richii0207

I too came from a 2019 CW FK8 to a Type S! I miss the manual at times along with the handling but towards the end of the ownership I found myself driving in comfort most of the time which made me want to have something more comfortable.

caLiTLX

The handling of the FK8 is definitely awesome, the vehicle is light and nimble - one of the best handling vehicles I’ve ever owned. The TLX gives me the sportiness I need when I want, but also can be comfortable and quiet too - the active exhaust is great; I had previously added an exhaust to my FK8 and then regretted doing so, the added interior noise kind of bothered me.

BEAR-AvHistory

Yeah also expect many of those 2006 & up BMW's are also gone. Think the new go round is the 628K Acura/Honda 2019/2020 fuel pump recall with dead pumps. The impellers that pressurize the fuel are breaking. Guess Honda/Acura is now getting a taste of the loads put on fuel pumps in turbo charged cars that others learned about 13/14 years ago when they went turbo. As I said everybody has issues.

BTW thought the M4C in the snow was a good vid regardless of the cars brand. The Converts are all 503BHP AWD but the guy put it into RWD to play in the snow. Its a real slick package. Totally decuples the front wheel drive portion & become a true rear wheel drive car. Just a bit more weight than the standard versions, but still pretty much 50/50 on balance. System was pioneered on the M5.

Should eventually filter down to the regular 3/4 series cars. Will be something to consider when you get to that point.

mike03a3

Dude, that was 10 years ago!!

mike03a3

Well, my 3G TL, an '07 Type-S is still on the road. Fairly low mileage @ 125K. Before I retired I often road my Harley to work, weather permitting, so that saved it ~50K miles. Then I spent much of 2019 and 2020 in Berlin.

It's had all the maintenance and runs great. But it suffers from the standard issue cracked dash that Acura won't replace and a GPS that has the same clock issue as every other Nav equipped pre 2013 Honda and Acura vehicle, thinking it's 2002. Honda won't fix that either.

It'll be gone soon. My new car arrived in Baltimore this week. It needs two missing modules (thanks to the component shortages), but they should be installed soon. Then I'll finally get the car I ordered five and a half months ago.

BEAR-AvHistory

Was just trying to match the Acura time frames up with the BMW recalls in the original post byF23A4. BMW post said "According to NHTSA, the recalls cover vehicles built between 2006 and 2013 & fires have been rare". Also my 2006 TL was in the recall for possible fire due to frayed wires IIRC.

Point is if you start pointing fingers eventually you will hit just about every manufacturer.

F23A4

Sorry guys. Poked the bear….uh…no pun intended. (Seriously)

MarcoTLX

well I came from no car technically however I did drive my mom’s 2009 TL from time to time.. which influenced my likeness for this sedan segment, I’m not too deep in my 20s yet so I believe I’ll stay in this segment for many years to come. I’m not big on SUVs but if I wanted or needed to have one I’d definitely pick the MDX

richii0207

One car I’d be terrified to drive would be the Ford Pinto. That thing was a powder keg on wheels

ESHBG

I am for the following reasons:

• Higher seating position - I am finding more and more that because vehicles keep getting taller I can't see red lights when behind most vehicles (and I leave a decent amount of space between them too) and pulling out of parking spaces/in parking garages can suck.
• Practicality - I have had a few cases now where I needed to get help carrying long items or make compromises because they would not fit in my car.
• Trunks - ties into the above point but sedan trunks can be pretty useless when you think about their design and I prefer SUV/hatchback designs (I have owned a hatchback and it was very practical).
• I have never owned one but have driven many and kind of what something different for my next vehicle.
• Better resale.
• Many are now coming more loaded up w/ useful options vs sedans.

What makes me not want an SUV:

• MPG - a hybrid could fix this, but MPG is important to me and I do 90% city driving.
• Tight parking - I am in an urban environment and parking is very tight, a bigger vehicle can be more of a pain.
• Size - I really don't need a big vehicle 95% of the time, as I am the only occupant and not hauling big items regularly.
• Handling - although a sportier version could help with this, it's still a taller vehicle.

norsairius

Had a Mazda CX-9, great 3-row SUV. My wife picked up a RAV-4 though and we didn't feel like we needed 2 SUVs so I wanted to get back into something fun so I got a VW GTI (third one I've had). It was fun, but my older self didn't quite appreciate the more consistently rough ride. Space was surprisingly okay for a family, but more would've been nice.

I really liked having a sporty sedan from when I had a BMW 335, but wanted something more reliable. Many have BMWs with few or no issues, but my 335 had every single common issue discussed in the forums over at Bimmerpost. Landed on Acura as I've generally always liked the brand and my parents have had two RDXes.

TLX has been an amazing commuter and long distance driver for weekend trips, also great for occasional fun. SH-AWD is truly impressive, but is also held back by the mediocre tires that come on the TLX.

