EE4Life

2021 Acura TLX Competitive Comparison
http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/20...Comparison.PDF

2021 Acura TLX Competitive Comparison Chart
https://assets.acurainfocenter.com/w...e-chart_v6.pdf
http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/20...ison Chart.PDF

Kense

It's ridiculous how secretive they are with the Type S. It's supposed to be out in a month right? Why are they acting like it's a Lamborghini or something. Just release the info already.

mcrompton

No, Type-S is in the spring. All other models are next month.

Neoforever

This is great info. The most surprising thing I learned is that only Genesis has a SH-AWD equivalent (Torque Vectoring AWD) available.

Without dynamic torque vectoring, can xDrive or Quattro really keep up at cornering?

Is Genesis AWD really comparable to SH-AWD?

AcuraGuy2016

I'm VERY seriously considering a Genesis, especially if Acura cheaps out again on the NVH road noise like they did on the modern RDX. I like a good blend of luxury and actual true performance - not just sporty perception...FWIW the old V6 RDX was actually faster to 60 and faster passing.. but the new one "feels" more sporty.

I REALLY hope the new non type-S TLX isn't slower to 60 and highway passing than the current V6 ZF TLX. That and NVH would drive me to Genesis. I love Audi but dont want a money pit and dont want to live at a dealer, especially these days.

EE4Life

Added 2021 Acura TLX Competitive Comparison Chart.

Vicious Type S

Its such a joke that the Sentra has 360 Camera but the TLX-S won't. Tf is wrong with them, it's not new tech, why would you put your model to have less features than a Sentra or Elantra.

BEAR-AvHistory

Question is how is a car that is so much bigger on the outside so much smaller on the inside than the BMW 3 including the trunk 13.5 vs 17.0 CuFt ? Seems they forgot the part where the people sit in the BMW 5 series & other upper range compare.

For buyer with a big interest in gas mileage the EPA range numbers also suck especially since the TL has a slightly bigger tank.
Range on full tank/charge (miles/EPA combined) TLX 398 (FWD); 382 (AWD) BMW 330i 468 (RWD); 437 (AWD)

leomio85

I want more power and performance out of an alleged performance sedan, but this is the type of bullshit complaint Acura is actually going to listen to for their refresh.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Haha wait til you go and build a Porsche.

mojo_79

BMW xDrive has torque vectoring.

Tesla1856

As does Audi's quattro.

BEAR-AvHistory

FWIW Most upscale 4X4 have torque vectoring they just don't ID the rear end with a unique name like Acura does. Same goes for the famous vTec. Other brands had similar variable valve lift systems most on all 4 valves & some before Honda pushed it as a branded item with side panel decals but on only one set of valves.

4G-Lover

Actually I do not think most upscale 4X4 have Torque vectoring at least not active Torque Vectoring unless they are special version (meaning M for BMW, AMG for Mercedes or RS for Audi), when they do they usually mention in the specs the "Sport differential". Brake based Torque Vectoring is a cheap not as effective workaround mostly a marketing ploy.

As far as I remember, only Alfa Romeo preceded Honda for the first production car with a variable valve timing in the early 1980s, only one model (the Alfetta 2000 Elettronica) and it had some issues that did lead to its discontinuation. Honda perfected the technology and it made it widely available by the end of the 1980s.
Porsche was the first of the Germans in 1992 so you are wrong, Honda was in fact a trailblazer in variable valve timing technology and definitely so in Torque Vectoring.

bilirubin

Lexus' self-proclaimed "torque-vectoring" on the new ES250 is actually just inner wheel braking (which Acura also has and calls "Agile Handling Assist"), it's not real torque-vectoring like Acura's SH-AWD.

BEAR-AvHistory

Could be wrong, sure you can find out but believe the Double Vanos system came out before honda moved from a single set of variable tined valves & the other set normal at the time non variable valves for Acura.

