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An email allegedly sent by Elon Musk to Tesla staff has announced that the Model 3, which has faced a number of production issues, will go into “24/7” production by June, resulting in 6,000 Model 3 units made per week. The email was obtained by Jalopnik, and also includes Musk’s thoughts on a number of other topics including the company’s financials, manufacturing tolerances, and even how excessive meetings are “the blight of big companies.” You can read the full email below:
Progress
First, congratulations are in order! We have now completed our third full week of producing over 2000 Model 3 vehicles. The first week was 2020, the second was 2070 and we just completed 2250 last week, along with 2000 Model S/X vehicles.
This is more than double Tesla’s weekly production rate last year and an amazing feat in the face of many challenges! It is extremely rare for an automotive company to grow the production rate by over 100% from one year to the next. Moreover, there has simultaneously been a significant improvement in quality and build accuracy, which is reflected in positive owner feedback.
Starting today at Giga and tomorrow at Fremont, we will be stopping for three to five days to do a comprehensive set of upgrades. This should set us up for Model 3 production of 3000 to 4000 per week next month.
Another set of upgrades starting in late May should be enough to unlock production capacity of 6000 Model 3 vehicles per week by the end of June. Please note that all areas of Tesla and our suppliers will be required to demonstrate a Model 3 capacity of ~6000/week by building 850 sets of car parts in 24 hours no later than June 30th.
Any Tesla department or supplier that is unable to do this will need to have a very good explanation why not, along with a plan for fixing the problem and present that to me directly. If anyone needs help achieving this, please let me know as soon as possible. We are going to find a way or make a way to get there.
The reason that the burst-build target rate is 6000 and not 5000 per week in June is that we cannot have a number with no margin for error across thousands of internally and externally produced parts and processes, amplified by a complex global logistics chain. Actual production will move as fast as the least lucky and least well-executed part of the entire Tesla production/supply chain system.
By having a Model 3 subsystem burst-build requirement of 6k by the end of June, we will lay the groundwork for achieving a steady 6k/week across the whole Model 3 system a few months later.
As part of the drive towards 6k, all Model 3 production at Fremont will move to 24/7operations. This means that we will be adding another shift to general assembly, body and paint. Please refer anyone you know who you think meets the Tesla bar for talent, drive and trust. Between Fremont and Giga, Tesla will be adding about 400 people per week for several weeks.
Precision
Most of the design tolerances of the Model 3 are already better than any other car in the world. Soon, they will all be better. This is not enough. We will keep going until the Model 3 build precision is a factor of ten better than any other car in the world. I am not kidding.
Our car needs to be designed and built with such accuracy and precision that, if an owner measures dimensions, panel gaps and flushness, and their measurements don’t match the Model 3 specs, it just means that their measuring tape is wrong.
Some parts suppliers will be unwilling or unable to achieve this level of precision. I understand that this will be considered an unreasonable request by some. That’s ok, there are lots of other car companies with much lower standards. They just can’t work with Tesla.
Profit
A fair criticism leveled at Tesla by outside critics is that you’re not a real company unless you generate a profit, meaning simply that revenue exceeds costs. It didn’t make sense to do that until reaching economies of scale, but now we are there.
Going forward, we will be far more rigorous about expenditures. I have asked the Tesla finance team to comb through every expense worldwide, no matter how small, and cut everything that doesn’t have a strong value justification.
All capital or other expenditures above a million dollars, or where a set of related expenses may accumulate to a million dollars over the next 12 months, should be considered on hold until explicitly approved by me. If you are the manager responsible, please make sure you have a detailed, first principles understanding of the supplier quote, including every line item of parts & labor, before we meet.
I have been disappointed to discover how many contractor companies are interwoven throughout Tesla. Often, it is like a Russian nesting doll of contractor, subcontractor, sub-subcontractor, etc. before you finally find someone doing actual work. This means a lot of middle-managers adding cost but not doing anything obviously useful. Also, many contracts are essentially open time & materials, not fixed price and duration, which creates an incentive to turn molehills into mountains, as they never want to end the money train.
There is a very wide range of contractor performance, from excellent to worse than a drunken sloth. All contracting companies should consider the coming week to be a final opportunity to demonstrate excellence. Any that fail to meet the Tesla standard of excellence will have their contracts ended on Monday.
Btw, here are a few productivity recommendations:
– Excessive meetings are the blight of big companies and almost always get worse over time. Please get of all large meetings, unless you’re certain they are providing value to the whole audience, in which case keep them very short.
