TL SH-AWD vs. Q50 AWD vs. IS350 AWD
11-21-2014, 03:13 PM
#161
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
11-21-2014, 03:40 PM
#162
Pro
Except that from 2000-2010(a total of 10 years) Lexus was the most popular and it was led by the RX.
You are understating the importance of SUVS'. BMW and Mercedes are going so hard at their SUV/CUV segments because it's so popular.
Cadillac sales are already down this year and I fully expect Cadillac to finish 6th in 2015.
2014 finish will probably be
Mercedes
BMW
Lexus(unless Lexus make a massive comeback with their RC/NX)
You are understating the importance of SUVS'. BMW and Mercedes are going so hard at their SUV/CUV segments because it's so popular.
Cadillac sales are already down this year and I fully expect Cadillac to finish 6th in 2015.
2014 finish will probably be
Mercedes
BMW
Lexus(unless Lexus make a massive comeback with their RC/NX)
Lexus BMW MB
2002 234,109 232,032 213,225
2003 259,755 240,859 218,551
2004 287,927 260,079 221,366
2005 302,895 266,200 224,269
2006 322,434 274,432 247,934
2007 329,177 293,795 253,277
2008 260,087 249,113 225,009
2009 215,975 196,502 190,538
2010 229,329 220,113 224,944
2011 198,552 247,907 261,769
2012 244,166 281,460 295,063
Pay close attention to the major downswing between 2007 and 2009. Sure, adding the X1 to the sales played a major role in getting BMW sales back up, but it's workhorses, the two highest volume sellers, the 3 series and 5 serise, sold more units in 2013 than 2007 more units by a combined 17000. On the flipside, Lexus's workhorse, the RX sold 600 more units in 2013 than 2007, while the IS sold 20000 fewer units vs 2007, the ES sold 10000 fewer units vs 2007, the LS sold 25000 fewer units vs 2007...
You can't just let your non-SUV products die. Add to them with SUVs/CUVs for people all you want, but look no further than Acura not being what it used to be if you think that leaning on SUVs for 5+ years is going to get you places. They sold a little over 24000 TLs last year in 2013, you guys can tell me to get over the "back in the day stories", but the back in the day 2007 car moved 58545 units, the 05 did 78,218... You don't HAVE to just give up on moving cars. Lexus did and that didn't work out too well for them.
11-21-2014, 03:53 PM
#163
Team Owner
what the hell did Lexus do to get 322,000 units sold in 2007?
as good as Merc and BMW are... they did not see anything close to 300k/year in the last decade and Lexus did it 3 years in a row?
as good as Merc and BMW are... they did not see anything close to 300k/year in the last decade and Lexus did it 3 years in a row?
11-21-2014, 04:15 PM
#164
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Good Car Bad Car numbers
BMW 2013 US 309,280 Canada 31,710
YTD 2014 US 267,193 Canada 27,442
MB 2013 US 334,350 Canada 34,781
YTD 2014 281,729 Canada 31,278
Lexus 2013 US 273,847 Canada 15,949
YTD 2014 US 244,038 Canada 14,654
BMW 2013 US 309,280 Canada 31,710
YTD 2014 US 267,193 Canada 27,442
MB 2013 US 334,350 Canada 34,781
YTD 2014 281,729 Canada 31,278
Lexus 2013 US 273,847 Canada 15,949
YTD 2014 US 244,038 Canada 14,654
11-21-2014, 04:50 PM
#165
Senior Moderator
Your silence is deafening regarding the unsafe TLX outbraking a similarly equipped 328. Couldn't help but notice the same lack of snippy responses for the acceleration stats showing the TLX matching up just fine with the competition. Even though you put it in a different league in terms of acceleration, braking, etc, that groups clearly includes the 328I.
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11-21-2014, 05:08 PM
#166
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2014 Audi Allroad Quattro vs. 2014 BMW 328i xDrive Sports Wagon, 2015 Volvo V60 T6 AWD R-Design: Final Scoring, Performance Data, and Specs
70-0 Audi 161ft 328 165ft Volvo 177ft
2014 BMW 328i xDrive Sports Wagon Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
Top speed (governor limited): 128 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 165 ft
2012 BMW 328i Sport Line Manual Long-Term Test Wrap-Up ? Review ? Car and Driver
Top speed (governor limited): 153 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 165 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rm-test-review
328
Top speed (drag limited): 136 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 159 ft
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...wd-test-review
Top speed (governor limited): 134 mph
TLX
Braking, 70-0 mph: 182 ft
If there is a combo that is as crappy at the TLX I would recommend that people do not buy it & step up to a version that does stop well.
