1Louder

It's all well and good for Mercedes, Lexus or whoever to announce a future fleet of plug-ins or hybrids. To date, those kind of cars coming from "luxury" brands have been in three basic flavors:

1) Gets the MPG right, but car is so under powered you'd never pay luxury-car prices for something that slow (i.e. why not just get an Accord) or
2) Gets MPG wrong by emphasizing power, which makes the whole system a really expensive electronic turbocharger and nothing more, or
3) Gets the MPG and power in the right ratio, but the car is so expensive it's out of reach for most buyers.

In all cases, they usually tie the hybrid system as an option only available in the highest trim level, guaranteeing you'll pay the most possible for the privilege.

So we'll see what all these offerings really get us, or if it's more of the same.

boe_d

The ES 300h is about the closest to getting a balance between good MPG and adequate acceleration.

For me it is a choice - a little more luxury with the ES300h or better fuel with the Accord Hybrid. I would love a TLX that uses the Accord hybrid tech for a good balance of acceleration, MPG and luxury.

open contact

Camry hybrid, Avalon hybrid, and lexus es300h all use the same engine. I had the 2014 camry hybrid, wasnt all that powerful, acceleration was OK.
Es300 is way , way overpriced, might as well get the camry, 15K cheaper, with same engine and tranny.

Kense

I'd say that's the Infiniti Q50 Hybrid. I'm averaging about 31 combined MPG in horrible bay area traffic. Not bad for 360 HP and 400+ lb ft. A member on the q50 forum ran a 4.73 0-60 time as well.

boe_d

The Bay traffic is tough - I don't miss it but then again I'm still stuck in LA. I think if I could get 31/35 on my next car I'd be OK - that is a lead foot 31/35, not car window sticker downhill with a 25lb driver and empty trunk potential mpg. My friend with the Accord is averaging 48MPG and he lives in the valley but drives through my neck of the woods all the time. He's not a slight fellow and has less junk in his car than I do (I stock a LOT of computer components for work). I'd imaging I'd get about 42 MPG in his car and so it is hard for me to consider cars that are getting 10mpg less but I'd like a tad more luxury than his car.

1Louder

I think it's the closest thing too, but I had that car in mind when I wrote up category #3. You're knocking on $50K to pick one up.

boe_d

My guess is $50K is about right. If you include an absurd sales tax, CA certification(S), delivery, etc. I'd be happy to consider an Acura if they had a hybrid TLX. I admit there is a good chance that I'll get the Accord but I'd like to dream that Acura will have a TLX hybrid by the end of the year.

BC01191980

I hope they can replicate the accord hybrid as TLX hybrid.

Have 0-60 about 6 seconds

Fuel economy of 45 mpg or better

It would sell well for sure

1Louder

^ I'd have bought that car without even shopping around.

kurtatx

I think a TLX SH SH-AWD would be pretty sweet. If only they would flip the bias to the rear wheels somehow...

BC01191980

If only Acura would read some of the good comments here.

CARLOS10

Why sell a TLX hybrid ??. People like V8s, RWD, Oil price are down and the forecast is they
will stay for long time , First critic is the TLX is a overprice Accord Hydrid , Acura will never
dare to invest one cent in a TLX Hybrid. What Acura need is a 300 HP coupe.

boe_d

That's like saying why sell the TLX when people like BMW, Lexus, Toyota... Because YOU like V8s doesn't mean everyone wants one.

Oil prices are down at the moment - it is a finite resource with limited places of production and a huge amount of it comes from a very politically unstable region - only a very short sighted fool would assume prices will stay low. Any of us who have been around for an oil embargo know that production, availability and prices are impossible to predict. Furthermore low oil prices don't equate to low gas prices. In LA gas is still about $3.50 a gallon due to taxes which no surprise, CA wants to raise again since gas prices dropped they are worried they won't make enough in taxes on the gas!

