I saw this posted on another site and though I would share it here:




I had a sound education this week.

I was all set to buy a TSX until I heard the stereo. All I wanted was for it to sound at least as good as the JBL system in the '99 Solara I'm selling. I naively assumed it would considering the TSX is a brand new model. It didn't. So, I spent the last week checking out the TSX's competition , specifically their available factory stereos.

Here's how I would rank the cars I tested:

1) Saab 9-3 (Harmon Kardon sound). This baby had a 13 speaker Harmon Kardon system. It rocked. Has a European sound (clear, accurate sound) versus the American sound of Bose (warm, softer sound). Tight bass from the subwoofer, crisp highs, beautiful midrange and accurate sound.

2) BMW 3 series (Harmon Kardon sound). The 3 series has Harmon Kardon sound also. It sounded great though not quite as powerful as the Saab.

3) Infiniti G35 (Bose sound). That great Bose sound. Crisp, deep, accurate sound.

4) Audi A4 (Bose sound). Again, that great Bose sound though not quite as impressive as the G35 system.

5) Toyota Solara (JBL sound). The 2004 Solara is not out yet so I listened to the system in a '03 Solara. Impressive sound for the money. It has a softer sound than Bose and Harmon Kardon though just as accurate.

6) Lexus IS 300 (Pioneer sound). Clearly not as good sounding as the audiophile speaker factory systems, though still very good compared to most cars out there. I don't know why Lexus didn't make Mark Levinson sound an option in this car like all it's other models. It sounds better than the TSX system.

7) Acura TSX (Pioneer sound). Clearly not as good as the competition. For a clean sheet 2004 model, the TSX stereo should sound much, much better.


That was really educational. Comparing the systems in the above cars was so much interesting, I wondered how the best factory systems sound. Those would be systems in top line luxury cars.
How much better do the stereo's in a $60,000 car sound compared to a $30,000 car? So I put on a suit, collected my favorite CDs, borrowed my dad's RL and went to luxury car dealers for some heavy duty listening.

All the systems below sounded much better than the systems in the $30,000 segment. I guess you get what you pay for. Here's how I would rate the top of the line factory systems:


1) Mark Levinson (Lexus). The best, most amazing sound I have ever heard. The Mark Levinson sound will bring tears to your eyes. It was like being in the recording studio. No suprise since Mark Levinson's home systems cost over $100,000. I think this system sounds better than most professional aftermarket systems.

2) Dynaudio (Volvo). Dynaudio is a high end Danish speaker manufacturer. Their top of the line home speakers cost $90,000. This system sounds fantastic. Not quite as up to Mark Levinson, but considering the price of the Volvo S80 and S60, a real bargain.

3) Harmon Kardon (BMW 745Li). This is Harmon Kardon's special Logic 10 system for the new 7 series. A very clean, crisp, clear sounding system that values accuracy of sound reproduction over warmth.

4) Alpine (Jaguar). The new XJ has a really great sounding system though it's not as natural as the Mark Levinson and Dynaudio systems. Clear, powerful sound.

5) Bose ('04 Audi A8L). Bose makes systems for many luxury manufacturers including Infiniti, Mercedes, Cadillac, Acura and Audi. I wasn't sure which Bose system to test so I decided to listen to the system in the newest luxury car. That would be the '04 A8L introduced this summer. I figured it must have the latest Bose system. This system sounds warm, rich, powerful and high-end.

6) Nakamichi ('98 Lexus LS400). I was curious to see how the company that started factory high end audiophile sound in a car (in partnership with Lexus back in 1990) fared. This system provides concert hall sound though not quite up to the latest, best high end systems. Still, considering this system was designed for the 1995 LS400 it's fantastic. I would put it in the same general league as the Harmon Kardon, Bose and Alpine, though Mark Levinson and Dynaudio are a step above.


