madmanmax3000

I have a TSX and I'm using mercman's cable. The cable has a true turn-on wire that is linked directly to the power condition of the head unit. However, if I am not listening to music and try to do a voice command or hear route guidance, most of the voice is cut out. My assumption is that this is because my amp takes a few seconds after receiving a signal at the remote wire before it will produce sound.

I often have the stereo off when I am using the navi, so this is a nuisance. Would there be any drawbacks to running the turn-on wire from an "ACC" signal and having my amp on whenever the car is on?

Also, does anybody know if there is +12 constant power somewhere near the front of the car like between the seats? (don't worry I'm not using it to power my amp)

To all of those that have been following my audio install saga, things are almost wrapped up. I finally have a 4ch balun with sub control solution that I am in the process of installing, and my sub enclosure should be here wednesday. Everything else is done

wong05tsx

iTrader: (6)

You can get a 12v signal from the navi unit in the trunk

Reach

Or either of the cig lighters. Or run a dedicated one from the fusebox. (which is how I did mine) All better options than the line on the merc cable, which is just there for convenience.

mercman

Max,
The amp turn on wire in the harness is a switched accessory line and does not switch with the HU. The reason for this is the NAV and Bluetooth need the amp to be online the entire time not just with the radio. The reason you are having problems might be that your amp is set up for input sens turn on or you have your front level too low. Remember, the NAV only mutes the front channels, if you have the rear gain set too high you might not hear the voice. Go back and recheck your amp set up and your front and rear gain settings.

jeff

madmanmax3000

Once again you called it Jeff. This amp sure is full of tricks! It is for sure a signal-sensing amplifier. The manual doesn't mention any way to make it non-signal-sensing, unfortunately.

So does this mean I have to have the radio turned on if I want to use the navi or voice commands, or is there another way around this?

Thanks

madmanmax3000

I figure tonight i will try using a different acc line for the turn on and see what happens. Perhaps since I have an '04 with no Bluetooth the wire on jeffs harness functions differently. It seems weird that it would have a remote wire terminal on the amp if it had no function. Anybody think it would?

mercman

I would call the tech support #. You can check for 12v with a voltmeter and the ignition on. If you are getting nav prompts then you ignition is on and you have 12 volts. The year doesn’t mater, they all work the same, the factory amp is on anytime the Acc or run positions are selected. , the wire in the harness is the turn of for the factory amp. Your amp must have an over ride or it would not have a turn-on input. Don’t overlook the JL box you have installed on the front channels, perhaps it is going to sleep.

jeff

madmanmax3000

Hey Jeff,

The JL units are on whenever the car is on, there is a green status light. Also, this problem existed without the JL units also. I just caled up Audison and they said that the turn-on wire wont work if there is less than 11V on it. Is there definitely 12V going into the turn on wire of your harness? I figure I will try jumping the +12 terminal and the remote terminal and see if it goes on then without the head unit being on.

I really wish I weren't at work right now and could go try all of this out! Only a few more hours...

mercman

Yes, you get a full 12volts with the Acc on. I suspect other issues with your install, but take the voltmeter and check the turn on voltage anyway. Don’t bother running another wire if you see 12 volts. If you see less the 12v let me know. Also check the amp power while you are at it. It should be the same as the turn on wire.

jeff

madmanmax3000

Hey so I just went out to the car and checked everything out. Very interesting results....

With the car on and the radio off, 0V between remote wire and ground
With the car on and the radio on, 14V between remote wire and ground

Seems to me like the remote wire is sensitive to the head unit's state, not the car's state.

So...I grabbed an ACC signal and stuck that in the remote wire port

With the car on and the radio off, 14V between remote wire and ground
With the car on and the radio on, 14V between remote wire and ground

Everything sounded great with the radio on, BUT with the radio off there was a hissing and random pops. The pops were low frequency and rather loud. They sounded almost as if somebody was kicking my door panels.

What does this tell me? I have no idea. And yes I was running it through the JL "balun" setup so I believe it's not a balanced signal problem.

madmanmax3000

Anybody? I'd love to get this resolved today, first time its been above freezing in forever!

mercman

Max,
You have a 2004 with factory NAV correct?
Did anyone ever do any audio work on your TSX before you?
Did you use the speaker wire harness from Crutchfield to connect your amps?

Here is what I would like you to do,
If you used the speaker wire harness I want you to disconnect you amps by removing it and my harness and then plug your factory amp back in. Then test for you NAV voice and see if you have the same problem (with the voice getting cutting off).

If you don’t have the problem with the factory amp then plug in my harness at the TSX side and disconnect it from the amp side (including the turn on wire). Don’t let the turn on wire touch ground). Connect your meter to the turn on wire and a ground other then your amp ground (I use the mounting bolt on the DVD NAV drive). See if you get 12v when the NAV is booted up and the radio off.