A hybrid isn't always chosen to try and reduce costs long term, some of us want longer range and just don't want to go to the gas station every week or even twice a week. We'd rather being doing just about anything else with our time.

a77

The Accord hybrid is one of the hardest cars to get - supplies are tiny. We got two this week and sold them instantly. That's a total of four since it came out. Hybrids don't sell much in red neck truck centred Alberta - we have never sold a 9 gen civic hybrid, less than ten Insights, likewise CRZs. But fuel economy apart the Accord hybrid is a really nice drive. The way it moves off so silently, effortlessly and quickly is amazing and this characteristic would really suit the far better insulated and comfortable TLX. The driving experience more than the fuel savings would be my reason for buying it. I am not saying there is a business case for it, but it would be a fantastic driving experience. My reservation with the HAH is the reduced trunk space and no fold down rear seat. Honda has to realise that this is unacceptable to a great many potential buyers. The battery pack has to go under the trunk floor, rear seat or wherever, not in the boot!

boe_d

They can't keep them on the lot in CA either. My guess though is some addled brained exec is going to look at Accord Hybrid sales and say - gee we didn't sell that many percentage wise - people must not want them instead of finding out the reason they aren't selling that many is Accord dealerships can't get them.

1Louder

This is exactly what kills me about this whole topic. Execs look at low hybrid sales and draw the conclusion we don't want hybrids. The actual truth is no one has built a hybrid that an auto-enthusiast who wants mileage AND performance in a luxury car actually wants to buy. I passed on an Accord hybrid not because I don't want a hybrid, it's that I don't want an Accord.

boe_d

Yeah - I like the Accord engine. The cruise control could use a little work. I'd like the blind spot assistance for both sides of the car.

But I also really want the nicer seats and quieter cabin of the Acura.

1Louder

Actually only a tiny fraction of the car buying population wants RWD V8's. Also, car makers don't design cars based on oil prices. In the late 00's gas prices went from $2.50 -> $4.50 per gallon in less than 12 months. They went back again just as fast. A car's lifecycle from initial inception to final production is probably 8-10 years. Way too long to try and target a market influenced by cheap gas.

Also, the TLX is no where near an over priced Accord. I looked at both carefully before buying the TLX. The TLX is on an entirely different level when it comes to the quality of the materials, interior design, available technology, ride and performance. A very long list of benefits that justify the price difference.

Now what would be a fun offering is that TLX coupe if it were V6 and SH-AWD. Lower the weight, bump the HP to 310 or so, and that would be a fun ride. But if you want to talk about the market, I suspect there are as many if not many more buyers for a hybrid than a coupe. Acura would be targeting a much larger audience with a TLX hybrid.

BC01191980

The main thing hybrids need are better 0-60 times. Electric cars don't have enough options so hybrids are the right alternative to hedge against unstable has prices. Maybe I will get a tesla in 2020.

boe_d

The accord hybrid 0-60 is pretty darn close to my current 2001 Acura TL. While I really do want decent acceleration - I don't need 0-60 in 4 seconds as I'm not drag racing at every light with two kids in beige sports jackets who learned to speak English by watching Howard Cosell.

1Louder

My gripe with the Accord hybrid wasn't power. I was perfectly happy with my 200 hp 06 TSX, and at 190 the Accord hybrid would have been fine.

It was the styling for starters, followed by interior layout, quality of interior, and ultimately available options. The wheels screamed "I'm driving a hybrid". Overall, it was just a bit dull. But then again, all of those complaints would trace to a standard Accord. It's not the hybrid's fault, except for those awful wheels.

But the killer was the Accord hybrid Touring is $37K - right around a comparably equipped 4 cyl TLX that gets very decent mileage without a hybrid. Honda is it's own worst enemy to the Accord Hybrid.

boe_d

I drove my friend's accord hybrid again today. I still like it a LOT. I did notice at times I felt like it wasn't quite in the right gear. I realize it was my imagination as the car accelerated fine at that point it was just the sound of the engine probably. He said I'd get used to that. I still would like nicer seats but other than that, not a shabby car. I think I'd average about 40MPG in it which I realize is far less than the window mpg but I have a lead foot and live in one of the worst parts of the country for stop and go. I average about 19MPG in my current car so that would be a welcome upgrade.

