heisnuts

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see what the big deal is adding a quart of oil every 1,000 or 2,000 miles. I have to add gas every 250 miles or so, and that costs a lot more than the quart of oil I would need every 1,000 or 2,000 miles. Come to think of it, I might be able to pick up a quart of oil at the same time as filling up with gas. Since I am at the gas station every 250 miles or so there would be several opportunities to pick up a quart in between.

BEAR-AvHistory

The big deal is the motor is damaged, mal fitting parts, if its using that much oil. The burnt oil residue will coke the valves, kill the plugs, destroy the emissions control system & cats along with reducing fuel economy.

The issue will not improve with age & once you get visible smoke good luck trying to get rid of the car. Even the "its normal dealer" will avoid it like the plague on a trade.

Honda is doing what they always do try to ride it out in hopes the problem will go away. Once the class action suits start to get filed they will address the problem.

heisnuts

If that were the case then we should be seeing a lot of these cars needing valve work, spark plugs and new cats. Maybe I have missed the posts, but I haven't seen any posts like that in the 4G section.

seaeyes

IIHS slightly changed their criteria for "top safety pick +" recently. This can be the reason for TLX delay, because Acura has to make sure TLX get the top most rank from IIHS, just like MDX did.

Safety has become an important feature of Acura cars. They cannot afford to mess it up on TLX, so delay is understandable

BEAR-AvHistory

"Automotive News
October 22, 2013 - 12:00 pm ET
DETROIT -- American Honda Motor Co. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over claims that it manufactured 1,593,755 defective vehicles that excessively burn oil and require frequent spark plug replacements."

There are enough people complaining about the issue now. Over time the trouble will start & maybe the Acura guys will do what the Honda guys have already successfully done.

Same thing happened with the transmissions. People were complaining about hard shifts & popping out of gear. Cheap solution was GM friction modified trans oil. Just a short term fix then the issue continued to build.

About 5 years later Honda issues a TSB & 3rd gear (manufacturing error) & reverse gear collateral damage in many cases (mine @ 25K miles) started to get replaced.

The auto trans issue took Honda another pile of years & a lost class action suit to address with replacements, refunds & extended warranties (Son in Laws car).

Oil problem first reported on this forum for the 4G in 2010 & maybe needs a little more baking time. That or for people to realize that 1QT per 1000 miles is a generally accepted industry standard for an engine problem. Honda has to love guys with your attitude that accepts what they tell you & keeps on dumping the oil in.

Since its not leaking its being burned. A little experiment: put a QT of oil in a small pan. Set a piece of metal above it so it will be in the smoke plume. Burn the oil & look at the underside of the metal sheet. That's what is going into your engine every 1000 miles.

Happy Motoring!

George Knighton

It's pretty hard to change a structural item at this point, so I really do not think this is an issue for getting the car. Not that I know everything of course.

The TLX was designed from the beginning to perform well in the offset tests and the roof strength tests, which are the two big bugbears for most manufacturers these days.

George Knighton

If they don't get this under control, if people are *not* exaggerating the issue, then this will turn into a big deal.

Owners are not required to check their oil to avoid burning up the motor before the 7500 mile to 10,t00 mile maintenance light comes on.

Dealers are all trying to get people to buy extended warranties of 100,000 miles to even 120,000 miles and this is going to get very expensive.

That is if it is 100% true, of course.

hondu

I was not implying you were a newb. I was just wondering what kind of break-in you did and how you changed your oil.

docboy

Meh, I have the same issues in my 4G TL 6MT.

-3rd gear set was replaced due to popping out (so I essentially had to get the transmission rebuilt)
-My Reverse gear sometimes does not engage properly, though I found the remedy is to row the gear from R-1 a few times before shifting to R.
-Current oil burning issue which the dealership denies and says its "characteristic to consume a little oil."

I'm getting a bit worn out trying to resolve the oil consumption due to work and family.

That said, all makes have their own issues, and other brands appear to pass blame onto the consumer too. At this point, if Acura is having more reliability issues and the trend continues to worsen (ie. the 2 new transmissions in the TLX is worthy of keeping an eye on), Acura's selling point and value decreases IMHO.

heisnuts

The lawsuit you mention deals with entirely different motors than the 3.7L motors in the 4G TL. Specifically, the motors listed in the lawsuit have VCM to them, which shuts down cylinders when driving under light engine load, AND have been having misfire codes come up well under 100K that require spark plug replacement under 100k. I just don't see threads here saying that this same thing is happening with the 4G TL. I have no way of knowing if the VCM has anything to do with the problem, but I can't imagine that it is good for a motor to have several of it's cylinders go dead when driving.

It seems like a moot point to argue the point since this is the last year of the TL and the TLX will have a different motor (with VCM i might point out). It also seems moot since even if Acura relaced all the motors that burned oil, they would be replacing them with the exact same motor with the same design.

