Let me begin by saying: I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to have a 2019 Acura TLX 3.5L V6 SH-AWD Aspec loaned to me for a couple weeks. While the TLX that I own, a 2018 3.5L V6 FWD P-AWS Technology is in the shop. And... I'd like to take this opportunity to make a new thread to discuss my experience (yours may vary, we will agree on some aspects, disagree on others...).

Here is the car I have on loan:




Here is my TLX:

 

If AWD is boring, FWD is worse. For one thing, AWD and FWD have the same set of problems (Understeer) but AWD has superior grip and smart AWD is better than that. Also, torque steer is a thing a great deal of the time and it sucks.

If you're arguing RWD is more fun and AWD, you're probably right. But FWD? Not a chance.

I can see the I4 TLX as more fun than the v6 because of the superior transmission, maybe. But SH-AWD is significantly better than FWD.

 

^Truth. OP did mention he believes it is an unpopular opinion. Non torque vectoring awd systems maybe boring but definitely not the SH-AWD.

 

I'm convinced that SH-AWD is a good system, it clearly makes the car easier to drive, particularly if you are in a hurry to go after turning*, such as to merge, or for whatever reason. I would absolutely prefer to have the SH-AWD in the winter, and, if I had winter specific tires, such as studded tires, I feel like it would be an amazing winter car for someone who wishes to travel in comfort and quiet and enjoys a car which has a good balance between comfort and the feel of a good "drivers car" that is not too soft or floaty, and has good steering feel with both just enough "feedback" from the road to inspire confidence and a crisp, not-sloppy steering system.

But, for me personally, the SH-AWD is actually slightly less fun than the FWD P-AWS version of the car. It's almost too easy to drive - I like having to pay attention to how I use the throttle the way I do on my car, since I drive w/Traction Control off all the time, in "Sport" mode, and I always leave my Sprint Booster on the "Red" setting.

Can you even do burnouts in the SH-AWD version? It's not something I do often - I don't particularly enjoy buying new tires , but, it is a lot of fun on those rare times that I do do it in my car - it's easy to do without making the car move at all, or, "off the line", whatever.

Also, I don't know why exactly, but the throttle feels even less responsive on this SH-AWD version, sometimes if I slow down then turn, I swear I've waited more than full second or two after FOT for the engine to even start revving up!?!? That means that in the case where you have to either stop, or slow down, you really can't accelerate out of the turn - the power doesn't get put down until too late. I'm not even trying to push this car hard, not at all, I just kept experimenting, turn after turn, and eventually found that I could literally push the throttle ALL THE WAY DOWN and still get VERY LITTLE power / no fast engine revving (in this particular case of having slowed down a lot for a turn, then trying to speed up while turning).

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No question, most of the time the SH-AWD makes it easier to put power down, and you don't have the front wheel slipping which can sometimes lead to an unpleasant THUD THUD THUD - but, whatever the combination of factors is (I'm not exactly sure) my car is more responsive to my throttle input, feels "peppier", and is more fun for me to drive in most circumstances. It is a little lighter, it does put slightly more power to the wheels (drive train loss is a real thing w/AWD systems), and it does have All Wheel Steering to compensate for under-steer.

If I wanted to just drive my car, and not think about it, not be bothered by it, didn't care much about having fun with it, then absolutely I would want the SH-AWD.

And yes, I understand why (and have personal experience) RWD is tons more fun than either AWD or FWD, and, yes, I understand that most people who want to enjoy "spirited driving" will avoid FWD. So, I am rather surprised to find myself thinking that I'm not going to be all that disappointed to hand this car back in, and get my car back!

 

Can you do burn outs in your SH-AWD TLX?