I've generally enjoyed the sedans I've had the most, but after having a 2022 MDX for a loaner while my TLX was being serviced, I could see myself considering an SUV again. I find myself more in the middle of the performance/luxury vehicle spectrum these days and Acura seems to deliver vehicles that fit well there at reasonable price for the features you get. We'll see how things go over the next couple years with my TLX.

tlmarc

I wonder how much extra the price of the car will jump for this maintenance package. And I would think they allow the 21/22 to be able to upgrade to it or what not.

bmw catches fire. Why am I not surprised. It’s basically already like a coffin inside. I
guess just speeding up the process

KrylonBlue

Maybe the reason BMW drivers don’t use turn signals is that there is a short that may cause a fire? 😉

In all seriousness the car starting on fire could happen to any manufacturer. Let’s hope we don’t hear about these issues moving forward.

richii0207

I definitely noticed this and was a huge bonus in safety driving a larger SUV. A lift kit may solve some of that. Any takers? Maybe one can even go off-roading with a lifted AWD TLX. 😆

tsxV6

MK7 Golf GTI, I looked at the RDX and Q5/SQ5. The RDX and Q5 just didn't have the extra urgency to go. I'll be honest, had the RDX had a type S version I would've had a much more difficult decision. Why Acura is holding out on that Type S version is a head scratcher. Should've just scrapped the "civic si" and launched the MDX and RDX Type S together.

I feel like an RDX Type S would sell like hot cakes. Looks sporty, nice interior, and paired with the Turbo 6 would be a solid compact SUV.

BEAR-AvHistory

Yeah, stuff happens.

Acura Recalling More TL Sedans over Fire Hazard

BTW TL fires were in same time frame as the BMW fires which the "According to NHTSA, the recalls cover vehicles built between 2006 and 2013 & fires have been rare".

Also my 2006 TL was in the recall for possible fire due to frayed wires. Was either the windshield wipers or heater fan IIRC. Not worth the trouble of looking up my Gen 3 posts, expect I might to trip over my posts about my failed & replaced 6MT @ 22,000 miles.

So in the same time frame on the good side the BMW has moved to a 503BHP 6 & Acura to a 355BHP 6. Only big issue is a spotty record for transmission failures in G1 TLX & a neutered 1st gear performance limitation in 1st gear for the G2 TLX-TypeS.

fiatlux

I feel the same way. The J30AC is not a bad engine; I feel it stacks up well with the EA839 that Audi uses, even if it does fall flat compared to BMW's B58. That said, someone looking for a faster compact crossover isn't going to splits hairs about track times and drag times since it's a crossover, and subjectively at least the RDX is more dynamic and fun to drive than the rest of the competition minus the Macan (and maybe Stelvio...haven't not driven the regular version of that yet). An RDX Type S priced $6K over the RDX A-Spec (just as it is with the TLX Type S) at $54K and I would buy it in a heartbeat, and this is coming from someone who the fanboys have labeled a "hater".

F23A4

Which motor in this segment comes remotely close to the B58 in terms of performance? Along with the accompanying ZF8, it by far is the most potent powertrain of the segment.

Just as an aside, the hater label didnt arise simply because some preferred the [INSERT S4, M340I, G70, ACCORD, CAMRY, ALTIMA, FUSION, PINTO, AZTEC, CORVAIR ETC,...HERE] over the Type S. It came from b e l a b o r i n g the dissension. (For the record, I personally woudnt get a Type S over the M340i, S4 or C43 for similar money.) But if you guys think that Type S are guys are over the top (which they're really not), maybe you should see what comes from the G70 3.3T/Stinger GT crowd who believe they drive the segment benchmark.

richii0207

I’d say the IS500 or CT4V BW has most powerful drivetrain in the segment. Those who want to prioritize performance on their list will find the Cadillac #1 in the segment by a long shot.

F23A4

I said the most potent powertrain. The IS500 falls short of the M340i when putting performance to the pavement...and while I suppose that the CT4 BW matched the M340i, the Model 3 Performance is the best yet, if performance is the ultimate goal. (Betting that the BMW i4....the M340i's newest sibling...will bring it back for BMW.)

All that said, the J30AC shouldnt arbitrarily be held to a higher standard when Audi and MB also fall short of the B58 in this segment; the M340i is an amazingly well tuned machine out of the box. Not to mention returning startling good fuel economy when needed.

richii0207

For M340i price, the CT4V BW is a better performer on the track.

BEAR-AvHistory

Its nice for people to have a choice. Its also nice to see the two BlackWings bringing back a USA mark that can compete with the Euro marks. My last Cadillac was a 1984 Fleetwood Brougham 4 door. Brand pretty much tanked after that.

