Whoa, stop wasting your time. The dude has to be a troll or ultra fan boy to think a 2 liter turbo in an acura factory stock is breaking in to the 12s. Can Acura make a fast car? You bet. Why should they? What's to be gained?

The MDX and RDX are the sales kings. If they did make a legitimate 3 series competitor how many sales do you really think it would gain? Honda and Toyota figured out a long time ago the profit is in reliability. Enthusiasts are a dying breed. Cars are ever increasing in price and whether you agree or not the population wants A to B people haulers. The Japanese are late to the game and most likely realized the Germans have performance locked up so why bother? The SUV game is where it's at and they're winning that front, why waste money on engineering a sedan no one will buy? How many Chevy SS' have u seen...

 

Was curious how far onto fantasy land he would go.

Agree over all SUV's are doing well & are profitable vehicles for some manufactures. Acura sold about 110,000 last year. That said the US companies own that market. FORD sold about 650,000 of them. It might be a low priced brand name but a lot of its SUV's are big ticket items.

To replace my Expedition EL at current market prices for a 2016 would look like $65,000 MSRP.

Chevy SS did not sell well, right car, wrong engine. But look at the power going into the Caddy "V" series. The Dodge Hellcat 700 HP was sold out before the first one was delivered. Stock Mustang GT 435 HP & Camaro SS 455 HP under $40K. There are very few brands not offering something in the 400+HP range.

There is a lot of performance buyers money out there but it goes back to pedigree & history as to which companies can make money selling it.

Toyota can sell 464 HP "F"coupes as a Lexus but it would be hard as a Toyota brand car. They walked away from that market when the Supra died.

Be interesting if the FT-1 prototype ever becomes real & if its sold here as a Toyota or a Lexus. Toyota & BMW (Z-4 replacement?) have a deal for joint development so it will be fun to see what it turns out to be.

Bottom line is the world is running full bore to powerful fast cars & two production cycles out 400HP will be meh

 

012TL-GLM...I agree with your post. Japanese will likely never surpass the Germans at developing a powerful/handling mean machine but luckily for us, they still try to do do and up their games while maintaining a very reliable product.

Lexus seems to have not waivered too far from their reliability but unfortunately for Acura, partnering with ZF has been a bad decision judging by their issues with the 9 speed unit. They had no choice to come out with something more than just a 6 speed on their TLX as they would have never heard the end of it. By wanting to focus on their 8 speed DCT which couldn't be mated to their V6, they had to go and get a partnership with an already developed unit because trying to get two in-house tranny wouldn't have been possible in the short amount of time.

We can blame their "slow to react to the market" approach or the problems with the 2008-2009 crash for not having the capital to start developing two new tranny, who knows, but we know they'll be coming out with a new unit (developed by Honda) soon and hopefully, they can put this ZF fiasco to rest....

Hopefully, what will see this week at the Detroit auto show will set teh stage for that turn around we all hope Acura can take, and start delivering a fun, well packaged and reliable car, and hopefully, with decent wheel! They have been missing the mark on so many of their Honda/Acura products as of late.....

But Acura needs to regain their reliability....They can't afford to have these quality control and poor handling of these issues. Partnership with SACHS (noisy and horrible rear dampers), ZF (poor tranny)....see a theme here?!

My wallet is burning for a new car Acura....if you guys read these forum, WAKE THE F... UP!

 

Think the big mistake was not them going with ZF for an interim box, it was not taking the off the shelf ZF8.

They will put that behind them. As above its pedigree & history. Honda/Acura's is price, value & reliability. They should recover quickly. GM is back at #2 despite the ignition key debacle. People tend to either forgive or forget transgressions when it comes to their life long favorites.

