ggesq

iTrader: (1)

I have yet to drive either 1.5 or 2.0 6MT and I am definately looking forward to it but that being said, one of my old coworkers has a 320i and for a 150 hp car or whatever it is, it was pretty fun (on/off ramps and mauneuvaribility on the highway) compared to my old 3G. It had a punch, get up and go and low end torque at low RPM's and had better driving dynamics than my 3G with ASPEC suspension and Progress sway bar.

IMHO FWD cars are a lot more forgiving to the average/ unskilled driver.

RWD cars just bring a smile to my face every time I drive one.

BEAR-AvHistory

Was not around much the past few days, was down at the BMW Performance Driving School in SC. 510 miles round trip Ave speed 76.5MPH with 30.8MPG gave me a range of just over 500 miles. Nice for 370WHP.

Just another day in a RWD car.


Besides being able to have fun with a sports coupe/sedan there are a few benefits which many people who enjoy driving can exploit in a properly balanced car.

Quick one :Weight Transfer. A car has 4 very tiny patches of tire rubber that connect it to the road. So its a good thing not to try to make the tires try to do to many things at the same time. RWD enables the front wheels to have only two functions steer & stop while the rears just power & stop. With a 50/50 balance nothing gets worked extra hard.

When a car accelerates the weight transfers to the rear applying more ground pressure on the driving tires for better traction. When you stop the weight shifts forward putting more ground pressure on the wheels steering & stopping the car for better traction & steering response.

Getting grocery's it might not be important unless a very sudden avoidance maneuver is required.

We were doing a sudden lane change & stop maneuver with spacing that would be impossible for the average FWD car to successfully complete. Personal opinion. Your results may vary.

What made it hard was you ran a section of road course with a hundred yard straight going into the change. At the end of the change was a box 1.5 car lengths long & wide. If you missed the box you lost 2 seconds on a penalty. Since it was a best time event the 100 yard straight coming off a fast left hand sweeper saw a lot of speed being carried into the change.

Two car Rat Racing on a huge wet down rectangular concrete pad with traction control locked off also gives appreciation of how the RWD cars balance can get you around corners very quickly. Also made for some nice drifting & understeer control practice.

As far as wasting money its a need vs a want vs what you can pay for your entertainment. Car needs can be handled by a Minivan or if you are a big spender a MiniVan & a 4 door Civic. Anything over that is just satisfying a want. Some satisfy that want with a TLX others with a German car.

Would agree that people buy a 320 for various reasons I don't understand but every 320/330 that goes out contributes to the bottom line & vey importantly in the USA to the CAFE requirements. Also enables product development in the performance area. Since 2004 I have had performance BMW's with 4 different engines at the top of the series. Each new design was more powerful than the last & all turned in similar fuel numbers. Again I expect it matters not to many here but the lower line cars are also running at least there 3rd new engine series.

That said the BMW club racing series are second only to the Miata series in national popularity. So the notion that no one actually drives these things is not correct.

Last thing the carping about the electric steering is pretty much the same as the save the manuals bleats. I expect I am one of the few people who can drive TRUE direct no power steering, hydraulic steering & electric back to back & would suggest most of it has to do with it being different than what most are used to.

TacoBello

shit, and I thought my thread derail was bad.

so who's driven a new 6mt Accord already? I'm eager to check one out

2012wagon

the 2.0 6MT won't be out for another month here. I have no interest in the 1.5TMT.

F23A4

I’ve never driven the 320i, nor am I familiar with its handling characteristics. My only interface with that model was when I completely blew one away on I-287 (NJ) late one evening a few months ago.

That said, I’m more apt to go at it on fairly straight roads than in the twisties....which there aren’t many of in Jersey unless one counts freeway on/off ramps.

Flipster23

iTrader: (15)

No 2.0 6MT I’m my area, I believe next month or December. I do kno that my dealer told me they will call me when the first one comes in...

Now, of course this is a chop, but, 6MT 2.0T lowered with wheels will look damn hot!!

BEAR-AvHistory

Agree on the derail, but bad plan asking why RWD.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I have driven a X1 18i RWD and a 418d RWD. They are fun to drive. But my similarly priced Civic Type R FWD is waaaaaaay more fun to drive. And then there's my S2k, which is on par, if not more fun than my CTR.

We all know theoretically, RWD is more fun to drive than FWD. In the real world however, there are way more variables than just FWD vs RWD. The point we are making here is that while the 320i is RWD, the F30 in general is not exactly a very fun to drive car, If you want a base RWD near luxury compact car that is fun to drive, there's the IS200t and ATS. The general consensus is that these are more fun to drive than the 3 series. And when it comes to pure driving fun, there's always the MX-5 or S2000 that are in another league.