– Also get rid of frequent meetings, unless you are dealing with an extremely urgent matter. Meeting frequency should drop rapidly once the urgent matter is resolved.
– Walk out of a meeting or drop off a call as soon as it is obvious you aren’t adding value. It is not rude to leave, it is rude to make someone stay and waste their time.
– Don’t use acronyms or nonsense words for objects, software or processes at Tesla. In general, anything that requires an explanation inhibits communication. We don’t want people to have to memorize a glossary just to function at Tesla.
– Communication should travel via the shortest path necessary to get the job done, not through the “chain of command”. Any manager who attempts to enforce chain of command communication will soon find themselves working elsewhere.
– A major source of issues is poor communication between depts. The way to solve this is allow free flow of information between all levels. If, in order to get something done between depts, an individual contributor has to talk to their manager, who talks to a director, who talks to a VP, who talks to another VP, who talks to a director, who talks to a manager, who talks to someone doing the actual work, then super dumb things will happen. It must be ok for people to talk directly and just make the right thing happen.
– In general, always pick common sense as your guide. If following a “company rule” is obviously ridiculous in a particular situation, such that it would make for a great Dilbert cartoon, then the rule should change.
If there is something you think should be done to make Tesla execute better or allow you to look forward to coming to work more (same thing in the long term), please send a note to emdesk@tesla.com.
Thanks for being such a kickass team and accomplishing miracles every day. It matters. We are burning the midnight oil to burn the midnight oil.
Saw a Tesla 3 for the first time, owner vehicle. Looked at it briefly but overall I like the exterior styling but not a fan of the center only display.
Panel gaps and build quality were also very good.
I've only seen one so far, passing me in another lane of oncoming traffic going the other direction. The tech (and torque!) is great (except for the autonomous functions), but I'm not really that impressed with the styling of either the Model S or the 3. Meh.
Any time someone tries to demonstrate how the touch screen works to control everything, they look insane. There is seriously no way a driver should be messaging with that giant attached touchscreen while driving. There are simply way too many clicks.
^ That is a major concern, currently we have a 2017 CRV, 2005 TL, 2003 Pilot. and 1996 Accord.
The 2017 CRV is the most fun to play with but also the most dangerous as it diverts attention while driving.
The 1996 Accord is the simplest to drive and use.
Not sure what the Tesla X resolution is on the display but the overall color/resolution/contrast/intensity is absolutely amazing.
Played around with it (while at a statis display) and it's response time, touch screen precision, and graphics are second to none.
^ That is a major concern, currently we have a 2017 CRV, 2005 TL, 2003 Pilot. and 1996 Accord.
The 2017 CRV is the most fun to play with but also the most dangerous as it diverts attention while driving.
The 1996 Accord is the simplest to drive and use.
Not sure what the Tesla X resolution is on the display but the overall color/resolution/contrast/intensity is absolutely amazing.
Played around with it (while at a statis display) and it's response time, touch screen precision, and graphics are second to none.
Our 2016 CR-V is basically the same, but at least you get a ton of info on your dashboard. The Model 3 has none of that.
On Saturday night Tesla CEO Elon Musk made a few announcements via Twitter about new options for the Tesla Model 3. Specifically, the CEO said that in July the Model 3 would be available with options for a dual-motor and all-wheel drive. On a normal Model 3, that addition will come at a cost of $5,000.
Musk also announced a "performance" Model 3, which will also have dual-motor, all-wheel drive. That model will cost $78,000. What you get for all that extra cash will be the ability to go 0 to 60 miles per hour in 3.5 seconds, with 155 mph top speed and at range of 310 miles. "Cost of all options, wheels, paint, etc is included (apart from Autopilot)," Musk tweeted.
In 2016, Tesla announced similar upgrades for the the Model S and Model X in the P100D version. The Model S P100D offered 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds and a 315-mile range. The Model X had a similar option available, though the heavier car went from 0 to 60 in 2.9 seconds and had a 289-mile range. Upgrading those already-pricy cars cost $10,000 at the time. In November 2017, Tesla announced a new Roadster that it says will take 1.9 seconds to go from 0 to 60 miles per hour, with a 620-mile range. That performance vehicle has yet to make it to production.
A non-performance Model 3 with the dual-motor setup will be able to go 0 to 60 in 4.5 seconds, Musk said. It will also have a top speed of 140 mph and a range of 310 miles.
