dzionny_dzionassi

Stop making fool of yourself, saturno_v just showed an article...
They went CHEAP, much simpler differential to save money... Whatever you gonna say just stop, read the facts..
FYI I dont think that newer SH-AWD will be such a bullet prof like older generation... It should generate much more heat....
Oh, did you read complains about vibration? Some dealer swapping diffs

KeithL

While I understand the point is there is still power to all 4 wheels, and it still does torque vectoring. Yes they made it less espensive, and all AWD systems have pluses and minuses. I actually liked the Haldex system in my Audi. The TLX sends more power to the rear under more situations than the 4G even if it is inferior in design.

saturno_v

Keith

The Audi A6 does not use an Haldex system.

BEAR-AvHistory

My bad did not know what hey carried over from the RL. Sounds like the NSX backwards, guess they want to keep the main driven wheels closest to te engine, makes sense.

Speaking of the NSX wonder if Honda is happy or sad about it. Great 0-60 times but not a very good showing on the C&D annual Lightning Laps. For the 2016 releases It finished 7th a few 10ths ahead of a Mustang GT350R & 3 full seconds behind the $67K 460HP Corvette.GS. As-tested price: $203,100 OUCH

On the historical table going back 10 years it came in 17th. Was well behind the usual suspects, the supercars, but surprisingly after all the handling hype behind 2 Stingrays, 3 Vipers & a Porsche 911.

For anyone who does not know LL runs on VIR's 4.1 mile Grand West Course rated as one of if not the best road course in the US.

saturno_v

That is exactly correct...actually, to be precise, the NSX is an RLX Sport Hybrid SH-AWD "backwards" (the RLX was introduced first)

boe_d

It might have something to do with it not being beaten with the fugly stick like future generations of the car.

TacoBello

Hmmm... I thought the RLX only had one electric motor powering the rear wheels. Does anyone have any articles confirming more than one? I'm sincerely curious.

saturno_v

Here you go from the Acura web site

http://www.acura.com/rlx/features

Official release from Acura Media Newsroom

http://acuraconnected.com/2014/09/26...hybrid-sh-awd/

Producing a combined 377 horsepower and 341 lb-ft of torque1, the RLX Sport Hybrid is powered by a direct injected 3.5-liter V6 engine and new three-motor hybrid system with the latest incarnation of Acura’s signature Super Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-AWD) system.

Saintor

Where were you in 2008?

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/moto...omytests.shtml


Anyway for that 600miles, they got 16mpg for a IS300 rated 18/25. It is obvious for somebody with a brain that those cars were continuously beaten.

Saintor

You are confused and confusing.

If you want to quote me, better do it properly. I certainly wrote that between E46/E90 (I owned both), the E90 was the better athlete while the E46 was the better interpretation of a BMW.

nist7

Yup. A simple visit to the Acura website shows it there as a poster above have already done so. The RLX is essentially a "backwards" NSX. (Or vice versa). And it is one of the most under-rated/under-appreciated and unknown feature of the RLX. For whatever reason why Acura does not shout this from the mountain top is beyond me....no one knows about this apparently. (Hence the abysmal sales of the RLX)

In fact, I remember discussing this on another thread with another person and there is a real suspicion that the hardware may actually be the same as the NSX.

Look at the power numbers for all 3 motors.
RLX Front Motor HP: 47 @3000
RLX Front Motor TQ: 109 @ 500-2000
vs.
NSX Direct Drive Motor HP: 47 @ 3000
NSX Direct Drive Motor TQ: 109 @ 500-2000



RLX Dual Rear Motors HP: (36 + 36) @ 4000
RLX Dual Rear Motors TQ: (54 + 54) @ 0-2000
vs.
NSX Twin Motor Unit HP: (36+36) @ 4000
NSX Twin Motor Unit TQ: (54 + 54) @ 0-2000

Here's the spec table for the RLX motors:

source: http://owners.acura.com/vehicles/information/2014/RLX/specs#mid^KC2F9EKNW

NSX motors:

source: 2017 Acura NSX Press Kit - PDF Download - NSX - Honda News

Saintor

Well, I have been a registered mechanical engineer for 25 years, I designed hydraulic / gear systems. Don't you think that would be a good start? Again, you ASS-umed very wrong.

