neuronbob

The Sport Hybrid system is ahead of its time, and people are simply not gelling on it. Looks like it's going away for now other than the NSX. It's really too bad, the system is really quite good and it made the RLX into a super-secret sleeper. The new TLX is the wrong bed for the tech--it's already quite heavy, and with the batteries, I could see it topping out at 4300-4400 pounds based on the weight of the system in the RLX.

AcuraGuy2016

Stupid decision by Acura. Sport Hybrid was a great way to have both performance and improve efficiency and potentially improve CAFE fleet average without sacrificing performance. It was unique in the industry. A true innovative competitive advantage.

I would have bought an RLX SH in addition to my current MDX SH had Acura done nothing more than put the same infotainment that was in the 2018-2020 TLX and MDX. I could have overlooked the soft suspension, but not the dinosaur infotainment. I WANTED to buy one, but just couldn't do it. Foolish of Acura to use something from a 2013 Honda Accord infotainment in a 2020 RLX, when Honda already upgraded the Accord infotainment twice.

Given the future direction of Acura, will likely look elsewhere. I really hate the trackpad and their newer vehicles have relatively poor fuel economy vs. performance. If forced to buy today from 2021/2022 MY, would be between Audi and Genesis.

Edward'TLS

For Acura, the concept of hybrid system is to add power to existing maxed-out (naturally aspirated [NA]) engine packages, rather than to use larger NA engine displacement to generate more horsepowers for high performance vehicle applications.

The Acura hybrid system emphasizes more on engine output performance than fuel economy, whereas the Honda hybrid system, fuel economy than engine output performance.

Since that the new turbo-V6 engine, which generates comparable total engine output as the hybrid-V6, can now be used in high performance top model trims, the purpose of hybrid power becomes moot.

If CAFE average is the main concern, a dedicated plug in vehicle, like Tesla, is the best candidate to be added into the Acura lineup.

ELIN

If you're referencing the latest 2.0L turbo-4 engine, it actually has more torque and slight better fuel economy than the previous V6. It's an improvement for Acura but far from class leading.

Lest I forget, the Genesis G70 fuel economy is actually worse with 20 ft-lb less torque.

AcuraGuy2016

I'm not ready for a plug in vehicle - infrastructure is not there in my region or house. I want a gasoline hybrid vehicle that also has excellent performance. Most hybrid vehicles have abysmal performance, relatively speaking. Sport Hybrid was amazing in that regard. It was unique.

mrgold35

One big advantage of the sport-hybrid powertrain is the all weather handling and stability from having 4 drive motors. The sport hybrid system in its current form only adds around 200lbs above the sh-awd system (minus 200lbs sh-awd, plus 400lbs hybrid system). I sometimes enable the power distribution monitor on the navi screen and the hybrid powertrain is doing every combination for NA V-6+EV+tq vectoring+regen braking+zero power modes for the smoothest power delivery in any driving situation. The only side effect is you happen to get good mpgs and the same DTE range in city or hwy driving.

The hybrid powertrain is invisible in my MDX hybrid; except, for the orange wrapped power cables under the hood. I end up getting better performance and handling compared to the 3.5L MDXs from the extra hp/tq, tq vectoring w/ or w/o V-6 power, regen braking, electronic dampers, and the lower center of gravity of the hybrid components offsets the extra 200lbs. Without going with a dedicated EV platform like Tesla or the NSX, it is extremely difficult to add/hide EV components in a combustion engine coupe/sedan without doing more harm than good.

I'm thinking Acura/Honda will need a dedicated EV platform that happens to have gas engine for add hp/tq, recharging battery pack along w/ plug-in option, and extended gas range when EV power is gone compared to shoehorning in EV components to anything in its current line-up. The XC90 plug-in hybrid might be my next vehicle if Acura skips the hybrid for the 4th Gen model run for the next 5-7 years.

AcuraGuy2016

Does the latest T4 really have better fuel economy than the previous V6 in real world driving conditions? The standard US government fuel economy test keeps turbos out of boost for most of the testing, which makes them rate much better than real world conditions. Also the current V6 gets fantastic highway mileage, much better than its ratings. I get > 35 mpg highway in my V6 TLX FWD.

Agree that Genesis fuel economy needs improvement.

ELIN

The problem with the SH is a global problem for Acura: marketing. I've never seen a commercial for one of their SH vehicles and nothing that would even lead me to be aware of such an option. Does Acura expect to only sell to forum members?!!!

ELIN

I can't comment on real world driving economy for T4 vs V6. I was only commenting on the paper numbers.

On my 2nd tank of gas, my 2G AWD TLX is getting 24.6 mpg on combo city/hwy driving.

fiatlux

Even on these forums plenty of people get confused about what SH is, how much it costs, what it’s like, etc. It’s no wonder the general public has absolutely zero awareness of it. Almost makes me wonder if this was an engineering exercise for them and they had no real intentions of selling them in large numbers.

Edward'TLS

I agree with you.

I believe if Acura is really into selling the Sport-Hybrid MDX in large numbers, it would have killed the mechanical SH-AWD MDX when the Sport-Hybrid MDX became available.

