TL SH-AWD vs. Q50 AWD vs. IS350 AWD
11-20-2014, 04:59 AM
#121
Suzuka Master
Don't confuse the readers with opinions by professional testers. Long stopping distances have nothing to do with track day & everything to do with smacking someone on the street during a panic stop.
Edmunds which is not noted for flogging its test cars even had fade on the initial stop.
So far every road test I read has mentioned long stopping distances & brake fade. Its not a new story. In the famous compare road test of 2010 they had to rest the TL 4G after every lap to have the brakes cool while the other 3 cars kept rolling along.
They typically have had longer than average stopping distance on the first stop. For guys buying a grocery getter no big deal but one shot then fade sets in is not the sign of a quality braking system.
A very very very small amount of research on this forum will uncover rocking brake issues on stops. Maybe not a big deal to some but an annoyance that had a discussion about it.
Its certainly something that can be eliminated without much effort on Honda's part
At one time Acura had high quality brakes that were the optional Brembo’s on the 3G.
Stew its more than those two reviews do a search. As for a TSB how many years did it take to get the TSB for the 6MT? Did it take losing a class action suit to get the 5AT addressed?
Edmunds which is not noted for flogging its test cars even had fade on the initial stop.
So far every road test I read has mentioned long stopping distances & brake fade. Its not a new story. In the famous compare road test of 2010 they had to rest the TL 4G after every lap to have the brakes cool while the other 3 cars kept rolling along.
They typically have had longer than average stopping distance on the first stop. For guys buying a grocery getter no big deal but one shot then fade sets in is not the sign of a quality braking system.
A very very very small amount of research on this forum will uncover rocking brake issues on stops. Maybe not a big deal to some but an annoyance that had a discussion about it.
Its certainly something that can be eliminated without much effort on Honda's part
At one time Acura had high quality brakes that were the optional Brembo’s on the 3G.
Stew its more than those two reviews do a search. As for a TSB how many years did it take to get the TSB for the 6MT? Did it take losing a class action suit to get the 5AT addressed?
11-20-2014, 08:24 AM
#122
Not that I expect anyone to reads this because the thread has become a pissing contest but here we go -- there are a lot of really smart people figuring out price points and margins at car manufacturers. They know the segment they want to target, they know the price tolerance of that segment, they even know the value of their brand and how that affects pricing. They know to a nano penny what it costs to add a screw and how that affects margins. BMW has about the 11th most valuable brand, Lexus about 87th, Acuras not on the list. Every manufacturer cuts corners to meet price points and make money. My Lexus Fsport has great brakes. That's what I would expect in an Fsport. But it cuts corners elsewhere. Acura is offering 1st gen doodads because that's what that demo expects. They cut costs by offering more basic brakes. Why? People who want a whole bunch of safety doodads are not the type to drive hard -- repeatedly imo.
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Glashub (11-20-2014)
11-20-2014, 10:48 AM
#124
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I guess we can assume Acura squeezed the shit out of the TLX to maximize margins. 
11-20-2014, 11:29 AM
#125
The Q50 is a great car and definitely superior to the 328I/IS250/old C250/A4 etc etc(opinion). Probably competes very well with the IS 350/335I etc. The problem is that Infiniti stepped away from it's incredible G Series styling and aura too much. That G Series was such a great success. Matching the 2nd place ES and C Class in the entry luxury segments year after year. It feels to me like Infiniti totally took a massive dump on that and erased it from memory.
Granted Lexus did the same thing with the old IS and their old designs. Which actually was a huge risk, considering Lexus was the #1 selling Luxury Brand from 2000-2010 by going the conservative quiet luxury route. But I think Lexus made the right decision by going less tech and more driver's mentality. Infiniti meanwhile seem to have gone with more tech and less driver's mentality.
11-20-2014, 12:44 PM
#126
The IS is the result of this mans vision. He is the CEO and he was a race car driver.
Click here, Watch Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda drive the new NASCAR Camry - Autoblog
Click here, Watch Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda drive the new NASCAR Camry - Autoblog
Last edited by Glashub; 11-20-2014 at 12:46 PM.
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4WDrift (11-20-2014)
11-20-2014, 04:01 PM
#127
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11-20-2014, 04:09 PM
#128
The Q50 is a great car and definitely superior to the 328I/IS250/old C250/A4 etc etc(opinion). Probably competes very well with the IS 350/335I etc. The problem is that Infiniti stepped away from it's incredible G Series styling and aura too much. That G Series was such a great success. Matching the 2nd place ES and C Class in the entry luxury segments year after year. It feels to me like Infiniti totally took a massive dump on that and erased it from memory.