When I get into something I go all out. That was a really interesting learning experience I had, and it all started because the TSX stereo doesn't sound as good as my Solara stereo. Now what am I going to do about my TSX purchase? Do I get a TSX and gut the amp and speakers, and put in new ones? Thats an iffy proposition because it still may not make as a big difference as I'd like for the money I'll have to put in. Or, for $30,000 I could get a pre-owned Lexus SC400 with Nakamichi sound that will sound way better than any new $30,000 car's system. Decisions, decisions.

 

If you search the old forum people listed best settings for TSX system and responses were taht it improve dramitically after. Also changing speakers is cheap adn easy adn can make a hug difference as well. I got Polk Audio for my car adn even w/ stock everythign it wounds great now

 

I'd rather spend the money on a "premium" audio system on picking my own components that will blow away any factory audio system. Most, if not all, factory audio systems are over rated, esp the Bose. My dad has the Mark Levinson in his Lexus and it's really not that great. Certainly not better than my car, and for the price premium, certainly not worth it. Bose, imo, is the biggest ripoff. I mean if you like mud, then cheers.

-vasu

 

Hey vasu what do you have in your car. I thought you were the guru of car washing but if you know about car stero stuff to then help me out. I wanted to know what components are easy to change and if you could do a little tutorial on it. I know this takes time but your the best so.

I posted this in the amps and subs thread if you have any insite that would be great.
http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/show...&threadid=1076

 

To some extent, sound quality is personal preference but my experience of BMW HK systems (including my own car, and a couple of days recently where I had a 330Ci as a loaner) is that the HK systems are awful. As a general rule I would never pay for a factory "premium" system. The best stock stereo I've ever heard was the Jeep/Infinity system (with speakers in the rear roof) in my ex Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited.

C.

 

Wouldn't the individual cars themselves make a big difference. If I put speakers that sound great in a suburban into my TSX, won't the accoustics be totally different (based on speaker placement, interior size, shape, etc.) I guess my question is how can you compare different systems if they are installed in different cars?

 

If you are a stereo snob I guess you won't like the TSX. I know it's the best stereo I've ever had in a car...

 

Ok lets see... The Linn Sound system in the Aston Martin Vanquish ($370,000 CDN) is worth around the same price as a base Honda Civic! Linn custom makes the system for the Vanquish only. Since Linn is an audiophile brand (they don't usually make car systems), I suspect that the Vanquish's system is very very hard to beat for a car system...

As for the TSX sound system, I find it average at most but not as crappy as other people think. The sound is boomy (quite a good amount off bass but it's not tight at all). The sound level is more than adequate when driving windows up. The sound level is barely sufficent when driving at high speed with windows down. When using good quality recordings, the system delivers a clean sound even when the level is at 90%. The tweeters deliver a sound that is not harsh (or analytical). On the other hand, the radio sound REALLY lousy (and I'm being polite).

In any case, you can't expect for a car system to have good imaging (soundstage) nor a lot of details. The only thing you can ask for a car system is a clean sound (without too much distortion), a tight bass (which lacks in the TSX), high spl (for driving fast with windows down).

I consider myself as an audiophile (my home 2 channel system is worth more than my TSX and delivers only 100 watts into 8 ohms). I own around 800 cds (from Opera to heavy metal to old school rap, but not disco) and I've tried pretty much every kind of music in the car... To me, the Tsx system is good for a car.

Note: I'm sure that the Mark Levinson system in the new Lexus SC430 sounds much better than the Pionner but you can't expect that kind of system in a $35K CDN car).

Jason, if you're a real stereo snob, no car system will be good enough (I'm not a stereo snob by the way)...

Warmest regards

 

Igregoir must have a tube system like me(CARY ) with only 100 wpc. Mine's the same until I switch to Triode. It ain't how many you have, its how good they are.
That said, I'm getting mine on Monday, and never listened to the radio. Its got to be better than the one in my 2002 CRV, and might be as good as the stock one in my 2000 Lexus GS 400.
The one in the CRV sounded like poop, until it had about a month of use, then got listenable on CDs. Frankly, I'm glad not to be putting more $$ in Bose's pocket.

