When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Yes, the straight 6 BMW M Tuned is simply on a league of its own, performance wise, compared to its competition, first of all, it is underrated by at least 50 horses in my book.
The only real car that can hang with or even occasionally beat an M340i for less money in the Charger Scat Pack, all the M340i competitors are simply slower. The Type S, I suspect, will not be even close...considering the size difference I would even hardly call it a competitor, the new TLX is similar to what the 4G was, almost a value competitor to the 5 Series more than the 3 Series.
Dinan Dyno'd a stock M340i and Got 448 Crank HP and 450 Lb Ft Crank Torque. So you're look at about 400 wheel HP and TQ.
honestly, there is nothing special about ANY car in this segment! It’s all personal preference.
Maybe nothing special but definitely some pros and cons of one vs. the others. To me the Acura infotainment has turned me off. I was very open to it when it came out, and don’t mind the touch pad, but the overall interface and usability just sucks. Of all the cars I have owned it is near the bottom. Hyundai infotainment gets very good reviews. Without driving both back to back I would bet the Acura suspension is probably much more refined and I would take DWB over stunts any day. That said for most people they both ride and drive fine.
BTW,I hate black wheels, but the dealer would not swap them for the wheels on one of his Prestige cars, and I had to have the “Sport”. I’d like to put some aftermarket wheels on it, but I have other financial priorities. And much to my amazement, my wife likes these. I guess they make me look younger at least
Nice and I love dark wheels especially with that body color.
Jawoll! Herr YEH. From 1997 until 2000, He was Director of Chassis, Drivetrain, Electric systems Development at BMW M GmbH
The Koreans poached a number of BMW & Audi department heads to drive their product development.
Didn't exactly poach Biermann as he was being forced into retirement by BMW (and Biermann had stated that it was refreshing to no longer have management on his arse all the time about cost).
Btw, BMW started the M Division by poaching the talent from Ford Motorsport.
To answer a couple of questions, I did want to wait for the 2022, but it was about timing and money. I think the new design looks a little forced, and I got a great deal on the 2021. That was important to me right now. I just spent a lot of money on a a big move.
Where I live now is very close to some phenomenal roads that I ride my sport bikes on a few times a week. I’ve had some great cars, my last a 2009 Z06 Corvette that I got rid of nine years ago. So it’s been a while since I’ve driven a car on good winding roads. I should mention that I road raced motorcycles back in the day, and I’ve done some auto crossing and drag racing cars over the years.
This morning I took the G70 on a 150 mile ride on very lightly traveled roads that have many miles of what people now refer to as very “technical” winding roads. I was absolutely blown away by how well the car handles. I’m sure that some of the competitors that get mentioned in this forum would impress me also. I’m not in a position to speak for how the competitors would stack up. But I was pushing hard enough to know that the G70 sport is one hell of a car. Especially impressive for a car I had owned for less than 24 hours. At the same time it rides better than my 540 did, and is loaded with features.
I was ready to get into the type S until they released performance numbers. I was really expecting 400bhp or at least close to it. Unfortunately, the 400Z is too small for me.
So I went and test drove the 2022 G70. Honestly, I couldn’t believe how good this thing is. Handles like on rails and the power is dizzying! Lol Since this was only the advanced package, the sport should impress me even more! Either way, I will know in four weeks when my order arrives mid June.
I have been salivating with expectation of the new type S for the last 6 months. I’m actually glad I was put off with limited production numbers and disappointing hp/torque numbers.
I understand the value of limited production but, it seems buyers get the short end of the stick with inflated pricing. All I want is performance and value for my dollars.
My test drive did not disappoint and time will tell through ownership. As far as I can tell, Genesis has truly stepped up their game.
BTW,I hate black wheels, but the dealer would not swap them for the wheels on one of his Prestige cars, and I had to have the “Sport”. I’d like to put some aftermarket wheels on it, but I have other financial priorities. And much to my amazement, my wife likes these. I guess they make me look younger at least
Wow...making me look younger would be a task for sure...since I am considered a senior....but, very young at heart and doing. My 12th Mustang GT...or Cobra, and a Saleen prove that...I think? LOL! I special ordered a '21 'Stang, GT, Perf.