The dual-motor announcement comes as the one-year anniversary of the Model 3's launch approaches. It's been a rocky year, with Musk admitting early on that his California and Nevada factories were in "production hell" as quarter after quarter slipped by with disappointing Model 3 production numbers. Only recently has the company been able to push out a significant number of cars per week, although investors have remained wary of Musk's often overly-optimistic projections.
In a response to a question on Twitter about the dual-motor configuration, Musk noted that the vehicle will have an AC induction front motor and a switched reluctance, partial permanent magnet rear motor. Tesla has avoided relying too much on permanent magnets in its motors, despite the industry trend in favor of the lightweight, powerful component. Permanent magnets are made primarily of rare-Earth minerals, and excessive dependence on them puts automakers at the mercy of nations, like China, that have developed mining operations for those minerals.
"Tesla AWD is dual motor, so you can fully drive the car even if one breaks," Musk said in another tweet. He added that the dual-motor vehicles will have one motor optimized for power and the other optimized for range.
An additional announcement from Musk concerned customer service. "Will soon enable Tesla owners to request service from their phone with a few taps," the CEO tweeted. "Tesla Ranger will come to you to take care of your car. No need to bring the car in yourself & zero paperwork."
Just days after failing to receive a Recommended score in Consumer Reports, the Tesla Model 3 received the Recommended label after improving its braking performance via an over-the-air software update that scrubbed 19 feet from its braking distance. The move was prompted by a harsh review by the consumer product testing organization, which knocked the Model 3 for inconsistent braking performance in instrumented tests. The initial review also criticized the Model 3 for relying on too many screen submenus to achieve simple tasks, as well as a stiff ride, excessive wind noise and an unsupportive rear seat.
"The Tesla’s stopping distance of 152 feet from 60 mph was far worse than any contemporary car we’ve tested and about 7 feet longer than the stopping distance of a Ford F-150 full-sized pickup," Consumer Reports said.
"In our testing of the Model 3, the first stop we recorded was significantly shorter (around 130 feet, similar to Tesla’s findings), but that distance was not repeated, even after we let the brakes cool overnight," the magazine added. "Consumer Reports publishes a distance based on all the stops we record in our test, not just the shortest individual stop."
Tesla immediately promised to address the issue through a software update and apparently was able to do so, scrubbing almost 20 feet from the braking distances of all Model 3s."I’ve been at CR for 19 years and tested more than 1,000 cars, and I’ve never seen a car that could improve its track performance with an over-the-air update," Jake Fisher, director of auto testing at Consumer Reports, said in response to the update.
"The improved braking distances raised the Model 3’s Overall Score enough for the car to be recommended by CR, but our testers had other areas of concern as well," Consumer Reports wrote. "They found issues with the Model 3’s wind noise, stiff ride, and uncomfortable rear seat."
In regards to the other criticisms of the Model 3, Elon Musk said other changes were already being implemented following Consumer Reports' initial test.
"Really appreciate the high-quality critical feedback from Consumer Reports,” Musk tweeted this week. "Road noise and ride comfort already addressed too."
The major issue with this "update" is that it simultaneously highlights gaps in the Model 3's market readiness, while also casting doubt on other systems that have avoided Consumer Reports' scorn.
First, if the disparity in braking distance was so obvious to Consumer Reports and other publications, why didn't Tesla detect it in its own testing and calibrate the ABS braking system and other systems to compensate for it? Unfavorable braking distance performance seems like something that should have popped up earlier, not 10 months into production.
Second, the type of braking performance that was corrected was likely done for dry surfaces alone so it could have come at the expense of braking performance on all other types of surfaces, such as those covered with snow, ice, gravel, or different pavement types. 19 feet is a lot of distance to be able to cut from a car's braking distance in a matter of days via some code, and it suggests that something may not have been right to begin with, or that something significant may have been traded to make this happen, such as brake pad life or exceeding tire performance parameters by some amount. The fact that Tesla can swing braking distance either way in just a matter of days with some software code after being shamed by a critical article suggests engineering decisions that are too hasty for their own good and may not have been properly tested by Tesla prior to their rollout.
"The fact that Tesla engineers were able to slash nearly 20 feet of stopping distance in a couple of days is a sign that there was something fundamentally broken in what they were doing," Sam Abuelsamid, senior analyst at Navigant Research, noted in Forbes magazine this week.
