My friend is hooking up an amp and sub in his car. He has a 760 watt amp. Is 8 guage wire good enough or should he go for some 4 guage or even 2.

 

What kind of amp is it?
Is 760 watts peak? or RMS?
How much current does it draw?
How far do you have to go?

 

bigman:
You didn't exactly say what wire you were talking about...power wire or speaker wire? Usually I go 4 gauge and 8 gauge...unless the amp is drawing ungodly power and outputting to an ungodly sub (not your case).

Austin519

 

The amps Peak power is 760 watts. Its a Sony explode amp. And i ned to know about power and ground wires.

 

bigman:
I'd go with 4 gauge...but ugh Xplod!

Austin519

 

I would run the 4 guage to. You might as well if the amp accepts it. Hey Austin, I have the chance to buy an another old body RF 1100A2 for a good price brand new. You think I should get it and use 1 of them for each of my Power DVCs? Is it worth it?

 

96TL:
Basically that's what I always do, you're exactly right...I run the highest gauge the amp accepts.

As for the RF Q, it's like asking a guy who's always favored chocolate...if he thinks you should get a 10 lb. Hershey Kiss. Uhm YES. Now I don't remembering you mentioning power DVC's earlier...so just going on a guess are you referring to RFR3112, 12" DVC 2 ohm with 1000W RMS handling? Well, I'll assume that and go on. Okay so they're 1000W RMS...then you'd wire it as a 4 ohm setup (coils in series) and wire it to the amp in mono (bridged) mode. The 1100's do very well in this, and you'd get 1050+ watts for each (1100 probably are rated by RF at 1400, take 75% (which is where you want to run it at) and you get 1050. That should be more than enough wattage to bust out your ears in a tiny little car (vs. my old Explorer). Hmm...now an issue you may want to worry about...running two 1100W RF amps...is the power usage. My system is only (800+400)x2+160 or 2560W...which is only 460 shy of yours...and I am going to have to rebuild my alternator. Now...an 1100a2 (if memory serves) has a MAX rating by RF of drawing 110A at full load. Now consider you're running it at 75%...so 220*.75 = 165A. Now let's say you average turning it up 75% (normal)...not full...it goes to 124A or so. Ok...consider you are running in your car your ignition system...possibly your lights, along with the rest of your electronics...so either way you look at it...it's a bit problematic (since the stock alternator puts out 120A, then subtract car electronics). So although that would be great, and anything less than that would mean you're not getting close to the potential out of your subs...be prepared to have to do a group alternator rebuild with me. I am going to post that soon...as soon as I have the cash on hand for my own...so hopefully I can get us lower prices...but look at $300-$400...with an expected alternator output of 200A

Austin519

 

Austin, you are the best. I ask you a simple question and you pour out tons of info. I really appreciate it. Anyway, the alternator rebuild is fine with me. If you think that and a nice battery will be enough, than thats fine. The main question is, "Will there be a considerable difference in sound and power?". I don't want to do it if its not really a big difference. Now I just have 1 1100A2 bridged with the 12" Power DVCs. Not the new Rf subs, but the line before which I've been told are better. I'll even post a pic for you.

 

Also, whats the turn around time for getting the alternator re-wound? I cant have my car out of commision for more than a few days. I'll be stuck driving my g/f's car. No TVs, HIDs, or system. Really sucks without those.

 

96TL:
Haha...yes well I will definitely say you've helped contribute to my post count!

Now on to answer your questions...a nice battery won't ever help (that is unless you have a bad one to start), because unfortunately a nice battery (sans the one we use in our solar car shop, and one which I am definitely using in my car) doesn't store and release charge fast enough, and doesn't create it either . For your case, where your spending more current than your alternator can cash (crappy denso/acura pathetic alternator), you'd normally have two options, either upgrade to a large case alternator (200-250A out normally stock, can be POSSIBLY rewound higher), or rewind the current one. Problem is, we've been blessed with Japanese cars...and much like Japanese housing, Japanese don't leave much room when they build...so they have a Japanese size space for your alternator. So no large case alternator for you sonny. I talked to my rebuild guys...and they say it's a 24 hour turnaround...makes it sound like you get it back in 24 hours. But well...you overnight it to them...they get it next day...they work on it and overnight it back to you...so you're looking at 2-3 days most likely. Rewinding is not too hard to do, I just honestly don't have the tools and materials to do it myself...but I know how it's done, so a 24 hour turnaround isn't a big deal.

