gsxr151

I'm planning on running a sub and amp with my factory deck (using a line out converter). Does this work? Or is there somthing I should know? I've heard some stories about really bad "wines" coming out of the speaker...

mcdanjw

Yes, it will work. Just tap one of the speaker leads to the rear speakers.

It will sound decent too... shouldn't be any whine, if it is installed correctly with a good ground.

gsxr151

The guys at the install shop said they were planning on running the line out converter to the back of the deck...then run RCA's all the way to the trunk... they said that's where the signal is stongest... What do you say about that? My thought was just tap into the speaker too...

mcdanjw

That makes no sense whatsoever.

The wires behind the deck are LINE LEVEL. No line output converter is necessary there. They could tap those leads and then run a rca cable, but it would be easier to tap the same leads as the emerge in the trunk before they enter the amp. That crap about the signal being stronger behind the deck is just that, crap.

The only place a line output converter is necessary is after the factory amp... which is in the trunk.


Be sure you get these guys to tell you exactly what they plan to do. It is possible they don't know what they are doing.


I have seen people calling line drivers (a device that boosts line level signals) line output converters on this board. Perhaps that is the device they are talking about? There is a product that will plug into the back of the deck and has 2 RCA plugs coming out of it. It that case, plugging in behind the deck is possible.


But honestly, if you are just looking to add bass, I would mess with the expense of having the dash taken apart. Just get an amp that has SPEAKER LEVEL inputs on it, and tap the speaker wires for the rear 6x9's. That does the exact same thing as using a line output converter and saves a step and some cash.

gsxr151

It sounds like your familiar with a "line out converter". Just to be clear, it's a small box that has wires on one side and RCA inputs on the other. You splice the wires into speaker wire, then plug your RCA's into the other side. Now you have a place to plug in your RCA that comes from your amp.

Again, you know what your talking about…I just want to be clear I'm explaining things right.

You mention "the wires behind the deck are LINE LEVEL" What is line level? You say they could tap those leads and run an RCA cable. Please explain. Do you mean splice in an RCA? Or are you saying there is a place to PLUG in the RCA? I'm not following on that part… The guys said I need that line out converter because there is no place to plug in the RCA's...

mcdanjw

Yeah, I got ya...

When I say line level I mean a signal that is meant to be fed directly into the RCA inputs on an amp.

Historically, a line output converter was a device that took a speaker level signal and converter it to a line level signal (or preamp signal), hence the name. These would be used in applications where no line level signal was available, such as a deck with its own internal amplifier.

Recently, I have seen devices that boost line level or preamp signals called line output converters. Since the signal was already line level, I don't think calling this type of device a line output converter is correct. It just makes things confusing. But who am I to say?

It sounds like the guys at your shop are using the term line output converter to describe the device that plugs into the back of the deck and has RCA plugs on it. Maybe that's the term the shops are using these days for this device. Technically, this device isn't necessary, you could just splice RCA plugs onto the output wires of the deck (like I did) and acheive the same result. You are right, there are no RCA jacks on the back of our deck.

But this connector is probably the easiest way to go, and the most reliable since the splicing the wires method is more difficult and you would have no way to know if they were taking the time to do it right.

I think I got tricked by the line output converter thing... I can't train my brain into thinking it is anything but what it is after all this time!

What kind of amp and sub are you planning on using?

gsxr151

So here is what I'll do. I'll be sure and explain to the guys more about my car and what you've told me. Essentially it sounds like there are internal RCA's running from our Bose decks to our Bose Amps. I know what your saying. If you open up an RCA I think there is three smaller wires inside… So I'd cut those and splice in… Sounds easy enough, however I'll still have to check with them. I saw what they were talking about and it was the old school line out converter (wires on one side and RCA's inputs on another)

I'm going to get one 12" Alpine Type-R, a custom built box for the sub, and the Alpine MRD-M300 V12. That amp is one channel. When you bridge the dual voice coil sub down to 2 ohms the Amp produces 300 RMS. I also just won a item off e-bay… It's a remote bass gain for that amp. I'm going to run that up to my driver seat.

Any thoughts?

mcdanjw

That's a nice amp!

Before I put my foot in my mouth, I am assuming you are talking about this amp:

Alpine MDR-M300


This amp has speaker level inputs on it. The easiest (and cheapest) way to hook this up is to tap the rear speaker leads just before the go into the speakers, and plug those wires directly into the speaker level inputs on the amp.

