zazen721

hey all... im looking into replacing all the speakers in my tsx with some better ones and bypassing the amp as well. i have decided to forego the sub for now... i can always add an amp and sub at a later time. i read the tsx faq and it seems to say that adding a 2 or 3-way rear 6x9 is a bad idea and to get a 6x9 woofer. arent these the same thing though? i cant seem to find any 6x9 woofers that are not 2, 3, or 4-way. do you all think this is a good way to get a hi-fidelity system without sacrificing truck space? i would also be getting components for the front... possibly the polk audio mmc6500's...

DerrickM

I do not like 3-way and 4-way 6x9's. One tweeter should be plenty if it's quality. I would check with Elduderino--I think he said he was special-ordering some good 6x9's to be used as woofers in the TSX.

zazen721

hmm... i found some jl audio 6x9's and some by polk/momo as well... my friend tells me i need to cut the tweeter wires on the 2-way 6x9's... true?

elduderino

"need" is a relative term. The cone of a two-way is still trying to play mids, whereas a real woofer shouldn't be optimized for that...

Have you read the sticky in this section on "SQ for noobs"? It gives pretty straightforward explanations of why some people (myself included) avoid mids and highs from the rear.

There are only a couple of ways to go at present for 6x9 woofers. One is the MB Quart RCE 269 component set (take the xover and the tweeter and sell it on eBay for $50) I have a set of lower-power 6x9 woofers that have come in (my Official Vendor tag is not present yet...coming) and they are cheaper than the MBQ, but do NOT sound as good when played very loud. Genesis makes 6x9 "subs", but they are ungodly expensive.

At present, my preferred suggestion is to go with the MB Quarts (around $230 on eBay or online car stereo, around $325 in a store, I think).

My 6x9 woofers are $100 a pair, but I'd go with the MBQs if you can afford it. I am getting a new woofer tooled up at present for this but it will take like 4 months.

vidoprof

It may sound like i work for DLS, but honest I really don't I just love their stuff.

I personally LIKE mids and highs coming from behind me. But that is a preference. I had a TSX for 8 days, put a huge system into it and the car got totalled. I had DLS's 6 x 9's and they sounded pretty damn good. I put 150W to each one and they were not distorted, of course it was clean power, but they hit pretty low also.

Just my $.02 I like mids and highs, some people don't. but if you can find a dealer near you they aren't that bad. I THINK i got mine for like $300 for the pair.

Ryan

zazen721

eld... i read the "sq for noobs" a couple days ago and understand why you dont like the mids in the rear... it ruins the illusion. right?

so, the question is, if i get good 6x9 2-ways, can i cut the cable to the tweeters and get that illusion? will it ruin the speaker or its sound?

the place im taking my car does not like installing stuff they dont carry (MB Quart) because if it breaks under warranty, they cant do anything about it... they wont even take it out and ship it to the manufacturer...

jlukja

elduderino

Well, they CAN, they just won't. I know that fear, I understand it, but MB Quart is not the same as Sparkomatic.

You would be better off with the MBQ. If they do blow (which I doubt if this is set up right) they are the easiest thing to R&R in the entire audio system. The grilles snap off and there's 4 screws. Even you could do it.

On the other hand, do you really think you still have a warranty on 2-ways with cut tweeter wires? I think not...

BallsOfSteel

What do you think about this brand from Alpline "Alpine Type-R SPR-69LP"?

elduderino

I think they have tweeters.

elduderino

I guess if you are using an electronic xover to take the bass out, you can run the tweeters all day long without cutting the wires... but you do want to remember that those speaks are optimized for full-range, even with the xover they probably have a rising response around the xover point, and will be louder around there anyway. but it's a cheaper approach to just buy something and not cut the tweeter wire and rely on the xover... but it's kinda hack-y.

Tsx536

So those 6x9 woofers. Do you need an amp for them, or do you think they will sound decent using the stock TSX amp.

I think I know your answer, but someone's gotta ask right?

BallsOfSteel

So by your estimation, the MB Quarts would sound better bass wise when compared to the new Alpines because the Alpines has tweets and MB Quarts doesn't?

elduderino

No... you didn't ask me to compare them, btw. Having a tweeter doesn't affect their bass response, of course, it just means I form prejudiced judgements about them, since...