It is not because a kid-racer knows to insert an hyperlink that it makes him knowledgeable.

The beauty of these Haldex-type AWD system is their energy efficiency. Otherwise the MDX/TLX would be rated 1-2mpg less. Now they are mature enough that you don't see any real-life drawback. None..

For your information, even Audi is going that route with their own system, imitating Haldex ones..
Audi's High-Tech New Quattro Is About To Piss Off Its Biggest Fans

TacoBello

Appreciate the info, guys. I definitely don't hear much about the RLX, nor do I go looking for the info either... To date, I've only come across ONE RLX SH-AWD on the streets. With my occasional visit to the dealerships, I've never seen one in the showrooms even. It's a bit of an elusive creature.

Curious though... What the hell do September sales numbers have to do with fuel economy and SH-AWD?

nist7

Indeed. Those who DO own the Super Handling SH-AWD appreciate and know of the feature, such as our very own neuronbob who owns what may be the Holy Grail of AZine Trifecta Garage: CTS-V Wagon, RLX, NSX.

A quick visit to my local Acura dealer website shows that the 3 new RLX with Super Handling SH-AWD are priced at: 66,870, 66,890, and 66,890. Basically knocking on $70,000 and essentially a 70k car with all the taxes/registration/fees/etc.

And so at the $70,000 price segment...there will be LOT of other viable luxury choices (mid level, large luxury sedan) to pick from. E-class, A7, 5 series, GS, Q70, etc.

Not to mention if one has enough financial ability to spend on a 70k car, they are likely to be able to afford the slightly more expensive brothers of the above mentioned models such as: S-class, 7 series, LS, etc. And basically I think of these cars as also viable competitors to the RLX and when taking those into account (with the amount of luxury/performance/brand presitge that those alternative choices offer) it is no wonder that Honda barely are able to move any RLX with the SH-AWD off the showroom floor each year. To the tune of an abysmal 207 last year...and about 150 or so so far this year. Basically a couple dozen a month or so...

CheeseyPoofs McNut

The TLX outsold the Audi A3, Audio A5, BMW 2 Series, BMW 4 Series, Cadilac ATS, Infiniti Q60, MB CLA Class, Volvo S60 and Volvo V60 and every Lexus model listed plus a smattering of smaller players. I guess they don't have any cards left to play unless there is a serious turnaround - and it is really sad to see what has happened to what was once a really great brand.

TacoBello

Well... Change in the automotive world is generally pretty slow. I think putting Ikeda at the helm should help in the long run... It just may take a few years before the changes are seen.

What I, and many of us don't understand is why Honda continues to pinch Acura so tightly by the balls. Even if Ikeda has brilliant ideas on moving Acura forward, he still needs approval from Honda... And Honda doesn't seem to want Acura to excel at anything besides moving regular commuter cars. Obviously the commuter cars are the bread and butter of any car company, but in this case, it's causing Acura to become more like Buick in North America.

jazzneel

What do you guys think of the TSX vs the new TLX? I ultimately went with a 2013 TSX with 17K miles 5 months ago, and so far I love it. My only two things I wish was that it was a little faster from 0-60, and that it had blind spot monitoring, but I can deal. The TLX was just too big for me - I prefer smaller cars, and the ILX was just horrible in everything minus the 0-60.

TacoBello

Isn't the TLX only marginally bigger than the 2G TSX?

All that counts is that you like it. Anyone else's opinion beyond that doesn't matter.

BEAR-AvHistory

Right here in NC watching the EPA numbers go from very, very, very bad to just very, very bad.

Or maybe, just maybe they drove a bunch of sport dedans the way most buyers would drive them.

June 2016 C&D random picks of road tests.

