We know there isn't a manual transmission 2021 Type S coming. This kind of poll is of course skewed on an enthusiast site. If they did have one would you buy it? Would you pay extra for it?

 

Yes, I would, and no, I wouldn't pay extra for it.

However, it's not happening. Too few would buy.

 

I have long said if manufacturers would charge extra for manual transmissions, they'd sell more. That way, if "Jones" next door wanted to show off his new ride and say, "Yup, she's got all the bells and whistles!" he'd have to have paid more for the third pedal under the dash.

Needless to say, I'd happily pay more for a manual.

 

I will abstain as this isn't the market segment I'm interested in. If it was, any manual cars would shoot up to the top of the list and take precedence over anything not available with a manual.

To support manual transmissions, I bought my BRZ new despite greatly preferring used. A small price to pay initially, as for enthusiast models it will likely have better resale down the line.

That said, I don't see a manual happening.

 

Its ridiculous to charge more for a manual when it's the cheaper option and always has been. It's cheaper to maintain and cheaper to build. Why would anybody pay more for that? A manual has always been $1500-$2000 cheaper.

 

Incorrect, it is far from cheaper. It used to be cheaper because the transmission itself was less expensive to build and because the take rate was high enough to justify the extra development and certification expenses. Now however, unless you're talking about a GTI or Miata or a few others, the take rate doesn't justify the extra expense, hence the fact, it is NOT cheaper to design and build a car with a manual transmission.

 

Yeah, I'm not saying a manual is possible. We know that's not the case. This is just a question IF they offered it, would they sell? We know it's not a money making proposition for them given the take rate.

 

With this stipulation in mind, I voted maybe. There is no car I would vote "yes, without hesitation" mainly because I'm neurotic about not wanting to buy a 1st model year of anything.

In my mind, a TLX Type-S with a manual would leapfrog even anything the Germans have to offer. I have more faith in Acura to put together a better combination of reliability, fun to drive, and cost of ownership.

The last 3-series that interested me was the E90. Audi makes great all around vehicles, but still aren't as engaging as I'd like. Mercedes is a non-starter due to no manual.

Genesis not offering a manual with the 3.3T is annoying, but not surprising. Even Cadillac dropped their manuals

 

What's incorrect? A Manual transmission is still cheaper and far less complicated than Modern Automatics. You can still get Manual M3's and Porches and they are Cheaper than their Fancy PDK and Dual Clutch Auto versions so I'm not sure where you're getting your information.

 

@Kense, you do understand the cost of the physical transmission is only a small portion of the cost of developing, building, marketing, and supporting a car with a manual gearbox; don't you? Like I wrote before, the cost of the transmission is incidental; overall, it costs much more these days to build a car with a manual transmission when amortized over the number of units actually built and sold.

 

Here's a good article about the state of the manual transmission, which explains that each powertrain certification costs about $1 million. Certification costs plus low take rates equals fewer manuals.

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2...-transmission/

 

Crazy that Jaguar was still offering the F-Type with a manual even though take rate was less than 5%

Unfortunately it's easier for a true luxury/performance make like Porsche to offer a manual, as they can amortize the costs through their ridiculously priced options even if take rate was lower. They don't nickel and dime you, they Grant and Franklin you.

 

What you described is the variable cost of producing a car with a manual transmission. All things equal, the unit cost probably is cheaper. However, given that the development cost and associated tooling for the automatic gets to be amortized over a massive amount of cars, whereas the development cost and associated tooling for the manual gets amortized over a much smaller number of cars, the true cost for a manual variant is typically much higher than that of the automatic. That's not even factoring in economies of scale that the automatic would benefit from. If they're selling manuals at the same price (or less) than that of the automatic, it means all the buyers of the automatic version is effectively subsidizing the fixed costs for the people buying the manual version.

 

It's more than the cost of tooling to make the manuals and the added test costs. It is differences in trim pieces, maintenance procedures, service training, spare parts, marketing costs, supporting more SKUs in their systems. Cars like Porsche and the Miata and others with a much higher take rate can justify these costs.