This amp basically has a (old school) line output converter built in. No need to purchase an external one.


Technically, you should get better sound using the line level signal for the amp, but I will say that we hooked another board members car up with new speakers by tapping the rear speaker leads as I am describing and it sound incredibly good.

You might try having them hook it up this way first (because it is so damn easy - literally a 3 minute job) and if you aren't happy with the sound then you can pay them to tear the dash apart and pay for the appropriate converter box. You wouldn't be out anything by trying the speaker level inputs on the amp since it already has them first.

Your speaker selection and control knob sound like a good plan to me!

gsxr151

Yes, that is the correct amp. I was looking at a store here in Minnesota called Circuit City. They are selling the amp for $250 on sale, and the speaker for about $160. As far as the box goes, there is a install guy there that said don't buy a box we sell…he's going to build one for me that fits that sub's requirements. I'll basically have it custom made for about the same price as the boxes they sell.

Yesterday I found this website called www.etronics.com. They have some sweet pricing! I can get the amp for $209 and the sub for $114. Already that saves me about $100 (including not paying local tax). Then of course I'll pay about $25 for shipping, but for a $75 dollar savings that's just fine with me.

The remote gain I won on e-bay for $15, and they are $30 usually.

Sweet! That's perfect that the amp has the correct inputs. Your right I'll have them tap right into my speaker in that case.

Hey, thanks for your help. You probably saved me $50 at least. Plus I don't think I want some guys ripping apart my beautiful Acura CL-S dash!!!

mcdanjw

You can send payment via paypal. j/k

I've just seen so many people get sold stuff they didn't need... or get more complexity (and the problems that go with it) than was necessary.

I certainly wouldn't want a high schooler tearing my dash apart. I'm sure he would scratch something and then I would have to kill him.

Sounds like you have this puzzle figured out! Good luck... I think you'll be quite happy with this setup.

SilverKnight

Having some one tearing your dash apart may mean missing screws too. I worked on a fellow CL-er member who had his system installed by a "professional installer". Guess what? There were 11 screws missing in the dash area including the critical ones.

types32cl

i have the same setup and i think it sounds great, not riduculously powerful but sufficient, anyone have complaints about the bars connected to the trunk under the rear shelf rattling and how i would stop that, and would dynamatting the entire trunk help (The shelf rattles too) and my spoiler shakes from the outside and makes noise, it is securely mounted and i cant stop it...help?

gsxr151

The same set up as we were talking about? The Alpine 12"Type R, and the M300 v12? Did you make your own box or buy one?

Did you run RCA's or did you hook up from a rear speaker?

Six Shifter

here we go again
an example of the device you are looking at/for is called a SOUNDGATE LOCPREA. This is a small box that takes your H/U line output (L/R channel either front or rear) feeds that normally run into your trunk mounted amp and converts these feeds to RCA female jacks. From here you can either run a set of lines to a new amp in the trunk, or (preferably) thru a 1/2 din EQ mounted in the spot currently occupied by the post-it tray (assuming you do not have a Navi). You need to be sure not/NOT to get the SOUNDGATE LOCB, as this device, unlike the LOCPREA, requires a +12v feed and a ground feed - the LOCPREA is a passive unit, and has an adjustable pot (potentiometer) which can provide you with the ability to increase or decrease the output from the factory H/U to match the gains in your amp. The LOCPREA removes any/all alt windings that the LOCB effectively amplifies, since the outputs from our factory H/U puts out 3.15vrms on each lead, and the LOCB is looking to push 2.5vrms down the line -- the effective result of this option is that you are already overdriving the capabilities of the line output converter from the onset, whereby the LOCPREA is a passive line output converter and therefore adds no noise (that's no, none, ZERO) to the system.

gsxr151

Thanks for the info. What I want to avoid is ripping apart my dash (For now). The amp that I'm buying has a high-pass crossover built in. I'm told I can run it from one of the rear speakers.

You sound like you are serious into car audio. Check out types32cl's question a coupple posts up. He's getting rattles all over from his sub... How did you stop yours?