Granted Lexus did the same thing with the old IS and their old designs. Which actually was a huge risk, considering Lexus was the #1 selling Luxury Brand from 2000-2010 by going the conservative quiet luxury route. But I think Lexus made the right decision by going less tech and more driver's mentality. Infiniti meanwhile seem to have gone with more tech and less driver's mentality.
Granted Lexus did the same thing with the old IS and their old designs. Which actually was a huge risk, considering Lexus was the #1 selling Luxury Brand from 2000-2010 by going the conservative quiet luxury route. But I think Lexus made the right decision by going less tech and more driver's mentality. Infiniti meanwhile seem to have gone with more tech and less driver's mentality.
11-20-2014, 04:26 PM
#129
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
doesn't consider brakes part of safety.. 
two pot 12 inch vaned rotors on the front and single pot 12 inch single rotors on the back are plenty for most drivers. If they were to get into more than a few emergency stop situations in a single commute, they might want to consider taking the bus.. for the sake of themselves and others. Wilwood does have a BBK for the TLX for those who desire more. I think 6 pot fronts and 4 pot rears with 14 inch vaned rotors. No bullshit brakes for those that want to take their TLX to the local road race event.
two pot 12 inch vaned rotors on the front and single pot 12 inch single rotors on the back are plenty for most drivers. If they were to get into more than a few emergency stop situations in a single commute, they might want to consider taking the bus.. for the sake of themselves and others. Wilwood does have a BBK for the TLX for those who desire more. I think 6 pot fronts and 4 pot rears with 14 inch vaned rotors. No bullshit brakes for those that want to take their TLX to the local road race event.
11-20-2014, 04:44 PM
#130
Cynical of you to continue down this path. The TLX brakes are not bad brakes -- they fade after several hard uses on a track. You're being unfair. You found one "weakness" in the car and you keep hitting on it but the "weakness" isn't really a weakness in real life only in the rarified air you pretend to exist in. BMW is the most cynical manufacturer in the world imo -- hence the short life span of their cars overall.
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dysonlu (11-21-2014)
11-20-2014, 04:49 PM
#131
doesn't consider brakes part of safety..
two pot 12 inch vaned rotors on the front and single pot 12 inch single rotors on the back are plenty for most drivers. If they were to get into more than a few emergency stop situations in a single commute, they might want to consider taking the bus.. for the sake of themselves and others. Wilwood does have a BBK for the TLX for those who desire more. I think 6 pot fronts and 4 pot rears with 14 inch vaned rotors. No bullshit brakes for those that want to take their TLX to the local road race event.
two pot 12 inch vaned rotors on the front and single pot 12 inch single rotors on the back are plenty for most drivers. If they were to get into more than a few emergency stop situations in a single commute, they might want to consider taking the bus.. for the sake of themselves and others. Wilwood does have a BBK for the TLX for those who desire more. I think 6 pot fronts and 4 pot rears with 14 inch vaned rotors. No bullshit brakes for those that want to take their TLX to the local road race event.
you are so full of the majofockin' shit -- acura didn't make this car for people who might want to take it to a track any more than then toyota made the camry to go to a track. you're reaching with "a few emergency stop situations in a single commute" lol
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Stew4HD (11-20-2014)
11-20-2014, 05:08 PM
#132
Suzuka Master
Well put. These pot stirrers always need more ammo. They were shot down over the 0-60 so they turn to "severe understeer" and "fading brakes" to direct their silliness at.
11-20-2014, 05:35 PM
#133
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
comprehension > you
11-20-2014, 06:14 PM
#134
Senior Moderator
Cynical of you to continue down this path. The TLX brakes are not bad brakes -- they fade after several hard uses on a track. You're being unfair. You found one "weakness" in the car and you keep hitting on it but the "weakness" isn't really a weakness in real life only in the rarified air you pretend to exist in. BMW is the most cynical manufacturer in the world imo -- hence the short life span of their cars overall.
Even he knows that the TLX will never have issues with fade on the street, and that it only occurred after hard driving on the track. He is trying to equate that with unsafe stopping distances, but any rational person can see right through that.