This car is a loaner, from my dealer, whom I plan to do business with again in the future - I am driving this car "normally", how I usually drive, but I'm not pushing anything too hard, or trying anything "crazy" in it - nothing that I would consider "abusing" the car. So, I guess that means that I'm not going to really try to do burnouts, or wear out their tires. But I am curious if you can? I'm also not going to try to "push the rear end out" on corners, though I would do that if I had my own rear wheel drive car, and if I had this SH-AWD as my own car, I would see if I could - cautiously.

 

I thought that the "great transmission" combined with the lighter weight of the ILX would make that car, with it's I4 engine be fun to try - boy was I wrong, relative to my V6 TLX the I4 ILX felt like a slug - a slug that my Grandma would have been very happy to drive. It's a fine car, looks nice - but, it just didn't have the pep to feel responsive to my driving.

That same small engine in the even heavier TLX? I just can't see that as being enjoyable, though I know some other people like it. I already wish my TLX had a higher power to weight ratio/weighed a little less.

At this point, I feel like the TLX's J35 3.5L NA V6 engine does have adequate power for most everything except: feeling the rush of acceleration (like in a V8 RWD car), or, use as a "track car" (such as a BRZ w/an aftermarket turbo and high performance summer tires on it would be) - I did not feel that way when I first owned the car, but I have since learned that my disappointment came from a few factors: 1) the way the engineers programmed the throttle and transmission on the V6 car is intentionally aiming more for "smooth" than what I want (thrill and excitement), and, this engine needs to rev up over 4K to get into it's power band, and, the way they were excessively heavy handed in how Traction Control cuts the throttle is HEINOUS from my perspective.

So, if I: turn off Traction Control, use the paddle shifters to get the engine up over 4K, and the car has had time to "learn" how I like to drive, then the aspects that I don't like are almost eliminated and I can really enjoy this car.

 

So, let's say I was at the dealership and the dealer was trying to sell this car to me, and knew I was having it on loan for a couple days - what would he tell me I should do with the car, to really learn to appreciate how great the torque vectoring is?

 

The thread reeks of an inferiority complex

Next thread: Unpopular opinion: BMWs are boring! (Yes, even the mighty M3)

 

Really, no.

Even folks like professional car reviewers will tell you the BMW M2 is more fun than the M3.

But I haven't tried either myself - based on what I've seen and read, I'd f#@king LOVE the BMW M2, madly, like a teenage boy with his first lover.

I've really enjoyed old BMWs, from the 80's / 90's.

 

perhaps do what is intended?
push the car hard around some corners.

 

and your point being?

 

I hate speed limits like a vampire hates sunlight... *sigh* I also hate how much my insurance cost goes up with speeding tickets! One of the problems with good AWD cars is, that you have to go so damn fast to push them to their limits - with RWD, you can kick the corner out and have a blast without going at "blink and you're dead" speeds - heck, half the time you watch Ken Block, it looks like he's going only about 30 - 40 MPH, sometimes even slower when he's drifting around.

Fun fact: I've had a few car accidents, none have ever been remotely related to going too fast - it's usually somebody else hitting me because they didn't signal before changing lanes, or some stupid shit when I was going slow.

 

I am glad that you are enjoying your FWD. I test drove both and the SH-AWD was definitely the one for me. Interestingly I don’t experience understeer. Once I trained myself to accelerate into the corners it either rides like it is on rails or kicks out the back. Yes I can’t do burnouts but I don’t miss them. I also don’t miss torque steer either. I like the traction hitting the road. The only time I like losing traction is a little bit of loose end. I have a friend at my dealership that has the same AWD Aspec model as me but bone stock and I let him drive my car the other day and he was all smiles. I feel Acura left a lot on the table from the factory but once the handling, brakes and engine is beefed up this is a really fun car.

 

Really, YES. Want proof, look no further than the cheesy Type-S badge on the back of your TLX.

 

Unpopular opinion: AWD is boring! (Yes, even the mighty SH-AWD)



Whatever!!