2016 Camaro 6 cylinder EPA 18/27 actual 19mpg Mustang 6 cylinder EPA 22/31 actual 20

FORD F150 V8 EPA 15/21 Actual 16 with trailer 10mpg FORD F150 6 cylinder EPA 16/22 Actual 16 with trailer 9mpg

McLaren 570S EPA 16/23 Actual 15mpg Porsche 911 GT3 RS 14/20 actual 15mpg

They can't even get a Diesel right which should be a sitter Colorado 20/29 actual 22mpg.

So the best way to use the new & improved EPA numbers is to look at the city number & figure +- 1 MPG for your actual.

Right now we have 6 cars in the household in addition to my daughters 2 Porsches & NADA, NADA match up with the new & improved EPA numbers in general use..

BEAR-AvHistory

This is your quote

[quote-saintor]It is mainly a matter of feel. The E90 just feels better at handling, although not like day and night.
Here is an old comparo (E46 and TL).
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=7785

Not a word in your quote about the E90 better athlete or the E46 better interpretation. AFAIK this was the whole line, did I miss something?

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Honestly - I think Acura thinks they can make more money by selling into the "near luxury" market segment vs trying to keep up with the high performance sedan crowd. It's pretty smart really - since they sell a metric crap-load of Accords they have a very large base to sell in to. The problem is there isn't enough separation between the Accord and the TLX to really grab them. I think they're actually pretty close and moving in the right direction despite all the negative stuff you see here - the MMC for the TLX will be a big test for them.

AZuser

Why are you comparing TLX sales to models the TLX doesn't compete with (i.e. Audi A3, BMW 2 series, MB CLA, etc.)? Those models are ILX competitors. Trying to make the TLX appear to be a better seller than it really is?

It makes as much sense as comparing TLX sales to Toyota Avalon sales (which outsold the TLX) because they're in the same pricing range.

AZuser

The 2G TSX is better than the TLX because:

- "TSX has double wishbone suspension"
- TSX "tight turning circle as good as Civic"
- TSX "much quieter and refined engine noise when you accelerate from 80 to 120mph"
- "2G TSX is very high quality product. Look at the gauges and steering wheel, wide seats, console with cup holder, expensive mirror design."
- TSX has chrome door handles
- TLX "is not good value compared to TSX" because "TLX is expensive for the quality of materials used".... "its low hanging fruit and every one can afford it so they buying it"
- TSX has visible exhausts
- "TSX can pull more gs and have higher slolam run both C&D and Consumer reports gave higher marks."
- "when you park that TLX next to 8 year old TSX. TLX quality is far below and TSX noise levels are almost equal with summer performance tires. TLX is more closer to the family cars like Accord and Altima."
- "highly ergonoimc interior TSX could compete against more expensive and powerfull cars. its perfection like no other Acura vehcile designed and made before."
- "The designe language of TLX simply step down."

nist7

With the recent sales numbers and the general down-trend in luxury car sales and Acura's relative loss in growth of their luxury SUV segment as compared to industry standard I'm sure corporate HQ (hopefully) has some vision/strategy for the future. It would be interesting to be able to peek/listen into their meetings on future product direction/design/goals/etc.

Yeah a fully loaded Accord EX-L V6 will be very close to the TLX in terms of features and technology, aside from the transmission and availability of SH-AWD/PAWS.

Rae Rad

Ok.. I for one, mmmmm.....not too concern with the TLX sales for Sept. Nor will I be for Oct, Nov or even xmas sales. as long as its a least selIing... not too concern with the numbers. If it sells more good for Acura if it sells less, then less cars like mine on the road lol I seen this thread has 4 pages worth of smack about Tlx sales being down. So there are only 2900+ more tlx added on the road last month. Big deal. ...key highlights for the TLX is the 8spd Dct, the SHawd, the ELS studio and those beautiful Jewel Eyes that look aggressive, sexy and elegant at the same time (which Acura made standard across the board something no other brand could do. I have no doubt that soon they will have Acura Watch standard across the board as well, Its already standard on the 2017 MDX and will slowly trickle down the line). But Lets all remember 1 thing; the Acura brand has always been the middle child in the entry level luxury segment. Not sure of the exceptations for Acura, Is there a lil hope they will surpass the Germans brands ? mmmaybe not! If everyone would accept the brand for what they are maybe you guys would actually appreciate the brand for with what they're worth. ACURA is a value luxury brand. the TLX has lots of standard equipment for a lower price than most of its competitors and this is why I'm sitting in one now.