Honestly...and well this is a personal preference, but I've never liked RF subs, too boomy for me. But I will say, powering these subs which I assume the coils are wired in series, and the subs in parallel, to the amp...off 1100 watts, so 550 apiece...versus doubling that, well 96TL...yes there will be a difference. You're giving it 2x the power...and no you won't see 2x the travel or 2x the current dB, because subs aren't linear over power load, but you'll get a LOT louder. I'd say it's worth it...assuming you're not getting overcharged for the amp. Not only that, but that amp, kept in good condition, will be worth a lot later...not saying like a mickey mantle rookie worth a lot...but you'll get your money back out of it when you resell it if you keep it in good condition and keep all the parts and box etc etc. Last but not least you'll have some symmetry in that trunk...where it looks like you have a momma amp and baby amp Although aside from that it looks very clean. Bother me about the alternator if I don't post it quick enough (next few weeks). I hope to get a scholarship check soon...so then I'll have cash for this type of thing

Austin519

 

You know what, I’m gonna go ahead with it. Tonight I’ll stop by my friends shop and get the amp. I’m gonna have to wait a while until I can install both of them though. My current 1100A2
is giving me some trouble. It gets louder and lower sometimes. Kind of like if I pull it 1 RCA cable. I think the connectors loosened up from all the vibrations. I’m sending it to Rockford to be fixed. During that time I want to upgrade the alternator. How the hell do I run a 8 guage cable and 2 4 guage cables into the trunk? My battery isnt gonna look right. What do you do in this situation? Also, should a get some capacitors? Which ones? Hehe, more questions....

 

You freakin florida guys took over my post.

 

Sorry man. I didnt mean to. I just had to ask Austin a question. He knows alot. BTW, none of us are from florida. I'm from New York like you.

 

BTW, we even answered your question so that topic was pretty much dead anyway.

 

bigman:
<pats bigman on back> sorry man didn't know you were still using it Ask away if you have more Q's!

96TL:
"My current 1100A2 is giving me some trouble. It gets louder and lower sometimes. Kind of like if I pull it 1 RCA cable. I think the connectors loosened up from all the vibrations. I’m sending it to Rockford to be fixed."

Louder and lower huh? Weird dude...really weird. If you mean louder and quieter, then it may be a loose connection...but have you hooked up another amp to the same setup and tested it...it may be your wiring. You could hook that second 1100a2 up and see if it does the same. Otherwise it sounds like an internal thing. Either way that sucks man .

"During that time I want to upgrade the alternator. How the hell do I run a 8 guage cable and 2 4 guage cables into the trunk? My battery isnt gonna look right. What do you do in this situation? Also, should a get some capacitors? Which ones? Hehe, more questions...."

Well...okay so you should have a good 3 weeks before getting that amp back. This week I find out if I get a $1500 scholarship...so if you'll wait till midweek I can tell you. I'm going to post the alternator upgrade thing tonight. I emailed Tim about it to see if it was alright. You're not the only one showing interest, and hopefully I can get a good group deal (though not gauranteed, as I have yet to ask, all I know is they are sponsoring me...that's it) but we'll see. Now, as for running cables...

You're going to be powering two 1100a2 RF amps. So you definitely will want more than a 4 ga cable, as you correctly suggested. I believe a good oxygen-free copper 2 ga cable should be alright to just power those two amps...but I am saying this after driving 10 straight hours from Birmingham AL to Austin TX, and it is almost 3:30 AM CST. So you'll end up running a 2 ga copper to a 2 ga -> 4 ga dist. block...then running each of those to your amps. As for ground, there's no need to run a ground back to the battery as the chassy is grounded...so either get two 4 ga cables, and drill holes in the car chassy, sand a ring around them, and screw in (or solder in) your wires (using eye ring terminations for the wires), or what may be cooler, though ultimately $30 more and not any more helpful, is running the two 4 ga cables to a 2 ga dist. block, then a 2 ga cable grounded VERY solidly to the chassis...but this adds the extra worry of how well you grounded it, and costs more...but it is symmetrical (and I like symmetry). I can only assume the 8 ga cable is for a third amp, that little one I saw in the picture? Well, again I need to think about the current draws and I'm not right now...but you could instead of getting that 2 ga - 4 ga dist. block get a 2 ga - 4 ga and 8 ga, and run a big old (preferably shielded) 2 ga cable back, then use the dist. blocks to take care of each of the amps. If fitting the wires into the doorframes is a problem (which I granted have not looked at that yet either), you can purchase square and rectangular cabling that fits in those types of spaces a lot better than standard round. Basically you'll want to do exactly what I'm going to do from a power scheme...although you may need one more capacitor than I do (I use two Lightning Audio 1F Digital Storm, you may need 3 depending on the type of music, and what your final current draw comes to)...

