Type S or 2022 G70?
05-30-2021, 07:40 PM
#161
As far as the LS, it used to be the best-selling flagship (in part helped by its value proposition), but Lexus let the LS 460 shrivel on the vine (a 2nd, more comprehensive refresh is no substitute for an all-new model) and when it's replacement, the LS 500 finally showed up, it alienated long-time owners with its sloping roofline which cut into rear passenger room; the ES is now more spacious at the rear) and by not offering a V8.
Also, didn't help things that the G90 showed up and took the position that the LS once held of offering the most value in the segment, along with still retaining a traditional, box greehouse/roofline - siphoning off some sales (the G90 hasn't impacted LS sales as much as the Genesis sedan/G80 had done to GS sales).
Also, didn't help things that the G90 showed up and took the position that the LS once held of offering the most value in the segment, along with still retaining a traditional, box greehouse/roofline - siphoning off some sales (the G90 hasn't impacted LS sales as much as the Genesis sedan/G80 had done to GS sales).
Last edited by YEH; 05-30-2021 at 07:43 PM.
05-31-2021, 07:59 AM
#162
Three Wheelin'
The biggest issue for the G70 is its cramped rear (a big no, no for the US market; the Cadillac ATS had the same fundamental flaw), followed by the less than ideal dealership situation (in varying stages of progress for each individual dealership) and the design which, while wasn't bad in any way, just didn't stand out (partially addressed by the facelift).
The more striking sheetmetal and roomier 2nd row are the reasons why the Stinger has continued to outsell the newer G70 despite being sold out of Kia dealerships and being the more niche liftback bodystyle (compare 3 Series sales to 4 Series GC sales).
Speaking of Kia dealerships, they can't keep the top SXP trim of the Telluride in stock and after more than 2 years, it's still selling for above MSRP (for as high as $60k+); the Telluride's ATP is higher than that for the Acura brand.
Other issues are the base engine (really needs the upgrade to the 2.5T ) and lease rates which can't match what BMW and Merc offers on the 3 Series and C Class.
Half of G70 sales are for those equipped with the 3.3TT, a ratio in favor of the 6 cylinder that is way higher than the industry norm.
While in a way, that's good, also signifies how sales of the 2.0T have really underperformed - so, it's actually the higher priced G70 with the 3.3TT that sells.
Speaking of higher priced models/trims that sell - it's the same story with the GV80 CUV - outselling all 3 sedans combined with an ATP at around $65-66k, with the top 3.5T Prestige trim being in greatest demand.
The upcoming GV70's highest trim tops out at $63.5k and don't think Genesis will have much trouble moving those, despite pricing that is encroaching on German territory.
The more striking sheetmetal and roomier 2nd row are the reasons why the Stinger has continued to outsell the newer G70 despite being sold out of Kia dealerships and being the more niche liftback bodystyle (compare 3 Series sales to 4 Series GC sales).
Speaking of Kia dealerships, they can't keep the top SXP trim of the Telluride in stock and after more than 2 years, it's still selling for above MSRP (for as high as $60k+); the Telluride's ATP is higher than that for the Acura brand.
Other issues are the base engine (really needs the upgrade to the 2.5T ) and lease rates which can't match what BMW and Merc offers on the 3 Series and C Class.
Half of G70 sales are for those equipped with the 3.3TT, a ratio in favor of the 6 cylinder that is way higher than the industry norm.
While in a way, that's good, also signifies how sales of the 2.0T have really underperformed - so, it's actually the higher priced G70 with the 3.3TT that sells.
Speaking of higher priced models/trims that sell - it's the same story with the GV80 CUV - outselling all 3 sedans combined with an ATP at around $65-66k, with the top 3.5T Prestige trim being in greatest demand.
The upcoming GV70's highest trim tops out at $63.5k and don't think Genesis will have much trouble moving those, despite pricing that is encroaching on German territory.
05-31-2021, 08:08 AM
#163
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You make credible points, but with significant problems. When Acura and Lexus came out, they actually sold very well and did take chunks out of the Germans ass. At the time, Germans built cars that were much more functional and less stylish, especially the interiors, and had less “features”. So two things happened over the years. The Germans upped their game by adding more style and features to compete with the Japanese, and the Japanese got a little more cocky and started raising their prices - and also got more conservative.
Moving to more recent years, all sedan sales have tanked. I live in a very nice neighborhood that has close to 500 homes and is basically filled with well heeled retirees. I don’t see Lexus sedans, but nor do I see German sedans. What I see is a lot of SUVs (no surprise there of course). By far, the upscale SUV I see the most are Lexus GXs. There are so many of them that the local Ford dealer stocks Oil Filters for them at their “quick lane”. I know that because it is also what my wife drives. There are no foreign car dealers within 40-50 miles so the Ford dealer does basic maintenance on lots of different brands.
