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BMW heavily discounts their cars so that's not really an issue. My M340i Is nearly loaded minus the Laser Lights and I got it for $59K after rebates and incentives. I have every option I want and did a custom build. If price of the Type S is in this range which it will be, there is no reason at all to get a Type S unless you just like how it looks more than the BMW because it certainly won't be as fast.
but you are assuming that the type s won’t be discontinued. I don’t believe they will be initially because of the term limited release but once they are discontinued i due believe the type s will be a better value and I’m a BMW fanboy.
It's also difficult for me to find an S5 SB with my specs, but Audi is not blocking reserves. I know the S5 SB will be over 70k, prepared for that here in Canada....
Maybe it's different in Canada, but here in the states, Audi dealers should have some 2021 S5-SB as Premium-Plus. However, if you are looking for Prestige ... I suggest you just go ahead and custom-build/order it. Those are rare and not likely to be "your color" anyway. Anyway, with custom-build you can add whatever else you like on the build-sheet.
BMW heavily discounts their cars so that's not really an issue. My M340i Is nearly loaded minus the Laser Lights and I got it for $59K after rebates and incentives. I have every option I want and did a custom build. If price of the Type S is in this range which it will be, there is no reason at all to get a Type S unless you just like how it looks more than the BMW because it certainly won't be as fast.
Be careful not to mix Canadian pricing with US pricing. TLX Type S is expected to retail in the low 50's in the US (Tony's from Canada). Once the demand settles down, the Type S should easily discount below $50k down the road, maintaining similar deltas b/w the Acura and BMW retail pricing.
BMW heavily discounts their cars so that's not really an issue. My M340i Is nearly loaded minus the Laser Lights and I got it for $59K after rebates and incentives. I have every option I want and did a custom build. If price of the Type S is in this range which it will be, there is no reason at all to get a Type S unless you just like how it looks more than the BMW because it certainly won't be as fast.
In any comparison on price I would knock a quick 10% off a BMW MSRP. Personally have always done better than minus 10% OTD on everyone I got going back to 2004 including a 2018 pre-order 440i-MPPSK. IIRC the MSRP with the MPPSK was $62,000 paid in the lower $54,000 range.
Some commonality with the Type S if you believe the advertised numbers. The MPPSK track option lifted the stock 440i 3.0 DOHC I6 to 355BHP advertised same as the Type-S. As a teaser 355BHP advertised produced this on my cars internal performance monitor. No roll out in the system so its a pure street start. All runs between 3.9 & 4.1.
The car weighed 3710 lb & with the Type-S expected to be a bit heavier will a 4.4 or so be possible?
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 03-25-2021 at 12:50 PM.
Be careful not to mix Canadian pricing with US pricing. TLX Type S is expected to retail in the low 50's in the US (Tony's from Canada). Once the demand settles down, the Type S should easily discount below $50k down the road, maintaining similar deltas b/w the Acura and BMW retail pricing.
Agree. can't remember the numbers now but my 2006 TL 6MT, Nav + Summer Tires (the only options) was well below MSRP. The 3G had been on the market for a few years by 2006.
honestly, there is nothing special about ANY car in this segment! It’s all personal preference.
While I do agree, however, respectfully with the M340i it is everything that an enthusiast would want. It's almost a true M car without buying a real M and does exactly what you want.
a base m340i in Canada starts a 64k. So you’re comparing a base vs fully load. I’d take the type S.
Here in the US I've seen discounted leftover M340's with a fair amount of options dip into this territory below MSRP. You can bet Type S wont be selling below MSRP anytime soon, so they're in the same ballpark price wise as long as you keep the options in check for the M340. Will the Type S have more standard features? Yes. Personally, dollar for dollar I wouldn't mind sacrificing some standard features for the pure performance aspect of the M. Not sure how the discounts are right now in Canada though.
