking to get a set after Xmas. Thanks
KC
If what you're asking me is iof the Accord doesn't have subwoofers, I don't know. But I am easily convinced that the Accord doesn't have subwoofers.
The OEM amp filters out the highs. Some board members have rewired the car so that the rear door output goes to the rear deck to create this effect. It's not worth it.
It's also possible that the Accord speakers are newer. Remember that the TSX 6x9 woofers are pretty flimsy in their suspension.
Originally Posted by kaikai114 I'm looking to get a more "surround sound" feel, so will adding high range to the rear 6x9 do the trick? Last question is, you mentioned it's not ideal to have coxial or both high and low onthe 6x9, why is that? Please elaborate if you will :smile: Thanks!
[/QUOTE
[/QUOTE
vidgamer covered it pretty well, but your surround sound feel might be pleasing (to you) but it is not accurate or "high fidelity". Stereo works differently than that.
I would google the term "car stereo front stage" and read what's on the first hit (our web site) and also look up stereophonic playback on Wikipedia.
Maybe I'm not as sensitive to sound, but for some reason, I feel Accord's bass is not as strong as our bass, but very very close.
By the way Eldurino, do you still have those rear 6x9 woofers you were selling before that is similar to MB Quartz? If yes, please pm me pricing info, I'm looking to get a set after Xmas. Thanks
KC
12-15-2005, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by vidgamer
The stock speakers are terribly boomy, but you do get a bit used to it. ;-)
Seriously, upgrade the speakers, and you can get bass that plays deeper, but more controlled. I still have to fiddle with the bass control sometimes, but it varies with source material.
It could be as simple as the fact that the TSX speakers are real boomy at higher frequencies, kind of like a "bass control" adjustment. They sure sound loud, but it muddies up the sound a lot more than it should.
I wired the rear door speakers for a surround-sound effect (and mentioned it a couple of months ago in another thread). The affect is fairly subtle and doesn't have much effect with the processed XM signals, but I think I like it for listening to CDs...
These days, most people in car audio try to set up a forward front stage, as if you're sitting at a concert. Too much sound from the rear, high frequencies particularly, and you mess that up.
My opinion is that as long as the high frequencies aren't too loud, you can get away with a bit of "rear fill" to, well, fill out the sound. But often, if you just pop a speaker in somewhere, you'll get full-range and you have to do something extra if you want to fine-tune it.
On the TSX, however, on the 6x9s, you don't get the high frequences. They are rolled off at the amp. So you'll waste your money on the tweeter.
Seriously, upgrade the speakers, and you can get bass that plays deeper, but more controlled. I still have to fiddle with the bass control sometimes, but it varies with source material.
It could be as simple as the fact that the TSX speakers are real boomy at higher frequencies, kind of like a "bass control" adjustment. They sure sound loud, but it muddies up the sound a lot more than it should.
I wired the rear door speakers for a surround-sound effect (and mentioned it a couple of months ago in another thread). The affect is fairly subtle and doesn't have much effect with the processed XM signals, but I think I like it for listening to CDs...
These days, most people in car audio try to set up a forward front stage, as if you're sitting at a concert. Too much sound from the rear, high frequencies particularly, and you mess that up.
My opinion is that as long as the high frequencies aren't too loud, you can get away with a bit of "rear fill" to, well, fill out the sound. But often, if you just pop a speaker in somewhere, you'll get full-range and you have to do something extra if you want to fine-tune it.
On the TSX, however, on the 6x9s, you don't get the high frequences. They are rolled off at the amp. So you'll waste your money on the tweeter.
So with the rewire you've getting more high range sounds from the rear? I always have to turn bass down a lil to really hear high range or else it'll be muffled by the heavy bass in the back ...
KC
12-15-2005, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by kaikai114
So with the rewire you've getting more high range sounds from the rear?
In replacing the front tweets, there are plenty of highs up-front, for that forward soundstage. You don't want the rear to detract from that.
The thing is, do you like a bit of sound from the rear, for ambiance? Do you use your surround-sound settings at home, even with music? It may not always be the "correct" way, but it's an interesting effect! Either it grabs you or it doesn't. (And I find that it varies depending upon the source material too.)
So, in doing that hack, I'm not really trying to add any particular frequency range (although a side-effect is that it removes the bass), but just trying to produce the ambiance, like the echoing in an auditorium. Also, the volume of the rear doors is very reduced. So, either the effect is very subtle, or if I fade towards the rear, the bass is too loud (since the 6x9s also increase in volume).