Third, this raises questions about just how much testing and validation Tesla actually did before shipping the first cars to consumers. Surely engineers would have noticed, had they done extensive braking tests on various surfaces and with various hardware, that braking performance was inconsistent and also too long. This is not something that should have been discovered by a magazine almost a year after production began.
Finally, even if the issue of braking distance was addressed by an over-the-air update, what other critical systems could be underperforming? Thankfully, Tesla did not introduce significant changes to other driving functions in response to Consumer Reports' article, such as steering response -- this sort of thing could surprise owners. But it did indicate that it was still sorting out ride quality settings.
Overall, Tesla's response to this mini-crisis raises more questions than it answers, and even though Tesla was able to dramatically improve braking performance, the timeline and circumstances of this action, as well as what prompted it, raise several troubling questions about the Model 3's engineering process and preproduction testing. If one publication, one which Tesla views as favorable (or at least neutral) can get Tesla to make significant performance changes to a car's braking distance in a matter of days after discovering significant underperformance, this says more about the Model 3's initial readiness for the market than for Tesla's savvy crisis response tactics.
Gross margin does not include the costs of selling or designing the Model 3. Those costs are reported in SG&A and R&D, respectively, and increase the loss per car.
After spacex, the truck and the roadster, Elon will need to find something else to divert the public's attention from this disaster coming.
Tesla has begun production on the dual-motor Tesla Model 3. It only took 3 weeks to produce the all-new assembly line for the Model 3, according to Tesla CEO Elon Musk.
Musk announced the news on Twitter earlier this week.
Amazing work by Tesla team. Built entire new general assembly line in 3 weeks w minimal resources. Love u guys so much! Pic of 1st Model 3 dual motor performance coming off the line
The higher-performance version of the dual-motor, all-wheel-drive Tesla Model 3 will hit 60 mph in 3.5 seconds, the automaker says. Another variant, however, will take 4.5 seconds to reach 60 mph. It will also have a top speed of 140 mph, whereas the new performance version will reach 155 mph. Both versions will boast a range of 310 miles per charge.
Tesla has now cut 9 percent of its workforce; however, production of the Model 3 will not be affected. Musk wrote in a company email revealed earlier this month, “We have made the difficult decision to let go of approximately 9% of our colleagues across the company.”
I drove the regular, 271-hp, rear-wheel-drive Tesla Model 3 a few months ago and liked it. It was pretty quick and seemed to handle well enough. But I didn’t walk away from it thinking, “Gosh, if only it had more performance.” Well, Tesla has given the Model 3 more performance anyway -- quite a bit more, dubbing the new trim level, creatively, the “Model 3 Performance.” I would have named it Squealing Weasel, or Tiger of Torque, or Da Angry Badger or something. But Tesla is a Silicon Valley tech company, so I guess “Performance” is acceptable for a trim level name.
The new model promises a top speed of 155 mph and a 0-60 time of just 3.5 seconds, both on the same 75-kWh battery that gives the same 310-mile EPA range as the other Model 3s. So it’s better before it even gets off the spec sheet. Compare those numbers to the non-Performance Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive Model 3, which tops out at “only” 145 mph and takes a full 4.5 seconds to get to 60; and the Rear-Wheel Drive Model 3 I drove seven months ago that hits a paltry 140 mph tops and gets to 60 in a leisurely 5.1 seconds.
The newest 3 is smaller, lighter and more nimble than the Model S flagship, making it –- potentially -- the Best Tesla you can buy (though the larger Model S, with more batteries to draw from, does get to 60 in 2.5 seconds, so you have to arrange your priorities for what constitutes “best”). Elon Musk The Great and Powerful has tweeted that the Model 3 Performance will beat a BMW M3 around a race track. So it sounds like a significant car.
We are, unfortunately, short on specifics though. Not a lot of technical details outlining the exact differences between the Performance model and the AWD and RWD Models 3 are out yet. The Tesla Model 3 Performance sedan I drove was among the very first to roll off the assembly line in Fremont, well ahead of any detailed spec sheets. It was trucked down to Los Angeles and plopped into the Tesla showroom in the high-fashion Westfield Century City shopping mall, next door to (I am not making this up) a Kim Kardashian makeup portal that actually charges (I looked it up) $150 for makeup kits that would make you look good enough to meet and marry your own Kanye West (oh if only!). So there were no engineers around, no JB Straubel, for instance, and the handful of salespeople milling about anxiously in fashionable buttoned-up saleswear were enthusiastic about selling WestSiders a new Tesla, but I got the impression they might not have known an 18650 cell from a $18 Peach Crème KKW Lipstick tube (another Kim Kardashian item).