In any comparison on price I would knock a quick 10% off a BMW MSRP. Personally have always done better than minus 10% OTD on everyone I got going back to 2004 including a 2018 pre-order 440i-MPPSK. IIRC the MSRP with the MPPSK was $62,000 paid in the lower $54,000 range.
Some commonality with the Type S if you believe the advertised numbers. The MPPSK track option lifted the stock 440i 3.0 DOHC I6 to 355BHP advertised same as the Type-S. As a teaser 355BHP advertised produced this on my cars internal performance monitor. No roll out in the system so its a pure street start. All runs between 3.9 & 4.1.
The car weighed 3710 lb & with the Type-S expected to be a bit heavier will a 4.4 or so be possible?
My guess is the Type S will be high 4's to low 5's for 0-60. I just dont see it dipping that low with all the weight.
BMW heavily discounts their cars so that's not really an issue. My M340i Is nearly loaded minus the Laser Lights and I got it for $59K after rebates and incentives. I have every option I want and did a custom build. If price of the Type S is in this range which it will be, there is no reason at all to get a Type S unless you just like how it looks more than the BMW because it certainly won't be as fast.
I don't really pay attention to new car prices, but does BMW discount a brand new model that heavily, pre-release?
If not, then it's not apples to apples comparison. You can't compare MSRP of a car that's not released, and then use the pricing of a discounted old model that has been out for a while to compare.
It they do, then what the hell is the point with the MSRP?
Be careful not to mix Canadian pricing with US pricing. TLX Type S is expected to retail in the low 50's in the US (Tony's from Canada). Once the demand settles down, the Type S should easily discount below $50k down the road, maintaining similar deltas b/w the Acura and BMW retail pricing.
thanks for clarifying. You are 100% right. My apologies to not mention the $CAD. Sometimes it gets misleading. After 6 months TLX TYPE S will be discounted too. It's not a Ferrari after all. It's an Acura
I don't really pay attention to new car prices, but does BMW discount a brand new model that heavily, pre-release?
If not, then it's not apples to apples comparison. You can't compare MSRP of a car that's not released, and then use the pricing of a discounted old model that has been out for a while to compare.
It they do, then what the hell is the point with the MSRP?
If you do enough research, lots of BMW owners get steep discounts on brand new models. They build them the way they want as well. That's been the broken record around here with the TLX-S from pricing to options to performance.
After 6 months TLX TYPE S will be discounted too. It's not a Ferrari after all. It's an Acura
I don't think it will even take 6 months TBH. Just because it's a Type S doesn't magically change the industry-panned TrueTouch interface or the odd proportions that others have noted (though most buyers for this specific car may finally put a stop to the "rear is too small" comments).
Maybe it's different in Canada, but here in the states, Audi dealers should have some 2021 S5-SB as Premium-Plus. However, if you are looking for Prestige ... I suggest you just go ahead and custom-build/order it. Those are rare and not likely to be "your color" anyway. Anyway, with custom-build you can add whatever else you like on the build-sheet.
Same here up North, a few Pluses available but only 6 Prestige in all of Quebec. Information is live from Audi, just came back from a S5 SB test drive. Fabulous car, it's only a question of when at this point. Functionality, performance, exhaust note. All lovely. Now to find one, that's the problem. But production should pickup soon, they'll keep me in the loop.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 03-25-2021 at 05:44 PM.
I don't think it will even take 6 months TBH. Just because it's a Type S doesn't magically change the industry-panned TrueTouch interface or the odd proportions that others have noted (though most buyers for this specific car may finally put a stop to the "rear is too small" comments).
I think my biggest issue with the proportions is actually that the front is too long (that’s what she said). BMW was able to tuck an I6 under the hood (and the engine is still accessible for servicing), so I don’t see what the need is for the giant beak.