Don't confuse buyers with too many choices. You want AWD, voila, here's the Sport-Hybrid AWD MDX for you.

jdpdata

[QUOTE=AcuraGuy2016;16668467
I would have bought an RLX SH in addition to my current MDX SH had Acura done nothing more than put the same infotainment that was in the 2018-2020 TLX and MDX. I could have overlooked the soft suspension, but not the dinosaur infotainment. I WANTED to buy one, but just couldn't do it. Foolish of Acura to use something from a 2013 Honda Accord infotainment in a 2020 RLX, when Honda already upgraded the Accord infotainment twice.
[/QUOTE]

I installed GROM VLine2 into my RLX SH last weekend and I absolutely love it! It solved the dated infotainment issue for me. Navigating the menus with rotary knob is not the best experience, but it is usable.

fiatlux

Just as bad as too many choices, they overloaded the same acronyms and used similar badges. The Sport-Hybrid AWD MDX got a SH-AWD badge where the SH is blue. The normal Super-Handling AWD MDX got a similar looking SH-AWD with the only difference the SH is not blue. In fact, I'll admit that it wasn't even until a couple years after SH cars first came out that I discovered what Sport Hybrid actually was and that it isn't just regular SH-AWD with a normal IMA hybrid powertrain. I thought they just threw the word "Sport" in front of "Hybrid" in the same way that Honda called the CRZ a "Sport Hybrid Coupe" even though it has the same decidedly non-sporty powertrain as the regular Civic Hybrid.

neuronbob

I saw a mention of this in the RLX forum. There is a non-zero likelihood that I go back to a RLX Sport Hybrid, 2018-up, for cheap, and buy the GROM setup for Apple CarPlay.

I had a very early build 2014 Sport Hybrid that I got out of because of weird electrical issues. I would have gotten another had it not been for limited stock. Ended up in a 1G TLX A-Spec instead. Yes, I’m crazy that way. Just waiting to see whether Type S is worth my time. 4 more months...

Tesla1856

That's pretty cool and good-work on the install.

Reminds me of the USA-Spec devices for the old Accords.

One thing though ... does this mean 2020-RLX doesn't have CarPlay support? I know the 2-screen system didn't have it on release back in 2013 ... but I thought around 2017/2018, Acura added it to all models using this head-unit..

mrgold35

No Carplay for any RLX. Acura had to cut corners on the slow selling RLX for the MMC and they left out:
- no carplay
- no electronic dampers with IDS Comfort, Normal, Sport, or Sport+ modes
- no natural wood trim (plastic wood looking stuff only)
- no updated graphics or features for HUD, touch screen, or Navi (same graphics like 14-17 MDX)
- no metal trim around seat controls
- no cell phone remote start with Acuralink app

It is pretty much all about the 377hp/341tq 4.9 second 0-60 hybrid powertrain, no less than 29 mpgs city/hwy (I've seen 34 mpg @ 80 mph), exclusivity, unique styling, 20 lens LED headlights, and Krell audio.

Legend2TL

FWIW, here's a extremely comprehensive YouTube video of the TLX/MLX SH transaxle with the electric motor/generator by Weber State University Professor John Kelly .
Kelly does some phenomenal video's where he explains and shows the operation of actual transmission that are taken apart.

mrgold35

Thanks for video!

That was the best explanation of the hybrid's 7DCT inner workings I've seen. Never knew it was really a 6DCT with the direct drive electric motor acting as 1st gear. That explains why the hybrids always start in 2nd gear unless you force it into 1st gear. I can see the amount of engineering (and cost) going into making all that work together with DC inverter, battery pack, rear twin motor units, and computer system(s) to manage it all. The Acura hybrid system has to cost way more than the $1500 premium over the MDX sh-awd system. He just made a mistake with saying the MDX was a fwd hybrid.

My theory is Acura was selling the RLX/MDX hybrids at a loss and only made X amount of units to come close to breaking even. Acura probably did the math like all other vehicle manufacturers and didn't see a market yet at these gas prices to sell large numbers for anything other than a 87-91 octane gas engine. The average buyer isn't ready for diesel, hydrogen, hybrid, plug-in hybrid, or electric vehicles yet until gas prices hit an avg of $4 per gallon nation wide. Add to that the lack of infrastructure for easy accessible diesel/hydrogen/electric power, longer hydrogen refuel/electric recharge times, and range anxiety will make it hard to go mainstream anytime soon.

Acura will still make an CDX hybrid+8DCT for the Chinese market that looks like it is from the Accord hybrid drive system. It will also come in Aspec trim w/ or w/o hybrid powertrain. I don't know if Acura will still provide a 4th Gen MDX or next the Gen RLX/Legend in hybrid flavors for the Asian markets only. I don't know if the old Accord hybrid system would be a alternative for increased hp/tq/mpgs for the TLX+2.0T compared to the MDX/RLX/NSX 400lbs system?

Legend2TL

Go to 22:30, the sun gear of the 1st gear planetary gear set is driven by either the ICE or electric motor. It's confusing to say the least as that gear goes through 5th gear from the odd countershaft to the final drive shaft.

Definitely agree on the cost as the three motors, batteries and power electronics associated with SH probably being more over the mechanical SH-AWD.