Actually, the Model 3 doesn’t use 18650 batteries anymore (18 mm in diameter, 65 mm high; no one knows where the zero comes from on the end, according to Musk). All Model 3s are now powered by a tray of 2170 cells, larger and more power-dense than the 18650.
The Model 3 Performance has dual motors, one driving the front wheels and another driving the rears. Combined, the two motors make 335 kW, or 450 hp. For comparison, the base Model 3 has one motor that makes 271 hp, and the dual-motor Model 3 has two that combine for 346. So the 450-hp Model 3 Performance is definitely a big step up. The additional power comes from what Tesla calls, without elaboration, “more capable inverters.”
Controlling all that power on its way to the wheels is a new vehicle dynamic control (VDC) system. Tesla no longer uses Bosch VDC but has instead made its own. Tesla says this allows engineers to more precisely tune the distribution of torque front and rear as well as side-to-side. Tesla is proud of its all-wheel drive system.
“Tesla’s Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive offers the best traction in the automotive industry, with the ability to transfer torque in milliseconds,” crows a company statement. “Model 3 Performance leverages the grip of Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive and the instant torque of our electric motors to bring supercar acceleration to an efficient, practical vehicle without a supercar price tag. This performance is achieved without any impact to range.”
The Model 3 Performance isn’t just about straightline acceleration, either. The suspension is lowered while tires are Michelin Pilot Sport 4S all around. Base level wheels for the Performance trim are 18s, but 20s are available.
The Model 3 Performance’s optional $5,000 “Performance Upgrade” package includes: 20” performance wheels, “performance” brakes with lightweight two-piece rotors to improve heat management, carbon fiber spoiler for stability at that 155-mph top speed, that lowered suspension and aluminum alloy pedals with little rubber strips on them. This list raises more questions than it answers, and there are no answers, at least not yet. So we don’t know what Tesla did to the springs and shocks and whether the steering is quicker or the same. Likewise, there is absolutely no indication of what might or might not be in a promised “track mode” setting that is being finalized right now, though that might not even be the name of the little list of promised performance goodies beyond what’s on the car you see here. As Elon Musk might say, “All in good time, my little pretties, all in good time.”
And yes, I did get to drive a Model 3 Performance. Now, you’d think that this would be an insightful experience. I even brought my plug-in Racelogic test device to try a couple 0-60 launches. But nothing went right on my drive. First of all, there is no cigarette lighter into which I could have plugged the handy little accelerometer. There are only USB ports in Teslas. Apparently Tesla owners don’t smoke. Maybe they vape. Who knows? Second, my drive took place in West L.A. during rush hour on a Friday, driving through which is like trying to muscle your way to the stage at a free Cardi B concert.
Nonetheless I tried, first going west on Santa Monica Blvd, then south on Westwood, then giving up on that plan and turning north to try and make Sunset Blvd before my allotted one-hour drive time was up. On the way I found Hilgard Ave., which not only had no cars the moment I drove on it, but some actual curves - two to be exact.
The Performance interior
I dove in, making my Tesla minder giggle and squeak just a little while making the Model 3 Performance perform. It was promising. It feels, as much as I could tell in two turns, like body roll is firmly-controlled, front-rear weight balance is perfect, and the limits of grip are far beyond what Hilgard offered. I turned around and did it again, in the opposite direction, with the same result. No understeer, no oversteer, just straight, true tracking through the turns. Whee!
Acceleration, likewise, is strong; thrilling, even. It’s still unclear whether you have to do that chemically ridiculous 30-minute pre-conditioning drill to get the 3.5-second 0-60 figure, but whatever figure I was experiencing was impressing the heck out of me.
Tesla says that this version of the Model 3 can lap a race track without overheating and shutting down, as the Model S had famously done in previous lapping sessions several years ago. Greater control of all the car’s performance parameters, from torque distribution to battery temperature control, has reportedly been vastly improved in this new-model Model 3. It’s unclear whether a Model 3 Performance could go a race distance, or even a lapping session, but it sounds like it’ll do a couple laps at least. Again, we’ll see.