Let me know what you get.

jeff

madmanmax3000

Yes, '04 w/ Navi. Nobody has done audio work on the car before, I bought it new. Yes I am using the Crutchfield speaker harness for the fronts and tweets, my own wire for rear deck and sub.

I didn't have any problem with the navigation voice before the install, however I guess it's possible that something got messed up. I'll run the tests you want me to do as soon as I get home from work.

Jeff if you would prefer me to reach you by email or pm, just shoot me a pm. Thanks so much for all of your help.

madmanmax3000

Okay Jeff, finally got around to testing. I had to deal with a flooded basement yesterday

So with the factory amp plugged back in, no clipping of the navi voice.

I plugged in your harness to the car's harness and left the other end unplugged, then measured the voltage on the red wire with the engine running and nav system active. I measured 0V.

So I turned on the radio, measured the red wire in your harness again, 14V.

What do you suggest I do?

madmanmax3000

Also, what do you think could be causing the problem I described above when I tapped the cigarette lighter for ACC power (where everything sounds fine when the radio is on, but I get loud deep pops with it off)? Shouldn't it not matter whether the remote wire is from your harness or not?

wow, guess I'm up to 1000 posts, only took 4 years

mercman

Ok Max, let’s try this,

With the harness connected at the TSX side and still disconnected from the amps. Measure the voltage on the turn on wire with the radio off and the NAV booted and ready. Then while monitoring the voltage activate a voice command. Basically I want you to watch the voltage when the NAV speaks.

Since you have your amp wired to a different switched source you can go ahead and connect one of the front channel RCAs to your main channel amp so you can here the NAV voice. This will make the test easier.

Let me know what you get.

That was some storm, I didn’t think it was ever going to stop raining, glad it wasn’t snow!

jeff

madmanmax3000

Hey, so I ran the test. As I expected, with the car on the navi off I got 0V. I punched in a destination, a few seconds later I heard "Please proceed to the highlighted route" along with a 5 second spike voltage rise to 14V, then back to 0V immediately afterward.

It certainly seems as though the red wire on my particular harness at least is only on when the radio/nav is on.

This wouldn't be such a problem if using a different ACC power source was working, but I cannot figure out why I am getting all of the strange sounds with everything off and I hear nothing but the right noises when I have the radio/nav on.

What do you suggest?

mercman

Ok good, that is what I expected. Now connect the harness amp turn on wire to your amp. Then with only one channel connected see if the NAV voice is cut off. If it sounds OK then reconnect your JL units to the new switched power line and leave the amp connected to the harness. Just feed the JLs power and turn on lead from the new switched power wire for the test. See how that works and let me know.

jeff

madmanmax3000

Okay so I wired up the amp on one channel and used the remote lead from your harness. The voice was cut off for nearly the whole sentence, I just heard a little blip of voice at the end. I tried making it say some longer things and was able to catch more of the voice but the beginning was still cut off. It seems that this amp has a few seconds of startup time during which it doesn't produce sound.

I did not get a chance to try it again with the JL units, although what you described was the setup in which I initally had this issue. Therefore, I can assume that I will have the same results. However, if you still feel that I should complete the test with the JL units I will after work.

I really just want to find a way to have the amp on whenever the car is on and not have strange noises when the radio is off.

mercman

Hi Max,
What I’m trying to find out is how long before or after the turn on lead hits 12 volts does your voice start. All amps have a delay that is the function of the rmt turn on wire. The delay prevents thumps from the electronics when first powered up. Your amp might have a longer delay the NAV. It’s tough to do with a DVM but try to get an idea of how long it takes for the voice to start (with the amp hot wired) after the turn on signal hits 12v.

If you notice a delay in the NAV voice, try to count how long it is and write it down so you don’t forget.

After you do that, then try this,
Connect your amp turn on to the Hot switched source.
Connect the JL power wire also to the Hot switched source.
Connect the switched wire of the JL to the harness amp turn on wire.
Connect your front channel the JL and patch the JL to the amp (just do the fronts for now).

Try the NAV voice again and let me know.

jeff

madmanmax3000

Thanks Jeff, I will definitely try doing all of that when I get home in a few hours.

My question is, however, why should I not just use a switched power source as my turn on wire? Even if I find out exactly how long the delay on the wire/amp is, I already know that it is too long for the navi voice to function properly, right?

Is there a better switched power source in the car to use that you feel wouldn't give me those popping sounds with the radio off? Do you have any idea why I'm getting the noises?

mercman

Hi Max,
Don’t jump ahead; I’ll explain what is happening once you complete the tests. I’m pretty sure I know what is going on but I need you to do the rest of the tests to be sure. If I had your car here I could just connect my test equipment and find out. You don’t want to drive down to Long Island do you?

jeff

madmanmax3000

Hah, at this point I'd almost be up for that. Maybe if they put that tunnel under the Sound like they've been talking about.