 

If you have had the SH-AWD on loan and don't see the improvement in handling in wet/dry conditions then you probably made the right choice not getting that option. IMO the SH-AWD for $2k or less is the best value option the TLX has available. I really prefer traction over wheel spin and the AWD in corners is so much better, not boring at all. Though everyone has their opinion on what they like and it's good you have the option not to have it. A lot of people site snow as a reason to get the SH-AWD but I think in wet/dry conditions is where it shines the most.

 

On a quick run up a curvy two lane road if you can't feel the difference stay with FWD unless you need AWD for weather. On the other hand most people who do not have a dead butt (understand understeer & oversteer not theory but what your butt & steering wheel are telling you) will quickly realize the SHWAD was developed to make a FWD car drive more like a RWD car by reducing understeer.

 

SH-AWD is boring? Wut?

 

Yes, the plowing feeling with the FWD in a corner at speed is pretty significant on the FWD TLX. That was my experience in the FWD version. Besides reducing understeer the traction pulling out onto a road with traffic where you need to get up to speed is so much better and if it's a little wet out it's not even close.

 

The improved traction is obvious and easy to see.

Being able to properly try out the torque vectoring is harder - there's a limit to how fast I want to take turns just driving around town. And, it hasn't been raining around here lately - it did rain over night the other day, but roads were dry by the time I got out. With good tires on a FWD car I don't really find driving in the rain to be an issue anyway though? Ice and snow/slush etc., of course I vastly prefer AWD in those conditions and living in the Midwest we have enough of that sort of weather to make AWD worthwhile I agree.

But, in terms of simply having fun, w/my dry weather every day driving around town mostly, the added weight + drive train power loss exacerbate the not fantastic power to weight ratio of the TLX - additionally, AWD makes the car so easy to use that yes, it actually is a little less fun for slightly "spirited" day to day driving.

I don't know what all the factors are that make this so, but, this loaner car feels more sluggish than mine - I'm not sure if the 2019 model had some changes to the throttle response, or if somehow turning off Traction Control has less of a positive impact w/this car - it's hard to imagine that it's not something else beyond just the added weight + slightly less efficient drive train?!? Maybe not having the Sprint Booster makes that much difference in how the car feels? But, there's something else going on, because, as I pointed out earlier, whenever I've slowed down significantly before turning, the car just won't respond to the throttle in time/enough to put power down significantly as you're half way through the turn. I can go into a turn under throttle, and in that case, I can increase the throttle and do that, but the heavy handed limiting that happens after slowing for a turn is downright offensive! It's like the engine has been half-way put to sleep until well after the turn is over! WTF Acura?!?

 

So, the TLX has this really heinous problem with Traction Control drastically cutting power in some conditions - I have come to a stop, and then needed to move quick to turn and get out of the way of oncoming traffic only to find it fell more like I had 200 HAMSTER power than HORSE power. Turning OFF Traction Control fixed this problem for me - now I have excess torque and traction for any sort of merge/turn/whatever normal driving maneuver.

With Traction Control off the power is only lacking from the perspective of wanting to feel the rush of acceleration you can get from a V8 RWD car like Mustang/Camaro/Vette or the sportier variants of BMW/Mercedes/Audi etc (basically anything w/a sub 4 second 0 - 60 speed).

Can I easily spin my wheels w/FWD? Yes, absolutely, under most driving conditions if I'm either stopped, or going very slowly, I can spin the wheels at will. Does that prevent me from being able to drive the car fairly quick? No, it does not, I simply have to be aware and not just floor it (unless I have a rolling start).

Would I want AWD if I got a Type S? Yes, absolutely - the SH-AWD on the TLX would really shine with more power - personally, I like a car to have just enough power that it feels like you can start to lose control if you push the accelerator too far in any given situation. Would I want 700HP in a TLX? Definitely not. Not unless I was drag racing, and I don't think this is the right car for drag racing, even in the AWD version. Would I want more low end torque and 100 more HP? For sure, particularly if I had SH-AWD. With my FWD, I would still like a little more torque at the bottom revs, but, don't feel like it really needs any more HP, unless it had stiffer suspension, and I was gonna use it for track days.