Hondas and Acuras are not out there crashing into everyone because they can't stop. They aren't getting dinged with a black mark by CR, or anyone else for unsafe braking, and he has obviously never experienced poor braking in a TLX because he has never even driven one.
P.S. Has anyone else noticed how the first argument was that Acura is less reliable, then when that failed, it moved on to engine performance, but now that more reliable numbers came out showing that the car is in line with the competition, it has now moved on to this. This has been the weakest, and most transparent argument by far, so I'm wondering what's next.
11-20-2014, 06:21 PM
#135
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Calling Dr. Jekyll
11-20-2014, 08:17 PM
#136
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Cynical of you to continue down this path. The TLX brakes are not bad brakes -- they fade after several hard uses on a track. You're being unfair. You found one "weakness" in the car and you keep hitting on it but the "weakness" isn't really a weakness in real life only in the rarified air you pretend to exist in. BMW is the most cynical manufacturer in the world imo -- hence the short life span of their cars overall.
The 2004 TL was best in class in stopping. The 2010 TL lost 12 feet to the '04. They were 70-0 tests so there as of now no direct C&D link to the TLX.
As for fade Edmunds got it in the first hard braking application in their panic test cycle, again not track related but a DD issue.
I don't think anyone expects the TLX to be a performance car but a basic auto, to paraphrase Bull Durham, needs to do three things - run, steer & stop. Two out of three ain't OK
BTW I am not picking on the brakes, every test published so far has made mention of them. Please feel as free as you want in rationalizing.
11-20-2014, 08:35 PM
#137
Suzuka Master
^ Every published test?? BS! I have read plenty and only a few mention that the brakes could be better. Not "every publication" has made mention of them, maybe just the ones you have read (or just the ones that meet your agenda?)
It's okay, keep at it, you are amusing in your perseverance to discredit the car. You are becoming little more than a troll here with this attack phase you are in.
Carry on.
It's okay, keep at it, you are amusing in your perseverance to discredit the car. You are becoming little more than a troll here with this attack phase you are in.
Carry on.
11-20-2014, 08:46 PM
#138
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^ Every published test?? BS! I have read plenty and only a few mention that the brakes could be better. Not "every publication" has made mention of them, maybe just the ones you have read (or just the ones that meet your agenda?)
It's okay, keep at it, you are amusing in your perseverance to discredit the car. You are becoming little more than a troll here with this attack phase you are in.
Carry on.
It's okay, keep at it, you are amusing in your perseverance to discredit the car. You are becoming little more than a troll here with this attack phase you are in.
Carry on.
Our four-cylinder tester showed signs of brake fade after the first stop, and its 60-0-mph distances were longer than average. The V6 model showed less fade, but its distances were also long for the class.
Car & Driver:
is only so-so by the standards of this class, and braking performance—182 feet from 70 mph, with slight fade—is disappointing. NOTE the 2004 did this in 160ft.
Motor Trend
The TLX needed 124 feet to stop from 60 mph, 2 feet better than the lighter TSX and a foot better than the front-drive TL. The TL SH-AWD would do it in as little as 103 feet with the manual, 117 feet with the automatic.
This is piling on because its related to performance driving but it does round out the major publication that Hyde said I should pay attention to
Road & Track:
The same V6 that animates the Accord so well feels overmatched here. Which is fine, because the brakes could also use an upgrade. The 2008-era TL Type-S offered Brembo six-pot calipers and they'd be a welcome addition here because the standard sliding-caliper offerings just don't cut the mustard.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-20-2014 at 08:56 PM.
11-20-2014, 09:34 PM
#139
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
It's funny how you guys think Bear is a troll. He's far from it. You guys trying to make him out to be one is pathetic.
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cp3117 (11-21-2014)
11-20-2014, 09:43 PM
#140
Senior Moderator
Car & Driver:
is only so-so by the standards of this class, and braking performance—182 feet from 70 mph, with slight fade—is disappointing,.................This is piling on because its related to performance driving but it does round out the major publication that Hyde said I should pay attention to.
Since you are paying attention, I guess you saw that C&D tested an F30 328i with the automatic and recorded 191 feet from 70 mph!
If the TLX was "unsafe", and "disappointing", where does that leave the performance driven ultimate driving machine? Well I'm sure you'll "feel free as you want in rationalizing." I guess us TLX owners are going to have to keep a close eye on our rear views for 328s following too closely. Stay safe guys.
Majofo, if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck......... He's shown nothing but his feathers on this forum.