1Louder

^ That's just the CVT. I had a CVT in my Civic hybrid too. It takes some getting used to because it acts different than a standard transmission. The weird part is the engine will rev to like 3K RPM and not move, yet the car accelerates. It's an audible thing too - we're used to an engine reving up, making more noise, then a shift, goes away, revs again, etc. With a CVT, it revs to a constant RPM and stays there, so the noise is constant, not up and down.

boe_d

Exactly. My friend says he doesn't notice it any more - he's had it since November. I've only driven his car twice (haven't taken it on the highway yet) but so far I really like it. With a fully loaded car the MPG is lower than with just the driver but still MUCH better than my car and the acceleration still seemed good enough for my needs and I tend to be the first one leaving every stop light and always the driving at 78MPH on the highway so I'm not driving like some old lady. I'm not driving crazy either though as I've had enough tickets.

BC01191980

I wonder what Acura has on display at the New York auto show

boe_d

The LA autoshow is always a disappointment. It is like driving to your Ford or Acura or Lexus dealership - seeing the models that are already being sold and many of the cars you can't even touch - huge waste of time. I imagine there are good autoshows but the LA one is the pits.

a77

The accord hybrid doesn't have a CVT. It has no transmission. The engine does run a steady speed while the car accelerates as it acting purely as a generator for for the electric motor. In some cruise conditions the engine runs the car directly, bypassing the electrics, where that it the most efficient option. But mostly its running on electric only or in ICE generator mode. Hence the engine sounding out of sync with progress. Something to get used to as you say.

1Louder

^ I looked it up because I thought I was pretty sure:

2015 Honda Accord Hybrid - Specifications - Official Site

Both the hybrid and plug-in hybrid are listed as having a "Electronic-CVT". Not sure exactly what "E-CVT" means over a regular "CVT".

CoquiTSX

E-CVT is what Honda calls the "process" that a77 mentioned.

1Louder

^ Ah - got it. Thanks!

boe_d

For all those people who say that no one wants (probably self projection) a luxury hybrid vehicle - http://www.engadget.com/2015/04/02/b...le-production/

Or a hybrid would be too expensive - Lexus ES300h hybrid sales are now at 25% of all ES sales. The hybrid model is about $2500 more than the non-hybrid model.

1Louder

^ But auto makers sure believe it, or at least they think because our gas is cheap enough or our environment isn't bad enough that we wouldn't be interested.

I was astonished to learn that Lexus sells a IS 300h and an RC 300h coupe, but only in Europe. I would have been really interested in either one of those.

So they just decided for us.

The real reason the 2015 Lexus RC 300h hybrid coupe is not coming to America - Torque News

boe_d

I would have considered the IS too once they revamped the engine the current IS acceleration isn't quite ideal.

boe_d

I guess the new accord hybrid is getting good resale value - 50-MPG Honda Accord Hybrid Named to KBB.com's 10 Best Green Cars List... -- TORRANCE, Calif., April 16, 2015 /PRNewswire/ --

kurtatx

It's a Honda with a particularly novel usage and it delivers on the MPGs unlike certain others in its class *coughfordcough*

boe_d

It seems like the people at Edmunds are happy to have a full time accord hybrid and so are the people at Motor Trend. I keep waffling - TLX, ES300h or the Accord hybrid. I'd really only consider the TLX hybrid if it were one of my choices. I'd be thrilled if I got 40MPG average - they are getting 44 mpg average in this article.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos...age=AAaZNtm|11

boe_d

I guess I missed the news release about the Hybrid TLX
Photos and Videos: 2015 Acura TLX Hybrid Photos - Kelley Blue Book

Rocket_man

Doesn't look like Hybrid pics to me. These looks like standard TLX pics.

1Louder

Yeah it almost looks like a mistake. First is Honda has a long history of using different wheels on its hybrid variants, and they are always badged as a hybrid. Also, acrua.com is not showing a hybrid variant for sale - not now or in the future cars section.

boe_d

Yeah - I don't think there was a hybrid model - I was just kidding. I'm just thinking someone at kbb was wishing there was a hybrid model too