Corvette C8 has also done well against the exotics & a lot of the guys have them in addition to their exotic as rainy/snowy day cars. My choice of the M4 over the StingRay is the one I will buy was not out yet my be a 23 with 24/25 available after the initial rush.. I want the DOHC V8 DCT package. Won a few bets that a DOHC engine would be released at some time as the first upgrade. Posts are at the Corvette site doing back to 2020.

FWIW the BlackWings got a lot of thumbs up on the M forums. Many there since they can buy whatever they want are not as sensitive to other brands building nice cars. Only one that seems to get their goat is Tesla. Not because its quick, it gets applauded for that but thumbs down because it has no ICE. No ICE no V8 rumble




If you read the why

Kense

LOL When looking at cars I did go over to that forum and it's a hot mess. They are obsessed with the idea that they are disrespected and trash just about everything NOT a Kia.

jjsC5

tsxV6

Congrats on the S4. I’ve owned two A7s so I’m obviously a fan of the brand. Since then I retired, then spent quite a bit of money on a new home. So price was important to me when I bought a new car a year ago. Fortunately I love my loaded G70 3.3 Sport/Prestige. But I will definitely consider an Audi again in a couple of years. Great choice on your part.

jjsC5

I think you are wrong about the price. I just did a 500 mile search on cars.com. The typical (not many) price on the M340 Is low $60s. The typical CTV-4 is mid $70s. Magazine tests I’ve seen have compared it to the M3.

richii0207

That’s odd, maybe those had a lot of accessories added. Here is one I just found. But it does compare to the M3/4 at that price.

BEAR-AvHistory

This is the car that C&D tested at Lightning Laps this year
2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing
Class: LL3 | Base: $67,515 | As Tested: $78,985
Power and Weight: 472 hp • 3902 lb • 8.3 lb/hp
Tires: Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, F: 255/35ZR-18 (94Y) TPC R: 275/35ZR-18 (99Y) TPC.
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 4.0 sec
100 mph: 9.4 sec
1/4-Mile: 12.4 sec @ 116 mph
130 mph: 16.2 sec
150 mph: 23.4 sec
Results above omit 1-ft rollout of 0.2 sec.
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.3 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 9.6 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 7.2 sec
Top Speed (mfr's claim): 189 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 153 ft
Braking, 100–0 mph: 309 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 1.01 g

This is the latest 11/2019? M340 test
2020 BMW M340i
PRICE AS TESTED
$66,820 (base price: $54,995)
C/DTEST RESULTS
Rollout, 1 ft: 0.3 sec
60 mph: 3.8 sec
100 mph: 9.4 sec
150 mph: 24.6 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 4.7 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 2.4 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 2.9 sec
¼-mile: 12.3 sec @ 114 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 156 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 156 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.96 g

Thing is richii0207 you are all wrapped up in price while the people buying these cars aren't. They are buying what they want & can afford. People buying the M340 or Blackwing would have not problem buying a $55,000 TLX Type-S but they either chose not to or it wasn't on their radar. When I did the V build & price on the Cadillac site I came out at a little less money about $74,000 than C&D did. I did choose it they was I would actually buy it.

Saying these cars are more expensive than a TLX is not news to anybody because who really gives a shit what a car costs if you can afford it.

About the add you posted call the up & if you can get the price listed for the car above please yell out & let us all know.

Spoiler - The $59,640 shows up as the base price for the stripped 6MT version not the 10AT ones that C&D tested that are much quicker. Stripped pricing for the M3 base is $70,100, M4 Coupe base is $72,000 & the M4 Convertible base is $86,500. The big Blackwing starts at $83,995. The small Blackwing at $63,115.$70,100

richii0207

Totally agree with what you said there. Someone asked about most potent/powerful engine in the segment and answered with saying it may be the CT4VBW. I just mentioned price to show that it is still within the same segment.

As much as I would have loved to buy an American product, 4 of 5 GMC vehicles owned by family or friends were replaced for drivetrain/differential issues. At least the TLX was manufactured in Ohio 🇺🇸.

F23A4

The context of what I stated was with respect to the exepectation placed on the Type S given the segment benchmark (and its B58 powertrain, again the benchmark) when it seems as though most of the segment comes up short by comparison. For all of the BW ability to keep up with the M340i, it's neither the benchmark nor is it particularly competitive when it comes to it's general px point.

richii0207

I was referring to the latter part of this statement with my answer to your question:

Which motor in this segment comes remotely close to the B58 in terms of performance? Along with the accompanying ZF8, it by far is the most potent powertrain of the segment.

F23A4

….point was intended to assert that it wasn’t fair to highlight the Type S shortcoming when compared with the benchmark when it has a lot of company there. Make sense, or not so much?

richii0207

Makes sense! I just misinterpreted it.

F23A4

no, my bad for not making that clearer from the start. All good.