Last edited by Mr Hyde; 11-20-2014 at 09:49 PM.
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dysonlu (11-21-2014)
11-20-2014, 09:47 PM
#141
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Superior tires have nothing to do with fade. If a tire gets worse the warmer they get, you might be rolling on butter.
Even if the competitors were on superior rubber, should the customer be required to spend an extra grand to come up to par?
Even if the competitors were on superior rubber, should the customer be required to spend an extra grand to come up to par?
11-20-2014, 09:59 PM
#142
Senior Moderator
Fade is a non issue on normal roads. If you encounter it, you should probably surrender your license for poor driving, or lose it for being reckless
Last edited by Mr Hyde; 11-20-2014 at 10:31 PM.
11-21-2014, 04:52 AM
#143
Suzuka Master
Edmunds:
Our four-cylinder tester showed signs of brake fade after the first stop, and its 60-0-mph distances were longer than average. The V6 model showed less fade, but its distances were also long for the class.
Car & Driver:
is only so-so by the standards of this class, and braking performance—182 feet from 70 mph, with slight fade—is disappointing. NOTE the 2004 did this in 160ft.
Motor Trend
The TLX needed 124 feet to stop from 60 mph, 2 feet better than the lighter TSX and a foot better than the front-drive TL. The TL SH-AWD would do it in as little as 103 feet with the manual, 117 feet with the automatic.
This is piling on because its related to performance driving but it does round out the major publication that Hyde said I should pay attention to
Road & Track:
The same V6 that animates the Accord so well feels overmatched here. Which is fine, because the brakes could also use an upgrade. The 2008-era TL Type-S offered Brembo six-pot calipers and they'd be a welcome addition here because the standard sliding-caliper offerings just don't cut the mustard.
Our four-cylinder tester showed signs of brake fade after the first stop, and its 60-0-mph distances were longer than average. The V6 model showed less fade, but its distances were also long for the class.
Car & Driver:
is only so-so by the standards of this class, and braking performance—182 feet from 70 mph, with slight fade—is disappointing. NOTE the 2004 did this in 160ft.
Motor Trend
The TLX needed 124 feet to stop from 60 mph, 2 feet better than the lighter TSX and a foot better than the front-drive TL. The TL SH-AWD would do it in as little as 103 feet with the manual, 117 feet with the automatic.
This is piling on because its related to performance driving but it does round out the major publication that Hyde said I should pay attention to
Road & Track:
The same V6 that animates the Accord so well feels overmatched here. Which is fine, because the brakes could also use an upgrade. The 2008-era TL Type-S offered Brembo six-pot calipers and they'd be a welcome addition here because the standard sliding-caliper offerings just don't cut the mustard.
You took this to say the car is unsafe! You said it. A couple of the reviewers you quoted mentioned the stopping distance "could be better" and one said there was a "slight fade" of the brakes. OMG! RECALL, RECALL!
Okay, back to your trolling to try and make someone, anyone listen to you and not buy a TLX. I've asked before and will ask again, why have you made a mission of this? Is this your Mighty Mouse impersonation .."Here he comes to save the day!"?
*shrug* This is like the old game of "whack a troll"
11-21-2014, 09:23 AM
#144
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Where did Bear mention recall?
11-21-2014, 09:25 AM
#145
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Hyde, I said the same sentiments earlier. The TL tires are skinny A/S, not meant for performance. They're not shitty, just not great.
11-21-2014, 09:53 AM
#146
Instructor
I'd say not average either, with 20 mil. mi. feedback the GY LS2 rating barely in the 2nd fifth of a 10 point scale on dry traction and steering, 2nd lowest fifth on snow/ice, and middle fifth everything else.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey....jsp?type=GTAS
The BS RE97AS isn't great either, no survey results but TR testing,
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...r.jsp?ttid=171
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey....jsp?type=GTAS
The BS RE97AS isn't great either, no survey results but TR testing,
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...r.jsp?ttid=171
11-21-2014, 09:58 AM
#147
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Damn.. those tires are shitty.. I take it back, recall. 
11-21-2014, 10:10 AM
#148
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IMHO Hyde & Stew should open a comedy act in LA. Very interesting watching them throw a multiday hissy fit over me trying to destroy the 5G.