Since this really seems to be taking this thread off subject, I will end it here.

BEAR-AvHistory

Its not moot. Speaks to a long list of failures going back into the 90’s that Honda had to be forced by customer suit to acknowledge & remedy. They have had both engine & trans issues with every model up to & including the 4G’s Torque Converter & 3.7 Oil burning issues. Google 4G TL oil burning.

The new car is doubling down in an area where Honda has had issues by introducing both new engine & trans combos at the same time. Be interesting to see how the early adopters make out.

BTW: how did the oil burn test go?

fsttyms1

Its not moot, it IS happening to the 3.7, and it is a BIG deal. Having to add a quart of oil every 1k is NOT normal, nor should one have to check it at every fill up or possibly suffer from a seized motor.

Oh and News flash, the motor isnt any different from the J37, to the J35 to the old J30. They all use the same design (as i could take the heads from a J32 and put them on a J37 and vice versa, Crank, pistons rods, Yep could swap between them. What does seem to be the problem could be the cyl liner coating/construction.

Colin

. The devil is in the details. The 3.7 uses the carbon fiber cylinder walls vs cast iron sleeves.

fsttyms1

The 3.7 doesnt use carbon fiber cyl walls.

Both the 3.5-liter and the 3.7-liter engine blocks are constructed of lightweight die-cast aluminum. The 3.5-liter engine has thin-wall iron cylinder liners that are made in a centrifugal spin-casting process that ensures high strength and low porosity. The rough outer surface of these liners makes for an effective bond with the aluminum block, generating good block stiffness and heat transfer from the liners to the block.

The 3.7-liter engine cylinder liners are made of high-silicon aluminum and are cast directly into the aluminum block. The hard piston ring sealing surface of the liners is created during manufacturing with a mechanical etching process that exposes silicon particles embedded in the sleeves. The aluminum sleeves provide better cooling thus allowing closer piston-to-cylinder clearance than iron liners afford. The alloy liners also improve heat dissipation in the area between adjacent cylinder bores, allowing the 3.7-liter engine to have larger cylinder bores, even though its bore-center dimensions (the distance between the centers of adjacent bores) is the same as the 3.5L V-6.

Colin

I've heard it referred to as a carbon-silicon matrix that absorbs aluminum as it's cast, but the critical difference is that it's cast into the block and is much harder than the cast iron sleeves.

George Knighton

Absolutely!

I don't know how they're going to get away with saying 1 quart/1000 miles is normal when you're obviously going to run out of oil before the maintenance time.

Gen4MDX

Honda are you listening?
How do we start a class action lawsuit?

Tonyware

The latest on the oil burning issue is over at the 4Gen TL forum. There is a confirmation that on some J37 engines the piston rings were not installed properly: https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...06&postcount=1 A very dedicated dealership out there got to the bottom of this, no pun intended LOL.

BEAR-AvHistory

Might be having an old timers brain fart but IIRC some other all alloy engines with extremely hard cylinder wall metallurgy, they did not use iron inserts, had oiling problems. Might not be correct but the Chevy Cosworth Vega comes to mind.

seaeyes

What IIHS changed this time is actually the performance requirement of the auto brake system (collision mitigation). So it's mainly of electronic/software part, which can be improved in a relatively short time period.

motegi

I'm a long time Acura enthusiast who had been very excited for the new TLX and hoped to make it my next Acura. Ever since my 1st gen '89 Legend, two 2nd generation Legends, an NSX, two MDXs, and an RL SHAWD I've been an Acura brand devotee.

However this TLX delay has forced both me and my wife to switch brands altogether. We had both been in the market for new cars to replace our daily drivers since late last year. But with the introduction of the TLX at the Detroit Auto Show and initial release reportedly in the April/May timeframe we held out on making a purchase decision until we could drive a TLX. And then came the delays...

The current generation TL never really grew on us and our local dealer had ZERO RLXs available.

We drove over a dozen other cars just a couple weeks ago ended up purchasing these:

For the wife, 2015 Hyundai Genesis 3.8 Tech:





And I traded my RL SH-AWD on an Audi A8L V8 Premium:




The NSX, a 2nd gen Legend, and an MDX are still in my garage but Acura really has dropped the ball with the TLX in my opinion. This is especially painful in light of the perpetually delayed "next" NSX which has been teased for years.

motegi

For those who haven't yet seen or test driven the second generation 2015 Genesis but were turned off by the 1st generation Genesis I strongly encourage that they test drive the new version. The second generation is a vastly improved vehicle in handling/dynamics, materials, interior/exterior design, and telematics. The chassis/suspension tuning by Lotus has really paid dividends here.

And rather than the TLX, I would put the new 2015 Genesis V6 Tech/Ultimate up against the RLX PAWS as the vehicle dimensions are very similar.

