draph

OK, if I *had* to replace my 4G 6MT, why on earth would/should I be willing to pay $45K plus for a 290hp 9AT TLX SH-AWD Advance?

I still believe Honda/Acura has very reliable, well-engineered cars that will continue to hold their resale value; BUT, they can only sustain their business on reliability and resale for so long, especially when I can walk down to FCA (still known in most parts as Dodge/Chrysler), and buy a 2015 AWD Chrysler 200C with the same licensed ZF 9AT, 5 more hp (5 less peak torque, though), *real* wood trim, more interior and trunk space, and weighs 100 lbs less; and offers all the same tech goodies (maybe more - heated steering wheel - albeit with a less sophisticated AWD system) plus a panoramic sunroof and 19 inch wheels for $10K less, I'd have to at least test drive it before I compromised my MT for an AT equipped Honda/Acura. Even if there might be less refinement in quality of leather, and/or the Pentastar V6 is less silky than a Honda mill, it would be very difficult to decide where to draw the perfect line between value and luxury.

Yeah, I know the reviewers tend to imply the 200 is relatively boring (and I may agree if they are looking at the low rent 4-banger model); but in 23 years of car buying/owing, I've learned the elite automotive journalists' opinions are only opinions that I find I do not share much of the time. They have biases and are influenced by marketing, group think, and peer pressure as much as anyone.

No, I'm not a Chrysler troll fan boy - I've purchased 4 new Honda/Acuras, and am more and more disappointed in their direction. It's time to either kill Acura, and bring the Acura tech into Honda rather than suboptimize Honda products to achieve differentiation from Acura, or merge with another car company (Mazda, perhaps?) to pool resources so they can develop a truly differentiated luxury division with its own architectures. I love my 4G TL SH-AWD 6MT; and I would have still bought it for the same price if it had an H on the grill and trunk lid (and it might have had a better looking grill).

4thaccord

Never mind the 200, you could buy a Chrysler 300 and still save a substantial amount of money (dealers near me on the East Coast are literally taking 9k off year end models).

The TLX is obviously a nice car. But I don't think Honda should be so proud of itself for (finally) adding tech like keyless entry and cross-traffic alert to a car, when these things have been on Fords and Hyundais for years. And I don't care if they call it PAWS, 4-wheel-steering, or whatever; the TLX doesn't handle THAT much better than it did with the good old-fashioned DWB setup. Even a Ford Fusion Titanium has a nice feel to it now. Or Mazda 6. Or yes, the Chrysler 200. After I test drove the 2 TLXs, I drove a CPO Lexus. Of course it didn't handle anywhere near as good as the Acura, but it was also cheaper, better equipped, roomier, and uses regular gas.

For me it's just NOT that kind of thrill.

Mr Hyde

A Chrysler 200? Seriously?

I'd rather get a Subaru sedan if AWD was a must over a Chrysler which will rattle itself apart in a few months..

They've come a long way compared to years ago, but they aren't there yet.

ATLPatrick

Seriously? A Chrysler 200? You are trying to compare half way decent everyday sedan, to the TLX, a luxury sport car? The TLX may be no BMW M3 or anything, but its a great car, and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as a econobox rental rattle trap Chrysler! By your "logic" why should anyone every buy the TLX? I mean a base model goes for what? $31,500? For $6,000 less than that I could go out and buy a 2015 Kia Forte, it would have sunroof, nav, HID headlights, higher power 4 cylinder, front wheel drive, premium sound, rear view camera, and 10 way power leather seats which are both heated and cooled, heated rear seats, plus a heated steering wheel. So its settled, lets all go out and get rid of our worthless little TLX's and get a Kia Forte! -_-

JM2010 SH-AWD

The Chrysler V6 is a nice motor, but have you sat in or driven a 200? It looks nice from the outside, but interior finish/comfort and driving dynamics are not close to the TLX's level. They will be rental car fodder before too long (well, maybe not the AWD versions), just as the last iteration was.

winstrolvtec

Not to say that Acura is not a luxury brand or that the TLX is not "above" most mainstream vehicles if not all but it's precisely the problem that Acura has had and may continue to have especially now with the mainstream and entry luxury gap nearly closed even when doubling down on the formula. When you are trying to be value or budget luxury many people who are already value conscious might just say let me go for even more value in getting a modern mainstream vehicle which are as close as ever to being entry luxury or skip over it altogether instead and go all in on something that reaches a bit higher for an entry vehicle.