Of course, none of this comes cheap. While the base Model 3, which doesn't exist but could arrive in customer hands in either six or nine months according to Tesla, starts at $36,000. This model starts at $65,000 and stickered at $79,000 in the fully-optioned car I drove. A BMW M3 about covers that price and performance. But an M3 is a proven commodity, with many generations of happy owners and more than a few lap records. Tesla is constantly developing its cars, sometimes through over-the-air updates when a better software solution comes out. That’s both good and bad.
So far customers seem enthusiastic no matter what happens, cheering on Musk like he’s some kind of cult leader. But if you have to join a cult, 0-60 in 3.5 seconds and a top speed of 155 mph would be a good one to pick.
ON SALE: Now, in limited supply
BASE PRICE: $65,000 (includes destination)
AS TESTED PRICE: $79,000 (includes destination)
POWERTRAIN: Two motors: three-phase, four-pole induction motor (front), permanent magnet motor (rear), awd
OUTPUT: 450 hp, 471 lb-ft (mfg)
CURB WEIGHT: 4,072 pounds
0-60 MPH: 3.5 seconds (mfg.)
FUEL ECONOMY: 310 miles range (EPA), 116 MPGe (EPA)(EPA City/Hwy/Combined)
PROS: Small and powerful
CONS: Same ugly exterior
I love how they keep touting that 310-mile range as though average people would ever get close to that. Run that thing at 80 mph on the freeway in 20-degree weather with the heat running full blast and see how far you actually get.
Still, it is a good looking car on the outside (just like the Model S), it has a lot of neat features, and the performance is obviously quite good. The issues that I have with it are that EV's are still not practical everyday transportation IMO, the dash and center gauge cluster is a complete deal-breaker for me, and even at the advertised price of $35k (which they can't seem to meet anyway) you are still paying a premium for essentially a status symbol. I liken Tesla more to Apple than to any other car manufacturer. I don't think there is a more obstinate and rabid group of fanboys in the car community than that of Tesla's defenders. The Model 3 is a decent enough EV that is priced decently (although the announcement of the $78k model is a clear indication that Tesla has no intention of actually selling the car anywhere near that $35k price) and looks really sharp on the outside, but there are are so many other better options I would go for over the Tesla, and that's not even figuring in the 3 year waiting list! Why wait 3 years for the privilege to buy a Model 3 when I could go down to my local BMW dealer and get a 340i right now? Or hell, even a Genesis G70 or Kia Stinger GT?
The issues that I have with it are that EV's are still not practical everyday transportation IMO,
Thousands of people in LA would disagree with you.
Model 3 needs a HUD imo. Then it would be much more practical. My friend just picked up a S and he is getting a 3 for his fiancé. He said, its not so bad because you learn to trust the a lot of the auto-features making not having an instrument panel right in eye line not as bigof a deal. I know another friend who got the 3 when it first came out...and he just ordered the performance model and ill sell his first one, he loves it so much.
Me...I'm not ready. Maybe for a daily...but since Im not rich I like my big muscly SUV too much.
And the waiting list is not 3 years. If you order a performance model you'll get it in about 2 months. 6-9 for a regular model. None of which is a huge deal. I waited 2 months when I ordered my Challenger. My friend ordered a new M5 in March and it wont be ready until Sept/Oct.
Thousands of people in LA would disagree with you.
Model 3 needs a HUD imo. Then it would be much more practical. My friend just picked up a S and he is getting a 3 for his fiancé. He said, its not so bad because you learn to trust the a lot of the auto-features making not having an instrument panel right in eye line not as bigof a deal. I know another friend who got the 3 when it first came out...and he just ordered the performance model and ill sell his first one, he loves it so much.
Me...I'm not ready. Maybe for a daily...but since Im not rich I like my big muscly SUV too much.
I would argue that thousands of people in LA are simply trendy hipsters that think having a Tesla (along with every new Apple product) punches their ticket into the authentic SoCal clique. My main issue with the Model 3 (or any EV really) as a practical daily is simply due to range-anxiety, the lack of ubiquitous charging stations (outside of urban areas), and charge-times which are several times that of refueling times.
Also, the production numbers have risen dramatically over the last couple of months so the waiting period may indeed be significantly shorter now (though I'm still rather dubious of Musk's actual motivation to sell this car for that touted $35k) but earlier this year, with production at only 1k per week, the waiting list was indeed 2-3 years once you plopped down the $1k deposit.