I don't like full-range 6x9's (thought that was pretty plain by now... Hence I don't like those Alpines.

The MBQ aren't designed to be bass-only woofers, but they are designed for a wider freq response than most 6x9s... and I expect their woofer to be better than the Alpine just based on price, as well as tehe fact that I can tell you that with the Best Buy-type business Alpine does, they are optimizing that 6x9 to sound good in a board, not in a car. For a 6x9 to sound loud", it has to have loud midrange. Not the best response for a woofer to have...

BallsOfSteel

Thanks !!! I will purchase the MB Quarts my decision is made.

zazen721

eld... you are by far the most helpful person i have met on these forums... we all thank you!

btw... i am currently waiting to pickup my car from the installation shop... i had them put in jl audio components in the front with the jl audio 450/4 amp and they are going to bridge the rears to the jl audio 10" sub... i am leaving the stock 6x9's in there since i wont hear them anyways... ill let you all know how it goes... the phone should ring any minute..........

any minute now....

Tsx536

Oooo...Ooo...post pics...

jiggaman

what ever happened to bass mechanic?

elduderino

He posted a couple of times since the merger... don't know.

Tsx536

I saw him post here:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21052

Just like Eld mentioned he posted a couple of times since the merger, but hasn't been around the forum very much.

jlukja

I was wondering what ever happened to jiggaman

xaznperswaesonx

450/4??? damn i'm jealous!!!!
if the 6x9 is not being used .. just remove it so you'll get more bass coming in to the car ..

GotdatTSX

So elduderino, would the MBQs be decent with the stock amp? Also, what do you think about the Infinity Kappa series 693.5i (woofer only)?
or

zazen721

yeah the guy talked me into getting the 450/4 instead of 250/1 and 300/4. you think i should remove those speakers?? will there be THAT much of a difference?

elduderino

I think they are too inefficient with the stock amp, honestly. They have a much stiffer suspension and a much heavier cone, and trading them and our avincar brand 6x9 woofers the output difference was very noticable (without changing gains on my amp).

Also, from what I understand the stock amp does not have non-fading bass, when you fade forwards you lose 6x9s. So if you upgrade the fronts and the R deck with less-efficient speakers, you need to disconnect the R ddoors or they overpower everything else.

Kapps, in my experience, are pretty inefficient too. Used to be an Infinity dealer, would not recommend any Kappa driver off of deck power. That 6x9 might be nice, but IMO it needs an amp.

I would politely suggest my avincar brand 6x9 woofers as being efficient enough for that. $90 a pair, if you're interested. I'll post some pics when I get time - nothing breathtaking, metal frame, poly cone with silver fairy dust on it that's supposed to be titanium (and I'm sure there are trace elements in there that CSI could find..., butyl-rubber type surround, vented pole piece on the back for cooling, bumped back plate for more throw.

I've got some people interested in them and I'll post pics soon, and get back to the PM's now that they are in stock.

BallsOfSteel

Will the MBQs sound better then the OEM's powered by the stock amp even though you suggest upgrading the amp to get the better sound?

elduderino

If they are the only thing you changed in the system, then the woofers are now much quieter than they were, relative to your mids and tweeters. So even if they are more accurate at low levels (and I think they would be) they would be so quiet relative to the mids and tweets that to a listener the bass would not sound good.

What are you trying to do? Remember, better speakers as a rule are less efficient, and we have an ~18W amp per channel. Maybe.

BallsOfSteel

Sale on http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...962927282&rd=1

Any remarks? Is this a good deal?

elduderino

Confucious said "three-way 6x9s are NEVER a good deal"...

Playa178

Ive read a lot of the posts in here and am intrigued.

If I put in say a good 5 1/4" component set up front (A/D/S 2 series for example), a decent 5 1/4" or 6 1/2" mid or coax in the rear doors, and a pair of the MBQ 6x9 woofers, and let's say a 300/4 amp.

I would wire the front components parallell with the rear mids or coax to the front channels with high pass and the rear channels to the 6x9 woofers with low pass (I would assume at a freq around 300 hz?)