70-0 Audi 161ft 328 165ft Volvo 177ft
2014 BMW 328i xDrive Sports Wagon Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
Top speed (governor limited): 128 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 165 ft
2012 BMW 328i Sport Line Manual Long-Term Test Wrap-Up ? Review ? Car and Driver
Top speed (governor limited): 153 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 165 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rm-test-review
328
Top speed (drag limited): 136 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 159 ft
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...wd-test-review
Top speed (governor limited): 134 mph
TLX
Braking, 70-0 mph: 182 ft
If there is a combo that is as crappy at the TLX I would recommend that people do not buy it & step up to a version that does stop well.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-21-2014 at 05:21 PM.
11-21-2014, 05:11 PM
#167
The Lexus LS actually sold over 30,000+ units that year(shocking for a flagship). People forgot that Mercedes actually suffered a very long period of regression which played a huge part in Lexus being where they are at today. Mercedes really did turn things around starting from the 2010's and haven't looked back though.
Another reason is the exploding popularity of leases. It was harder to pull the trigger on a Mercedes or BMW when you needed to buy the car as oppose to just leasing it.
Obviously Lexus headquarters decided finishing third for 3 years is 3 years too many and is pushing hard for that sales crown again.
Ironically the Lexus line up now that consists of the new
IS/ES/GS/RC 350/RCF/NX/RX/GX are far superior than the Lexus of the mid 2000's but they are no longer #1, when they were #1 with a weaker lineup.
11-21-2014, 05:13 PM
#168
that's not really all that true...It's true for Acura yes, but not on the whole.
Looking at July 2014 YTD numbers...
Omitting Ram, Land Rover, Jaguar, Maserati, Bentley, Jaguar because they don't sell SUVs AND cars ...
July 2014 YTD Sales Leaders by Make:
Acura: MDX (followed by RDX)
Audi: Q5 (followed by A4)
BMW: 3/4 series (followed by 5 series)
Buick: Enclave (followed by LaCrosse)
Cadillac: SRX (folllowed by CTS)
Chevrolet: Silverado (followed by Cruze)
Chrysler: Town and Country (followed by 200)
Dodge: Grand Caravan (followed by Charger)
Ford : F-Series (followed by Fusion)
Honda: Accord (followed by Civic)
Hyundai: Elantra (followed by Sonata)
Infiniti: Q50 (followed by QX60)
Kia: Optima (followed by Soul)
Lexus: RX (followed by ES)
Lincoln: MKZ (followed by MKX)
Mazda: 3 (followed by CX-5)
Mercedes: E Class (followed by C class)
Mini: Cooper (followed by Countryman)
Mitsubishi: Outlander Sport (followed by Lancer)
Nissan: Altima (followed by Rogue)
Porsche: Cayenne (followed by 911, and it's a lot closer than you'd guess: 10,259 vs 6017)
Subaru: Forester (followed by Impreza)
Toyota: Camry (followed by Corolla)
Volkswagen: Jetta (followed by Passat
Volvo: S60 (followed by XC60)
So, as you can see, only a few car companies are led by SUV sales. The Audi Q5/A4 gap is tiny (23,117 vs 22,492). Lexus has always been led by the RX. I'm a bit surprised by how poorly the Cadillac ATS and CTS are selling considering how well the previous gen CTS did.. If Acura can move 5000-6000 TLXs a month, it may recapture the title from the MDX.
For the two most popular mainstream imports (Honda & Toyota) and the two most popular luxury imports (BMW & Mercedes), SUVs are nowhere near the front of their packs.
On the topic of the NSX, i'll believe it when I see it. The C7 Z06 probably has my attention the most at the moment. Although I'm still a fan of the GTR. I'm not sure I even want to know what Acura intends to do for the NSX price, but i'm sure it will be too rich for my blood!
Looking at July 2014 YTD numbers...
Omitting Ram, Land Rover, Jaguar, Maserati, Bentley, Jaguar because they don't sell SUVs AND cars ...
July 2014 YTD Sales Leaders by Make:
Acura: MDX (followed by RDX)
Audi: Q5 (followed by A4)
BMW: 3/4 series (followed by 5 series)
Buick: Enclave (followed by LaCrosse)
Cadillac: SRX (folllowed by CTS)
Chevrolet: Silverado (followed by Cruze)
Chrysler: Town and Country (followed by 200)
Dodge: Grand Caravan (followed by Charger)
Ford : F-Series (followed by Fusion)
Honda: Accord (followed by Civic)
Hyundai: Elantra (followed by Sonata)
Infiniti: Q50 (followed by QX60)
Kia: Optima (followed by Soul)
Lexus: RX (followed by ES)
Lincoln: MKZ (followed by MKX)
Mazda: 3 (followed by CX-5)
Mercedes: E Class (followed by C class)
Mini: Cooper (followed by Countryman)
Mitsubishi: Outlander Sport (followed by Lancer)
Nissan: Altima (followed by Rogue)
Porsche: Cayenne (followed by 911, and it's a lot closer than you'd guess: 10,259 vs 6017)
Subaru: Forester (followed by Impreza)
Toyota: Camry (followed by Corolla)
Volkswagen: Jetta (followed by Passat
Volvo: S60 (followed by XC60)
So, as you can see, only a few car companies are led by SUV sales. The Audi Q5/A4 gap is tiny (23,117 vs 22,492). Lexus has always been led by the RX. I'm a bit surprised by how poorly the Cadillac ATS and CTS are selling considering how well the previous gen CTS did.. If Acura can move 5000-6000 TLXs a month, it may recapture the title from the MDX.