I would argue that thousands of people in LA are simply trendy hipsters that think having a Tesla (along with every new Apple product) punches their ticket into the authentic SoCal clique. My main issue with the Model 3 (or any EV really) as a practical daily is simply due to range-anxiety, the lack of ubiquitous charging stations (outside of urban areas), and charge-times which are several times that of refueling times.
i would argue that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
LA and much of metropolitan CA is set up for electric cars. New generations of Teslas, Bolts, Leafs etc have made range anxiety a thing of the past and superchargers strategical placed throughout the state and country have made it easy for Tesla owners to make road trips as far as vegas if not across the country.
You can call trendy or hipster hipster if you want but you’ve obviously never sat or commuted in La traffic.
i would argue that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
LA and much of metropolitan CA is set up for electric cars. New generations of Teslas, Bolts, Leafs etc have made range anxiety a thing of the past and superchargers strategical placed throughout the state and country have made it easy for Tesla owners to make road trips as far as vegas if not across the country.
You can call trendy or hipster hipster if you want but you’ve obviously never sat or commuted in La traffic.
I lived in West Hollywood for over a year (commuted to Crescent Heights and Wilshire everyday). And just so you know, there are actually quite a LOT of places outside of southern CA....
I lived in West Hollywood for over a year (commuted to Crescent Heights and Wilshire everyday). And just so you know, there are actually quite a LOT of places outside of southern CA....
oh i know. Ive probably lived in more of them than you...
Then you know that I'm right about the considerable lack of EV recharging infrastructure in most areas, especially non-urban areas then. I live directly between Savannah, GA and Jacksonville, FL and i can't think of a single recharging station between those two cities. Obviously home-charging is a thing and I imagine in theory that should cover most of the everyday charging needs, but personally I find myself forgetting to charge my phone overnight more often than I'd like and that is a huge inconvenience. I can only imagine the day I were to walk out to my car and realize I have no way to get to work because I forgot to charge the car or didn't connect the cable securely or the power went out or whatever.
You also haven't addressed the charging time issue I brought up which is another major concern I have with EV's in terms of practicality. Even super charging stations are no where near as fast as pumping gas and something like 30 minutes to charge would be a major inconvenience for me considering I can fill my Genesis to the brim in about a tenth of the time. All and all, owning an EV is certainly not completely impractical in today's world, but it certainly is a lot less convenient than owning an ICE vehicle and that is just a fact. There are also the other concerns such as battery longevity, safety in a crash where the battery gets punctured, the effect daily charging has on on your power bill, resale value, the upcoming phase out of tax exemptions, etc.
If you love Tesla and want to get one then knock yourself out; I'm not saying people can't have different opinions than I do, but for me personally there are just too many other cars out there that I would rather buy and for a lot less $$$.
I have no great love of Tesla nor have I said I did. But I see where the future and trend of automotive tech is headed. And I have nothing against it. And many major metropolitan areas are set up for or setting up for EV compatibility. Los Angeles, San Diego, San Fran. Major cities among others that are very EV friendly.
Charge times. Not great but supercharger tech for road trips are breaking new grounds. And all those “inconvenient” concerns you’re listing...you still reading articles from when the model S first debuted? Punctured battery packs..yawn. Resale value? In areas where they are popular (LA) they values are holding. Much like hybrids did. Power bill...neglible. Even less for those who also have moved to solar. When the tax rebates run out I predict there will be a lull but only briefly. The snowball is already rolling.
Nevermind the fact most people going ev get one as a commuter/daily driver still have another vehicle for longer road trips if need be. Or the cost to rent a car is negligible because of cheap it is for them to own EV. I do have some friends who have gone or are going full EV.
But it as I mentioned when I specified LA. You’re free to have your opinion but while you’re stuck between two large redneck cities (and I lived just outside Savannah) that maybe aren’t in the swing of EV yet. There are plenty of other places that are embracing it and it IS a very viable option for some at this point in time.
1 thing about charging is, as more and more EV cars on the road and + the limited # of stations + the limited # of charging spots + the time it actually takes to charge - if this is the future, then they need to build A LOT more spots or they need to reduce the time it takes to charge to a "reasonable" time. Or the line is going to be nightmare.
As of right now, it is OK. since most of the people only use EV for their daily commute and they charge at home and they usually have a 2nd gas powered car at home. But in the future when there are more EV cars than gas cars on the road. the current infrastructure is not gonna work.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 08-01-2018 at 12:05 PM.