Pack, mag ride,, every option I could check off.
So, black wheels. As in most things...it's in the eyes of the one looking and what they like or don't. I've always believed that most things follow "art form"...meaning: proportions, contrasts..in color and shapes, etc. Black wheels should be
left to racing...brake dust you know. But, black wheels, with black tires....like looking in to a deep well....not attractive comparing to rest of car...using "art" as a guide. NO contrast. I've owned over 60 veh....many high perf. ones....and I've never
had a veh. with black wheels. Now, when "black chrome" with various "shades of it" was going strong for awhile..that was a very good compromise for many. Don't see that as much now...but, still out there, even on high end wheels.
I will say that in most all cases chrome wheels don't work. But, brushed aluminum...some polished areas of that brushed wheel look good. If you want a "Darth Vader" look...then everything black is the way to go....LOL!
This is all IMHO...and having studied art, car design, etc. Black wheels on most great looking cars steal away the "best look" that veh. could have. Again...IMHO.
Art in ref. to proportioning: Look at Lexus....Toyotas and others with the "whale mouth" grilles and awful front ends! Damn...changing things just to keep your job as a car designer doesn't mean it "looks right!!" LOL!
I love the Lexus LC500...EXCEPT for the front end. That ruins the otherwise great design and character of that car. I believe that the car co's. that do those massive whale mouth grilles do it to try and make sure
people KNOW it's "so and so's car co."....but, that's a double edge sword too.....LOL! Yeah....I know you...and you are UGLYYYY!!!
If the new G70 was out and had the interior of the new GV70. I for sure would have gotten it instead of the TLX.
Also ppl really need to stop bashing Hyundai, they make good cars. They are on par with Honda, if not better. So you are paying $60+K for a Honda TLX Type-S?? Is that better?? I would rather pay $55K for a fully loaded Hyundai G70.
If the new G70 was out and had the interior of the new GV70. I for sure would have gotten it instead of the TLX.
Also ppl really need to stop bashing Hyundai, they make good cars. They are on par with Honda, if not better. So you are paying $60+K for a Honda TLX Type-S?? Is that better?? I would rather pay $55K for a fully loaded Hyundai G70.
No doubt Hyundai/Genesis makes good vehicles. Unfortunately the steep drop in resale will make a mockery of the $5,000 you saved by getting the G70 instead of the Type S.
No doubt Hyundai/Genesis makes good vehicles. Unfortunately the steep drop in resale will make a mockery of the $5,000 you saved by getting the G70 instead of the Type S.
Meh, I only lease. They are giving away the TLX now. lol
No doubt Hyundai/Genesis makes good vehicles. Unfortunately the steep drop in resale will make a mockery of the $5,000 you saved by getting the G70 instead of the Type S.
You think you are going to see a Type-S for under $60,000 OTD?
Max production look like 6 cars a month to the top dealers once they get rolling.. Half delivered to high volume dealers. Limited production leads to ADM unless Acura makes it a "you do ADM & you lose allocation".
The 2020 PCM at MSRP $50,000 is down to a low of $39,000 to a number available @ $42,000. Some trying to sell for more but these are all Acura Dealer prices. If the Type S does not show well it might it not have a similar fate?
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 05-19-2021 at 08:20 PM.
Are they thinking this keeps the car exclusive and pumps up demand and this no discounts from MSRP? I personally would go G70 if I were still into sedans. The G70 Sport Prestige has all the bells and whistles and will holds its own against the TLX. Granted it does not have SH-AWD, but unless you are pushing it into the corners SH-AWD does not buy you much. I was watching some of the Type-S vids yesterday and I believe Alex on Autos was showing the gauge cluster and had it on the SH-AWD screen and was all in the front wheels with a tint bit in the back. Where you have to push the car to get the SH-AWD to benefit you would be on a track or some extreme regular road driving (maybe twisty mountain roads). Don't; get me wrong every TL/TLX/RDX we owned that had it if avialbel, I loved it, just over rated for most people in most driving.