For the two most popular mainstream imports (Honda & Toyota) and the two most popular luxury imports (BMW & Mercedes), SUVs are nowhere near the front of their packs.
On the topic of the NSX, i'll believe it when I see it. The C7 Z06 probably has my attention the most at the moment. Although I'm still a fan of the GTR. I'm not sure I even want to know what Acura intends to do for the NSX price, but i'm sure it will be too rich for my blood!
BMW, Audi, Lexus pushing hard on SUV and crossovers. Just look at the new product announcements.
11-21-2014, 05:20 PM
#169
Actually, that's fairly innaccurate.
Lexus BMW MB
2002 234,109 232,032 213,225
2003 259,755 240,859 218,551
2004 287,927 260,079 221,366
2005 302,895 266,200 224,269
2006 322,434 274,432 247,934
2007 329,177 293,795 253,277
2008 260,087 249,113 225,009
2009 215,975 196,502 190,538
2010 229,329 220,113 224,944
2011 198,552 247,907 261,769
2012 244,166 281,460 295,063
Pay close attention to the major downswing between 2007 and 2009. Sure, adding the X1 to the sales played a major role in getting BMW sales back up, but it's workhorses, the two highest volume sellers, the 3 series and 5 serise, sold more units in 2013 than 2007 more units by a combined 17000. On the flipside, Lexus's workhorse, the RX sold 600 more units in 2013 than 2007, while the IS sold 20000 fewer units vs 2007, the ES sold 10000 fewer units vs 2007, the LS sold 25000 fewer units vs 2007...
You can't just let your non-SUV products die. Add to them with SUVs/CUVs for people all you want, but look no further than Acura not being what it used to be if you think that leaning on SUVs for 5+ years is going to get you places. They sold a little over 24000 TLs last year in 2013, you guys can tell me to get over the "back in the day stories", but the back in the day 2007 car moved 58545 units, the 05 did 78,218... You don't HAVE to just give up on moving cars. Lexus did and that didn't work out too well for them.
Lexus BMW MB
2002 234,109 232,032 213,225
2003 259,755 240,859 218,551
2004 287,927 260,079 221,366
2005 302,895 266,200 224,269
2006 322,434 274,432 247,934
2007 329,177 293,795 253,277
2008 260,087 249,113 225,009
2009 215,975 196,502 190,538
2010 229,329 220,113 224,944
2011 198,552 247,907 261,769
2012 244,166 281,460 295,063
Pay close attention to the major downswing between 2007 and 2009. Sure, adding the X1 to the sales played a major role in getting BMW sales back up, but it's workhorses, the two highest volume sellers, the 3 series and 5 serise, sold more units in 2013 than 2007 more units by a combined 17000. On the flipside, Lexus's workhorse, the RX sold 600 more units in 2013 than 2007, while the IS sold 20000 fewer units vs 2007, the ES sold 10000 fewer units vs 2007, the LS sold 25000 fewer units vs 2007...
You can't just let your non-SUV products die. Add to them with SUVs/CUVs for people all you want, but look no further than Acura not being what it used to be if you think that leaning on SUVs for 5+ years is going to get you places. They sold a little over 24000 TLs last year in 2013, you guys can tell me to get over the "back in the day stories", but the back in the day 2007 car moved 58545 units, the 05 did 78,218... You don't HAVE to just give up on moving cars. Lexus did and that didn't work out too well for them.
This is just opinion but I really do believe that if Lexus had unleashed the RC 350 and NX around June this year instead of Nov and Dec........they would have regained the sales crown.
Lexus have done a fantastic job of narrowing the gap that BMW/MB created after the 2010's.........
11-21-2014, 05:26 PM
#170
Also Lexus didn't lose the sales crown because they stop concentrating on sedans. That's a laughable myth. They lost the sales crown because the Japanese supply train stopped for 5 straight months. Leaving tens of thousands of Lexus cars in stagnant on the homeland. During that time, all those shoppers inevitably went to the Germans and Infiniti/Acura.
Were the Germans building better products? Yes. But the tsunami played a huge part in the sales charts reflecting it as fast as it did.
If the tsunami never happened, Lexus's redesign would have been ready to counter the rising Germans before even losing the sales crown.
Were the Germans building better products? Yes. But the tsunami played a huge part in the sales charts reflecting it as fast as it did.
If the tsunami never happened, Lexus's redesign would have been ready to counter the rising Germans before even losing the sales crown.