Six Shifter

Unlike what appears to be the preferred install by most in here, my sub is facing forward, firing thru the passthru and not facing the rear of the car. Absolutely no rattles in the rear shelf, the spoiler (where most seem to complain about rattles from their sub(s)), or anywhere. Granted, my sub is not consistently cranked up enuf to entertain people in the next county or state, but with what is driving it there is plenty of volume to provide a comforting back massage with the right sounds without the annoyance of additional rattles

OUTRAGEOUS CL TYPE S

i'm running a line driver on my Hi Low. Shit Thumbs on my 1200.1 and Infinity kappa perfect 12s (2)

Bluto

I have a Arc Audio 2100CXL. Input Sensitivity is 250mV-2.5V. I have the outputs from the factory H/U directly wired using RCAs. My gain is at 1/3.

If the 3.15 is true, wouldn't my amp be in over-voltage protection and not work?

SilverKnight

outputs from stock HU is 3.15V? You got to be kidding me! Where did you get this info? I will buy it until you provide some proof.
According to the power it puts out in relative with my screen, I believe it puts out anywhere between 500mV and 1V.

Bluto

I've searched and can not find the thread where that was stated.



How can a passive unit achive gain on a signal?

SilverKnight

On passive LOC, that pot would bypass or limit the inputs. No gain can be achieved.

Six Shifter

Information was provided by the unreliable resource known as ACURA. After looking at the info on your sticky, I still had some questions about what was going on since my attempt to use the advertised solution (based on their catalogue) - the LOCB - effectively caused both alt windings and "white noise" throughout the system which I initially attributed to the Alpine EQ (defeat the EQ, and the "white noise" disappeared, engage it and there was nothing but "white noise" throughout the system). Called Bose, and they could/would provide no information about the H/U since their products are the amp/speakers. Called ACURA and asked them to tell me what the voltage was on the line level leads from the back of the H/U going back to the amps. I was told to talk to Bose. I informed ACURA that Bose took no position on the H/U, for the reason mentioned above. Was then told to contact my ACURA dealership and ask them. I informed ACURA that no service/parts department would even entertain the question as there was no reason for them to know or otherwise be interested in this information since as far as they were concerned the factory H/U connected to the Amp - end of story. The ACURA rep asked me to hold and when they came back they begrudgeingly told me that the output from the factory H/U was 3.15vrms. Now, if you were to go to the SOUNDGATE website (http://www.soundgate.com/products/li...put/type-2.htm) and read about their products, you would see where I am coming from wrt the LOCB vs the LOCPREA. In practical terms ... I attempted to utilize every combination on the dip switches that the LOCB allowed for, and it was very clear that the 8 dip switches employed in this unit (4 ea left and right paired) effectively worked on a specific part of the frequency spectrum (hi's, mid's, low's, and something somewhere in between) and worked as a boost or a cut on the particular combination employed. The last time I was given the car based on the installers attempts to deal with the problems, all levels were 'cut' via the LOCB, which manifested itself by my noticeing that in order to get the volume level I had enjoyed with the previous settings, I had to max the volume control on the H/U (full clockwise to get levels at previous mid-range position), and as an aside I had virtually no base via the EQ. I then called the Operations Manager at SOUNDGATE and explained to him my situation, and after I gave him all the facts and figures I had acquired, he admitted that while on the surface their literature would indicate that the LOCB was the proper application for trying to add aftermarket electronics to the factory H/U, the LOCPREA was the correct application to our vehicles, as this unit presented neither grounding problems nor configuration problems since no +12v is required to be fed into the unit (unlike the LOCB).
The problem you all are going to have with my opinions are just that ... they are my opinions. I have had both the LOCB and the LOCPREA in my car, and the LOCPREA stays since it is the quieter solution, neither adds nor amplifies any noise from the H/U as it sends its signals downstream, and eliminates alt windings that the LOCB added/amplified/whatever. Even though the output of our H/U - as provided by ACURA - falls within the range of what the LOCB accepts, there was no way I was going to listen to hisssssss for any period of time. The whole purpose of adding the EQ is to make up for the shitty base/treble controls of the factory H/U since I didn't want to have something aftermarket occupying the area of the H/U which wasn't asthetically pleasing to me, and since I'm the one driving this car, mine is the only opinion that counts. In my system, the JL amps are basically set to a minimum position. The pot can be used to limit the output of the H/U if you've got the amp's cranked up ... on mine, the pot is maxed since my amp gains are down - so effectively there isn't any discernable difference from stock. It could be opined that the LOCPREA is effectively taking the place of a couple of gobs of solder - thereby giving me an RCA feed where there was once a line feed in order to feed the signal from the H/U into the EQ. If that is the way you want to read it, so be it. I'd rather have something that I can deal with in case there were any problems down the road than having to deal with cold solder joints which were applied in an area with limited accessibility, which if they were to occur would make for one major mess/headache - if not now, then when I attempted to return the system to its original bone stock configuration.