Are they thinking this keeps the car exclusive and pumps up demand and this no discounts from MSRP? I personally would go G70 if I were still into sedans. The G70 Sport Prestige has all the bells and whistles and will holds its own against the TLX. Granted it does not have SH-AWD, but unless you are pushing it into the corners SH-AWD does not buy you much. I was watching some of the Type-S vids yesterday and I believe Alex on Autos was showing the gauge cluster and had it on the SH-AWD screen and was all in the front wheels with a tint bit in the back. Where you have to push the car to get the SH-AWD to benefit you would be on a track or some extreme regular road driving (maybe twisty mountain roads). Don't; get me wrong every TL/TLX/RDX we owned that had it if avialbel, I loved it, just over rated for most people in most driving.
Yes, SH-AWD is wasted on most folks since "common sense" tells you not to push the throttle on a turn. It's a problem similar to Betamax vs VHS. Betamax may have been superior but if no one uses it, who cares?
Yes, SH-AWD is wasted on most folks since "common sense" tells you not to push the throttle on a turn. It's a problem similar to Betamax vs VHS. Betamax may have been superior but if no one uses it, who cares?
Agree: You are not going to get people who ride the brake through a turn to step on the gas through a turn.
Yes, SH-AWD is wasted on most folks since "common sense" tells you not to push the throttle on a turn. It's a problem similar to Betamax vs VHS. Betamax may have been superior but if no one uses it, who cares?
Folks reading that post no doubt hit up Google for an explanation there. That said (and as a former Sony Betamax owner), point taken.
Yes, SH-AWD is wasted on most folks since "common sense" tells you not to push the throttle on a turn. It's a problem similar to Betamax vs VHS. Betamax may have been superior but if no one uses it, who cares?
I guess I don’t have much common sense then As I posted in an earlier thread, I pushed my rear drive G70 pretty good through a lot of curves the day after I got it. And yes, I accelerated through the apex of many. But I also have some road racing experience on motorcycles and am not the average driver. The key is two fold. Know your limitations and be smooth. And do it where no other vehicles are around in case you fail at the first key!
No doubt Hyundai/Genesis makes good vehicles. Unfortunately the steep drop in resale will make a mockery of the $5,000 you saved by getting the G70 instead of the Type S.
Can pick up a used TLX for a lower % of its MSRP than a used G70 (same year, similar miles).
Can also pick up an RLX for less than a G80 despite having the initial higher MSRP.
While not getting to Telluride level of resale, the GV80 will be among the tops in its segment for holding its value.
Now, the upcoming GV70 has a good chance of matching the Telluride's stellar resale.
^ Just did that to shut up SSFTSX (not that it did - lol), but have been looking into the used market for a couple of friends.
Primarily been looking at Mazdas like the CX-5.
Pretty much what most of us already know.
Best handler in the segment, along with the best sheetmetal and interior quality.
Downsides are - tighter interior, not the most advanced UI/tech and heard that the seats are not the most comfortable for certain body types (this being the biggest potential deal killer).
Yeah, used prices are off the roof right now, but can still find relative deals depending on market and model (the same model can vary in demand from market to market).
But with financing being what it is on new autos these days and if one can get a modest discount from MSRP, probably better to buy new unless one can find one if the rare deals on the used market.
I'm sure one can find a better deal on a used ILX than a used Civic, but (not that I've looked into it) a new Civic may be the better buy.
Back when Acura was aggressively discounting the old MDX, one could get a well-equipped new MDX for less than a used Telluride SXP.
^ Just did that to shut up SSFTSX (not that it did - lol), but have been looking into the used market for a couple of friends.
Primarily been looking at Mazdas like the CX-5.
Pretty much what most of us already know.
Best handler in the segment, along with the best sheetmetal and interior quality.
Downsides are - tighter interior, not the most advanced UI/tech and heard that the seats are not the most comfortable for certain body types (this being the biggest potential deal killer).