I have said nothing on a, if the truth be told, very limited car forum that was not presented in many hundreds of thousands of both printed & digital copies of the 4 auto magazines I listed. It has to be a very very rare occurrence when all 4 pick the same item to call into question but if the car is at the tail end of the "competition" in stopping capability its would seem to be fair game.
Maybe letters to the editors of Car & Driver, Road & Track, Motor Trend & Edmunds complaining about even mentioning the braking issues might have more effect & get a retraction NOT.
BTW Stew which recall did my beloved brand have that you are referring to? The only one I was involved with in the past 14 years was a battery cable replacement on my 2011 335is. Not to say I did not miss any but its all I remember.
Think my TL had 3 or 4 recalls + a TSB to rebuild the 6MT.
I have said nothing on a, if the truth be told, very limited car forum that was not presented in many hundreds of thousands of both printed & digital copies of the 4 auto magazines I listed. It has to be a very very rare occurrence when all 4 pick the same item to call into question but if the car is at the tail end of the "competition" in stopping capability its would seem to be fair game.
Maybe letters to the editors of Car & Driver, Road & Track, Motor Trend & Edmunds complaining about even mentioning the braking issues might have more effect & get a retraction NOT.
BTW Stew which recall did my beloved brand have that you are referring to? The only one I was involved with in the past 14 years was a battery cable replacement on my 2011 335is. Not to say I did not miss any but its all I remember.
Think my TL had 3 or 4 recalls + a TSB to rebuild the 6MT.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-21-2014 at 10:23 AM.
11-21-2014, 10:28 AM
#149
Suzuka Master
IMHO Hyde & Stew should open a comedy act in LA. Very interesting watching them throw a multiday hissy fit over me trying to destroy the 5G.
I have said nothing on a, if the truth be told, very limited car forum that was not presented in many hundreds of thousands of both printed & digital copies of the 4 auto magazines I listed. It has to be a very very rare occurrence when all 4 pick the same item to call into question but if the car is at the tail end of the "competition" in stopping capability its would seem to be fair game.
Maybe letters to the editors of Car & Driver, Road & Track, Motor Trend & Edmunds complaining about even mentioning the braking issues might have more effect & get a retraction NOT.
I have said nothing on a, if the truth be told, very limited car forum that was not presented in many hundreds of thousands of both printed & digital copies of the 4 auto magazines I listed. It has to be a very very rare occurrence when all 4 pick the same item to call into question but if the car is at the tail end of the "competition" in stopping capability its would seem to be fair game.
Maybe letters to the editors of Car & Driver, Road & Track, Motor Trend & Edmunds complaining about even mentioning the braking issues might have more effect & get a retraction NOT.
Your only hope to fulfill your mission is that you can find a reviewer that says "RUN FROM THE TLX, IT'S A SAFETY HAZZARD!" Until then.. keep up the good fight.
Oh and http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/16/autos/bmw-recall/
Last edited by Stew4HD; 11-21-2014 at 10:32 AM.
11-21-2014, 10:45 AM
#150
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
1.6M.. that's cute. How about >5M for Honda. 
11-21-2014, 11:01 AM
#151
Pro
I don't really know what a F30 328i automatic has to do with Bear...
I can pull a link for a F30 328i manual consistently doing sub 170ft... http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ine-manual.pdf for a F30 328i manual consistently doing sub-170 ft
or that same car when it was 35k miles newer doing high 170s... http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...test-intro.pdf
or a 2014 wagon automatic xdrive wagon averaging in the mid 160s on all season run flats...
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...28i-xdrive.pdf
or a 2014 328 diesel (automatic) averaging in the high 160s/low 170s.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...w328dsedan.pdf
here's bear's 435i laying down in 170...
2014 Audi S5 vs. 2014 BMW 435i Comparison Tests - Page 4 - Car and Driver
here's bear's 135is going as low as 158...
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-bmw-135is.pdf
here's the 4 cyl tlx hovering between 175 and 185 (also, note the "trans too hot" message they got)
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ra-tlx-24l.pdf
here's the v6 tlx only ranging in the 180s...
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...lx-35l-fwd.pdf
the accord v6 did a better job...
2013 Honda Accord Sedan V-6 Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
Oh, and for fun, here's the limited slip diff having, brembo brake stopping, summer tire wearing 2007 Acura TL Type-S doing 70-0 in 163 ft and 0.93g on the skidpad. You know, because some of us aren't trolls.. we just tell "back in my day" stories about how Acura used to offer cost-effective BMW alternatives that gave up little in performance, saved you a ton of coin, and didn't hide between "but acura doesn't have summer tires, but the acura is so much more cost effective, but the acura is more reliable"... no, acura used to give you everything.