 

You have no understanding. I posted this picture couple of weeks back and no one understood it. there is another picture into alley.
this is backyard of gas station. I ask the sales guy why these new cars are so far away. he said due to improving economy every one is returning lease returns so they have to make space for used cars in front of main dealership try to sell them at bargain basement prices so there is space for newer cars. newer cars does not need to be in front. (his own optimistic view of looking at things not understanding the finance behind such transactions)
they want to put the used cars in front. i will post that picture soon as i live next BMW dealership. Acura cannot become such failed business.

 

Look at this NX vs Q5 comparision test. where Q5 diesel won. but when you look at the bottom comment section. there is not even a single negative comment against Lexus. they are blaming the Magazine for bias. (probably EU advertizing money)
People in EU are now waking up to Germanic crap.

Lexus NX vs Audi Q5 | Auto Express

 

^^ That is my biggest peeve about reading car magazine these days, we don't get a non biased view anymore. I would rather spend time on car forum and reading problems and praises from real car owners, and also doing my own testing, then reading comparo.

Sure, they are fun to watch at time (youtube) but despite the odd few fanboys here and there, overall, car forums are the best place to find real information by real people....Not high school educated car reviewers that are more excited to get a jacket from the company they endorse!

 

You have NO idea how car dealerships function. You think a bunch of sitting new cars is bad for business? You think Honda doesn't do the same? Around here, EVERY major dealership, including Honda and Acura, have massive empty fields, sometimes several blocks away from the dealership, where they store their new cars. And I'm talking about 150+ cars for Honda, and maybe 800+ cars for brands like Ford. But Ford sells WAY more cars than Honda ever does, hence why they have so many available at any given time.

This isn't by mistake. You are talking about stuff you have no idea about. My friend who now owns his own Mitsu dealership, was the General Manager of a Ford, Honda and Hyundai dealership and has won awards for the improvements he's implemented at those dealerships, said they ALL do this, so shut the hell up already. At the Honda dealership he was running, he even had USED Lexus' he bought from auction sitting INSIDE the dealership, with curbed wheels and worn interiors, right on the sales floor. And they sold. And he didn't even bat an eye at not having a Honda in that place.

 

The guys that run dealerships, such as the owners and general managers, are generally some of the smartest, most business savvy guys you can come across. You don't get to the top of running a dealership, which has millions of dollars coming through it every year, by being a dipshit dummy.

These guys know way more than you do about moving cars, SSFTSX. They live, eat, shit and breathe selling cars, day in, day out, and you bet your ass their bottom line is super important as it dictates their bonuses.

I can't believe what an utter dummy you are.

 

I didnot said new cars sitting is bad for business. i said they run out of there own dealer space due to lease returns of used cars and slow turnover of used BMWs. remember they have big fleet of loaners also to sell. so all new cars are distributed to various open spaces like gas stations, empty space near to shopping mall, road side narrow alleys etc. Its Germanic way of doing business. when you sell unreliable crap. be prepared to prepare space for lease returns and complete devlauation of resale values.

 

Again, you have NO idea how dealerships work. Do you realize that a dealership makes WAY more money selling a used car, regardless where it came from? The dealership robs the person bringing the car in and turns around and makes ridiculous profit on it.

There is generally a very small margin of profit for selling new cars. Dealerships WANT good condition, newer used cars to sell.

Honda and Acura have big fleets of lease cars also. Honda is offering more cars as rental cars, which come back to them and then they have to sell.

All you do is look at one side of the equation, and say "these guys are idiots!" even though Honda and Acura DO THE EXACT SAME.

IT'S HOW THE BUSINESS WORKS.

 

And if the "Germanic way of doing business" is so terrible, why does Germany have one of the best economies in the world and why are they one of the richest countries in the European Union? Must be because they're all dummies, right? They don't know anything about anything.

 

sure i have no idea how dealership works. living next to dealership and have many friends there. i know they make money from used car if they have space for it. its SF bayarea. every space taken on rent has a huge price.
The customer of brands like BMW are generally snobby. when they visit the dealership they want big space in front of office to park there car. not at a distance. dealership has make big space empty for that. All the new cars are now thrown out from the dealership and only used cars are parked in the front.
You dont know any thing about Germanic fake prosperity. so better not go there.
show me Acura dealer doing the same?