Yeah, used prices are off the roof right now, but can still find relative deals depending on market and model (the same model can vary in demand from market to market).
But with financing being what it is on new autos these days and if one can get a modest discount from MSRP, probably better to buy new unless one can find one if the rare deals on the used market.
I'm sure one can find a better deal on a used ILX than a used Civic, but (not that I've looked into it) a new Civic may be the better buy.
Back when Acura was aggressively discounting the old MDX, one could get a well-equipped new MDX for less than a used Telluride SXP.
I got a CX-5 for my granddaughter to go to university in. Is a really nice solid SUV. No issues since new about 4 years. Agree the tech in not first line but the rest of the car is a very good value for the price. Not sure how the seats grade out by trim level I am 5'11" @ 198 & fit fine she is 5'4" & has never complained about the seats. We got the GT in Soul Red Crystal Metallic.
^ Always glad to get more input (thanks!), but a good # of CX-5 owners have told me that they couldn't wait to get rid of it due to the unbearable seats, so guess YMMV.
Can pick up a used TLX for a lower % of its MSRP than a used G70 (same year, similar miles).
Can also pick up an RLX for less than a G80 despite having the initial higher MSRP.
While not getting to Telluride level of resale, the GV80 will be among the tops in its segment for holding its value.
Now, the upcoming GV70 has a good chance of matching the Telluride's stellar resale.
Its too early to predict the resale of the new SUVs you mentioned. Genesis history of resale value is not good at all. I leased mine and the lease was good enough that resale did not a concern, I got 53% and the big discount and lack of fees made resale a non issue.
^ Not at all - predicted that the Telluride would be tops in its segment (actually tops among all SUVs) when started to see how much they were running new.
Like had stated, don't expect the GV80 to quite reach those heights, but the GV70 has a shot.
The biggest factor into resale is discounts from MSRP as depreciation is calculated from MSRP (really should calculated based on ATP).
The GV80 is still holding close to MSRP or above for the top trim 6 months after launch (can get more off the lower trims), so that bodes well for resale.
^ Always glad to get more input (thanks!), but a good # of CX-5 owners have told me that they couldn't wait to get rid of it due to the unbearable seats, so guess YMMV.
Btw, the CX-5 does look really good in that red.
Wife's cousin is very eager to swap hers out for a new RDX; never mentioned anything about the seats though.
I think G70 is a great car based on some of the reviews that I watched. But it will come down to the same argument as TLX vs. C43. German vs Japanese and Korean vs. Japanese/German. I can assure you that most of the people will be hesitant to spend $50-60K for a Korean car right now. The same way, people won't spend $80-$100K for the Japanese. Look at the Lexus LS. It's an amazing car but doesn't sell. This is the reality and doesn't matter if a few enthusiasts will buy G70 here and argue that it's better than TYPE or M340i. At the end of the day, Genesis sold less than 2,700 G70 in the first 4 months of the year. No matter how you slice it right now, Genesis needs a few more year. I will be happy to see Genesis succeed and compete with the big boys. As we all know after 30+ years, Lexus, Infiniti and Acura are still having a hard time to compete with the BMWs and MB.
I think G70 is a great car based on some of the reviews that I watched. But it will come down to the same argument as TLX vs. C43. German vs Japanese and Korean vs. Japanese/German. I can assure you that most of the people will be hesitant to spend $50-60K for a Korean car right now. The same way, people won't spend $80-$100K for the Japanese. Look at the Lexus LS. It's an amazing car but doesn't sell. This is the reality and doesn't matter if a few enthusiasts will buy G70 here and argue that it's better than TYPE or M340i. At the end of the day, Genesis sold less than 2,700 G70 in the first 4 months of the year. No matter how you slice it right now, Genesis needs a few more year. I will be happy to see Genesis succeed and compete with the big boys. As we all know after 30+ years, Lexus, Infiniti and Acura are still having a hard time to compete with the BMWs and MB.
I believe thats because of badge snobs, German fanboys dont care if their car is good or not. They will still get it, just because of the badge. Look at the new 4 series, that thing is fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugly as hell!!!!!!!!!!!! But bmw fanboys will say it looks great!! LOL!!!!