Hopefully pricing doesn’t go the way of the CTR. Unfortunately, if you live in an area where Acura’s sell well (like me), it’s probably going to be quite a while before seeing these at MSRP, let alone discounted.
well the stock 10 spd in the accord can handle those numbers. Final P600 Dyno Testing (Accord & Type-R) - PRL Army BlogHow much more the “beefed” up 10 spd in the Type-S can handle is anyone’s guess. Hopefully they will over engineer it.
Thx for posting that link to the dyno testing, those were some pretty good numbers.
Agree on anyone's guess for the 10AT power/torque numbers outside of Honda, inside Honda guessing engineer Tom Sladek knows those numbers, heck probably knows them for every gear.
Honda R&D transmission engineer Tom Sladek as viewed from the differential end of the new 10-speed. He promises "beautifully smooth" and rapid gear changes. (Lindsay Brooke photo)
I don't really pay attention to new car prices, but does BMW discount a brand new model that heavily, pre-release?
If not, then it's not apples to apples comparison. You can't compare MSRP of a car that's not released, and then use the pricing of a discounted old model that has been out for a while to compare.
It they do, then what the hell is the point with the MSRP?
Because MSRP is a start point for the big dance & some dummies actually pay it or close to it.
Yes, my 2018 F series 440i MPPSK was ordered in April 2017 delivered in June 2017 was just over 10% discounted OTD. Discount did not include other items I got outside of the dealer negotiations including, rebate for unused lease miles from BMWFS, Performance Center Delivery & a $1000 rebate from the BMWCCA. It was a new generation & replaced my E series 435 MPPK/PE.
I bought the car before it started production & BMW extended the 435 lease on a month to month basis till the 440 was delivered. Repeat customers can usually expect to be well treated by BMW finance with low rates & rebate incentives. Would have bought a 2021 M4 if it had a different front end, went with the Z4 M40i instead. Z4 M40 was about 16% off MSRP, a 2020 MY car in March 2020.
Daughter is going M4 convertible despite the pig nose because she only drives convertibles with manual transmissions & likes the rest of the car. I will most likely change the nose to an after market piece for her.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 03-26-2021 at 12:40 PM.
Be careful not to mix Canadian pricing with US pricing. TLX Type S is expected to retail in the low 50's in the US (Tony's from Canada). Once the demand settles down, the Type S should easily discount below $50k down the road, maintaining similar deltas b/w the Acura and BMW retail pricing.
I keep forgetting some of you are in Canada. Thanks for the reminder. lol.
I don't really pay attention to new car prices, but does BMW discount a brand new model that heavily, pre-release?
If not, then it's not apples to apples comparison. You can't compare MSRP of a car that's not released, and then use the pricing of a discounted old model that has been out for a while to compare.
It they do, then what the hell is the point with the MSRP?
They do actually, before COVID it was pretty normal to get a steep discount on brand new models. Even the New G80's people are getting 6%-7% off.
In any comparison on price I would knock a quick 10% off a BMW MSRP. Personally have always done better than minus 10% OTD on everyone I got going back to 2004 including a 2018 pre-order 440i-MPPSK. IIRC the MSRP with the MPPSK was $62,000 paid in the lower $54,000 range.
Some commonality with the Type S if you believe the advertised numbers. The MPPSK track option lifted the stock 440i 3.0 DOHC I6 to 355BHP advertised same as the Type-S. As a teaser 355BHP advertised produced this on my cars internal performance monitor. No roll out in the system so its a pure street start. All runs between 3.9 & 4.1.
The car weighed 3710 lb & with the Type-S expected to be a bit heavier will a 4.4 or so be possible?
I'm thinking the Type S will be a 4.5-4.6 second car, it's going to probably feel on par with the Q50/60 Red Sport. I'm curious how the Honda Transmission will hold up since I've always had issues with my Tranny's on honda's. Especially once you start to tune them. I'm still waiting for the DME to be cracked on the 21 G20's. I want a flash tune already, it's crazy the 2020's can be tuned but not the 21's. A simple $1200 tune on the 20's is getting people 470 WHP.