2014 RLX PAWS:
MSRP: $50,950 base w/ navi ($60,450 with driver assistance features, CMBS, ACC, LKAS, BSI)
engine: 3.5 liter V6, 310 hp/272 ft-lb
transmission: 6-spd automatic
fuel economy: 20/31 mpg
weight: 3933 lbs
length: 196.1 inches
wheelbase: 112.2 inches
width: 74.4 inches

2015 Genesis 3.8 RWD
MSRP: $38,000 base w/ navi ($45,500 with driver assistance features, auto braking, LKAS, ACC, blind spot monitoring, rear cross traffic alert)
engine: 3.8 liter V6, 311 hp/293 ft-lb
transmission: 8-spd automatic
fuel economy: 18/29 mpg
weight: 4138 lbs
length: 196.5 inches
wheelbase: 118.5 inches
width: 74.4 inches

The first generation Genesis never really impressed me dynamically and I found the interior design and materials to be lacking. The second generation is an entirely different story and my wife chose it as her next car replacing her Infiniti after driving a variety of other cars.

The active driver assistance safety features are impressive when the Genesis is optioned with the Tech package and Hyundai's newest generation Blue Link telematics are among the best that I've seen. To get an RLX even close to the same level you need to go all the way up to the Advance level making the price differential much more extreme.

Of course a huge difference between them is the dealer service amenities with most Hyundai Dealer Service Centers being much more down market. Also the resale value is traditionally better with Acura (although my RL SH-AWD really didn't hold it's value well at all).

graphicguy

Boy....way UP the price ladder for your new rides. Nice cars. Congratz.

I know around here, the RLX w/Tech (all loaded up the way I'd want) is about $45K after discounts. Thinking you're at least $5K above that with the Genesis, like for like. The A8 has to be $85K, at least , including discount.

NIce cars but a really big jump in the price scheme.

You couldn't find any dealer, anywhere with any RLXs? TLX should be here in about 60-75 days.

randomRon82

Gorgeous new rides... congrats

Oswald Vater

Yes, Motegi, very nice rides! While your Audi is more than I would like to spend the Genesis is certainly within my budget. I do plan on giving it a look and test-drive in the next couple of months. Were you able to deal on it or were they sticking close to MSRP?

motegi

You can get a $60k MSRP RLX PAWS Advance for $45k? Wow!

The Advance RLX is the only one that would be equivalent to the $45k Genesis 3.8 Tech with the active driver assistance features. An RLX Tech does not have CMBS, ACC, blind spot monitoring, lane departure assist, etc.

And no, as I said sadly my local Acura dealer had almost no mid/large sedans left in inventory. We've already been waiting for the TLX since it's intro in Detroit in January. We had to draw the line somewhere.

motegi

We bought just a couple weeks after they were released and some dealers were willing to discount. Other dealers were marking them up with insane dealers added items like pinstriping and paint sealant for $2000 over MSRP. Your best bet is to go through a car buying program like geico/truecar or Costco.

Oswald Vater

That's kinda what I thought and why I asked. Usually new models are not discounted until inventory can build up a few months down the road. This will probably happen to TLX as well. Hopefully this will be the case when I'm ready to buy (no later than October) at least for the Genesis. I do tend to use Truecar at least as a minimum starting point but found that some dealers will even go lower than TC's "unusually low" price. I also will be interested in hearing your review of the Genesis after you've had the chance to spend some more time with it.

JT4

[QUOTE

We drove over a dozen other cars just a couple weeks ago ended up purchasing these:

For the wife, 2015 Hyundai Genesis 3.8 Tech:





And I traded my RL SH-AWD on an Audi A8L V8 Premium:



[/QUOTE]

Congrats, enjoy the cars.. Very nice

Tonyware

New ad:


I get the feeling they are marketing it towards 30 something year old single women...?

Maybe its coming soon. Waiting for automotive journalists to drive it and write about it. Probably already have but there is an embargo about it until a certain date?

Terragotti

The commercial is entertaining.

BEAR-AvHistory

Two very nice cars, congrats.

Colin

I noticed that we now have cars scheduled for production in July.

Timmy18

I feel the official on sale date would be near the end of July (my birthday!) / early August.

KeithL

If cars are only going into production in July I see more of a September on sale date.

Tonyware

Oh Wow! An Aston Martin Rapide with more head room

Poor TLX is just an Accord with fancy footwear.

Whatever happened to originality and authenticity in this world?

quantum7

My dealer said that they are getting cars in August....no date, just August. They are taking deposits and offering $500 off on accessories with the deposit. Little tough to put a deposit down on a car that we have not seen much less driven.

a35tl

Just posted this in another thread but in my "August 2014" edition of Car and Driver, which arrived today, there's a 2 page ad just inside the front cover for the 2015 TLX. August must really be the on sale target.

ostrich

If my dealer is accurate, then August seems like the target date for the FWD version, while the SH-AWD version won't be arriving until Sept/Oct. This is still consistent with what we were told before.