And to be on topic, perhaps the 320i is more fun to drive than the Accord 2.0T. But is it THAT much more fun to drive, to overcome its huge power deficit as well as feature content?

Of course, if you feel the 320i is fun, then that's all it really matters for you.

BEAR-AvHistory

OK. We will have to agree to disagree I was driving the F30 at the school & drive an F32 every day. Trust me they are fun to drive in there current configuration. The 440 (F32) is a full step-up on the 435. A general one size fits all statement that they are no fun is way to board to cover these cars.

We were switching back & forth between the 340 & the M240. While the 240 "felt" more agile the 340 was within 10ths in all the events I drove both in. Both cars were running the same suspensions & tires but the M240 has more horsepower. Interesting side note they had to change my front tires about 3/4 of the way through the day. A lot of BMW's are now sold to people who want a quick but "comfortable" ride. The standard suspensions give them what they want.

If you want the better handling configurations you need to opt for the real-time adjustable suspensions. Or a step up from that the Track package with includes variable steering, better brakes & tires. So where we disagree is in what makes them fun to drive.

To someone who wants a nice cruiser they can have fun to drive in the standard or low optioned M-Sport packages. A little more adventurous drive can ala cart the real-time suspension for his idea of fun. Someone like me will buy a M-Sport with the track package & performance engine option. A track rat can option the full M-performance brake & suspension packages.

All these options are available across the product line so you can option a 320 with everything but the engine. Those 320 buyers, quite a few guys on the F30 & other BMW site have these cars. They are the 320 buyers I understand & are having fun at the track, Auto-X & grocery runs. Expect they would not mind playing with the CTR at the track or Auto-X. Of course I expect they will cheat & hang a $500 JB4 on it.

The problem you would have is trying to find one for a test ride as its rare for dealers to stock any of them. They want quick sellers for people who just want a BMW. on the lot.

Don't see how you can try to match an S2000 two seat sport car with a 4 door or 2 door 4 passenger regular car. Maybe you might want to match the S2000 with my COBRA both two seat front mid-engine RWD cars.

Its said the COBRA is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

pyrodan007

In the summertime, fun factor is a must. But here in Montreal come winter time, I don't care too much for RWD and it's fun factor when I see a 15+ cm snow storm is coming. Winter tires mandatory or not lol

2012wagon

man Montreal is such a great city!

Saintor

If you enjoy being stalled all the time, yes. Then a 2.0Toy will suffice (as the engine will be automatically shut-down anyway).

Ter-ri-ble.

Even a fr*cking Civic Si 2012 is doing better than this.

quantum7

I will take a controllable, predictable, fun MT 7.0s 5-60 versus a indecisive ZF any day.....on my long term loaner with the ZF it took 7.0 seconds just to downshift from 8th down to 3rd so that I could merge onto the highway without getting run over.
My current TL does 0 - 60 in 7.2s I believe and that is fine with me (not racing anyone), just don't want to be killed by a transmission that does what it wants.
OH....I forgot. Just drive in Sport + all of the time or paddle like a fish or install a Sprint Booster or ...whatever.

2012wagon

Spent a week there. Stayed in Old town, and St. katherine st. I wasn't driving, so wasn't an issue for me. Hot women, great food. Love the winter and summer.

wreak

I had the opportunity to have a look at the new 2018 Accord with the 1.5T. In person I think it's a pretty handsome sedan, the interior looked pretty fantastic too. I wasn't as big of a fan of the rear but it was something I could get used to. I think Honda is going to sell a ton of them.

If Honda offered a Type R Accord I would be ALL over it.

2012wagon

Seen a few on the road here . Looks great.

pyrodan007

Answers EVERYTHING discussed in this thread. And this is not from "one of us haters" here, from an experienced automobile journalist. Watch from 18:25 and on.

cinaibur

After the disappointing news today of the K20C1 crate only being sold to registered racecars, I'm more excited for some totaled 2018 accord 2.0T's to start popping up for swaps.

2012wagon

“they got rid of two great cars (TL and TSX) and came up with a mediocre car (TLX)”

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

What would you swap it into?
the only sensible swap i can think of is an integra.

cu2wagon

Maybe a TLX?

cinaibur

My s2000.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

a CRV or Pilot would be cool too!!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I heard good things about the 4 series. I was mainly talking about the F30 and how it compares with the ATS and IS though:
https://www.caranddriver.com/compari...e-specs-page-5
The Sweet Science: IS350 F-Sport v. BMW 335i v ATS V6 v Q50 - R&T Comparison

I think there's a misunderstanding. I didn't mean to say the F30 is no fun to drive. I'm just saying in this class, reviewers seem to prefer the ATS and IS in terms of driving fun.