Even when most do not actually opt for something above a TLX but around the same instead, as it is in most other cases, many do so mostly for the name or brand that might better suggest luxury even if not actually the case in every scenario of the car vs car or trim vs trim, that's simply where cache comes in and it's not as strong. They simply don't have the higher end offerings that command the respect, it may not all be a bad thing but it doesn't help in this exact regard. In the entry level especially many people won't do the in depth and technical car comparisons or take them for what they are but will do the brand comparison instead and perhaps make more of it than it is but that maybe a significant part of it as well.

Prado

OMG... A 4th gen owner doesn't like the TLX. I've never heard that one before!

Shiratori1

To be honest, I think you are just butthurt that the TL(X) doesn't have a manual anymore.

Get over it buddy......

silverTL6

iTrader: (2)

^ Even with a manual, the drop in power (on paper), lack of exhaust tips, and lack of any visual differentiation with the other models would still be a deal breaker.

Unless of course they addressed all that with a Type-S

weather

I got rid of my 2012 TL and I knew I had to get rid of it as I can't keep a car more than 3-4 years, I get too itchy! That being said, if I had a choice to lease a new TL or a TLX, I would do a new TL.

SilverJ

Even if they do come out with a type S, it will probably cost you close to 50 grand to get it with a manual, they will be so rare you would have to pay msrp. If I ever buy another Acura, it will probably be another MDX.
Their sedans dont do it for me anymore.

vbx

Lots of people are. Especially people who like to drive. Imagine going on a canyon run / mountain run, hitting up Willow Springs in a boring automatic or bltch paddle.

No fun at all.

If you think it's fun with an auto, it's 10x more fun with a manual. Real talk.

This is why 90% of the pissed off driver during traffic, are usually driving automatics. Cause it's boring. People who drive for a living like those big rigs, are driving these manual gear boxes. And they don't get mad like these automatic drivers...

Stew4HD

^ I love to drive and an auto is great! Having to shift isn't what makes the drive fun, to me. Been there, done that.. no need to repeat.

You say that people in traffic are pissed off BECAUSE they are driving automatics? ... excuse me while I LOL! That is really funny. That's for the laugh.

I have family that drive trucks (big rigs). They wish they had automatics. Running through 18 gears is no walk in the park.

9SpeedTran

Sorry dude, people who are pissed off during traffic are pissed off because (1) there's so many cars on the road and (2) so many drivers are stupid. I would have had to have both knees replaced if I had kept driving manuals in DC area rush hour traffic, which rivals the 405 in LA.

graphicguy

Chrysler 200s have already started to hit the rental lots. Rented one last week for work. Ummmm....you want a Chrysler 200 over a TLX? Have at that. There is such a huge difference between the two, I'm really at a loss for words.

As far as Automatics vs Manual Trans......I think just about every car that offers a manual trans (which ain't many), will get smoked by their automatic counterparts. Automatics shift so much quicker than any manual does. In the case of the TLX, I can't imagine anyone not liking those automatics.

My best friend just bought a new Corvette. His is a manual. It has the "skip shift" to meet EPA and CAFE standards. The trans actually locks you out of shifting 1-2 or 2-3 of you don't hit a certain RPM. This is one of the premier sports cars in the world. And, it is a huge PITA. He wished he got the automatic. Admittedly, aside from that, it's a tremendous car.

Had a couple of Mustang GTs in the past with manual trans. Frankly, aside from playing stop light wars, an automatic would do a better job in those cars, too.

jshaw

Lol, "0-60 doesn't matter."

Stew4HD

There, adjusted your post to reflect PC.

RCJD

Nuf said. Thanks Weather.

saturno_v

I do not think a lot of people realize what an incredible value for the money the 4G TL was (especially the SH-AWD)

For less than 335i money you would get a 5 Series size car which would utterly crush the standard 5 Series in the handling department.....with the 6 speed manual it could dance on the track at the same pace of an Audi S4 which was smaller and significantly pricier.