boe_d

I wouldn't mind a car the size of the TSX but for me to want a TSX, I'd expect it to have much better acceleration and MPG.

ctwickman

Why are you comparing cars (and coupes!) in totally different classes to the TLX. You have a point with the Volvo S60 and Cadillac ATS. I would hope that Acura would outsell Volvo.

BEAR-AvHistory

I don't believe this has any relevance. The 4 series is a specialty niche for Coupe & Convertible. They will never sell at the rate a 4 door does. Their companion 3 series 4 door sells at triple their rate.

Also they run from $42K to $60K base price depending on model before any options to the $32K to $45 packed price for the TLX. The TLX is not really in the 4 series price segment..

Expect the series generates a lot more profit for BMW than the TLX does for Honda even with lower sales numbers. 2289 to 2908 for the month.

Price wise the TLX & 2 series matches up with the 2 having a higher top end but again is a specialty coupe & convertible product line.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Indeed. I took some liberties to make a point and to counter the "THE SKY IS FALLING" hyperbole of some of the posts.

Cheers!

2Blueyam

Somewhere back in this thread someone commented on the longer term reliability of the Acura vs. some domestic sedans over the longer haul. I would say that applies vs. the Audi, Volvo and maybe BMW cars too. After just trading in our 2009 Audi A4, I will tell you that I fully expect our TLX to be more reliable as well as cheaper to maintain and repair than the Audi was. If you don't believe me, just head over to an Audi forum and read all about the nightmares and headaches those cars create when they get over 5 years / 60k miles old. Our A4 was 7 years old, 55k miles and had 4 electronic failures within the last year (spent about $3700 and that was fixing one of them myself so just $140 part cost on that one).

We were generally cross shopping smaller cars, but the TLX just barely squeezed into our small enough category. We wanted AWD. We will probably never buy another VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) product so no A3 / A4. The AWD IS350, 3 series and C class were considerably more expensive than a 2016 TLX SH-AWD tech. We didn't really like the IS300 or ATS. So far we love the way the TLX drives and handles. If he had been willing to give up the AWD for FWD we might have picked up the ILX or even a Mazda 3s Grand Touring.

TacoBello

Dude, look at all the problems on this forum alone.

ACURAS AND HONDAS ARE NO LONGER RELIABLE VEHICLES LIKE THEY ONCE WERE!

And not small shit either. Feel free to console yourself and say that "those transmission issues have been fixed" along with every other bullshti problem Acura faces these days. I'll be driving my Korean car that actually has been reliable as fuck. Much more than my Acura, that's for sure. I can give you a lift to the repair shop of your choice also... So long as you don't mind being seen in a Korean vehicle.

2Blueyam

I took at look at a lot of the stuff here before buying. Much of it is picky owners, but you have a right to be picky when you spend this much. Not saying they don't have a valid argument. But I am not hearing of the vehicles breaking down and leaving people stranded. I am not hearing of major components failing like the main ECM for the whole car. I also took a look and most Acura parts are less expensive. The service /maintenance is certainly cheaper no matter how you do it: prepay the dealer, dealer, independent shop or DIY. Audi, BMW and Mercedes parts are expensive. The rates our Audi dealer charged for service are highway robbery. Sometimes you have to wait 2-4 weeks for parts to come over on a ship.

Here I see a TSB on a HPFP (high Pressure Fuel Pump) that makes a bit of noise. I am not hearing of multiple HPFP failures, which basically then send shrapnel throughout the rest of the engine necessitating thousands of dollars in repairs or occasionally a whole new engine.