 

Like some of you have said, a manual would shoot a TLX near the top of my shopping list. I've had my 08TL-S 6spd 12 years now and I think had it not been for the manual it wouldn't be in the garage right now. Maybe it's something about the 3rd gen, but the car I had before was an 01CL-S (Auto) , great car, but I was never attached to it. As soon as I was able to afford / justify to get out of it, I did. I believe a lot of that is my involvement with the car and I think the manual transmission really helps with that. I also like the driving position and aesthetics of the 3rd gen TL, but at the same time, I also find the 2nd Gen TLX very pretty. I have not driven one, and honestly, I'm not going to bother.

Going back to the manual transmission, again like others have said, the low sales numbers on stick shift cars, combine with the R&D needed to build a transmission that can last in this HP race, many manufacturers opted to drop the manual transmission option. I think the Porsche GT3 is the only one that's selling a decent % of manual cars, if memory serves me right Audi R8 were selling less than 5% manual cars before they dropped it.

 

Volkswagen says the GTI take rate for manual transmissions is nearly 50%.

 

The polling results are sad.

 

That's pretty impressive! I would be curious to see that broken up by country. My neighbor and 1 more I know have a manual GTI, I didn't drive them as I don't like driving others cars, but riding around in them, they are pretty awesome! I would certainly consider a manual GTI over a TLX auto.
The only TLX auto I would remotely consider is if they did a really nice looking wagon. I wish they had made a Manual V6 SH-AWD TSX wagon.

Amen!

 

I used to lust after BMW, and I was hoping to one day get one, but after watching several youtube channels their long term maintenance and reliability is a bit of a concern. I tend to buy something I like and hang onto it for a long time. Out of my 3 cars, one I've had 12 years, the other 10 years. (the 3rd car is only 2 years old, but I do hope to keep it a long time as well). I just don't feel like I could do that with a BMW, Audi or Benz. Acura could have been a real contender with a manual (probably awd, since they won't do a rwd) sedan. A wagon beyond fantasy.

 

What I should have said is, VW is on record as saying the manual take rate for the GTI and Golf-R is nearly 50% here in the United States.

 

I've had two BMWs and my son has had two more; all four cars were models of reliability and longevity. As with many cars, properly maintained, most BMWs will easily see the far side of a quarter of a million miles; that said, the aforementioned maintenance isn't exactly inexpensive.

 

Definitely not happening:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/am...-discontinued/

@neuronbob looks like you have a collector's item now

 

Honda doing all they can to make sure nothing steals the TLX Type S’s sports sedan thunder.

 

Idea for a new cottage industry...

Offer to retrofit the new TLX Type-S models with the 6MT from a 4G TL. Yeah, the conversion may cost an easy $5,000, but I'd pay it in a heart-beat.

 

No lawd no! Why???? Just kidding. So damn, I have one of the rarest Hondas now. I'd better stop driving it right now.

 

All the anecdotes from people I know have steered me away from BMWs, at least for long-term ownership.

We had an E90 with a myriad of electrical issues. No preventative maintenance would have helped those. Interior also didn't hold up very well. Liked the way it drove, but it was a to be honest.

My brother had a Mini Cooper JCW, one of the funnest cars I have ever driven. Luckily it had an extended warranty, but it went through 2 superchargers and 3 window motor/regulators in I think 4-5 years. The car only has 2 power windows...

 

I'm glad to hear you've had a good experience with BMW, my father in-law has an E39 530i sport and so far that car has been good, but he maintains it extremely well. Always been garage kept, low miles.