1 thing about charging is, as more and more EV cars on the road and + the limited # of stations + the limited # of charging spots + the time it actually takes to charge - if this is the future, then they need to build A LOT more spots or they need to reduce the time it takes to charge to a "reasonable" time. Or the line is going to be nightmare.
As of right now, it is OK. since most of the people only use EV for their daily commute and they charge at home and they usually have a 2nd gas powered car at home. But in the future when there are more EV cars than gas cars on the road. the current infrastructure is not gonna work.
I think its all being built with expansion in mind. When this all started parking places had 1 or 2 charging stations. Now many have 5+ depending on size and location. And I’ve started seeing street parking charging stations in certain places.
Keep in mind that simply building more charge stations is only a fraction of the logistical concern if we are talking about embracing a full switchover to EV's. As-is, the entire power grid of the US is already at max capacity with rolling brownouts a common occurrence in many areas. If everyone were to switch over to EV's tomorrow the power grid would completely collapse and that is just a reality. So when you talk about infrastructure improvements that will make mass-market EV's a staple of modern transportation, keep in mind that simply replacing all gas stations with recharge stations is actually the least of the hurdles to be faced. The fact that the same people who are pushing for universal EV adoption also want to get rid of all fossil-fuel burning power plants as well, so there's that issue to consider in addition.
Also big oil companies and their lobbyist will have to give in... you know a lot of what we do is based on what the riches want..... logic is their 2nd priority behind $$.
Then you know that I'm right about the considerable lack of EV recharging infrastructure in most areas, especially non-urban areas then. I live directly between Savannah, GA and Jacksonville, FL and i can't think of a single recharging station between those two cities. Obviously home-charging is a thing and I imagine in theory that should cover most of the everyday charging needs, but personally I find myself forgetting to charge my phone overnight more often than I'd like and that is a huge inconvenience. I can only imagine the day I were to walk out to my car and realize I have no way to get to work because I forgot to charge the car or didn't connect the cable securely or the power went out or whatever.
You also haven't addressed the charging time issue I brought up which is another major concern I have with EV's in terms of practicality. Even super charging stations are no where near as fast as pumping gas and something like 30 minutes to charge would be a major inconvenience for me considering I can fill my Genesis to the brim in about a tenth of the time. All and all, owning an EV is certainly not completely impractical in today's world, but it certainly is a lot less convenient than owning an ICE vehicle and that is just a fact. There are also the other concerns such as battery longevity, safety in a crash where the battery gets punctured, the effect daily charging has on on your power bill, resale value, the upcoming phase out of tax exemptions, etc.
If you love Tesla and want to get one then knock yourself out; I'm not saying people can't have different opinions than I do, but for me personally there are just too many other cars out there that I would rather buy and for a lot less $$$.
There are plenty of charging stations between Savanah and Jacksonville.
Charging time is still a issue, but infrastructure cost and environmental factors of electric charging stations are far easier than gas stations.
Reason why they are sprouting up everywhere in urban areas.
Originally Posted by majin ssj eric
Keep in mind that simply building more charge stations is only a fraction of the logistical concern if we are talking about embracing a full switchover to EV's. As-is, the entire power grid of the US is already at max capacity with rolling brownouts a common occurrence in many areas. If everyone were to switch over to EV's tomorrow the power grid would completely collapse and that is just a reality. So when you talk about infrastructure improvements that will make mass-market EV's a staple of modern transportation, keep in mind that simply replacing all gas stations with recharge stations is actually the least of the hurdles to be faced. The fact that the same people who are pushing for universal EV adoption also want to get rid of all fossil-fuel burning power plants as well, so there's that issue to consider in addition.
The US has a electrical energy capacity surplus (natural gas, wind, and solar helped reduce plant development) so much so that coal powerplants are being retired sooner rather than later.
The reduction of electrical power demand growth is actually causing problems for many utility companies around the US.
I seriously doubt there is any problem with bringing in more electrical power to charge electric vehicles whether at home or in public.
Electric cars are coming, the battery tech is the last remaining hurdle which is slowly being overcome.
Renault estimates by 2027, a electric vehicle cost will be the same for a comparable gas vehicle.
It's going to make the world overall a better place in terms of environmental impact.
04-18-2018, 09:17 AM
moar model 3s!!
to me.
I have no great love of Tesla nor have I said I did. But I see where the future and trend of automotive tech is headed. And I have nothing against it. And many major metropolitan areas are set up for or setting up for EV compatibility. Los Angeles, San Diego, San Fran. Major cities among others that are very EV friendly.