SilverKnight

wow long post. Thanks for your time .
I really doubt what the Acura service advisor told you about the stock HU output signals since they didn't even know it was made by Pioneer. In fact, I'm sure that they have no clue what the output signal level is. They just came up with some BS to get you off the phone. If you are familiar with the car stereo scene. 4.5V and above outputs were achieved lately and only high end head units can produce that kind of outputs. Most current units run at 2V-2.5V. Most OEM equiped units are always below average compared to aftermarket (there are exception but very few). With the way Honda uses crappy paper cone Bose speakers, I don't think they would put a competition level head unit in our CL.

gsxr151

What do I REALLY need to know in all this?

IWuvMyCL-S

Ya, hopefully somebody can please clarify for us non-stereo heads.

I want to hook up a sub to my factory Bose.... from a different thread, I believe I can just hookup one via the high level outputs (like the Infinity Baselink). Is dis right?

mcdanjw

Absolutely... and that is definitely the best way to hook that basslink up for most applications. Just tap the rear speaker wires before they plug into the rear speakers under the rear deck and be done with it.

scotty v

not to but-in, but i am still learning all of this myself and had a lot of stereo equip. from my old grand prix. i took the 2 12"s (boston competitors) and my amp and ran them with a "converter" from the rear speakers. it worked great and just when i finally had everything perfect 2 months later, the subs stopped beatin and the amp went into protection. i haven't had the equip. for very long so i don't think the amp (Kenwood excelon x401m) is fried. any ideas on what may have happened? i was told that the ground may have been too long or the converter i used was a shitty way of going about my hookup, but i think that is b.s.
also - where can i order the correct rca converter if this is the problem. thanks in advance for any help.

scotty v

by the way, in response to the earlier rattle question: when my subs were working - i also had the bad rattle from the bars in the trunk. i fixed that rattle and the rear deck by takin paper towel, wrapping it around the bars and then takin black electrical tape and wrapping it around the paper towel (sounds ghetto, but it doesn't look bad if time is taken). any bright idea of some sort of padding wrapped arounf the center of the bars will stop that rattle. i also bought small tan felt sticky circles and stuck them to the window in between the rear deck and it stopped those rattles as well. as long as they are placed far down enough, they will be unseen.

gsxr151

Funny you bring that up. I'm the person who started this post. I finally hooked up my new amp and sub. My amp was an alpine MRD-M300, professionaly installed! It worked on the way home, and the next morning there was no power to the amp. I took it back and had it tested. The Amp was fried and will not power up. One hour old. I'm screwed becuase the guy on e-bay said that it's covered under a year warr. but I called Alpine and they said I must a a receipt from a licenced vendor!!!

icy CL

just do what mcdan says. get an amp with speaker inputs, tap into the rear speakers for the signal. run a power wire from the battery to power the amp. get the remote turn on from the bose amplifier ( wire color is yellow/white). that's it. several people have done this with a baselink, some with separate amps and subs. just make sure you got good wire connections and a good ground and all should be fine. i did mine this way before and it was okay. then decided to change everything except the headunit....and it's awesome.

Bluto

What you do depends on:

Time
Money
Experience

For my amp I soldered RCAs to the inputs on the Bose amp. Was not 'easy.'

When I add another amp. I'll use this. Plugs in behind your headunit: CLAB98-R

http://www.linkmeup.com/cablelink.htm


pic here

Run high quality RCAs from the headunit to the back of the car. I will make my own harness. The male/female adapters are available at car audio stores. I have a Helms, getting the headunit out should not be difficult. It will provide the cleanest signal to the trunk.

Six Shifter

this is a variation of the Soundgate LOCPREA. main difference is this is a plug and play, where the SG simply requires splicing the L/R channel +/- outputs from the H/U into the SG which then provides a pair of RCA connectors for runs to the amp (or to an EQ for four channel/sub feeds to the amps). Takes less than 1/2 hour to remove H/U once you get familiar with the location of all the screws etc.