Austin519

 

Austin YOU THA MAN!!!!

 

Crzy Acura:
Ha ha ha You want an alternator upgrade too my friend? I think everyone should get one personally but well...by the way...next time you see me online, I need to talk with you about your mods...get an opinion about what I should do...so next time you see me remind me

Austin519

 

Well I think I'm getting a RF 800A4 for all the highs to keep all 3 amps looking the same and I'm gonna put my 75.2 in my g/f's car. The 800A4 accepts either 8 or 4 guage cable but I'm thinking since its only for highs, 8 guage should be fine. For the bass I would use the lowest guage possible like I said above. I'm gonna test the new 1100A2 the way you said too. Thats the best way. Last night is was doing it VERY bad. I get a few seconds of pounding bass, then it sounds like I only have 1 speaker. Very annoying. I was thinking of getting 2 caps for each 1100A2 but you said 3 is enough? That gives me some wiring issues. With 2 caps each I can just run the 4 guage cable coming out of the distribution block through the caps and into the amp but it'll cost me some more money that way. I'm not too sure what I'll do about that yet. Well, I'm going to the shop now to see how much this guy wants for the amp. I'll post later. I also have the chance to get a chrome 1100A2 brand new for $575 but it wont match my other one. We'll see....

 

96TL:
You can always get the amps chromed for around $50 apiece from chrome places...so I'd hold off on the chrome one.

An RF 800a4 (by the way I hope you're getting power series...I have a guy who was selling a lot of them, I can check for you...) has a max draw of 80A, so if I were you I'd do 4 ga wire. You could do a 2 ga - 4x 4 ga dist block, run one 4 ga through the +'s on both caps, run another to each of the three amps. I was thinking 3 F of capacitance should suit you fine...you can get 3x 1F caps or 2x1.5F caps...if that helps. Oh, and you CAN get 1 ga wire...I'm in a hurry writing this so let me check before you go and use 2 ga and need more...and $575 is a pretty good deal for that amp...I have seen them for a good bit less ($450 or so)...and usually a standard 1100a2 runs me $325-$375...but of course these babies are in short supply so you may be wise to buy it...unless you want it chromed for you.

Austin519

 

I think I hook caps up differently. I normally put 2 power wires on a cap. One wire comes from the battery, the other goes to the amp. Is that the way you do it? If its multiple caps I would do it the same. The first cap has the wire that comes from the battery, and the last cap has the wire that goes to the amp. Is this wrong?

BTW, can you get me a 1100A2 & 800A4 for that cheap? Let me know and maybe we'll work something out. I want Power series and they have to be black unless you can also get a chrome case for my current amp. I cant get a price from my guy till Monday. How would we arrange payment though?

 

Also, how do I tell if my 1100A2 is Power Series or Punch? I dont even know.

 

96TL:
"I think I hook caps up differently. I normally put 2 power wires on a cap. One wire comes from the battery, the other goes to the amp"

If I'm reading that correctly, what you're doing is very wrong...are you hooking the cap up in series? Because how it should look, is you have the + wire going to the cap, to the amps, and to the battery's +, and the - wire going to the cap, to the amps, and to ground. You sound as if you have the cap wired in parallel (wire going from battery to one terminal of cap...the other terminal wired to amp, and amp's - wired to ground). If that's the case, then there's your problem with the intermittent bass right there Your cap in series would charge up, drain, recharge, redrain. And if this is how you have it...let me take a guess...on slow bass beats it responds better than fast ones yes? This is the heart of a high pass filter so well...that'd be the problem with your whole system.

You want to make sure that all the + terminals are wired together...that of your battery, caps, amp, etc etc, and all the - terminals are as well (wired to ground...aka the car chassy). You can do this in any way really...either having the battery + wire going to a dist. block and attaching the +'s of all caps, amps, etc...and grounding everything else...or you could just take one wire...wire it to the battery...run it to the first cap's +, then attach a second wire to that cap's + and run it to the next one, and repeat...until you wire your amps in, and do the same there. That's basically how you'd do it without a dist block...but using a dist block is a lot easier, cleaner, and you can remove faulty components easier without having to patch your cables up.

"The first cap has the wire that comes from the battery, and the last cap has the wire that goes to the amp. Is this wrong?"