11-21-2014, 05:27 PM
#171
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2014 Audi Allroad Quattro vs. 2014 BMW 328i xDrive Sports Wagon, 2015 Volvo V60 T6 AWD R-Design: Final Scoring, Performance Data, and Specs
70-0 Audi 161ft 328 165ft Volvo 177ft
2014 BMW 328i xDrive Sports Wagon Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
Top speed (governor limited): 128 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 165 ft
2012 BMW 328i Sport Line Manual Long-Term Test Wrap-Up ? Review ? Car and Driver
Top speed (governor limited): 153 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 165 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g
2014 BMW 328d Diesel Wagon Long-Term Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
328
Top speed (drag limited): 136 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 159 ft
2015 Acura TLX 3.5 V-6 FWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
Top speed (governor limited): 134 mph
TLX
Braking, 70-0 mph: 182 ft
If there is a combo that is as crappy at the TLX I would recommend that people do not buy it & step up to a version that does stop well.
70-0 Audi 161ft 328 165ft Volvo 177ft
2014 BMW 328i xDrive Sports Wagon Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
Top speed (governor limited): 128 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 165 ft
2012 BMW 328i Sport Line Manual Long-Term Test Wrap-Up ? Review ? Car and Driver
Top speed (governor limited): 153 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 165 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g
2014 BMW 328d Diesel Wagon Long-Term Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
328
Top speed (drag limited): 136 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 159 ft
2015 Acura TLX 3.5 V-6 FWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
Top speed (governor limited): 134 mph
TLX
Braking, 70-0 mph: 182 ft
If there is a combo that is as crappy at the TLX I would recommend that people do not buy it & step up to a version that does stop well.
Its nice to have a choice. I run M-Sport fixed caliper multi piston brakes on my car. Its too bad Acura took away the choice of better brakes when they canned the Brembos
11-21-2014, 05:48 PM
#172
Suzuka Master
BTW If there is a combo that is as crappy at the TLX I would recommend that people do not buy it & step up to a version that does stop well.
Its nice to have a choice. I run M-Sport fixed caliper multi piston brakes on my car. Its too bad Acura took away the choice of better brakes when they canned the Brembos
Its nice to have a choice. I run M-Sport fixed caliper multi piston brakes on my car. Its too bad Acura took away the choice of better brakes when they canned the Brembos
11-21-2014, 05:49 PM
#173
Senior Moderator
I like apples.
2012 BMW 328i Sedan Automatic Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
A/T, sedan, all seasons. You know, the model that people actually buy, not the wagons, or even better, the diesel wagon. ROFL. You couldn't find a more obscure model?
I guess the bread and butter of the 3 series lineup should be recalled for unsafe braking, and no one should buy them.
For the record, I don't believe any of these numbers are unsafe, just pointing out the ridiculousness of his statements.
Since we are sharing random info, I run 8 piston Brembos on my RS which are shared with the Gallardo.
2012 BMW 328i Sedan Automatic Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
A/T, sedan, all seasons. You know, the model that people actually buy, not the wagons, or even better, the diesel wagon. ROFL. You couldn't find a more obscure model?
I guess the bread and butter of the 3 series lineup should be recalled for unsafe braking, and no one should buy them.
For the record, I don't believe any of these numbers are unsafe, just pointing out the ridiculousness of his statements.
Since we are sharing random info, I run 8 piston Brembos on my RS which are shared with the Gallardo.
Last edited by Mr Hyde; 11-21-2014 at 05:55 PM.
11-21-2014, 06:44 PM
#174
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2013 BMW 320i Test ? Review ?Car and Driver
320 stripper. $34,700
Top speed (governor limited): 155 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 163 ft
Neat cars those Lambos. Nice vid of a Gallardo against an FFR on a road course about 5:30 in. The Lambo won.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-21-2014 at 06:54 PM.
11-21-2014, 08:27 PM
#175
Senior Moderator
Strip out the weight of options like sunroof, power seats, navi, etc, etc, and if that wasn't enough, toss on summer tires, and what do you know, it stops even shorter; imagine that. I already provided the most equivalent comparison vehicle, but I know it blows a hole in your TLX being unsafe, and 328 being far superior arguments.
11-22-2014, 12:28 AM
#176
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
11-22-2014, 12:30 AM
#177
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Bear.. I just watched your vid of teh beasts' first start.. just beautiful. 
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BEAR-AvHistory (11-22-2014)
11-22-2014, 10:24 AM
#178
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Strip out the weight of options like sunroof, power seats, navi, etc, etc, and if that wasn't enough, toss on summer tires, and what do you know, it stops even shorter; imagine that. I already provided the most equivalent comparison vehicle, but I know it blows a hole in your TLX being unsafe, and 328 being far superior arguments.
Personally. I would not want to drive a car with brakes that were not first class. But apparently that's just me in this conversation.
Noticed you ignored all the current tests & went back to 2012 to find one that suited you.
If the 328 was consistently shown to be poor in stopping distance it should be skipped over as a buying candidate with its basic brakes.