 

Right, so if these used cars are such a problem, the dealer would send them to auction. Or to subsidiary "joe blow" dealerships they own. They aren't "trapped" with them. They WANT them. Take a step back and look at the entire picture, not just the one particular facet of a dealership that *looks* terrible.

And fake Germanic prosperity? Wow. This says it all.

I'll just leave this here for you, again:

 

they do all the tricks of disposing off used BMWs. like exchanging BMW with Acura/Lexus and sell those Acura/lexus to there dealers.
SF bayarea attracts people from many states and outside the country. so when there lease is up all the rest of country BMWs are dumped on them.
The fleet of loaner cars is huge. to deal with maintaince.

 

Huh?

 

Agree HUH. You get the impression he makes this up as he goes along. Sounds like a high rent district living next to an auto dealer.

Maybe that's why he is so bitter toward more expensive car brands.

Never worked at a dealer but do know a little about financing them. Back when I was a bright shiny up & coming AVP at the largest financial intuition in the US had a lot of dealings with GM before I got an appointment to International.

One of my teams together with GM developed & setup the first fully automated dealer floor plan system for all the cars & trucks they sold to dealers in the US. Very interesting business & would agree there is a lot of money in used trade ins & lease turn ins. They know before you sign the contract whether your car is going on the lot or off to auction. Generally BMW will keep a CPO eligible, send a non-CPO to a down market captive or off to auction.

Service is also a profit center but warranty work has tight margins compared to the same fix out of warranty.

Back to the subject:

Just say they want to compete heads up in the sport sedan class (no reason for upgrading unless they do) they have a big product alignment problem. Top end for the TLX is $47K MSRP. Bottom end is $54 for the FWD RLX. Bottom end 377HP RLX is $60K. They are indicating the 377 package is worth $6K.

If they put a $6K package on the top end TLX you are looking at $53K for a fully equipped 377HP car against a more expensive $54 310HP stripper. Sales are bad enough for the RLX so why put a spear through its heart?

 

does it make sense to buy new BMW 3/4/X3 new when CPO BMW 5/7/X5 are widely available with practically same looks and much more technology why will some one waste money on lesser car?. there is nothing special about this brand.
how many Sport Hybrid RLX or MDX advance or Pilot Elite you can find at used car lot?

 

SSFTSX, you should realize that ALL dealerships function essentially the same way. Doesn't matter if they're German, American, Japenese, Chinese, Italian, French, or whatever. They all do the same shit.

Also, @BEAR, maybe the RLX FWD needs to die because it just ain't that great. They really only need the RLX SH-AWD. Then the TLX has room. Acura Canada already killed the FWD V6 TLX.

 

Agree, when Maserati is selling five times as many cars as a mass market product you definitely have a problem

 

I have practically seen each and every dealer in SF bayarea. that include upto 9 Acura and 10 BMW dealers. in 60 mile radius. The ratio of used to new at BMW dealers are higher by several order of magnitude. Acura CPO programe is much much smaller. Acura CPOs are mostly loaners. The size of BMW dealerships is much bigger on average and loaner vehicles are much more in abundance.
The quality of BMW profits is questionable.

 

You need to stop. You really need to stop. You're so wrong on so many levels. Please, just stop. I beg you.

 

the real estate taxes and employee expense are sky high. Even if BMW dealership sells twice the number of Acura. they wont make it up the same profits.

 

Employee expense is the same as Acura. WTF are you talking about. What, you think BMW imports employees from Germany to staff it's dealerships? Dude, you're the worst troll of life. Acura would have the exact same "real estate taxes" and "employee expense" as BMW. There's zero difference.

Dude, you are proven wrong time and time and time and time again, and yet you never stop. Why? I don't get it. What's your motive? I'm serious here.

 

Let's get back on topic. Thanks.