I'm thinking the Type S will be a 4.5-4.6 second car, it's going to probably feel on par with the Q50/60 Red Sport. I'm curious how the Honda Transmission will hold up since I've always had issues with my Tranny's on honda's. Especially once you start to tune them. I'm still waiting for the DME to be cracked on the 21 G20's. I want a flash tune already, it's crazy the 2020's can be tuned but not the 21's. A simple $1200 tune on the 20's is getting people 470 WHP.
The B58 is such an incredible engine. This guy has the same 2019 X3 M40i as I do but he's running a stage 1 JB plus tune with an intake while i'm on a stage 1 (93 octane) reflash tune. I'm still debating on doing the catted high flow downpipe with stage 2 tune.
He nailed 0-60 in 4.06 and 1/4 in 12.4
The 2020 X3 M40i have the revised B58 engine with more power (same engine as the M340i). They can nail just under 4 sec 0-60 stock. These things are underrated and it's no joke. I bought my X3 M40i, nearly fully loaded, extended warranty out the door for $47,XXX. Slightly used CPO. It's was a no brainier for me. Practical vehicle, great fuel economy, killer performance, ton of aftermarket support and it's fun to drive.
I also believe the G70 will beat the TLX Type S in 0-60, especially since it's similar to the KIA Stinger GT (which is another Type S killer). However, I'm thinking the TLX would be much better in handling, especially with the SHAWD. It will probably boil down to are you chasing 0-60 or handling (important as a daily commuter)?
Originally Posted by SergeyM
Why would a front-heavy FWD car handle better that a RWD car? Looks like you put to much trust in SH-AWD acronym.
Whatever advantage SH-AWD may have will be mitigated by the G70's shorter wheelbase, lighter weight (esp. if go with RWD) and better weight balance.
Best thing is for OP to test drive both and see which one suits him more.
I watched a ton of video reviews from professional reviewers comparing the TLX to other makes (Genesis among them) and the handling from Acura is universally loved on the SHAWD.
I've driven a RWD 3-series, 4MATIC C-Class, 4MATIC E-Class, and Quattro A6 3.0. I'm currently leasing a '21 TLX A-Spec SHAWD.
What do I know? I'm just some guy posting on forums...
The G70 is ranked #2 by C/D and the TLX, 9th.
MT also ranks the G70 2nd (taking out non-ICE like the Model 3), with the TLX 7th.
But of course, wouldn't take what they say as gospel - everyone has their own individual preferences, and in this highly competitive segment, there really aren't many bad choices.
For the best handler in the segment, go with the Giulia.
The Acura will have better aftermarket all day every day than the Genesis. And Dare I say in 2-4 years it will have 750+hp kits on the market. If you Dont believe me look up the P600 bolt on turbo kit for the Type-R, Accord and RDX. Im jiust hoping the transmission can handle
Don't be too sure of that.
The Stinger has pretty wide aftermarket support - most of which can be used on the G70.
Plus, think Albert Biermann and his team know a little something about engineering performance vehicles.
Originally Posted by ELIN
The TLX exterior is luxury mid-size (very comparable to A6/A7) but it's the interior space that has more in common with its compact segment it competes in (like the G70).
The TLX is 10" longer than the '21 G70. I can't imagine the next gen '22 G70 changing much from the current model dimension-wise.
Don't be surprised if the next G70 gets a WB in line with the GV70 (which can comfortably seat a 6-footer behind a 6 footer).
Originally Posted by Drei
no comparison - $60k on a Hyundai? hard pass
Type S 100%
Originally Posted by leomio85
$60k on a Honda? Hard pass.
And only one of them has a proper lux RWD/longitudinal layout.
I really liked the G70 when I test drove it a few months ago. It was nice all around, but tight inside. Seeing the new TLX is a big car with small interior the interior is a wash. I do like the current Gu0, but the 22 gets a front/rear refresh and larger infotainment. As mush as a year ago I was hoping to get a Type-S seeing the possible price point and fact I only put 13.5K miles on my 19 ASPEC I am moving to an EV. Have a ID.4 AWD on order, now the wait until late this year.