If someone was set on any car with crappy brakes I would recommend optional ones, which are not available on the TLX.
Its not my fault that Acura leaves you with no alternative but going aftermarket for brakes & tires.
2012 BMW 328i Sport First Test - Motor Trend Page 2
2012 328
BRAKING, 60-0 MPH 107 ft
11-22-2014, 10:31 AM
#179
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Thing I like about the FFR/Lambo vid is mine is an exact clone of the red one except for tire brand. Nice to see what a pro driver can do with it.
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Majofo (11-23-2014)
11-22-2014, 11:27 AM
#180
Senior Moderator
I must have missed the parts were all those reviewers said or implied anything indicating that TLX owners would be plowing into everyone on the roads.
I picked the high volume A/T sedan with all seasons. You picked wagons, diesels, diesel wagons, and stripped out sport package sedans on high performance summer tires. Which are more equivalent to the TLX? Talk about stacking the deck. what a hypocrite.
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dysonlu (11-26-2014)
11-22-2014, 12:53 PM
#181
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I said that the TLX had the worse stopping distance in its segment according to the narrative in the 4 tests. I also said it have fade problems as reported in the same tests.
My original post was just to show that many first year models have issues. You & Stew over reacted & went into recalls, safety & everything else to defend. I expect that's because I posted & you are the self designated BEAR monitor
Pure logic says it one car will stop in 100 feet & another will take 125ft from the same speed the 100 footer is safer than the 125footer by a 25 foot cushion. If brakes fade you have no brakes. You really want to debate that fact?
I also said if the 2012 328 had long stopping distances as you posted from C&D, you did not post anything on fade, I would not buy it with those brakes. At least it has an alternative set of brakes to move to.
That said the first group of tests that show up on C&D when you search BMW 328 are what I posted. You might not like them but they are what they are & show what you can have. Even the cheepo $35K 320 did very very well, best so far.
That said all the current test show good 328 results & if the TLX is worse in the class something must have changed other than the TLX going down hill from the 3 & 4G versions. Maybe while the TLX performance tanked compared to the earlier generations TL the other cars were getting better, who knows but an apples to apples 2015/2015 test might show what is the current state in braking land.
At the end of the day you are still defending as just honkey dory the poor performance of the brakes that the 4 tests had felt necessary to make specific mention of.
If the brakes are good enough for you what can I say other than they are not good enough for me.
My original post was just to show that many first year models have issues. You & Stew over reacted & went into recalls, safety & everything else to defend. I expect that's because I posted & you are the self designated BEAR monitor
Pure logic says it one car will stop in 100 feet & another will take 125ft from the same speed the 100 footer is safer than the 125footer by a 25 foot cushion. If brakes fade you have no brakes. You really want to debate that fact?
I also said if the 2012 328 had long stopping distances as you posted from C&D, you did not post anything on fade, I would not buy it with those brakes. At least it has an alternative set of brakes to move to.
That said the first group of tests that show up on C&D when you search BMW 328 are what I posted. You might not like them but they are what they are & show what you can have. Even the cheepo $35K 320 did very very well, best so far.
That said all the current test show good 328 results & if the TLX is worse in the class something must have changed other than the TLX going down hill from the 3 & 4G versions. Maybe while the TLX performance tanked compared to the earlier generations TL the other cars were getting better, who knows but an apples to apples 2015/2015 test might show what is the current state in braking land.
At the end of the day you are still defending as just honkey dory the poor performance of the brakes that the 4 tests had felt necessary to make specific mention of.
If the brakes are good enough for you what can I say other than they are not good enough for me.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-22-2014 at 12:57 PM.
11-22-2014, 02:31 PM
#182
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another thread went off topic. I clearly said lets forget about German cars. We were supposed to discuss TLX - Q50 - IS but in the past 10 or more posts we are discussing BMW lol
11-22-2014, 02:45 PM
#183
Senior Moderator
Moderators are supposed to watch the trolls. Who made you the savior of the ill informed looking at the TLX?
Still conveniently ignoring the summer tires impact on braking distance, what a surprise. Keep using your stacked deck as a baseline. Your biased comparisons are not that obvious.
Now you've gone from TLX owners plowing into everyone to the brakes not being up to par for you. I'm sure 328s posting similar numbers had nothing to do with that change. The brakes are fine for street use, and everything except any kind of track use, but then again what do I know, I've only been driving the car, you read reviews.
Still conveniently ignoring the summer tires impact on braking distance, what a surprise. Keep using your stacked deck as a baseline. Your biased comparisons are not that obvious.
Now you've gone from TLX owners plowing into everyone to the brakes not being up to par for you. I'm sure 328s posting similar numbers had nothing to do with that change. The brakes are fine for street use, and everything except any kind of track use, but then again what do I know, I've only been driving the car, you read reviews.
Last edited by Mr Hyde; 11-22-2014 at 02:47 PM.