 

One could forgive you for not realizing that you're actually proving my point for me, in a way, by pointing out that badge.

The SH-AWD on the TLX makes the aspect of the car being slightly under powered stand out even more - it's like shining a flashlight on the J35 engine's lack of low end torque, and, the fact that the TLX to begin with, does not have a stellar power to weight ratio in the world of "sports sedans". Adding SH-AWD to the TLX adds both weight and reduced efficiency through added drive train loss. To someone who is driving their TLX on some nice winding back country roads, the torque vectoring, reduced understeer, and feeling of pushing the throttle hard early as you'r coming out of turns more than compensates for the minor down side, I'm sure.

If they had had available a "Type S" version of the TLX w/more power when I bought my TLX (and I could afford it) I would feel a lot more strongly in favor of the SH-AWD variant. Without that additional power, I don't miss it as much - though I'm sure I could find myself cursing at not having it come winter, some days when driving conditions are exceptionally bad due to snow....

 

LOLz, not even close; you missed the point entirely.

 

99% of the time that I get wheel spin is if I am turning after having come to a full stop, or, down to a very slow speed. And, it's not like I had to spin my wheels, it's because I enjoy driving with a "lead foot".

Sure, there are occasionally times when the FWD bothers me - particularly sharp turns after stopping, but it's not a huge deal.

I think I'll need to take my TLX to a track to really appreciate how bad the understeer is (or isn't) and sometimes it does feel a little strange when P-AWS kicks in (at least I think that's what the feeling is).

As I had mentioned in another thread, I found it interesting that the one dealer at my Acura dealership who does frequently go to track days (a couple of them do, but one much more than the other) said that he would definitely take the FWD over the SH-AWD for track use - primarily because of the better power to weight ratio is more important than the AWD benefit.

 

No, that is not correct - not at all.

 

You cannot see the difference with SH-AWD...okay.....


The SH-AWD system turned a good sporty FWD car like the 4G TL base to a bona fide sport sedan capable to hanging out with the best...if you cannot tell the difference, you are not driving it the way it should...

 

If know what its like to get fwd tire spin when trying to pull out. You can mitigate it somewhat by easing off the gas but the SH-AWD really eliminates that issue entirely making it safer and better handling. The old porsche 930 tubo was one of those cars that wasn't close to 700 hp but had that feel you describe. Problem was a lot of people did lose control. I don't expect the type S to be that type of car nor would I want it to be.

I think sometime back Bear made the statement something to the effect that 300hp was about the viable limit for a FWD car and even my type S at 286 would break the wheels loose effortlessly and most times not intentionally but it barely took any push on the gas for them to break lose regardless of what type of tires I ran (really bad on wet roads). Anything with greater HP has to have the SH-AWD to get the power down on the road. I think the current SH-AWD option adds 150 lbs to the weight of the car. The better driving characteristics more than offset the added weight.The main reasons most people don't get it are cost (up front and maintenance over time) and the lower mpg by a mile or so.

As for more torque at low end it may not so much be lack of torque as the TLX is rated more than the 3rd gen type S and not significantly different in weight. I think the gearing comes into play where they set it up with a greater focus on MPG than performance. I believe even 4th gen owners felt that gen felt faster as well although I didn't look up acceleration specs. The tlx is a good daily driver with decent styling, ok but not great power (definitely is a slow feeling 290hp), and overall (imo) solid reliability with low maintenance costs. Is it a car that I would keep for 5 to 10 years? Highly unlikely. I think they will correct a lot things with the Type S next year both with performance and interior aesthetics. Hope the trade-in on the TLX doesn't tank too much more by then but I suspect those that trade up will get a nice haircut.

 

No no no, well... MOSTLY no - it's not that I can't​​​​​​, but true, I have not had the chance to really​​​​​​, thoroughly, feel what SH-AWD can do when pushed to the edge.