The other upscale SUVs that are popular here are Lexus RX, Acura MDX, and Lincolns! Obviously there are some German SUVs and cars, but not near as many.
As to the Genesis, I can’t argue with your points, but let’s wait a year and see how their soon to be two SUVs sell. BTW, I have now had my G70 3.3 Sport two months and about 1800 miles. I still love the car.
Moving to more recent years, all sedan sales have tanked. I live in a very nice neighborhood that has close to 500 homes and is basically filled with well heeled retirees. I don’t see Lexus sedans, but nor do I see German sedans. What I see is a lot of SUVs (no surprise there of course). By far, the upscale SUV I see the most are Lexus GXs. There are so many of them that the local Ford dealer stocks Oil Filters for them at their “quick lane”. I know that because it is also what my wife drives. There are no foreign car dealers within 40-50 miles so the Ford dealer does basic maintenance on lots of different brands.
The other upscale SUVs that are popular here are Lexus RX, Acura MDX, and Lincolns! Obviously there are some German SUVs and cars, but not near as many.
As to the Genesis, I can’t argue with your points, but let’s wait a year and see how their soon to be two SUVs sell. BTW, I have now had my G70 3.3 Sport two months and about 1800 miles. I still love the car.
Btw - happy to hear that you are enjoying your car!
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jjsC5 (05-31-2021)
05-31-2021, 09:45 AM
#164
The biggest issue for the G70 is its cramped rear (a big no, no for the US market; the Cadillac ATS had the same fundamental flaw), followed by the less than ideal dealership situation (in varying stages of progress for each individual dealership) and the design which, while wasn't bad in any way, just didn't stand out (partially addressed by the facelift).
The more striking sheetmetal and roomier 2nd row are the reasons why the Stinger has continued to outsell the newer G70 despite being sold out of Kia dealerships and being the more niche liftback bodystyle (compare 3 Series sales to 4 Series GC sales).
Speaking of Kia dealerships, they can't keep the top SXP trim of the Telluride in stock and after more than 2 years, it's still selling for above MSRP (for as high as $60k+); the Telluride's ATP is higher than that for the Acura brand.
Other issues are the base engine (really needs the upgrade to the 2.5T ) and lease rates which can't match what BMW and Merc offers on the 3 Series and C Class.
Half of G70 sales are for those equipped with the 3.3TT, a ratio in favor of the 6 cylinder that is way higher than the industry norm.
While in a way, that's good, also signifies how sales of the 2.0T have really underperformed - so, it's actually the higher priced G70 with the 3.3TT that sells.
Speaking of higher priced models/trims that sell - it's the same story with the GV80 CUV - outselling all 3 sedans combined with an ATP at around $65-66k, with the top 3.5T Prestige trim being in greatest demand.
The upcoming GV70's highest trim tops out at $63.5k and don't think Genesis will have much trouble moving those, despite pricing that is encroaching on German territory.
The more striking sheetmetal and roomier 2nd row are the reasons why the Stinger has continued to outsell the newer G70 despite being sold out of Kia dealerships and being the more niche liftback bodystyle (compare 3 Series sales to 4 Series GC sales).
Speaking of Kia dealerships, they can't keep the top SXP trim of the Telluride in stock and after more than 2 years, it's still selling for above MSRP (for as high as $60k+); the Telluride's ATP is higher than that for the Acura brand.
Other issues are the base engine (really needs the upgrade to the 2.5T ) and lease rates which can't match what BMW and Merc offers on the 3 Series and C Class.
Half of G70 sales are for those equipped with the 3.3TT, a ratio in favor of the 6 cylinder that is way higher than the industry norm.
While in a way, that's good, also signifies how sales of the 2.0T have really underperformed - so, it's actually the higher priced G70 with the 3.3TT that sells.
Speaking of higher priced models/trims that sell - it's the same story with the GV80 CUV - outselling all 3 sedans combined with an ATP at around $65-66k, with the top 3.5T Prestige trim being in greatest demand.
The upcoming GV70's highest trim tops out at $63.5k and don't think Genesis will have much trouble moving those, despite pricing that is encroaching on German territory.
06-01-2021, 12:22 AM
#165
Burning Brakes
Depending on how it was optioned that’s a pretty good deal. The used car market is crazy right now..
06-01-2021, 06:59 AM
#166
Senior Moderator
We all have our budegetary limit but I generally agree; $2,500 down and $550 month is a respectable deal for an M340i, assuming the mileage allowance is between 10-12k.