11-22-2014, 05:28 PM
#184
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You keep harping on the 328. A car I would not buy because it has a poor overall level of performance for what I look for in a DD. Its the grocery getter 3 series even with higher end brakes. You might have a problem with it having options for better braking for people who are interested in such things but its immaterial to me. The car is not on my list.
Regardless the TLX is still listed at the bottom of the pile with disappointing brake performance. Saying another car sucks does not change the fact that the TLX also sucks.
Its really tuff that Honda has a one size fits all strategy. You keep complaining about summer tires that other brands provide to people interested in more than an oatmeal version as somehow being unfair.
Nice to know you think the TLX is the 328's equal but if the 2012 brakes suck then so do the 2015 TLX's. The 2015 TLX has the worse braking performance of any TL this century.
Do you believe the TLX has good brakes as its comes from the dealer? Or are you just interested in obfuscating to deflect attention from the 4 published reviews?
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...wd-test-review
2015 Acura TLX Road Test | Edmunds.com
2015 Acura TLX Review - Road Test / Track Test - Road & Track
Motor Trend
The TLX needed 124 feet to stop from 60 mph, 2 feet better than the lighter TSX and a foot better than the front-drive TL. The TL SH-AWD would do it in as little as 103 feet with the manual, 117 feet with the automatic.
Hey do you want to talk about CR tanking the LED headlights as a step back?
Regardless the TLX is still listed at the bottom of the pile with disappointing brake performance. Saying another car sucks does not change the fact that the TLX also sucks.
Its really tuff that Honda has a one size fits all strategy. You keep complaining about summer tires that other brands provide to people interested in more than an oatmeal version as somehow being unfair.
Nice to know you think the TLX is the 328's equal but if the 2012 brakes suck then so do the 2015 TLX's. The 2015 TLX has the worse braking performance of any TL this century.
Do you believe the TLX has good brakes as its comes from the dealer? Or are you just interested in obfuscating to deflect attention from the 4 published reviews?
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...wd-test-review
2015 Acura TLX Road Test | Edmunds.com
2015 Acura TLX Review - Road Test / Track Test - Road & Track
Motor Trend
The TLX needed 124 feet to stop from 60 mph, 2 feet better than the lighter TSX and a foot better than the front-drive TL. The TL SH-AWD would do it in as little as 103 feet with the manual, 117 feet with the automatic.
Hey do you want to talk about CR tanking the LED headlights as a step back?
11-22-2014, 06:14 PM
#186
Senior Moderator
Sounds to me like someone was driving around with their DRLs on. That comes from someone with first hand experiernce, and hasn't driven a car without HIDs for 15 years including adaptive Euro projector lenses on my current car. I also have direct comparisons to the 4G TL, TSX, and my brother's 335 xdrive. Even he agreed, they are distinctly brighter, and sharper than standard HIDs. But again what do we know? What's first hand experience compared to what you read. Especially on something that wasn't tested, but observed. Really grasping at anything you can now? How sad.
CR is big on safety, mention of the unsafe brakes? Must have missed that. I did catch them tanking the 3 off the recommended list though.
I've been looking for a quick self esteem boost, and have been thinking about trolling the 335 forums with my RS. Any suggestions?
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dysonlu (11-26-2014)
11-22-2014, 06:23 PM
#187
*sigh*
What has happened to this forum in the last few months....I think I am done!
What has happened to this forum in the last few months....I think I am done!
11-22-2014, 07:00 PM
#188
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
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Guess it was sort of like well the TLX sucks but so does the 328 so there. The question is that effects me how? I don't have a 328. I do have a less expensive 135 & it tested at 158ft from 70mph.
As for your self esteem that comes from the inside not the outside so I can't offer an suggestions to help your problem. You either have it or you don't; no one can confer it on you.
Best of luck in finding it.
BTW you must be making some of this stuff up:
2014 BMW 328i Wins Consumer Reports Sport Sedan Award
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2014/02/26...t-sedan-award/
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-22-2014 at 07:09 PM.
11-22-2014, 07:30 PM
#189
Senior Moderator
Per you in the Edmund's thread the V6 AWD version of the TLX could only match up to the 320 performance wise
For the rest, I figure this works so well for you, so may as well go to the expert for recommendations.
I know you shouldn't feed the trolls, but sometimes you just can't help it.
I know you shouldn't feed the trolls, but sometimes you just can't help it.
11-22-2014, 09:58 PM
#190
It does strike me as odd that folks who aren't fans of Acuras are posting on this forum. It's like they have nothing better to do than crash a party, spill the punch, and puke on the floor.
Good times.
Good times.
11-23-2014, 08:14 AM
#192
Suzuka Master
I do believe that some come here and post in a effort to dissuade possible buyers, the ones that lurk as guests (or just non posting members), from buying the TLX. It's like they want to people buy the brand they have be it Infiniti, Lexus, BMW or Audi.