(An aside -- I didn't expect the volume to be so low, but it is probably just as well. Eldude's opinion, as I recall, is to just disconnect the rear door speakers. So, compared with that option, I'll stick to a very subtle surround effect. :-) )
I always have to turn bass down a lil to really hear high range or else it'll be muffled by the heavy bass in the back ...
KC
KC
If you're trying to get more sound out of the rear, particularly highs, I wouldn't bother, unless you are going to make a lot of changes, because the stock system isn't even set up that way.
Or are you saying that even the highs in the front are muffled from the rear bass? I'm confused!
I had an idea....
Say that you were sticking to the stock amp, but wanted yet more bass, after you already replaced the various speakers.... I wonder if you could find some speakers to fit the rear doors that would play pretty low frequencies? Then you could add a filter to roll off the highs so that you don't detract from the front soundstage.... Hmmm.....
I have a lot of crazy audio ideas. ;-)
12-18-2005, 11:16 AM
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great faq. few questions tho..
in my search for new components in the front, i came across a device called cleansweep from jl audio. you mentioned that the stock HU is high quality so would a device like this not be necessary?
regarding the tweeter location.. will i get quality sound if i leave them in the dash with upgraded equipment? i was planning to put the tweets in the sails but would only do that if it's worth the cost of install.
i'm currently leaning toward the jl audio xr650 components. i've noticed the mb quarts and boston acoustics mentioned here. the jl's fit my budget but am i better off with going with something else?
i was really hoping to get away with not getting a separate amp but it seems like that isn't a good idea. should i use the stock amp for the other stock components and just get a 2 channel amp for the fronts or should i replace the stock one with a 4 (or more) channel amp?
TIA.
in my search for new components in the front, i came across a device called cleansweep from jl audio. you mentioned that the stock HU is high quality so would a device like this not be necessary?
regarding the tweeter location.. will i get quality sound if i leave them in the dash with upgraded equipment? i was planning to put the tweets in the sails but would only do that if it's worth the cost of install.
i'm currently leaning toward the jl audio xr650 components. i've noticed the mb quarts and boston acoustics mentioned here. the jl's fit my budget but am i better off with going with something else?
i was really hoping to get away with not getting a separate amp but it seems like that isn't a good idea. should i use the stock amp for the other stock components and just get a 2 channel amp for the fronts or should i replace the stock one with a 4 (or more) channel amp?
TIA.
12-18-2005, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tae
... i came across a device called cleansweep from jl audio. you mentioned that the stock HU is high quality so would a device like this not be necessary?
If you use an amp with balanced-compatible inputs - JL, DLS, Zapco, etc - OR if you use a balanced-compatible GLI or even a ground loop isolator, IF your amp is not compatible with balanced signals - you have no need for a CleanSweep.
This has been a debated topic in the past but now the general consensus is that it's not needed.
Originally Posted by Tae
Regarding the tweeter location.. will i get quality sound if i leave them in the dash with upgraded equipment? i was planning to put the tweets in the sails but would only do that if it's worth the cost of install.
Originally Posted by Tae
i'm currently leaning toward the jl audio xr650 components. i've noticed the mb quarts and boston acoustics mentioned here. the jl's fit my budget but am i better off with going with something else?
Originally Posted by Tae
i was really hoping to get away with not getting a separate amp but it seems like that isn't a good idea. should i use the stock amp for the other stock components and just get a 2 channel amp for the fronts or should i replace the stock one with a 4 (or more) channel amp?
We have a bunch of fiberglass tubs premolded for the TSX, we just need to get into a store where we're not frozen out everytime we try to do glass...
12-18-2005, 02:28 PM
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Has anyone actually attempted to use the Cleansweep in the TSX? There have been a lot of conversations about whether or not it's needed, but no successful/unsuccessful (noise free) attempts that I've noticed. My stereo sounds great but I still have that high pitch noise, and I know the sound should be cleaner.
12-18-2005, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RAOH92
Has anyone actually attempted to use the Cleansweep in the TSX? There have been a lot of conversations about whether or not it's needed, but no successful/unsuccessful (noise free) attempts that I've noticed. My stereo sounds great but I still have that high pitch noise, and I know the sound should be cleaner.
I have a 2004 with NO noise. Zero. None.
I have done three other amp installs for forum members with zero noise. I have read of at least half a dozen forem members who have zero noise.
So I know the posts are out there.
12-18-2005, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RAOH92
Has anyone actually attempted to use the Cleansweep in the TSX? There have been a lot of conversations about whether or not it's needed, but no successful/unsuccessful (noise free) attempts that I've noticed. My stereo sounds great but I still have that high pitch noise, and I know the sound should be cleaner.