The Quickest Sedans of 2008: $30,000 to $40,000 - Car Comparison - Feature Article - Page 5
I can pull a link for a F30 328i manual consistently doing sub 170ft... http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ine-manual.pdf for a F30 328i manual consistently doing sub-170 ft
or that same car when it was 35k miles newer doing high 170s... http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...test-intro.pdf
or a 2014 wagon automatic xdrive wagon averaging in the mid 160s on all season run flats...
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...28i-xdrive.pdf
or a 2014 328 diesel (automatic) averaging in the high 160s/low 170s.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...w328dsedan.pdf
here's bear's 435i laying down in 170...
2014 Audi S5 vs. 2014 BMW 435i Comparison Tests - Page 4 - Car and Driver
here's bear's 135is going as low as 158...
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-bmw-135is.pdf
here's the 4 cyl tlx hovering between 175 and 185 (also, note the "trans too hot" message they got)
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ra-tlx-24l.pdf
here's the v6 tlx only ranging in the 180s...
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...lx-35l-fwd.pdf
the accord v6 did a better job...
2013 Honda Accord Sedan V-6 Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
Oh, and for fun, here's the limited slip diff having, brembo brake stopping, summer tire wearing 2007 Acura TL Type-S doing 70-0 in 163 ft and 0.93g on the skidpad. You know, because some of us aren't trolls.. we just tell "back in my day" stories about how Acura used to offer cost-effective BMW alternatives that gave up little in performance, saved you a ton of coin, and didn't hide between "but acura doesn't have summer tires, but the acura is so much more cost effective, but the acura is more reliable"... no, acura used to give you everything.
The Quickest Sedans of 2008: $30,000 to $40,000 - Car Comparison - Feature Article - Page 5
11-21-2014, 11:02 AM
#152
11-21-2014, 11:21 AM
#153
Oh, and for fun, here's the limited slip diff having, brembo brake stopping, summer tire wearing 2007 Acura TL Type-S doing 70-0 in 163 ft and 0.93g on the skidpad. You know, because some of us aren't trolls.. we just tell "back in my day" stories about how Acura used to offer cost-effective BMW alternatives that gave up little in performance, saved you a ton of coin, and didn't hide between "but acura doesn't have summer tires, but the acura is so much more cost effective, but the acura is more reliable"... no, acura used to give you everything.
The Quickest Sedans of 2008: $30,000 to $40,000 - Car Comparison - Feature Article - Page 5
The Quickest Sedans of 2008: $30,000 to $40,000 - Car Comparison - Feature Article - Page 5
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Stew4HD (11-21-2014)
11-21-2014, 11:32 AM
#154
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
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BEAR-AvHistory (11-21-2014)
11-21-2014, 12:10 PM
#155
Pro
Back in those days, you guys have been spoiled. Move on. Different times, different reality. People are now talking about self-driving cars for crying out loud. SUV and CUV are selling more than sedans. It's been beating to death those "back in my day" stories. We all know the stories. If you want a performance Acura, get the next NSX when it comes out. It should have good brakes and tires, and likely more performance than you can handle.
that's not really all that true...It's true for Acura yes, but not on the whole.
Looking at July 2014 YTD numbers...
Omitting Ram, Land Rover, Jaguar, Maserati, Bentley, Jaguar because they don't sell SUVs AND cars ...
July 2014 YTD Sales Leaders by Make:
Acura: MDX (followed by RDX)
Audi: Q5 (followed by A4)
BMW: 3/4 series (followed by 5 series)
Buick: Enclave (followed by LaCrosse)
Cadillac: SRX (folllowed by CTS)
Chevrolet: Silverado (followed by Cruze)
Chrysler: Town and Country (followed by 200)
Dodge: Grand Caravan (followed by Charger)
Ford : F-Series (followed by Fusion)
Honda: Accord (followed by Civic)
Hyundai: Elantra (followed by Sonata)
Infiniti: Q50 (followed by QX60)
Kia: Optima (followed by Soul)
Lexus: RX (followed by ES)
Lincoln: MKZ (followed by MKX)
Mazda: 3 (followed by CX-5)
Mercedes: E Class (followed by C class)
Mini: Cooper (followed by Countryman)
Mitsubishi: Outlander Sport (followed by Lancer)
Nissan: Altima (followed by Rogue)
Porsche: Cayenne (followed by 911, and it's a lot closer than you'd guess: 10,259 vs 6017)
Subaru: Forester (followed by Impreza)
Toyota: Camry (followed by Corolla)
Volkswagen: Jetta (followed by Passat
Volvo: S60 (followed by XC60)
So, as you can see, only a few car companies are led by SUV sales. The Audi Q5/A4 gap is tiny (23,117 vs 22,492). Lexus has always been led by the RX. I'm a bit surprised by how poorly the Cadillac ATS and CTS are selling considering how well the previous gen CTS did.. If Acura can move 5000-6000 TLXs a month, it may recapture the title from the MDX.