Incredibly comfortable seats, very upscale interiors, sweet sounding and revving 3.7 liter 300+ HP, sophisticated front suspension setup (Double Wishbone rather than McPherson struts)

Lots of road presence, unique styling (in my case this was a very positive attribute because I love the way the car looks)

With the TLX, Honda will definitely make more money for every unit....


Between a new TLX and an new TL SH-AWD 6MT?? Not even a context in my book.....

Ken1997TL

Buy an Accord sport with a manual and save a REAL fortune!

That car is hard to beat.

vbx

So, since you're driving an Auto, you only need 1 knee replaced?

I just switched to an auto. (g35 coupe to Q50 sedan). and I can tell you I am more anxious during traffic with a boring automatic.

Oh, and according to this, LA has the worst traffic.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articl...-Worst-Traffic

1: LA
8: WA

Colin

We're number Three!

ATLPatrick

Care to share just how an automatic isn't as good in bad traffic as a manual to you? I grew up driving stick shift and have had them most of my life, so don't get me wrong I do love driving a manual, but in heavy traffic it just becomes a major annoyance to me, nothing fun or relaxing about it unless i'm driving without any traffic, which I rarely do. Also I did look at the Q50 before purchasing my TLX, thought it was an amazing car, aside from the DAS. Would love to hear from an owner what your thoughts of the car are!

Stew4HD

I thought sure that Houston would be on the list.. Looks like being spread out like we are does help... at least on my side of town at the times I come and go to work..

During rush hours when I do get caught in it, I am damn glad I drive an AT when I am stuck in that stop and roll 5 feet, stop and roll...

9SpeedTran

All depends on how you measure it. America Back on the Road to Gridlock According to the INRIX National... -- KIRKLAND, Wash., March 8, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- DC is #4.

I guess the toll lanes on I-95 in VA have helped a bit. :-) In any event, my point stands, most people with manuals will tell you they are not fun in sluggish rush hour traffic, no matter how much fun they are on wide open roads. Maybe you just like a rod to play with? ;-)

1fstTL

iTrader: (1)

own 3 manual cars, hate driving them in traffic lol. Auto in traffic FTW

Mr Hyde

I'm actually more pissed when I am driving my stick in bumper to bumper traffic. All the shifting and wear sucks since I am not going anywhere, and its worse on another level as that car is meant to driven hard, not to coast around in 2nd gear in a sea of cars. I get no enjoyment out of that, and feel like its a complete waste. I would much rather leave it at home in those conditions, and be in an A/T.


I would have one Ken, but they need to make a V6 AWD version to seal the deal!

Absolutely.

yooin14

I am currently 4G owner.

I really love new TLX but I want it to have more power (30hp+), sportier trim and slightly sportier tuned like 3G type-s did.

draph

Thanks all for the feedback. Some of it I find remarkably similar to the feedback I got on Bimmerfest in 2010 when I said I was considering buying a TL SH-AWD to replace my leased 2007 335i since it was more than $10K less, feature for feature, and a better value.

That said, I would NOT venture to suggest the 4 cylinder bottom of the trim line 200 LX is anywhere close to comparable to a TLX 4 cylinder. However, the 200C V6 AWD with all the bells and whistles, the same ZF 9AT, the premium group that includes the higher end two-tone leather, real wood, different "bronze chrome" trim, etc., their SafetyTec package that includes a couple of extra features over the Advance package, the adaptive cruise control that will come to a complete stop and start again automatically without turning off (I don't believe Acura's does that - only "low speed follow"), and even the self-parallel park feature...and lets not forget the heated steering wheel and huge panoramic sunroof, all for more than 10K less. Another interesting feature is the 200C comes in a red color close to the Athletic Red of the TLX show car. Acura's lower depreciation rate can't make up the difference going in, and the reliability difference only becomes an issue if you plan to hold on to the car more than the first 100,000 miles. At the very least, this version of the 200C should be cross shopped with the TLX, just to give the TLX buyer peace of mind that his or her purchase is, indeed, worth the extra cash. Anyone in the market who refuses is a true Acura fan boy at best, and a "luxury segment brand snob" at worst. Take a marketing psychology class or two, and you get cynical pretty quickly how lemming-like we are as shoppers who buy-in to the belief of insanity of anyone who might actually cross shop out of the established and well-defined market segments.