I believe thats because of badge snobs, German fanboys dont care if their car is good or not. They will still get it, just because of the badge. Look at the new 4 series, that thing is fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugly as hell!!!!!!!!!!!! But bmw fanboys will say it looks great!! LOL!!!!
Clearly you dont spend much time on bimmerpost because most folks there hate it.
I believe thats because of badge snobs, German fanboys dont care if their car is good or not. They will still get it, just because of the badge. Look at the new 4 series, that thing is fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugly as hell!!!!!!!!!!!! But bmw fanboys will say it looks great!! LOL!!!!
No. Most people on Bimmerpost hate the 4 series. In fact many people also hate the new G80 and G82 and will not buy one because of the front so I’m not sure where you’re getting that. If anybody has embarrassing fanboys it’s Honda/Acura. They are literally a meme.
No. Most people on Bimmerpost hate the 4 series. In fact many people also hate the new G80 and G82 and will not buy one because of the front so I’m not sure where you’re getting that. If anybody has embarrassing fanboys it’s Honda/Acura. They are literally a meme.
people like what they like no matter what the majority thinks of it. Every car brand has a “fanboy” base and some are stronger than others but who really gives a fuck. BUY WHAT YOU LIKE. No car is perfect in this segment.
Of course it’s the badge. It’s the sad reality of the world. A Burberry polo is $450 Canadian now and guess what? It was sold out. Why Someone would pay $400-500 for a freaking polo?!!
I am not saying everyone, and I don’t like to generalize but most people care for badge, brand name and logo. I am guilty of that. Now we can argue for days and years here, but at the end of the day, acurazine doesn’t represent even 1% of the buyers.
I was literally talking to a family member last Sunday, and he is in the process of buying a new car. I told him to wait and check GV70. His immediate answer was: “no way I am not spending $65K for Korean car”. It will take time before people digest and accept paying $60-70K for genesis.
One thing to note about the lesser known reviewers is that they have to be pretty positive about the cars…otherwise they lose access. If you watch their videos they rarely criticize the cars very much, if at all, because they know who butters their bread.
I believe thats because of badge snobs, German fanboys dont care if their car is good or not. They will still get it, just because of the badge. Look at the new 4 series, that thing is fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugly as hell!!!!!!!!!!!! But bmw fanboys will say it looks great!! LOL!!!!
Bought the 382BHP Z4 M40i rather than an a 502BHP M4 because I did not like the grill.
That said some will buy the 4 because the performance happens to be pretty good. So they will over look the grill.
BTW the Acura collective marketing department would all contribute their left nut for Acura have BMW's badge appeal. Why do you think they keep trying to associate their cars with the German cars & not the Japanese or Korean cars?
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 05-28-2021 at 10:09 PM.
I think G70 is a great car based on some of the reviews that I watched. But it will come down to the same argument as TLX vs. C43. German vs Japanese and Korean vs. Japanese/German. I can assure you that most of the people will be hesitant to spend $50-60K for a Korean car right now. The same way, people won't spend $80-$100K for the Japanese. Look at the Lexus LS. It's an amazing car but doesn't sell. This is the reality and doesn't matter if a few enthusiasts will buy G70 here and argue that it's better than TYPE or M340i. At the end of the day, Genesis sold less than 2,700 G70 in the first 4 months of the year. No matter how you slice it right now, Genesis needs a few more year. I will be happy to see Genesis succeed and compete with the big boys. As we all know after 30+ years, Lexus, Infiniti and Acura are still having a hard time to compete with the BMWs and MB.
You make credible points, but with significant problems. When Acura and Lexus came out, they actually sold very well and did take chunks out of the Germans ass. At the time, Germans built cars that were much more functional and less stylish, especially the interiors, and had less “features”. So two things happened over the years. The Germans upped their game by adding more style and features to compete with the Japanese, and the Japanese got a little more cocky and started raising their prices - and also got more conservative.