Last edited by F23A4; 06-01-2021 at 07:20 AM.
06-01-2021, 10:20 AM
#167
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BEAR-AvHistory (06-01-2021)
06-01-2021, 11:40 AM
#168
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06-01-2021, 01:03 PM
#169
I love my AWD 2019 G70 Sport.
Compared to cars from my past this one meets my needs on acceleration and handling. Its also fun, comfortable, and reliable. The 'Dark Chrome' trim discoloration on the Sport model and pano roof rattles are common complaints but Ill take that over the 2018 ASpec problems I had any day.
I am usually a person that is always looking for my next vehicle but half way through the lease term I have no idea what to do when the lease is up October 22.
Compared to cars from my past this one meets my needs on acceleration and handling. Its also fun, comfortable, and reliable. The 'Dark Chrome' trim discoloration on the Sport model and pano roof rattles are common complaints but Ill take that over the 2018 ASpec problems I had any day.
I am usually a person that is always looking for my next vehicle but half way through the lease term I have no idea what to do when the lease is up October 22.
06-01-2021, 01:42 PM
#170
Burning Brakes
I love my AWD 2019 G70 Sport.
Compared to cars from my past this one meets my needs on acceleration and handling. Its also fun, comfortable, and reliable. The 'Dark Chrome' trim discoloration on the Sport model and pano roof rattles are common complaints but Ill take that over the 2018 ASpec problems I had any day.
I am usually a person that is always looking for my next vehicle but half way through the lease term I have no idea what to do when the lease is up October 22.
Compared to cars from my past this one meets my needs on acceleration and handling. Its also fun, comfortable, and reliable. The 'Dark Chrome' trim discoloration on the Sport model and pano roof rattles are common complaints but Ill take that over the 2018 ASpec problems I had any day.
I am usually a person that is always looking for my next vehicle but half way through the lease term I have no idea what to do when the lease is up October 22.
06-02-2021, 02:36 PM
#171
Styl1n
So little funny story, on the highway today cruising like usual and a G70 3.3T comes and start tailing me hard so switched lanes and didn’t bother to look who it is….some traffic builds, everyone is doing around 50 then it opens up again so I see him cut lanes and speeds up next to me…passes and I said I gotta buy gas today any so what the hell I let a rip……when I said he was left behind he was left by at least 15 cars…..probably didn’t know I was tuned and running E40 😊 he came next to me gave me a look and floor it was on his way…..overall it looks like a nice car the front and back.
06-02-2021, 02:57 PM
#172
Wow, really. A good lease deal is usually 1% of the final price of the car. With the $2500 divided in to 36 month. That would be about $620 a month. Not paying that for a $50K car, no matter who makes the car. lol
06-02-2021, 05:36 PM
#173
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BTW a $41,000 MSRP 330 with a number of options to $51,000 MSRP would be $620 at MSRP but most go for around $45,000 after discount or $550 for 10K a year miles. Thats why $550 for an M340 looks very good.
FWIW on the $620 estimate on a $50,000 car. I pay less than $700 for a $73,500 MSRP Z4 M40i with $2500 down @ 10,000 miles for 36 months. My 440 was $63,000 MSRP & my payment was under $625.
Lesson is just like advertised horsepower you can't take a BMW MSRP seriously. Everything is negotiable & nothing sells at MSRP if you shop around. The lease rates in the adds are based on MSPR. While the Residual value is always fixed everything else is negotiable including the money factor (rate). The better your credit the lower the money factor.
For a shopper there is overlap in the projected actual OTD price of a TLX-Type S & many of the German & Lexus performance oriented cars.
Its also one of the reasons some of the guys are saying a Type S at MSRP or MSRP + ADM is not a good plan if the buyer is a shopper.
06-02-2021, 05:45 PM
#174
A stripped M340 without the $996 delivery charge is $54325. Have never seen a stripped $55320 M340 on a dealers lot. Local dealer has some sub $50,000 cars but they are all 330 or 330 hybrid. So there must be more to the story.
BTW a $41,000 MSRP 330 with a number of options to $51,000 MSRP would be $620 at MSRP but most go for around $45,000 after discount or $550 for 10K a year miles. Thats why $550 for an M340 looks very good.
FWIW on the $620 estimate on a $50,000 car. I pay less than $700 for a $73,500 MSRP Z4 M40i with $2500 down @ 10,000 miles for 36 months. My 440 was $63,000 MSRP & my payment was under $625.
Lesson is just like advertised horsepower you can't take a BMW MSRP seriously. Everything is negotiable & nothing sells at MSRP if you shop around. The lease rates in the adds are based on MSPR. While the Residual value is always fixed everything else is negotiable including the money factor (rate). The better your credit the lower the money factor.