For the two most popular mainstream imports (Honda & Toyota) and the two most popular luxury imports (BMW & Mercedes), SUVs are nowhere near the front of their packs.
On the topic of the NSX, i'll believe it when I see it. The C7 Z06 probably has my attention the most at the moment. Although I'm still a fan of the GTR. I'm not sure I even want to know what Acura intends to do for the NSX price, but i'm sure it will be too rich for my blood!
11-21-2014, 12:45 PM
#156
I think the whole idea behind the safety tech is to ensure one is never in a position where one needs to slam on brakes. I never had to slam on brakes with my Genesis because the tech started slowing the car when it sensed an object and well before approaching object. My IS has no tech so it needs great brakes. The whole attacking Acura for middling brakes is petty and boring. Introduce me to the car that is perfect in all areas and I assure you I can nitpick it.
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Stew4HD (11-21-2014)
11-21-2014, 12:53 PM
#157
Not that I expect anyone to reads this because the thread has become a pissing contest but here we go -- there are a lot of really smart people figuring out price points and margins at car manufacturers. They know the segment they want to target, they know the price tolerance of that segment, they even know the value of their brand and how that affects pricing. They know to a nano penny what it costs to add a screw and how that affects margins. BMW has about the 11th most valuable brand, Lexus about 87th, Acuras not on the list. Every manufacturer cuts corners to meet price points and make money. My Lexus Fsport has great brakes. That's what I would expect in an Fsport. But it cuts corners elsewhere. Acura is offering 1st gen doodads because that's what that demo expects. They cut costs by offering more basic brakes. Why? People who want a whole bunch of safety doodads are not the type to drive hard -- repeatedly imo.
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Glashub (11-21-2014)
11-21-2014, 01:17 PM
#158
that's not really all that true...It's true for Acura yes, but not on the whole.
Looking at July 2014 YTD numbers...
Omitting Ram, Land Rover, Jaguar, Maserati, Bentley, Jaguar because they don't sell SUVs AND cars ...
July 2014 YTD Sales Leaders by Make:
Acura: MDX (followed by RDX)
Audi: Q5 (followed by A4)
BMW: 3/4 series (followed by 5 series)
Buick: Enclave (followed by LaCrosse)
Cadillac: SRX (folllowed by CTS)
Chevrolet: Silverado (followed by Cruze)
Chrysler: Town and Country (followed by 200)
Dodge: Grand Caravan (followed by Charger)
Ford : F-Series (followed by Fusion)
Honda: Accord (followed by Civic)
Hyundai: Elantra (followed by Sonata)
Infiniti: Q50 (followed by QX60)
Kia: Optima (followed by Soul)
Lexus: RX (followed by ES)
Lincoln: MKZ (followed by MKX)
Mazda: 3 (followed by CX-5)
Mercedes: E Class (followed by C class)
Mini: Cooper (followed by Countryman)
Mitsubishi: Outlander Sport (followed by Lancer)
Nissan: Altima (followed by Rogue)
Porsche: Cayenne (followed by 911, and it's a lot closer than you'd guess: 10,259 vs 6017)
Subaru: Forester (followed by Impreza)
Toyota: Camry (followed by Corolla)
Volkswagen: Jetta (followed by Passat
Volvo: S60 (followed by XC60)
So, as you can see, only a few car companies are led by SUV sales. The Audi Q5/A4 gap is tiny (23,117 vs 22,492). Lexus has always been led by the RX. I'm a bit surprised by how poorly the Cadillac ATS and CTS are selling considering how well the previous gen CTS did.. If Acura can move 5000-6000 TLXs a month, it may recapture the title from the MDX.