The initial version (retrospectively renamed "single VANOS") was solely used on the intake camshaft, while the later in 1996 the "double VANOS" systems are used on intake and exhaust camshafts. Honda also applied the system to SOHC (single overhead camshaft) engines such as the D-Series and J-Series Engines, which share a common camshaft for both intake and exhaust valves. The trade-off was that Honda's SOHC engines benefited from the VTEC mechanism only on the intake valves. This is because VTEC requires a third center rocker arm and cam lobe (for each intake and exhaust side), and, in the SOHC engine, the spark plugs are situated between the two exhaust rocker arms, leaving no room for the VTEC rocker arm. Additionally, the center lobe on the camshaft cannot be utilized by both the intake and the exhaust, limiting the VTEC feature to one side.

However, beginning with the J37A2 3.7L SOHC V6 engine introduced on all 2009-2012 Acura RL SH-AWD models, SOHC VTEC was incorporated for use with intake and exhaust valves, using a total of six cam lobes and six rocker arms per cylinder.

BEAR-AvHistory

Could be wrong, sure you can find out but believe the Double Vanos system came out before honda moved from a single set of variable timed valves & the other set normal at the time non variable valves in Acura.

The initial BMW version in 1992 (retrospectively renamed "single VANOS") was solely used on the intake camshaft, while the later in 1996 the "double VANOS" systems are used on intake and exhaust camshafts. Honda also applied the system to SOHC (single overhead camshaft) engines such as the D-Series and J-Series Engines, which share a common camshaft for both intake and exhaust valves.

The trade-off was that Honda's SOHC engines benefited from the VTEC mechanism only on the intake valves. This is because VTEC requires a third center rocker arm and cam lobe (for each intake and exhaust side), and, in the SOHC engine, the spark plugs are situated between the two exhaust rocker arms, leaving no room for the VTEC rocker arm.

Additionally, the center lobe on the camshaft cannot be utilized by both the intake and the exhaust, limiting the VTEC feature to one side.

Beginning with the J37A2 3.7L SOHC V6 engine introduced on all 2009-2012 Acura RL SH-AWD models, SOHC VTEC was incorporated for use with intake and exhaust valves, using a total of six cam lobes and six rocker arms per cylinder.

KeithL

I know when I bought my 2014 A6 the only way to get torque vectoring was on the S models.

cruiserchuck

Audi’s website is showing the 2021 A4 with 201 hp has a 0-60 time of 6.3 seconds. It looks like the 270 hp TLX will be slower.

Tesla1856

I don't think anyone really buys those with the neutered engines.

The 2021 Audi-A4 with 45-TFSI (2.0T) is 261-hp/273-lb.ft.

fiatlux

It's a combination of:
1) It's probably underrated per the usual with German cars; it's likely making a fair amount more than 201hp.
2) I believe even this base model has launch control
3) It weighs something like 500lb less
4) Audi probably isn't limiting the power in lower gears to protect the driveline like Acura is likely doing

None of this should be that surprising; the same thing happened to the "best-in-class-power" RDX which ended up being one of the slowest in its class.

cruiserchuck

For that engine, Audi lists a 0-60 time of 5.2.

I suspect the majority of buyers in Europe go with the lower hp engine, due to higher MPG. In Southern California, dealers seemed to sell more of the A4s with the lower hp engine than the higher hp engine. I leased a 2017 A4 with 188 hp, and really liked the car. I would be more interested in the new TLX if they offered a smaller engine with higher MPG. I guess I may have to wait for the new ILX model.

4G-Lover

You are talking about 1990s already...Honda offered VTEC already at the end of the 1980s, before the Germans. We are not discussing if the variable timing was only on the intake or on both but who first started and Honda did preceded the Germans both on variable valve timing and Torque Vectoring.

BEAR-AvHistory

OK my bad, give HONDA some points for early adoption. The thing I remember however is my 2004 BMW had double vanos (intake & exhaust) & my 2006 TL had single intake valves only. Guess you notice more things when its your car.

Tesla1856

IIRC, my 1987 Accord 2-dr Hatchback was one of the first models with electronic-ignition and VTEC. It's that when VTEC started ... the first models without carburetors ?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Honda's original VTEC is a cam-changing VVT, and it's different than BMW Vanos, which is a cam PHASING VVT.

Cam-changing VVT allows for powerful top end power which we have seen in various Honda models from way back in the 90's. It's also a complex system.