For a shopper there is overlap in the projected actual OTD price of a TLX-Type S & many of the German & Lexus performance oriented cars.
Its also one of the reasons some of the guys are saying a Type S at MSRP or MSRP + ADM is not a good plan if the buyer is a shopper.
BTW a $41,000 MSRP 330 with a number of options to $51,000 MSRP would be $620 at MSRP but most go for around $45,000 after discount or $550 for 10K a year miles. Thats why $550 for an M340 looks very good.
FWIW on the $620 estimate on a $50,000 car. I pay less than $700 for a $73,500 MSRP Z4 M40i with $2500 down @ 10,000 miles for 36 months. My 440 was $63,000 MSRP & my payment was under $625.
Lesson is just like advertised horsepower you can't take a BMW MSRP seriously. Everything is negotiable & nothing sells at MSRP if you shop around. The lease rates in the adds are based on MSPR. While the Residual value is always fixed everything else is negotiable including the money factor (rate). The better your credit the lower the money factor.
For a shopper there is overlap in the projected actual OTD price of a TLX-Type S & many of the German & Lexus performance oriented cars.
Its also one of the reasons some of the guys are saying a Type S at MSRP or MSRP + ADM is not a good plan if the buyer is a shopper.
For your 440 did you also put $2500 down??
06-02-2021, 06:11 PM
#175
Fair points except one. I leased my G70. Residual for three years/10,000 miles was 53%. Not great but not bad other. But the money factor was almost nothing. I’d have to look it up, but I’m not kidding that is was almost nothing. Add that to the $6,000 discount I wound up getting and the lease was about $150 less than a comparably equipped M340. And comparably equipped is not really true either because the G70 had features not even available on the 3 series.
Try getting that on the GV80 or the GV70 - which is just starting to hit dealerships.
There have been prospective GV80 buyers who got frustrated by the delays.and trying to find the color combo they wanted - and ended up leasing an equivalent German for less.
For the 1st Q, Genesis had the 2nd lowest incentive spending relative to ATP after Porsche.
Due to dwindling supplu, good lease deals on the Germans have dried up unless one finds a leftover that a dealership is ready to unload.
Last edited by YEH; 06-02-2021 at 06:15 PM.
06-02-2021, 08:44 PM
#176
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The compted all expense paid weekend @ the BMW "M" advanced performance driving school starts at $3535 + room & board if it was on my own hook.
For the Z4 my monthly cash out of pocket in in the upper mid $600's. Personally if it was $1,000 a month still would have bought the car. Between the 2020 Z4 & the 2020 Suburban RTS the Chevy was $10,000 more expensive with no drivers school.
The deal you passed up was pretty good because the car listed for well over $50K. Base stripped M340 is $54,325 & can't imagine a dealer executive driving a stripped car. Yeah BMW's are expensive thats why they are called a Luxury.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 06-02-2021 at 08:57 PM.
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Nexx (06-02-2021)
06-04-2021, 01:12 AM
#177
Burning Brakes
That 1% rule doesn’t work especially with BMW when there are too many factors involved such as inventory, region, residuals etc. It’s basically BS and been ripped apart as not being realistic.
06-05-2021, 11:53 AM
#179
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06-05-2021, 12:33 PM
#180
11-01-2023, 09:59 AM
#183
Banned
So I have a deposit on a Type S but the lack of info and transparency from Acura is leaving a lot to be desired, especially this close to release. On the other hand The g70 refresh is coming out around the same time. Last gen g70 did 0-60 in about 4.7 seconds which I don’t think the type s can match being a few hundred pounds heavier and less hp and torque. I’m just not so sure about spending $60,000 for a Hyundai.
what are everyone’s thoughts on genesis and the g70?
what are everyone’s thoughts on genesis and the g70?
11-01-2023, 11:43 AM
#184
Burning Brakes
Well...the hyundai stuff is something i'd only lease. But if you want a more reliable car, better AWD, better engine, better....everything...go Acura. And it's not always, or really NEVER about 0-60. Everyone is different. HP means nothing...is it quick enough? can it be modded easily? How does it handle? point ANYTHING of a second is irrelevant. Unless you are a professional drag racer of street cars?!
11-02-2023, 08:20 AM
#185
Senior Moderator
since this thread goes back 2 1/2 years (and it's been a year and half since the OP's most recent activity), does anyone have any idea what their final decision was?
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MarcoTLX (11-02-2023)
11-10-2023, 12:33 PM
#186
Three Wheelin'
Thread is 2.5 years old and the question has nothing to do with the thread. "I am new to the Acura" is also a tell-tale sign. I'm reporting this post.
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