I'm more than happy to run the tests, you've been a great help. I'm going away for the weekend so I just want to try to get as much resolved today as possible. If these are the steps I need to take thats no problem.

In a couple hours I'll have some results for you!

madmanmax3000

Hey Jeff, genius idea. I measured the voltage on your harness' remote wire and it jumped up to 14V as soon as I hit the "Voice" button on the screen. There seems to be zero delay, so I understood where you were going...

I connected everything up the way you asked, with the amp on switched power, and the JL's switched power running off of your harness' remote wire.

As I'm sure you expected, the JL units had an instantaneous start-up time and I heard the voice with nothing cut off!! That setup was a great idea

So here's my problem now, which I may already have an answer to, but wanted to get my results up on here as soon as possible. Although there is no clipping, there is a very distinctive "pop-pop" whenever the JL unit switches on or off. It is relatively loud, and happens when I turn the radio on or off and also when the navi voice comes on and ends.

So that you know, I have the JL's +12 constant and the amp's "remote" wire running off of the same switched power wire using an essential Y adapter. I suppose it is possible that when the JL unit switches on there is a bit of a spike in the switched power wire which is then transferring over to the amp's "turn-on" wire and making noise in the amp. What do you think?

mercman

What you are hearing now is the JL units own turn on pop. I was hoping they would be a little more graceful but, oh well.
This should be the last test.

Unplug the harness from the JLs and just connect one of the front channels to the amp like you did before. What I’m looking to see is when the pops you reported before actually happen, so start with the HU off and try the NAV voice. Then try no nav and no HU and see if you get any sporadic noise. Last, try it with the HU on, switch to AUX or play a silence track on a CD so you can hear any slight pop or crackle.

jeff

madmanmax3000

So leave the JL units plugged into power, but run the signal from your harness directly into the amp?

madmanmax3000

Okay so I did the testing. Here's what I found with the amp running on switched power for the remote wire and 1 channel connected directly from the harness.

Everything off, engine on, there was loud alternator whine.

Turned on "AUX" for silence, and yes everything was silent.

Hit voice button on navi, there was nothing cut off, and the alternator whine stopped while the voice was speaking.

For the record, the JL unit was still plugged into power, sharing a source with the turn-on lead to the amp. I don't really know if that has any effect.

mercman

Ok it sounds like the pops you were getting before did not source form the HU. Just hook up one JL unit and feed the front L/R thru it. Don’t connect your sub or rear channels. Use the switched power to power the JL and also feed the remote turn on for the amp and JLs. Try the test again. The Alt whine should be gone and let’s see if you get any pops.

jeff

madmanmax3000

So use the switched power for all 3 connections? As the amp turn on, and both of the power connections on the JL?

mercman

yes, don't use the harness turn on wire.

madmanmax3000

Okay, did the test, alternator noise disappeared but "pop-pop" noise stayed for navi voice and radio

madmanmax3000

So what do you think I should do at this point? Is there anything else I can do?

I don't particularly want to leave the system as-is and live with the noise. A few times it has been rather loud, and it surely cant be good for the speakers. Is putting in a call to JL to ask anything worthwhile?

mercman

Relocate the ground on the JL unit to the ground terminal at the power amp. Test again using only the front channels.

jeff

madmanmax3000

Hey, well it's late and I guess I misread your post a bit. I moved the ground to the same bolt the amp is grounded to and I used all 4 channels, still had pops.

I will try to do the setup you wanted in the morning, but figured I'd let you know what happened with the setup I accidentally did

madmanmax3000

Okay, just went out to the garage and tried it out the way you asked, with the JL on the ground terminal of the amp and only front channel. Still got the pops, no alternator whine.

mercman

Ok well I think we have narrowed it down, just double check that without the JL unit you get no pops. OK bad grammar I know. I was thinking is that you might have a ground loop with the JL and that might be causing the pops. Moving the JL ground to the amp ground terminal would have confirmed that if the pops went away but they didn’t. It would seem as if the JL is the source of the pops but I would have to look at it with my scope to confirm.

The only thing left to try is one of my BALUNs or interface converters in place of the JL unit. Or, perhaps one of my four channel units in front of the JL might work and you could still have your sub gain control.

As a desperation measure you could try a car audio noise filter in the power line of the JL.

jeff

madmanmax3000

Hmm okay well hard to say whether the pop exists without the JL units since I get alternator whine if I'm not using the turn on wire and theres a delay if I am.

Are you fairly confident that I could eliminate the pop by using one of your baluns? Possibly in conjunction with one of the JLs?

mercman

I’m sure we can fix this; I’ll shoot you a PM with some options.

Oh I forgot to ask. You have the JL units set for normal output correct/ do not use the high output setting. Check to make sure.

jeff