I just traded my 2017 BMW 540 M-Sport today for a 2021 G70 3.3 Sport. My drive home was about 60 miles of freeway and straight country roads. Too early to have a solid opinion, But I do feel like I’m driving a far sportier car. I have some great roads right outside my neighborhood that I ride my sport bikes on a lot. I admit I never felt the desire to take the 540 out on them (I’ve only lived here a month), but I do plan to take the G70 out there soon, very soon. It feels more the part.
I’ll update on this thread. And I should point out that I have owned several true Sports Cars.
I am moving to an EV. Have a ID.4 AWD on order, now the wait until late this year.
Very cool.
Pretty sure the Audi version is to be Q4-Sportback-Quattro . Looks like it might be a 2022 after all., but even when it was to be a 2021 ... I was tired of waiting to buy a new car. Still not sure I'm down with pure-EV. After that no-power Texas winter-storm, makes you think a bit more. We love our Q5-e Hybrid. An A5/S5 50mile 200hp+100hp=300hp PHEV coupe would be perfect for me. Let's see what they have in a few years.
I just traded my 2017 BMW 540 M-Sport today for a 2021 G70 3.3 Sport. My drive home was about 60 miles of freeway and straight country roads. Too early to have a solid opinion, But I do feel like I’m driving a far sportier car. I have some great roads right outside my neighborhood that I ride my sport bikes on a lot. I admit I never felt the desire to take the 540 out on them (I’ve only lived here a month), but I do plan to take the G70 out there soon, very soon. It feels more the part.
I’ll update on this thread. And I should point out that I have owned several true Sports Cars.
Curious why you didn't wait for the 2022 G70 since it should be here soon. Don't like the redesign?
Curious why you didn't wait for the 2022 G70 since it should be here soon. Don't like the redesign?
yeah both Acura and genesis just saying soon, “spring.” Acura is saying end of may finally but my dealer said that’s like 1 or 2 for showroom and production purchase models will be end of June. Genesis staying tight lipped still with release and pricing.
I just traded my 2017 BMW 540 M-Sport today for a 2021 G70 3.3 Sport. My drive home was about 60 miles of freeway and straight country roads. Too early to have a solid opinion, But I do feel like I’m driving a far sportier car. I have some great roads right outside my neighborhood that I ride my sport bikes on a lot. I admit I never felt the desire to take the 540 out on them (I’ve only lived here a month), but I do plan to take the G70 out there soon, very soon. It feels more the part.
I’ll update on this thread. And I should point out that I have owned several true Sports Cars.
The B58 is such an incredible engine. This guy has the same 2019 X3 M40i as I do but he's running a stage 1 JB plus tune with an intake while i'm on a stage 1 (93 octane) reflash tune. I'm still debating on doing the catted high flow downpipe with stage 2 tune.
He nailed 0-60 in 4.06 and 1/4 in 12.4
The 2020 X3 M40i have the revised B58 engine with more power (same engine as the M340i). They can nail just under 4 sec 0-60 stock. These things are underrated and it's no joke. I bought my X3 M40i, nearly fully loaded, extended warranty out the door for $47,XXX. Slightly used CPO. It's was a no brainier for me. Practical vehicle, great fuel economy, killer performance, ton of aftermarket support and it's fun to drive.
Yes, the straight 6 BMW M Tuned is simply on a league of its own, performance wise, compared to its competition, first of all, it is underrated by at least 50 horses in my book.
The only real car that can hang with or even occasionally beat an M340i for less money in the Charger Scat Pack, all the M340i competitors are simply slower. The Type S, I suspect, will not be even close...considering the size difference I would even hardly call it a competitor, the new TLX is similar to what the 4G was, almost a value competitor to the 5 Series more than the 3 Series.