Cam-phasing VVT is a relatively simple and cheap system, and improves torque delivery across the rev range (cam-changing VVT doesn't really improve torque). It doesn't have variable lift and valve opening duration though, so less top end power as cam-changing VVT.

The more modern system is one that combines both cam-changing VVT and cam-phasing VVT. So it also has the benefits of both system (lift the whole torque curve up, and allows for more top end power). And as one could imagine, it's also more complex and expensive. Honda i-VTEC, Porsche Variocam Plus, Toyota VVTL-i are some examples.

Anyways, so Alex on Auto did an actual acceleration test and got 5.7s in the TLX. Faster than I expected given that the TLX is heavier than the norm, has no launch control, and does not allow for aggressive brake torquing.

rlx015

I wonder why are they not putting the same models from the Competitive Comparison table into the Competitive Chart...
The second piece also that would be very embarrassing for them is to list 0-60 and 1/4 qt mile times...

Cannot wait for true owners and reviewers to post their stuff on Youtube...

cruiserchuck

I believe Accords still had carburetors in 1992. I almost bought one to replace my 84 Accord, but ended up getting the new model Civic, which had switched to the "new" technology of fuel injection. I bought the top of the line Civiv EX, which did not include as standard items such as a radio, AC, glove box lock, etc. My 84 Accord hatchback was a great car, even with only 86 hp.

rlx015

What is there to be said when you can find BRAND NEW 2020 BMW 540i Xdrive (w convenience package) for 53k brand new (1k miles on odometer) for 53k ... an all that in Midwest where generally cars are bit more expensive.

shorturl.at/oTV69

2021 TLX has NOTHING TO HOPE FOR with the deals of this kind...

fiatlux

Now that the full configurator is out on the US site, should we be comparing the TLX to an A4 40, or A4 45? Seems like on paper, the power figures suggest it should be compared against the 45, but in terms of how that translates into acceleration, it should be compared with the 40.

Mak P

The 2021 540i Xdrive is out though and start at 60k though, add that "convenience package" and its 62. Nowhere near the price of a fully loaded TLX

rlx015

Right... point is: find that I posted above still shows how hard of a market it is and that TLX will be problematic to sell... no one... NO ONE will make sense out of paying 4 cyl engine near 50k price tag... you'll see...

Tesla1856

It is expensive, but people ARE buying $50k vehicles ... Audi's for example. Many of them have 4-cylinder engines now.

And it's not HP either because my old Accord-V6 is only 240hp and it is quick and fast.

The problem appears to be Hondas implementation of the technology.

AcuraFan1980

Audis though, I can FEEL the difference while driving making it justified for that little extra pricing... ( note I haven’t bought one but have driven them )

Love Acura but there is definitely a difference in the drive between the two.

Vicious Type S

They clearly lean towards that Korean dick imo.

And if True Touch can avoid my screens from looking like this, im all for it! Whats a few minutes of a learning curve compared to the amount of time you have to stare at this mess.

pyrodan007

I did say the K5 AWD would be a competitor. And shame on Acura for putting shit tires on the TLX, K5 had no noise on corners even if not really a sports car. And Kia's marketing is pretty cool showing actual stunts, instead of Acura always showing the phantom Type-S footage.
If people really don't care about 0-60, this could be a good alternative. Back seat looks generous.

Tesla1856

So, should I get a TouchPad for my phone and tablet, or just the car ?

Do you think Tesla and the others should install TouchPads and knobs to prevent this travesty?

Vicious Type S

58k CAD Aspec

70k+ if you get home charger


Yes... I think you should. Maybe not for cellphones but this isn't GSMAreana now is it?

Physical buttons and knobs forces you to design a good looking and functional layout. And you can actually use a lot of them without looking at it while driving, touchscreens have its purpose of course but if you ask me specifically about Tesla, it's a cheap way to throw everything in 1 screen, and then make you go through sub menus to find things that coulda been done with a quick button or knob. And then your interior looks boring as heck.

SebringSilver

If Tesla figures out how to do “luxury”, their cars would be amazing. You guys should check out the Audi eTron Sportback.

ESHBG

I saw a K5 in person the the other day, same blue color. Very sharp looking car up close.

With each new release from competitors and "lesser" brands it makes this TLX look even more like a total disaster, particularly the pricing.