Ha ha yeah man...I'm laughing b/c your problem is luckily easy...you're wiring in series...so what's happening is that your capacitor will discharge the first time on a bass beat and won't have the chance to recharge before another one...or only partially recharge...so you're not helping yourself at all Go wire all the +'s to the other +'s and the -'s to the other -'s and see if that helps

As for the RF amps...a H1100a2 is Power series, while a G1100a2 is Punch series. It will say it on the manual, the side of the box, on the amp itself (Power or Punch), and also Power series come with a dB bass gain knob while Punch series do not (a knob you wire up remotely)...

Austin519

 

OK. I'm not sure if I understand but I made you a ghetto diagram. lol.

 

Hehe. The box says H1100A2 and I have a bass knob.

 

96TL:
Glad to hear you got an H series... Definitely nicer to have the bass knob and have it say "Power"

The diagram is correct 96TL...to give you a little more visualization...take a look at mine.

Austin519

 

Oh ok. So I do have it wired correctly? So it IS the amp that has a problem. Well I'll check the RCA's anyway. Thanks.

 

96TL:
Yeah your diagram is right...so let me know how it all goes. As for the alternator thing, I'm getting the info on our models etc and think we should send em off Monday-ish...what do you think?

Austin519

 

Sounds good to me. How do we arrange payment though? Any exact prices yet? Do we pay before or after the work is complete?

 

Another thing, I'm not sure if you seen my other post but can you get me RF amps for cheap? I need one 1100A2 and 1 800A4. Let me know prices and maybe we can work something out. I'm trying to get them for the cheapest I can. I have 4 dealers looking for me so the cheapest one wins.

 

96TL:
Sure, I will definitely look. I won't make any money off this so I'm not TOO concerned with winning But I will look for you bud.

Austin519

 

Hehe. Just joking about that. Anyway I got 2 prices already. $575 and $766!!!!! Both Power Series. When the guy told me $766 I started laughing. I paid $750 for mine when it first came out.

 

96TL:
What my guy had last time I checked was this -

Model Qty Cost
H500a2 6 250.00ea
H400a4 1 200.00ea
H360a2 1 200.00ea
G250a2 1 130.00ea
G360a2 1 175.00ea
G600a5 1 300.00ea
G800a4 1 275.00ea

What does he have now? No idea...maybe more maybe less. CarFreak has already PMed me about getting an H800a4, and I've emailed my guy about it...unfortunately the longer down the road you go the scarcer these things get...tell me what you're looking for and I'll ask him about those too. As you can see though, those are pretty good prices...I want to say he said the 1100a2 was 375, though I'm not sure...he charged $3 more for the Power series versus the Punch series.

Austin519

 

96TL:
Oh and yeah...I would have done more than laugh at $766...considering that's about double what my guy charges...I would have told him that it's insulting that he's making 100% profit off of the stupid thing...yelled at him...gave him the finger...told everyone in the store they were bastards...and left.

That $500 figure is still too much...but well if I can't find less that's all you got man.

Austin519

 

[/QUOTE] tell me what you're looking for and I'll ask him about those too.
Austin519 [/B][/QUOTE]

One 1100A2 (Has to be Power Series, I want black but chrome is fine)

One 800A4 (Want Power Series but still take Punch if thats the only choice, I want black but chrome is fine)

Let me know if you can. Also about the alternator pulley, if we CAN change it I think it will help us alot, especially at idle.

 

96TL:
I'll let you know ASAP as soon as I hear. About the alternator pulley, they're already replacing it with the smallest pulley in the industry.

Austin519

 

Oh. Cool. I was right then. Any info as to when we are sending them out? Overnight shipping is gonna kill us though. I've been thinking about that lately. Any EXACT prices yet so I can add this all up?

 

96TL:
Well, I talked with my guy up there again today...and he says two things. 1) There will definitely be a substantial discount for a group order and 2) It will be cheaper as we're not getting a new alternator...just rewinding the current one. I was supposed to get a call from the owner today, but didn't get it. I will be calling tomorrow though to get in touch with him, and lay down the finalities of it.

Austin519

 

It kind of sucks that its not more of us though. How many are getting this done? Three? I cant really spend too much just on this so let me know the price when you can.

 

96TL:
Good question...no one has really replied to let me know...so far I THINK unx979, digitalgm, you, and me. However, and one point I do want to bring up, when I talked to the company they said that there was a group selling alternators for $180 and below...mostly on eBay...and that they were horrible and would last less than 4 months. So for those that are saying "well there's cheaper" there's really not. I'm going to post to the other thread this weekend, and then we're going to do it next week.

Austin519