I think I explained pretty well, if a bit long-winded - it's not that SH-AWD isn't good (it is) it's more that, for me, someone who would LIKE to do track days but doesn't, the power of the 3.5L J35 w/o aftermarket boost,​​​​​​ feels more well matched to the FWD P-AWS version of the TLX and when matched w/the SH-AWD its, well, too well behaved - in a sense, it's too good and I want to feel like the car is on edge a bit more - does that make sense?

I want to have to pay attention, to have to know just how far I can push the throttle.

In the SH-AWD there are almost never times when flooring the gas pedal is remotely close to losing control - the only danger, is getting a speeding ticket.

Of course, you could simply go *too fast* and do a "four wheel drift", perhaps die, or total your car... But that's a matter of how long you hold the gas pedal down, not just how far you push it down.

Three speeding tickets in the past five years, plus my wife had an accident, and, God damn my insurance price skyrocketed 😢

Belive me, I want to push this car hard, but, unless someone offers me use of their private track, I dunno...

 

You do not need to go too fast to appreciate the effectiveness of the SH-AWD system....just turn into a fairly tight curve, accelerate and see what happen...try with both, FWD and SH-AWD....the difference is night and day....you can definitely notice the advantage of SH-AWD in everyday driving....

Sure, for literal grocery getting duty driving like a granma you will not feel any difference but any amount of spirited driving (even at legal speed) will clearly reveal the advantage of SH-AWD.

Prior to my 4G TL SH-AWD 6MT I owned a 5.5 generation Nissan Maxima 6MT with mechanical LSD, pretty much the best setup you can possibly get in a FWD, similar to the 3G Type S and still you could feel the SH-AWD advantage in a big way putting the power down, getting out of a curve, etc...

 

My experience is that SH-AWD can actually be extremely dangerous in the snow, because it is so easy to get going really fast and feel surprisingly in control. That is revealed as a catastrophic illusion when you try and stop. ;-)

 

SH-AWD is safer in the snow, as are most AWD systems. The problem is they're as safe as some believe. It's still snow and ice and it's still not super safe to drive on. It's not exactly a false sense of security, it is more like an excess of comfort.

 

Oh, yes of course, no matter what wheel drive you have, being able to stop is extremely important - even if you're only going 15 MPH, if you get a patch of glare ice in front of a stop sign, the results can be heinous. I've had a few cases where I was trying to stop, but sliding and saying oh shit, oh shit, oh shit - whew! As I came to a stop within inches of the car in front of me. Sliding out in front of oncoming traffic in an intersection can be far more scary, even deadly - there are plenty of examples of this on YouTube - thankfully, none involving me! I might not be the most cautious when it comes to driving in the snow, but I do certainly slow down and watch the road ahead very cautiously.

Even in dry conditions, the feeling of confidence you can get from AWD, and how easy it feels to go too fast, can get you in trouble. That makes RWD so much better for folks that wan to feel the thrill of a little rear end drift - you don't actually have to be doing something dangerous, to powerslide a little if you got RWD. I read that FWD is not actually that inferior for drifting, just harder to learn (some folks have won rally races in FWD cars, though I would certainly choose AWD for myself, were I to participate in such).

 

The SH-AWD is not a simple a bad weather AWD system...sure it offers the obvious traditional AWD inclement weather advantages (for traction, when it comes to stopping all cars are equal, FWD, RWD or AWD) but its main appeal is driving dynamics, that is where it shines.

 

If you gave me the choice of either: better/sportier suspension which let me hit bumps on high speed turns and feel more in control (less "floaty"), or, SH-AWD I would take the first option. I might still learn to really appreciate SH-AWD more - dunno. We'll see. I do know that my craving for more power will be even stronger if I owned the SH-AWD version! If only my dealer would promise me that I wouldn't lose my warranty if I installed a nitrous system :sigh:

Yes - but, "night and day" hmm, even in my FWD I enjoy taking turns hard enough that my tires squeal - I've taken ramps too hard and made a ton of squealing tire noise, then notice a cop that was off on the side road - I was thinking: oh shit, I'm glad there were other cars and he couldn't SEE who was making that noise!! He pulled out, but didn't flip his lights on - whew...