ZipSpeed

My sentiments as well. My 2011 X3 was in the shop, three times in the first year. And of one of those three, the dealer had the vehicle for 5 weeks because they couldn't procure a part from Germany. In the second year, it was in the shop twice. Luckily, no issues in the 3rd or 4th years. I got rid of it shortly after the warranty ran out. The one experience I had with a German brand has soured me and I'm not entirely sure if I will ever give them a chance again. I do love the way my X3 drove. Handled beautifully even for something that rode higher than the 3-series. On the other hand, the Japanese vehicles I have owned so far have been solid. No major issues and just regular maintenance.

TacoBello

I'm not entirely sure why you guys are comparing your Acura to a BMW, or Audi, or Mercedes. We're talking about two very different levels of cars here. Acura even admits it doesn't compete with the German brands.

Let's compare the Acura to Infiniti, Lexus, Nissan, Toyota, Honda. I think those are much more in line with Acura, though it's hard for me to even put Lexus in that category.

ZipSpeed

Uh... I thought the last few posts were on the topic of reliability, not how brand cachet stack against each other. And why can't I compare a BMW to Acura? I owned an unreliable BMW and I gave my thoughts on it versus the Japanese vehicles I owned. When I was shopping for my next car, I cross-shopped a 3 series, IS350, Q50, Legacy, Accord and TLX. So yes, there are people like me who shop the entire breadth from mainstream to high-end premium.

saturno_v

Brand cachet has nothing to do with reliability....by the way Acura has always been cross shopped as brand (especially SUVs) with entry-mid level German premium cars. The MDX and the X5, for example, do get cross shopped.

On pure brand cachet (leaving aside hyper luxurious brand slike Bentley and Rolls Royce) MB has the highest then Jaguar and BMW.....Audi is below, on par with Lexus. Audi has leapfrogged Infiniti and Acura on perception only in the last 10-15 years or so because they been very consistent in building very high tech luxurious cars, an exotic model and a performance division......the brand has been much more focused in product development than Acura and Infiniti and the market has responded (sales and perception)

TacoBello

because it's a completely different demographic each panders to. Although, admittedly, there are plenty of tools out there, spending more than they can afford in order to keep up with the Jones'.

While I won't disagree with you regarding German reliability, I'm more interested how Acura stands up to its nearest rivals, not the Germans. Everyone knows their reliability sucks and they don't even try to hide it. Acura/Honda is still touted as being super reliable. I wonder why then, my last 3 cars were headaches.

ZipSpeed

So which demographic do I fit into then? Other than the 3 Series which I quickly wrote off, I literally test drove all the cars on my above list. Vehicles that range from $35 to $60k (that Q50 Red Sport sure is something, but more than I wanted to spend at the time). I don't think vehicle purchasing demographics are that black and white. As you said, anybody and their grandmas can get into a BMW these days.

My TLX is the first Honda product I have owned and so far, so good. I'm not downplaying the issues you had with your last three cars (which I assume were Honda products) and you have every right to be vocal about it. From my perspective, after 4 years with my X3 and hoping the vehicle won't leave me stranded on the side of the road, it was rather nice to unclench my cheeks for a change. As I mentioned before, no Japanese brand vehicle I have owned has ever left me stranded on the side of the road. Every vehicle will have its issues but the severity of it, is the game changer IMO.

acurafan73

Last year, I set out to test drive some of the sporty/luxury compact sedans, as I had no experience with them (driven trucks for years and years). Test drove a 320/328i, Q50, IS 250/300, and a TLX SH-AWD. Having no brand loyalty to any of them, the TLX was really the only car that wasn't a letdown. In fact, if I had never read any magazine/Internet reviews, I would have guessed the TLX was the best car in the class. It felt much more substantial than the others, and that every part of the car worked in harmony with every other part (if that makes any sense).

Acura, while maybe outdone in certain objective performance measurements when compared to other brands, seems like they make the most of every cubic millimeter of every part in the car.

Saintor

Totally unfounded.

Post 2008 EPA range figures are highly statistically representative for the vast, vast, vast majority. Of course, they are not for short commutes or heavy foot drivers.

I don't believe in anecdotes, so keep yours. Thanks.