For those of you who entered the great MT debate once again...sorry, it was not my intention to start that up again - us manual enthusiasts will agree to disagree about which is more fun and engaging to drive in any condition. However, from my point of view, in 2010, there were a lot nicer looking sedans out there than the TL, and arguably better or similar performing for about the same money; but were only available with an AT. I bought "the beak" because Acura not only had the guts to try something non- main stream in their design, but offer it with an MT to boot. So, I chose to reward them with my business. To me, with only an AT, the TLX is just like any other reasonably peppy sedan with V6 and AT, including the 200C. So, if I have to replace my sedan with a new sedan with AT, screw market segments. I'm looking at every sedan with rwd, awd, with at least 275 hp in their top trim levels for an unbiased assessment of relative value for the money. In reality, I'll more likely step waaaaay out of the segment and end up in something like a Golf R if it's offered with an MT.

vbx

Still laughing at the excuses: Don't get the MT cause you will need 2 knee surgeries. lol

Get the auto so you only have to pay for 1 knee surgery.

warrusty

Hey, I have that Forte in addition to my 4 cylinder TLX! The Forte is not a bad car (except for the unexplainable drop since the 2013's in front end collision tests). And to be honest, the exterior styling on the Forte impresses me more than the TLX.

ATLPatrick

Their is nothing wrong with the Forte, or the 200 for that matter, however my point was their is no comparison between the quality of either car to the TLX. I do like the look of the Forte, and the features are great as I did point out. And I do give Chrysler credit on at least making a nice looking 200 (finally!). All that being said the quality won't be up to the Acura, neither will the dealership/service experience, along with many other aspects. Not bad cars at all, just not quite as nice. I do apologize I was off on a bit of a rant, I mean no offense, heck I used to own a Cobalt SS back in 2007. And ill say that car was made like crap but was fun!!

Stew4HD

Driving in stop/roll traffic in an MT for long... you might need it!

I am still laughing that you are the only one saying the MT is superior in heavy traffic and that we AT owners are mad because we are driving a boring AT Humor is appreciated

JM2010 SH-AWD

I do love my MT, but agree that driving one in heavy traffic is not its best and highest use. Luckily, where I live, traffic is not horrible usually, and Acura's clutch effort is pretty light.

wjereb

Tell your friend to just exceed 20mph in first and it will defeat the skip shift. I do it all the time in my C7. I can't imagine ever buying a Corvette with an automatic. It's a crime.

NwTSXmt

BEAR-AvHistory

2015 Z06 has an 8speed AT & the Pro-racing versions for years have 7DCT's even though they are not available at the dealer for street cars.

Sticks are fun but if you want to be seriously quick its AT.

winstrolvtec

I would suggest that many vettes are seriously quick to begin with. How much more seriously quick do you think you will be opting for the ZF 8 over the 7MT?

FWIW, as one example, the current 328i is faster in it's manual form than the auto according to C&D, unfortunately the argument that a stick is simply more fun for those still interested in it and that's about it, might not be entirely as accurate as many had hoped for.

BEAR-AvHistory

Z06 is their civilian track day car. It has never been offered with an AT before so it will be interesting to see the results. That said Chevy is touting the Z06 8AT as faster shifting that the Porsche PDK.

BMW lists the 328MT 1/10 quicker to 60 than the AT. In the 335 series they say the AT is 3/10 quicker to 60 than the MT. M4 its the AT by 2/10.

Since the pros up to & including Formula 1 go with non-MT's. A few outliers like the lower powered 328 don't really upset the trend toward the AT being the trans of choice for performance cars.

winstrolvtec

Would like to see it, the PDK is DCT in origin as opposed to AT and they make some serious strides with an automated transmission where with many of the rest it's still very close especially when you look at top end and higher speed acceleration, still a viable option IMO but will easily concede that will change unless many adopt 7MT's which is unlikely at this point.

However, as long as mpg is the standard than the modern AT and DCT will take it but then that's not all about performance.