Continuing from above, but moving more towards the experience you've had, my dad had an E60 530i that he got new and he kept only 2 years because he was fedup with constant technical issues. It never left him stranded but the iDrive system would stop working and multiple components were replaced. My uncle had an E90 335i, (I really liked driving it, I cross shopped it in 2008 VS the TL-S, I just couldn't afford it ). He kept that car a while, but he is very mechanically inclined and he had several issues with the motor that even the dealership was unable to resolve. After throwing parts at it using a mixture of educated guesses and trial and error, the issue got sorted out but then other things were starting to go a bit wonky.
Knocking on wood here, but the only issue I've had with the TL-S was the HFL needing replacement twice. My volume knob didn't always respond, but somehow that healed itself about 2-3 years ago. Also, I sometimes the navi map would freeze, but that too sorted itself out over a year ago. I don't have "that" much mileage on the car (108k or so) but hoping for a few more years.

 

A lot of the newer BMW's, more so the M's are very reliable. If you still lust for a 6MT, the new m3 and m4 will have a manual paired with the B58 engine (Forged, twin turbo, in-line 6). The B series engines from BMW are very reliable and built well.

 

Mileage has been not all that high maybe 130,000 135,000 at most but they are long term cars 7 to 12 years of use. Have never gotten hit with a big bill for unexpected maintenance. Most put into any one car outside of tires was under $1500 going back to 2004. The ones I have leased (36 months) although modified & pushed hard at track days & AutoX have been bulletproof.

BMW had a shitty rep going back to around 2008/2009 but IMHO have turned that around over the last 10 years. Its shows up very clearly in the two main BMW forums. Where they used to be Bitch Fest rather than Bimmer Fest topics now are pretty positive general automotive threads.

Dealer maintenance can/will be expensive after the free stuff runs out but have found most independent BMW service shops to be reasonable. Tend to do most all out of warranty service myself but there are still things I can't do or don't feel like putting the time in. The two local BMW indies I used have been good so far.

 

That's good feedback, thanks for the info guys.

Ok, apologies for derailing this thread... So back to top, Manual good, Automatic bad .

 

Maybe BMW has taken notes from Toyota...

To my knowledge, BMW hasn't been changing things a whole lot the past few years. Maybe they have prioritized reliability over niche for a change.

Then again, I pay about as much attention to BMW as I do to American cars. I literally can't tell the models apart half of the time without checking the badge, but I can say, I have noticed more BMWs on the road, and more BMWs sticking around with their respective owner.

 

Those poll results are still depressing. I heard Honda is dropping the 6MT in the Accord for '21.

 

That's correct. They ceased production of 6MT Accords in December, which is depressing, but state their commitment to MT in the Civic lineup. Scroll to the bottom of the press release:

https://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=1421729

 

Important to note that Honda is discontinuing the Civic Coupe and the Fit so any manual options within those models are also gone.

 

Yes, but I think the demise of the Civic Coupe suggests we'll see an Si hatchback in the next generation--which would be very cool IMO.

 

Stick a fork in the MT, its done. Honda killed it in the Accord, don't expect to see it in the TLX

 

Maybe they're going to bring back the Integra one day.

Wouldn't that be cool.... a Civic TypeR tuned even hotter with an Acura coupe body?

We can dream, at least!

 

Some points to ponder here:

- Automatic transmission technology has advanced dramatically in recent years. They've become a lot smarter thanks to computers and usually know when to shift. I test drove a 2017 Accord a few years ago and was very impressed by how it shifted by itself.

- Paddle shifters have taken the place of a clutch and that's how you manually shift now.

- Here's a big one - TRAFFIC! Traffic has gotten so bad nowadays (especially here in the NYC/NJ area) between construction and mental midgets behind the wheel speeding and causing accidents, you spend more time shifting than ever!

I'd like a stick in my upcoming 2021 Type-S, but these are the realities we all have to face.

My 2¢
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LOL, no question autotragic transmissions have improved by leaps and bounds; the fact remains, I refuse to be a passenger in my own car.

 

I drove nothing but stick shift cars from the age of 16 until 45. One day while riding the clutch for 10 minutes in very slow moving traffic, for the one million-th time, I decided I'd had enough. Sure it's fun to run through the gears on a curvy road but maybe 5% of my driving involved fun curvy roads.