Yes, the straight 6 BMW M Tuned is simply on a league of its own, performance wise, compared to its competition, first of all, it is underrated by at least 50 horses in my book.
The only real car that can hang with or even occasionally beat an M340i for less money in the Charger Scat Pack, all the M340i competitors are simply slower. The Type S, I suspect, will not be even close...considering the size difference I would even hardly call it a competitor, the new TLX is similar to what the 4G was, almost a value competitor to the 5 Series more than the 3 Series.
You're not kidding either. Seems a lot of the B58 engines are under rated by such numbers. the Z4 and Supra both have a lot more torque than BMW claims. Sneaky Germans.. 100% correct on the M340i. The M340i In late 2022 into 2023 will get it's mid cycle update. Interested to know what additional performance it will get. likely some hybrid assistance.
Originally Posted by jjsC5
I just traded my 2017 BMW 540 M-Sport today for a 2021 G70 3.3 Sport. My drive home was about 60 miles of freeway and straight country roads. Too early to have a solid opinion, But I do feel like I’m driving a far sportier car. I have some great roads right outside my neighborhood that I ride my sport bikes on a lot. I admit I never felt the desire to take the 540 out on them (I’ve only lived here a month), but I do plan to take the G70 out there soon, very soon. It feels more the part.
I’ll update on this thread. And I should point out that I have owned several true Sports Cars.
I just traded my 2017 BMW 540 M-Sport today for a 2021 G70 3.3 Sport. My drive home was about 60 miles of freeway and straight country roads. Too early to have a solid opinion, But I do feel like I’m driving a far sportier car. I have some great roads right outside my neighborhood that I ride my sport bikes on a lot. I admit I never felt the desire to take the 540 out on them (I’ve only lived here a month), but I do plan to take the G70 out there soon, very soon. It feels more the part.
I’ll update on this thread. And I should point out that I have owned several true Sports Cars.
To answer a couple of questions, I did want to wait for the 2022, but it was about timing and money. I think the new design looks a little forced, and I got a great deal on the 2021. That was important to me right now. I just spent a lot of money on a a big move.
Where I live now is very close to some phenomenal roads that I ride my sport bikes on a few times a week. I’ve had some great cars, my last a 2009 Z06 Corvette that I got rid of nine years ago. So it’s been a while since I’ve driven a car on good winding roads. I should mention that I road raced motorcycles back in the day, and I’ve done some auto crossing and drag racing cars over the years.
This morning I took the G70 on a 150 mile ride on very lightly traveled roads that have many miles of what people now refer to as very “technical” winding roads. I was absolutely blown away by how well the car handles. I’m sure that some of the competitors that get mentioned in this forum would impress me also. I’m not in a position to speak for how the competitors would stack up. But I was pushing hard enough to know that the G70 sport is one hell of a car. Especially impressive for a car I had owned for less than 24 hours. At the same time it rides better than my 540 did, and is loaded with features.
BTW,I hate black wheels, but the dealer would not swap them for the wheels on one of his Prestige cars, and I had to have the “Sport”. I’d like to put some aftermarket wheels on it, but I have other financial priorities. And much to my amazement, my wife likes these. I guess they make me look younger at least
BTW,I hate black wheels, but the dealer would not swap them for the wheels on one of his Prestige cars, and I had to have the “Sport”. I’d like to put some aftermarket wheels on it, but I have other financial priorities. And much to my amazement, my wife likes these. I guess they make me look younger at least
Looks great! Congrats. The seats are amazing. Enjoy!
BTW,I hate black wheels, but the dealer would not swap them for the wheels on one of his Prestige cars, and I had to have the “Sport”. I’d like to put some aftermarket wheels on it, but I have other financial priorities. And much to my amazement, my wife likes these. I guess they make me look younger at least
Looks perfect to drive on the back roads to SaltLick for some barbeque.
03-25-2021, 12:21 PM