For the two most popular mainstream imports (Honda & Toyota) and the two most popular luxury imports (BMW & Mercedes), SUVs are nowhere near the front of their packs.
On the topic of the NSX, i'll believe it when I see it. The C7 Z06 probably has my attention the most at the moment. Although I'm still a fan of the GTR. I'm not sure I even want to know what Acura intends to do for the NSX price, but i'm sure it will be too rich for my blood!
Looking at July 2014 YTD numbers...
Omitting Ram, Land Rover, Jaguar, Maserati, Bentley, Jaguar because they don't sell SUVs AND cars ...
July 2014 YTD Sales Leaders by Make:
Acura: MDX (followed by RDX)
Audi: Q5 (followed by A4)
BMW: 3/4 series (followed by 5 series)
Buick: Enclave (followed by LaCrosse)
Cadillac: SRX (folllowed by CTS)
Chevrolet: Silverado (followed by Cruze)
Chrysler: Town and Country (followed by 200)
Dodge: Grand Caravan (followed by Charger)
Ford : F-Series (followed by Fusion)
Honda: Accord (followed by Civic)
Hyundai: Elantra (followed by Sonata)
Infiniti: Q50 (followed by QX60)
Kia: Optima (followed by Soul)
Lexus: RX (followed by ES)
Lincoln: MKZ (followed by MKX)
Mazda: 3 (followed by CX-5)
Mercedes: E Class (followed by C class)
Mini: Cooper (followed by Countryman)
Mitsubishi: Outlander Sport (followed by Lancer)
Nissan: Altima (followed by Rogue)
Porsche: Cayenne (followed by 911, and it's a lot closer than you'd guess: 10,259 vs 6017)
Subaru: Forester (followed by Impreza)
Toyota: Camry (followed by Corolla)
Volkswagen: Jetta (followed by Passat
Volvo: S60 (followed by XC60)
So, as you can see, only a few car companies are led by SUV sales. The Audi Q5/A4 gap is tiny (23,117 vs 22,492). Lexus has always been led by the RX. I'm a bit surprised by how poorly the Cadillac ATS and CTS are selling considering how well the previous gen CTS did.. If Acura can move 5000-6000 TLXs a month, it may recapture the title from the MDX.
For the two most popular mainstream imports (Honda & Toyota) and the two most popular luxury imports (BMW & Mercedes), SUVs are nowhere near the front of their packs.
On the topic of the NSX, i'll believe it when I see it. The C7 Z06 probably has my attention the most at the moment. Although I'm still a fan of the GTR. I'm not sure I even want to know what Acura intends to do for the NSX price, but i'm sure it will be too rich for my blood!
You are understating the importance of SUVS'. BMW and Mercedes are going so hard at their SUV/CUV segments because it's so popular.
ATS was never going to sell because Cadillac went insane and actually had the gall to think it could go head to head against Lexus and the Germans in pricing. Nobody is going to pick a 43,000 dollar ATS over a F Sport or a c250.
People can talk about how successful the CTS is but that's just a fad. Cadillac's dreams of overtaking the foreign powers is just that. Americans are not patriotic enough to give the finger to a Lexus or Mercedes.
Cadillac sales are already down this year and I fully expect Cadillac to finish 6th in 2015.
2014 finish will probably be
Mercedes
BMW
Lexus(unless Lexus make a massive comeback with their RC/NX)
Audi
Cadillac
Acura
2015 will probably be
Lexus
Mercedes
BMW
Acura
Audi
Cadillac
11-21-2014, 01:56 PM
#159
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Nobody is going to pick a 43,000 dollar ATS over a F Sport or a c250.
People can talk about how successful the CTS is but that's just a fad. Cadillac's dreams of overtaking the foreign powers is just that. Americans are not patriotic enough to give the finger to a Lexus or Mercedes.
People can talk about how successful the CTS is but that's just a fad. Cadillac's dreams of overtaking the foreign powers is just that. Americans are not patriotic enough to give the finger to a Lexus or Mercedes.
11-21-2014, 02:04 PM
#160
Too many of you are basing opinions on non facts.
What is an opinion?
Cadillac is a better Brand than Lexus/BMW/MB.
Opinion.
What is a fact:
Lexus/MB/BMW have outsold Cadillac for 10 straight years and for the vast majority of the last two decades.
Opinions can be debated against by using various strawmans and counter sequences.
Facts can not.
1+1=2..........
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dysonlu (11-21-2014)