Moving to more recent years, all sedan sales have tanked. I live in a very nice neighborhood that has close to 500 homes and is basically filled with well heeled retirees. I don’t see Lexus sedans, but nor do I see German sedans. What I see is a lot of SUVs (no surprise there of course). By far, the upscale SUV I see the most are Lexus GXs. There are so many of them that the local Ford dealer stocks Oil Filters for them at their “quick lane”. I know that because it is also what my wife drives. There are no foreign car dealers within 40-50 miles so the Ford dealer does basic maintenance on lots of different brands.
The other upscale SUVs that are popular here are Lexus RX, Acura MDX, and Lincolns! Obviously there are some German SUVs and cars, but not near as many.
As to the Genesis, I can’t argue with your points, but let’s wait a year and see how their soon to be two SUVs sell. BTW, I have now had my G70 3.3 Sport two months and about 1800 miles. I still love the car.
I think G70 is a great car based on some of the reviews that I watched. But it will come down to the same argument as TLX vs. C43. German vs Japanese and Korean vs. Japanese/German. I can assure you that most of the people will be hesitant to spend $50-60K for a Korean car right now. The same way, people won't spend $80-$100K for the Japanese. Look at the Lexus LS. It's an amazing car but doesn't sell. This is the reality and doesn't matter if a few enthusiasts will buy G70 here and argue that it's better than TYPE or M340i. At the end of the day, Genesis sold less than 2,700 G70 in the first 4 months of the year. No matter how you slice it right now, Genesis needs a few more year. I will be happy to see Genesis succeed and compete with the big boys. As we all know after 30+ years, Lexus, Infiniti and Acura are still having a hard time to compete with the BMWs and MB.
The biggest issue for the G70 is its cramped rear (a big no, no for the US market; the Cadillac ATS had the same fundamental flaw), followed by the less than ideal dealership situation (in varying stages of progress for each individual dealership) and the design which, while wasn't bad in any way, just didn't stand out (partially addressed by the facelift).
The more striking sheetmetal and roomier 2nd row are the reasons why the Stinger has continued to outsell the newer G70 despite being sold out of Kia dealerships and being the more niche liftback bodystyle (compare 3 Series sales to 4 Series GC sales).
Speaking of Kia dealerships, they can't keep the top SXP trim of the Telluride in stock and after more than 2 years, it's still selling for above MSRP (for as high as $60k+); the Telluride's ATP is higher than that for the Acura brand.
Other issues are the base engine (really needs the upgrade to the 2.5T ) and lease rates which can't match what BMW and Merc offers on the 3 Series and C Class.
Half of G70 sales are for those equipped with the 3.3TT, a ratio in favor of the 6 cylinder that is way higher than the industry norm.
While in a way, that's good, also signifies how sales of the 2.0T have really underperformed - so, it's actually the higher priced G70 with the 3.3TT that sells.
Speaking of higher priced models/trims that sell - it's the same story with the GV80 CUV - outselling all 3 sedans combined with an ATP at around $65-66k, with the top 3.5T Prestige trim being in greatest demand.
The upcoming GV70's highest trim tops out at $63.5k and don't think Genesis will have much trouble moving those, despite pricing that is encroaching on German territory.
As far as the LS, it used to be the best-selling flagship (in part helped by its value proposition), but Lexus let the LS 460 shrivel on the vine (a 2nd, more comprehensive refresh is no substitute for an all-new model) and when it's replacement, the LS 500 finally showed up, it alienated long-time owners with its sloping roofline which cut into rear passenger room; the ES is now more spacious at the rear) and by not offering a V8.
Also, didn't help things that the G90 showed up and took the position that the LS once held of offering the most value in the segment, along with still retaining a traditional, box greehouse/roofline.
04-01-2021, 12:53 PM
As I posted in an earlier thread, I pushed my rear drive G70 pretty good through a lot of curves the day after I got it. And yes, I accelerated through the apex of many. But I also have some road racing experience on motorcycles and am not the average driver. The key is two fold. Know your limitations and be smooth. And do it where no other vehicles are around in case you fail at the first key!