BEAR-AvHistory

Agree 110%. Still have a hard time understanding why B58/S58 powered cars keeps coming up. To me the ideal target for the forum would be the Genesis G70. They are so close in many things, performance, price, value, both good looking cars. I think the Koreans looked as the US market & zeroed in on the overall TLX envelope. Both cars in other geographies would be very upscale items. The Koreans have one advantage they sell their cars globally & the bigger market with more sales lets them cover their development expenses to a greater extent.

sombasol

I think what it has really come down to is, youre going to pay ~$9-11,000 more for a realisticly equipped M340i, and if you are comfortable paying that and are not afraid of the shadow of unreliability that is cast by BMW (post all the stats you want, 25 years of scary reliabilty is not easily forgotten) it is a no brainer to get an M340i. However those 2 caveats eliminate a large number of buyers. Thats why the industry has multiple offerings. Im both afraid of german reliabilty and was not willing to pay more then the Type S’ entry price on a vehicle. I was looking at an Aspec and made the decision to flex my budget to fit a Type S. I think that is more often then not going to be the people buying this vehicle. As much as some people may brush it off when comparing these vehicles cost is a huge factor still. $53,000 is a lot less the $63,000. Thats almost $200 a month over 5 years of financing with taxes factored in. 18% more. If you are in the situation that that type of price difference doesnt matter then congrats but it’s certainly a consideration for most. Cost wise their are 2 pretty clear price points in this “segment” we keep lumping together as 1

60+ club
M340i
C43
S5

is500

50+ club
Type S
S4
G70
CT4V

yes you can get some of the 60+ club cars for in the 50’s but no one is going to junk spec those cars, low 60’s is a realistic minimum. Maybe 59. The C43 i test drove was under spec’d and I couldnt even believe they would let you buy one like at. The standard exhaust was so quiet it was literally inaudible. Wanna hear that biturbo? $1000-$2000 option.

All of them are great cars and i doubt anyone that bought any of them would regret their decision. It’s just what makes sense for the individual.

Legend2TL

Well written post, the first few thoughts you had I totally agree with. There's something to be said about spending alot of money on a car from a brand that has a history of poor reliability and costly repairs if kept for the long term. Most people like nice cars, but most people also don't want high cost of ownership as well. YMMV, but I've seen many move on to other brands after their German luxury car experience in the 90's to early 2010's.

Legend2TL

and oh yes

richii0207

I think you’re missing the CTV4BW on 60+ club. Do people not know about this car? It seems to constantly be looked over. It’s literally THE fastest car in the segment.

caLiTLX

I did a quick search on the CT4BW and didn’t find many options; the ones I did find were in the high 70s and mid 80s. Similar to all vehicles in today’s market, the markups don’t help. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t there multiple options that bump the CT4BW past the 60k mark?

BEAR-AvHistory

You need to move the CT4VBW up to the 60+club. Base stripped 6MT starts at $59,640 Equipped equal to an M340 I would buy its in the $74,000 range. The was C&D tested the car & ran Lightning Laps was $78,985. The M340 I would buy is about $62,000. ($61,250 Build Your Car) Your $53,000 car lists as $53,800 with paint & $54,600 with Paint & Tires. So if I was buying both cars the S would cost me $54,600 VS $62,000. That's a spread of $7,200.

So yeah as has always been said the M340 costs more but $11,000 more is a big bite. You can't load a car up with every available option because most are not bought that way. People leave out what they don't want. I have had a number of 3/4 series & none went over $63,000 on the sticker even with the performance packages included.

The M4C convert goes from $86,500 to $115,880. Based on the forum traffic very few cars go over $100,000 & most are in the mid $90,000 range

Think you are overstating the reliability thing. Everybody here seems to have forgotten the TLX G1 launch. Remember the 9 speed transmissions? The TL 4G launch Oil consumption & bad Torque Converters. 3G bad AT & MT transmissions. 2G.1 Engine to strong for the transmissions. BMW have been pretty solid not perfect since the F & G series. The last of the E series were also pretty good. Bitching on the forums in way down & CR recommended buys are pretty standard for most F & G models 2,3,5 series. Some are not recommended but then the TLX G1 also was not recommended.

Anyway I do not think your group 1 vs group 2 really exist as competitors. Agree its the pricing causes very little cross buying. There might be cross shopping but many those people are not going to pay a higher price than is comfortable for them. Average price of a USA car is about $45,000. So both these groups are out of range for a lot of people.

You know if the BMW were so bad that you were to sacred to get one gotta wonder what these people see in them. On the luxury side of things, Mercedes-Benz keeps it close to Lexus (49%) with a (47.8%) loyalty rate. BMW (45.1%), Porsche (44.9%) and Audi (43.4%) make up the top five luxury car brands with the most loyal customers.