Then, those wonderful posters, eluded to above, ridicule those of us that like the car and counter their BS posts asking for facts.
As one member has mentioned, it's like playing "Whack A mole"
Oh well, it's a free country and still have freedom of speech (for now), we will just deal with it
Weather, don't give up, dammit!
11-23-2014, 08:27 AM
#193
*lol* I am trying not to give up and I hope you guys don't view me as the "negative one" because trust me when I say that I still think the TLX is an AMAZING car and want one in my driveway more than anything...I just want to make sure that it addresses the few outstanding glitches before I commit, especially since I live so far away from my dealership...I need something that is bulletproof (as much as possible).
Thanks for reaching out and asking me to stick around...I enjoy interacting with you guys and gals....Most of you anyway *lol* Like you said, no harm in having an opinion and expressing it but I don't like personal attacks on people and sometime, we all need to take the highroad and not engage in the none stop back and forth....
Thanks for reaching out and asking me to stick around...I enjoy interacting with you guys and gals....Most of you anyway *lol* Like you said, no harm in having an opinion and expressing it but I don't like personal attacks on people and sometime, we all need to take the highroad and not engage in the none stop back and forth....
11-23-2014, 08:30 AM
#194
Liquid Ice
The topic is TL vs. Q50 vs. IS350 right?
It'd be one thing if someone jumped into a thread about their new TLX and trolled and said "you should have gotten an IS!" ... but this thread topic I believe welcomes discussions about other cars. Especially the Q50 and IS350 -- right?
If you wanted this thread to be about how awesome the TLX is - then you shouldn't have posted the topic asking about comparisons to the Q50 and IS350...
Just saying you shouldn't be surprised that people are discussing Lexus and Infiniti if you post a topic about comparing them to the TLX.
I'll give you - BMW and Ford though since that wasn't the original topic
It'd be one thing if someone jumped into a thread about their new TLX and trolled and said "you should have gotten an IS!" ... but this thread topic I believe welcomes discussions about other cars. Especially the Q50 and IS350 -- right?
If you wanted this thread to be about how awesome the TLX is - then you shouldn't have posted the topic asking about comparisons to the Q50 and IS350...
Just saying you shouldn't be surprised that people are discussing Lexus and Infiniti if you post a topic about comparing them to the TLX.
I'll give you - BMW and Ford though since that wasn't the original topic
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Majofo (11-23-2014)
11-23-2014, 08:47 AM
#195
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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I don't mind hearing from other car brand owners, even negative feedback from their ACTUAL, not read, experiences from seeing and/or driving the car. It gets old quick when those joy sponges feel the need to continually nitpick the car this forum is created for. It's obvious they have no intention of buying this car and yet, they feel we need to read those negative "opinions" over and over.
I do believe that some come here and post in a effort to dissuade possible buyers, the ones that lurk as guests (or just non posting members), from buying the TLX. It's like they want to people buy the brand they have be it Infiniti, Lexus, BMW or Audi.
Then, those wonderful posters, eluded to above, ridicule those of us that like the car and counter their BS posts asking for facts.
As one member has mentioned, it's like playing "Whack A mole"
Oh well, it's a free country and still have freedom of speech (for now), we will just deal with it
Weather, don't give up, dammit!
I do believe that some come here and post in a effort to dissuade possible buyers, the ones that lurk as guests (or just non posting members), from buying the TLX. It's like they want to people buy the brand they have be it Infiniti, Lexus, BMW or Audi.
Then, those wonderful posters, eluded to above, ridicule those of us that like the car and counter their BS posts asking for facts.
As one member has mentioned, it's like playing "Whack A mole"
Oh well, it's a free country and still have freedom of speech (for now), we will just deal with it
Weather, don't give up, dammit!
Well said!!!
11-23-2014, 08:50 AM
#196
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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The topic is TL vs. Q50 vs. IS350 right?
It'd be one thing if someone jumped into a thread about their new TLX and trolled and said "you should have gotten an IS!" ... but this thread topic I believe welcomes discussions about other cars. Especially the Q50 and IS350 -- right?
If you wanted this thread to be about how awesome the TLX is - then you shouldn't have posted the topic asking about comparisons to the Q50 and IS350...
Just saying you shouldn't be surprised that people are discussing Lexus and Infiniti if you post a topic about comparing them to the TLX.
I'll give you - BMW and Ford though since that wasn't the original topic
It'd be one thing if someone jumped into a thread about their new TLX and trolled and said "you should have gotten an IS!" ... but this thread topic I believe welcomes discussions about other cars. Especially the Q50 and IS350 -- right?
If you wanted this thread to be about how awesome the TLX is - then you shouldn't have posted the topic asking about comparisons to the Q50 and IS350...
Just saying you shouldn't be surprised that people are discussing Lexus and Infiniti if you post a topic about comparing them to the TLX.