This would actually sound good? It's not a very cost effective way but I like the idea of not having anything showing (like a box) or losing my spare tire to add a sub. Also the 300/4 will fit under the seat.

Luckily I'm close enough to Jersey to have street effectz do this install since they seem to understand the way our systems work.

Does this all sound good?

jlukja

Congrats on becoming "Official Vendor"

elduderino

Well, of course it sounds good to me: )

I think my car sounds pretty darn good. It doesn't have the bottom half-octave that a sub would, but it's still pretty darn good.

If you are dead-set on the R doors, I'd suggest a 5-channel amp that sums the F and R inputs so you have bass regardless of the fader setting. But for that budgatary amount, I would rather go with the 300/4, and the a/d/s/ 3-series components up front (same tweet but better xover and aluminum-cone mid with more travel), and bail on the R doors : )

What do you think, Ron?

elduderino

TY... now I have to tone down my "Jane, you ignorant slut" routine...: )

Playa178

Would the dedicated sub channel sound good running a pair of 6x9 mids? I had a pair of 325i/s components in my first car back in 94, amazing stuff. Wish I still had them (not to mention the PH15.2 I had running the car).

There'd be no way to run the R stock speakers in this configuration correct? Cost isnt really an issue as much as sound quality and install quality. I am not into booming bass, I listen to all kinds of music and just want as little distortion as possible.

Any suggestion on an amp?

elduderino

With a 4-channel amp, you could only run the R door speaks either in parallel with the fronts (bad idea) or off of the OEM amp (possible, been done, but you start to run out of channels of HU output and I personally don't find it worth the amount of work).

The current 3-series kit, according to JD the guy who managed their development, is a better tweeter than they've had for years and sounds great. I've also heard others who've heard them in his car with a Sony ES system and who were very impressed, and I look forwards to getting my first shipment of a/d/s/ speakers in the first week of April.

Their amps are gone for now because Directed didn't ahve enough engineering resources...: (

I am not a HUGE fan of running the 6x9 woofers on the mono channel - those woofers in the TSX are so far apart I would want them in stereo - but since I run them like 75 and down, it's not a huge deal, I guess. I can order some 8-ohm 6x9 subs from Genesis for that application... but they retail for like $400 a pair.

Wish you could hear our car...

Rear fill? I don't need no stinkin' rear fill : )

Playa178

Wow thats a lot to take in, so in reality, I need 6 channels of amplification with crossovers on each channel?

High pass to front seperates, bandpass mid range to rear doors (i like some rear fill), and low pass around 300hz for the 6x9 woofers?

Maybe I'll look for a PH15 on ebay haha, I loved that amp to death but it did have 6 RCA inputs and according to your thread our head unit only has 4. Guess Street Effectz could do a Y adaptor to get what I need.

Any other 6 channel amp recommendations?

elduderino

6-channel amps have like disappeared. I think JL has an "e" series amp that's 4-channel. e6450? I think you can make a bracket for the amp in the trunk below the R deck to the L of the nav unit (if you have it).

Any way to get you to try a system without R fill? tweeters, 6" mids, 6x9s? Four-channel amp?

When your soft dome tweets are in the dash and play down to 2200, the R passengers hear them just fine (I've verified this in our car over and over - in the back seat of our TSX you do not miss R fill whatsoever... : )

Playa178

I've just never been happy with a system without rear fill (mids). I certainly dont like highs coming from back there but the door location should provide good fill for midrange. Infinity seems to make a 6 channel amp that will work great. Ideally 8 channels of amplification would be best with electronic crossovers to each speaker and that way I could tailor the tweets level coming off the dash.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...762318189&rd=1

Check that amp out, I'm sure its not too great but its specs and crossovers seem to fit what I am looking for. Any idea of a good pair of mids for the rear? Are 5 1/4's more suited for fitment than 6 1/2's in the F and R doors?

elduderino

oversize 6.5's can have trouble, and you have to build/use a spacer ring for anything you use, 5 or 6... but many 6"s you can get in there without any cutting...

As far as the amp goes, the JL is basically going for the same price on eBay, so beween the two I'd go JL.

Playa178

I agree the JL is a superior amp but it doesnt offer the 6 channels of amplification Im looking for. Ill have to contact street effectz and see how much an install like this will cost.