Almost all the time, if my wife/kids aren't in the car I try to take every turn hard enough that I really appreciate how little body roll the TLX has - sure, there's that thing you can do powering out of the turn in the SH-AWD, that's not as good in mine, but I'm still having fun and testing the limits of my tire's traction without feeling overly bothered by understeer - I'm curious what it would feel like to take the same turns multiple times with P-AWS switched both on and off?

If either: A) I lived out by some nice winding countryside roads -or- B) The TLX had ~50+HP more, were true, I would be talking to my dealer about trading in and getting an SH-AWD model....

 

I could be wrong - and I know that SH-AWD tries to simulate RWD, but still think that the difference between RWD and SH-AWD is greater than the difference between SH-AWD and FWD [w/P-AWS] if you're simply talking about fun. But of course, "fun" is quite subjective!

Has anybody had the chance to try the same car with and without P-AWS activated? Any of you in Central Ohio, want to show me why you love your SH-AWD so much? Then when I get my FWD TLX back, I can show you why I think it's still fun, even if it is inferior?

 

I had a 17 V6 FWD and it had way more body roll than the 18 ASpec SH-AWD. It also has some suspension upgrades over the FWD version. I drive pretty hard through turns at times, much more so than with the FWD TLX and have yet to hear any tire screeching which is a good thing. Something must be wrong with the loaner you got if you get the feeling it is in less control than the FWD TLX. The SH-AWD is very well planted and solid handling wise. I actually feel overall it is much better than my Type S that had the performance suspension upgrades but still was FWD.

Also if you are driving around squealing tires and have multiple speeding tickets spend some money on some countermeasure tech like an R3 or R7. Unless all they use is laser out there one of those units or another high end model will pay for itself in savings.

 

Not less in control, not less planted - it feels slightly heavier, it certainly is easier to put the power down - by "less responsive" mean that in some circumstances, such as after slowing down or stopping for a turn, when I floor the throttle 100% I just sit and wait, then eventually the throttle spools up - so slow.

My '18 FWD TLX feels like it has practically zero body roll in hard turns? Way less than my VW GTi did! I know the Aspec has slightly larger/stiffer anti sway bar, but mine already has so little that I couldn't feel a difference unless I tried them moments apart, I think? I am stunned at the lack of body roll in both my FWD TLX and the loaner Aspec/SH-AWD TLX. If it had RWD + manual transmission I'd be happier than a pig in shit.

I assumed that there was enough laser in use now that getting radar detectors was worthless, do you think that's wrong for Columbus, OH? I would LOVE to get a radar detector and stop getting speeding tickets! I use Waze to help, but it's not always enough.

 

I don't know about the TLX but the 4G TL had sportier suspension in the SH-AWD trim (especially the 6MT) and better brakes so.....

 

Aspec has "tuned" suspension, which I read the difference was only that it is slightly stiffer, and it has a larger/stiffer anti-sway bar. But, neither Aspec nor SH-AWD have different brakes, or a different suspension system (other than those minor differences I mentioned regarding Aspec).

I think we're expecting more dramatic differences w/the upcoming "Type S" TLX - but, I don't know if the new Acura only Turbo V6 is going to be reserved as Type S only, or not? Certainly better brakes and a stiffer suspension will be most welcome additions along with the increased HP and Torque.

 

I'm not going to lie, I was bored with my 2019 A-Spec SH-AWD within a couple of months and recently traded it in for a 2019 Giulia Sport Ti Q4----if you haven't driven one OP, you should try it---it's an unparalleled driving experience, even with AWD