I agree, the more family oriented BMWs are still quick but are also comfortable. This is where I feel things are different than in the past. Nothing wrong with that as that's what their customers want. Again, I'm just suggesting in terms of pure fun, the ATS and IS seem to have the upper hand. That's all.

And if people just want a comfortable car that is still fun to drive, the F30 is a good choice for sure.

Going back to the original discussion, the question was whether one would pick a base 320i or an Accord 2.0T. Fiatlux said the 320i is RWD and so it's automatically fun to drive. What we are saying is that the 320i is RWD and it's fun to drive, but is it actually more fun to drive than the new Accord 2.0T? If it is, is that extra fun more than enough to offset the significant power deficit and feature content? We are only talking about the $35k base 320i here though, as that's almost the same price as the Accord 2.0T Touring. It's certainly more money than the already well equipped Accord 2.0T EX-L.

Haha, I just threw in the S2k to show a point - not directly comparing it to a 320i.

Shadow2056

The ATS was specifically made to compete against the 3 series. It's transmission was it's downfall. It's a nice car. Brembo brakes, great engine selections(especially with the ATS V and it's twin turbo). But with the "Infotainment" being cumbersome and annoying, it falls. The 335i, I've always been a fan with it. But over the past few years, BMW has kind of dumbed down their...every day driver section. I'm a little upset that a $40k car doesn't come standard with a sunroof or remote start but a $22k Honda, Nissan or Ford does. The BMW 335i is still a fun car to drive. I want an F80 M3 SOOOOOOOOO badly. But i'll never have the $60k to afford the price tag. Lol. Nor the money to afford the upkeep.

Between the 320i and the Accord 2.0T. Keep in mind, these are two completely different cars in two completely different markets. People who call the 320i a fun to drive car are most likely not going to like a FWD car. Then again on the Accord Touring, you have the active dampening that you can hit the Sport mode and stiffen up the suspension and steering and change the shift points. And a 6spd transmission that automatically adds the "fun factor" back in. and as iforyou stated, its a $34k base car with no real features compared to a $34k car with nice features like a more powerful engine, adjustable suspension dampening(meaning push the button and the ride gets stiffer), remote start and more. But once again, they're in two completely different markets. I just wish Honda/Acura would have Brembo caliper options....

2012wagon

The 6MT 2.0T Accord isn’t getting the adaptive dampers


correct ?

Shadow2056

Incorrect. Touring models will have the Sport mode which will change the dampening on the struts.

2012wagon

I swore I read the 6MT 2.0T isn't getting adaptive dampers, and that was one of the complaints.....

Shadow2056

I'll double check to be sure. Per Honda's website:

"An Adaptive Damper System actively controls suspension action, while Wheel Resonators help minimize road noise for a refined driving experience. Standard on Touring."

2012wagon

I thought touring came with the 10AT gimpomatic, and that got adaptive dampers.

I was talking about the 6MT, and with the 1.5T or 2.0T, when you mate it with the 6MT, you don't get adaptive dampers.

At least that was my understanding.

Appreciate you checking

Shadow2056

Lol. "Gimpomatic". Hahahahaha!!!

I'll check and find out though. That could be something I might get asked on Saturday when I go to the car show in Charlotte as a rep for Honda. Watching the training videos, it said "Touring trims" so I'm thinking its 6spd and auto.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

While Honda may well have changed the specs, when I checked the 2.0T models a few weeks ago the Touring was exclusively offered as automatic only, the 6MT was relegated to the "strippo" Sport model.

2012wagon

Correct.

6MT 1.5T Sport is strippo.

6MT 2.0T sport is essentially EX+

2012wagon

I wish I had a Honda rep job

Shadow2056

Lol. Not really a "rep" for Honda. More of me being a rep for the dealership I work at. I'm at Honda Cars of Rock Hill as a Sales and Leasing Consultant. They asked a few of us who wanted to go to the car show and be a rep for the dealership and of course I volunteered.

And you're right. The Sport 2.0T 6MT is like the EX just with...more. Lol. You still get the leather trimmed interior, leather wrapped shift knob and steering wheel. But all Sports will come with, just like previous years, with black interior.

2012wagon

BEAR-AvHistory

The only issue I have with your test comparison examples is the 335 has been out of production for about 3 years. You need to dig up some with the current 3 series version the 340 which is now also do for replacement with the "G" series.

BTW that performance driving school vid I posted the other day was in a pure stock 340 M-Sport. Seemed to handle just fine in these old farts hands. Listen for me LMAO during the run.

TacoBello

Aren't you a doctor? Man, you made some really bad life choices.

2012wagon

it was a joke

the Honda rep was spewing incorrect info while we corrected him
a few times

Shadow2056