I'll give you - BMW and Ford though since that wasn't the original topic
If we discuss about TLX, Is and Q50, i don't see ant problem. But read the last 15-20 posts. We are talking about BMW
Anyway, it's an open forum and I don't care. But members and visitors come here to see the comparison between the above mentioned cars and they see we are talking about Ford Fusion, BMW and Audi.
11-23-2014, 09:55 AM
#197
Instructor
I have been with Acura TL brand for 12years. Owned 2001 TL tech,2007 TL type S, 2009 TL Tech, 2012 TL Sh Awd tech..
I was in a market for new car . My 12 TL was lease due in Feb 2015, Shop around for cars in same category as TL. I wanted the TLX awd tech but the prices are crazy at this point. Looked at BMW 3 and 5 series, Bmw got crazy for every option u add the price went up and they are 4cyl turbo which I am not a fan of those small engines.Also looked at Lexus Is and Gs , Is was too small and Gs was also not a great lease price. Also looked Mercedes but was not too much into it. Jeep Grand Cherokee was also as my SUV but it was my last choice.Soo I end up getting, Infiniti Q50 Awd Premium with Navi. I have the car for couple weeks and I got to say I love the car overall. Price on Infiniti was by far the best price for the money. It drives really good and quality to me is also great. Didnt get chance to open it up but it feels it has the power.It was hard to leave Acura but they have to have better price program to buy me back. In this case Infiniti was the best.
I was in a market for new car . My 12 TL was lease due in Feb 2015, Shop around for cars in same category as TL. I wanted the TLX awd tech but the prices are crazy at this point. Looked at BMW 3 and 5 series, Bmw got crazy for every option u add the price went up and they are 4cyl turbo which I am not a fan of those small engines.Also looked at Lexus Is and Gs , Is was too small and Gs was also not a great lease price. Also looked Mercedes but was not too much into it. Jeep Grand Cherokee was also as my SUV but it was my last choice.Soo I end up getting, Infiniti Q50 Awd Premium with Navi. I have the car for couple weeks and I got to say I love the car overall. Price on Infiniti was by far the best price for the money. It drives really good and quality to me is also great. Didnt get chance to open it up but it feels it has the power.It was hard to leave Acura but they have to have better price program to buy me back. In this case Infiniti was the best.
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Toddo627 (11-23-2014)
11-23-2014, 09:58 AM
#198
Racer
100% agreed!!!
If we discuss about TLX, Is and Q50, i don't see ant problem. But read the last 15-20 posts. We are talking about BMW
Anyway, it's an open forum and I don't care. But members and visitors come here to see the comparison between the above mentioned cars and they see we are talking about Ford Fusion, BMW and Audi.
If we discuss about TLX, Is and Q50, i don't see ant problem. But read the last 15-20 posts. We are talking about BMW
Anyway, it's an open forum and I don't care. But members and visitors come here to see the comparison between the above mentioned cars and they see we are talking about Ford Fusion, BMW and Audi.
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a35tl (11-23-2014)
11-23-2014, 10:10 AM
#199
Suzuka Master
*lol* I am trying not to give up and I hope you guys don't view me as the "negative one" because trust me when I say that I still think the TLX is an AMAZING car and want one in my driveway more than anything...I just want to make sure that it addresses the few outstanding glitches before I commit, especially since I live so far away from my dealership...I need something that is bulletproof (as much as possible).
Thanks for reaching out and asking me to stick around...I enjoy interacting with you guys and gals....Most of you anyway *lol* Like you said, no harm in having an opinion and expressing it but I don't like personal attacks on people and sometime, we all need to take the highroad and not engage in the none stop back and forth....
Thanks for reaching out and asking me to stick around...I enjoy interacting with you guys and gals....Most of you anyway *lol* Like you said, no harm in having an opinion and expressing it but I don't like personal attacks on people and sometime, we all need to take the highroad and not engage in the none stop back and forth....
It's hard to do sometimes but the rule of thumb I used to hear on the High Def Forums was to "Attack the post, not the poster". I will do better
I'd miss your humor if you left!
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weather (11-23-2014)
11-23-2014, 10:43 AM
#200
Senior Moderator
I'm perfectly fine with people with negative opinions, even non owners, but when that's your only agenda here, and you are just continually trying to point out the tiniest imperfections, and beat people over the head with them reportedly, well that's another story.
This is especially true when you contribute little actual help, and little positivity to the forum, and it's membership.
It's not like every car doesn't have it's negatives, so I don't understand why some need to spend such considerable amounts of time taking jabs at other people's issues instead of focusing on those closer to home.
And with that note, if this thread wasn't derailed before, it can't get any further of course now.
This is especially true when you contribute little actual help, and little positivity to the forum, and it's membership.
It's not like every car doesn't have it's negatives, so I don't understand why some need to spend such considerable amounts of time taking jabs at other people's issues instead of focusing on those closer to home.
And with that note, if this thread wasn't derailed before, it can't get any further of course now.
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