 

I agree with moreace ; I could almost guarantee you that simply replacing the stock speakers with sometihing better (polk, infinity, etc) will greatly increase the sound quality. Add dynamat (or other equivalent sound-deadening material) and you'll probably end up with sound comparable to the bose systems.

Were you doing the comparisons on the road or just sitting in the cars? Keep in mind that the wind/tire/engine noise greatly affects sound quality. The TSX is generally quieter than the competition (with equally-sized tires). The higher-end models (LS300, etc) are obviously going to be more insulated and therefore sound better.

"Sound quality" also depends on the type of music you listen to. Did you bring a variety of CDs (Jazz, Classical, Rock, Dance, Rap, etc)? Some systems are designed to sound better with certain kinds of music.

One negative thing I've heard about the TSX is that the amp only supplies low frequencies to the rear speakers. I could see the reasoning behind the decision, but that has to suck for the passengers.

 

No, I used to be a tube guy (Audio Research LS-25 with VT100) but it was warming my hole house in the winter and during summer I couldn't stand staying in the room... So I got some YBA Passion Amp/Preamp.

I totally agree with you, enough money for Bose. They only spend their money on advertisement and not on quality parts (in my own opinion)...

Let me know how you find the sound in you TSX (by the way, I think the front speakers are driven from a 45 watts Mosfet amp)...

By the way, You have a GS400, a CR-V and now you're getting a TSX?

Just to let you know, I was thinking of trying to use the David Berning Micro ZOTL (.75 watts) to run the Tweeters but it's too complicated...

Cheers

 

Gosh, a Micro ZOTL to power the tweets. Who would have thought about that one.
I had a GS 400 until last July when my boy decided to get his full driver's license. Trying to save money and get him a decent car, I just traded it in on two automatic CRV EXs, silver for him and a black one for me.Its a very nice vehicle. zippy and very useful, but the TSX reminded me of the old 4 cylinder beemers I used to own, with more luxury like my Lexus. We still own an 2001 RX300 that my spouse uses daily. It was actually better on trips than the GS.
The Cary V12R, SLP 2002 and 308T do increase the temprature of my 11x13 room, but it's worth it to hear the B&W N804s sing.

 

Actually there are full range speakers in the rear doors. The 6x9 on the deck are acting as subs. True the TSX system is a little muddy but it IS a decent factory system. In my experience you don't crank up the system when you have a car full of people.

I for one think the ultimate car stereo should be loud and obnoxious and that a 5.1 system in a car makes about as much sense as a screen door in a submarine. Face it, with all the noise you are fightng to overcome from your own engine to the passing truck and wind noise and vibration from every crack on the road how on earth do you expect to acheive any real sound quality? It'd be like having a washing machine in you music room at home.

Music is supposed to be fun stop taking it all so seriously.

 

Yeah, I bought a TSX and thought the stereo sucked asscock and you know what? For $500 I replaced all the speakers with high end shit and now it sounds incredible. Car stereo systems are so easily replaced that it shouldn't factor in at all other than that the car will cost around $500 more than the final dealer price. THe tsx is still a frickin bargain.

 

Five hundred dollars sounds like a reasonable stereo upgrade. What brand/model speakers did you buy to replace the stock units? Did the $500 include installation by a shop, or did you do it yourself?

 

Which speaker replacement improve the sound most? rear deck sub or full range on the door? any suggestion?

 

man, for $500 in my home system, I can't even pay a power cord! What kind of drivers did you get?

 

shop did all the work
I put alpine type -R speakers in the front door. alpine type -s speakers in the back above the trunk and removed the tweeter speakers in the dash. If I spent $300 more and got a 4 channel amp powering these speakers it would sound even more incredible so I have room for a future upgrade if I ever feel like it.

 

WHy did you remove the tweeters?

 

The alpine type -r speakers in his door have tweeters on them, so the shop probably disconnected the stock tweeters, a good idea as they wont sound similar.

Personally, I love a pair of well placed tweeters, so I'd consider adding a pair of tweeters too, to improve imaging and make the highs a bit more clear. You should be able to get a pair of tweets for under a hundred bucks.

-vasu