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I'm curious, for those of you who have driven both 1G TLX V6 with PAWS (FWD) and SH-AWD, does having SH-AWD make the car launch any faster off the line, with better 0-30 acceleration, or is the slower launch just a characteristic of the vehicle regardess of PAWS or SH-AWD?
I know the SH-AWD makes the vehicle take spirited corners better and handle snow/wintry conditions better, but I'm specifically asking about off the line performance.
I know testing got 0-60 0.1s faster with FWD vs SH-AWD, so I'm curious how they did that.
the all wheel drive system is HEAVY.
The J35 Does not produce enough torque at LOW RPMS to gain any traction at launches.
to significantly get a better launch, you gotta beat the piss out of the car. abuse it. Rev that shit at 5k at launch. but that's abusing the car, which will break components.
it seems like there isnt a real understanding of the engine's characteristics. or how weight affects quickness.
these engines make the most power at 6K RPM.
if one is spending the most time at 3500 RPM, one is not making the most power.
these particular engines are not stop light monsters. they are highway racers. at 60mph to 120mph is where these engines really shine.
Last edited by justnspace; 10-14-2020 at 11:01 AM.
here is my dyno...I have a 2006 6MT TL FWD. it's a J32, a 3.2 liter compared to your 3.5L.
my graph is labeled as "Justin"
but in either case, you can see at 2500 RPM both cars are making under 100HP. The Stock car or "Emmanuel" is making under 175lbs of torque. Where I'm making about 200lbs of torque at 2500RPM with no catalytic convertors
at 5000RPM, there is a significant rise in both HP and TQ from both cars because of the variable cam timing, or VTEC.
the all wheel drive system is HEAVY.
The J35 Does not produce enough torque at LOW RPMS to gain any traction at launches.
to significantly get a better launch, you gotta beat the piss out of the car. abuse it. Rev that shit at 5k at launch. but that's abusing the car, which will break components.
it seems like there isnt a real understanding of the engine's characteristics. or how weight affects quickness.
these engines make the most power at 6K RPM.
if one is spending the most time at 3500 RPM, one is not making the most power.
these particular engines are not stop light monsters. they are highway racers. at 60mph to 120mph is where these engines really shine.
Thanks. Revving the car to 5K is abusing the car and will break components? You're joking, right? I believe that's still 2k below redline.
Thanks. Revving the car to 5K is abusing the car and will break components? You're joking, right? I believe that's still 2k below redline.
at launch, sir. revving the car to 5k at launch will break components, specifically the drive train.. one will induce wheel hop
AT launch, if you launch the car at 5K you will break things.
I have a 6MT and can Launch at 5k if I want too, But I dont want to because I will induce wheel hop, which will break drive line components with my FWD.
same thing with EVO's and STI's....ask them to race at a dig, and they will tell you to go fuck yourself.
they do not want to risk breaking components because launching is so hard on the car.
Last edited by justnspace; 10-14-2020 at 11:28 AM.
at launch, sir. revving the car to 5k at launch will break components, specifically the drive train.. one will induce wheel hop
What is the best way (IDS mode and rpm) to get a fast 0-30, optimizing launch without breaking engine components, if I want to get around a slower vehicle at a stoplight?
My previous Accord Touring (also with the same J35) seemed to launch better 0-30 - I'm not sure why, but I like the TLX better in everything else.
The Accord stock tires were garbage - I replaced them with Yokogawa Advan Sport A/S so I'm much more familiar with the vehicle characterisitcs with those tires.
sport+ and rev that shit out all the way to redline, all though, you might not hit redline in that short amount of time...
which is an aspect of gearing.
sport+ and rev that shit out all the way to redline, all though, you might not hit redline in that short amount of time...
which is an aspect of gearing.
the TLX might not be geared for that 0-30 jaunt.
Again I have no desire to break or abuse drivetrain components.
I was able to get my previous Accord Touring V6 (FWD) with the same J35 to perform 0-30 more than satisfying (for me) in "Normal" mode and never got anywhere close to redline.
What is up with the TLX? Truly I like everything else about the TLX much better, but I'm a bit disappointed in this one regard. Is that a tire issue, a ZF9 issue, or something else?
Putting Yokogawa Advan A/S tires on the Accord did transform launch performance over the lousy stock tires. That was so long ago, that I forget how it compared to the TLX with stock tires.
gearing, transmission logic...all these things play apart in your quest to 30mph.
these cars are not stop light monsters.
they are more highway racers...you are able to pass with ease on the freeway.
so, no matter what you do, you most likely wont get a quicker 0-30mph from this particular car.
you cant change the gearing, you cant change the transmission. you are stuck with what you bought
gearing, transmission logic...all these things play apart in your quest to 30mph.
these cars are not stop light monsters.
they are more highway racers...you are able to pass with ease on the freeway.
so, no matter what you do, you most likely wont get a quicker 0-30mph from this particular car.
you cant change the gearing, you cant change the transmission. you are stuck with what you bought
The problem is that I was able to quickly and confidently pass slower moving vehicles with ease on multi-lane city roads from stoplights with the Accord Touring. That made the vehicle "fun" to drive. I would think the TLX would have been at least as good in that regard, since it has the same engine. The 3G RDX excels at that move if you ease into the launch (dont immediately floor it or it lags).
With that said, the Accord had incredibly uncomfortable seats, had a lot of road noise, and the audio was unlistenable for music. The TLX is night and day better in that regard. Also the PAWS does take turns better.
Last edited by AcuraGuy2016; 10-14-2020 at 11:55 AM.
I know with Sh-AWD there is no under steer and if in sports plus it has enough power if you push it with no wheel hop at all. I am not a racer so I don't do those things to my car I enjoy the ride comfort and the power when I need it. Also Sh-AWD has its 70% power goes to the rear wheel that is why it feels heavy but it is enough power for me. I know some individuals would like more out of it as they either try to race or just for fun everyone driving habit is different from every other driver. So at the end of the day it depends on the driver how he or she drives hard or normal.
This has to be a ZF gearing thing. I get it. I test drove extensively for jerks and vibrations and it was and still is nice and smooth. It really is fine for how I drive 95% of the time. I just won't be able to make the fun moves I used to like in my Accord Touring. That was the only thing I really liked about the Accord. I hated the incredibly uncomfortable seats, lousy audio, and high road noise the other 95% of the time.
Acura should have put the 10 speed auto in the 1G TLX MMC for the V6. They're keeping the J35 with the 10 speed in the new MDX, which has SHAWD implementation.
I started this thread wanting to compare those who have experience comparing 0-30 off the line performance for 2018-2020 V6 PAWS (FWD) vs SH-AWD.
My recollection was that the 2015 SH-AWD was more "fun" to drive off the line at least for the initial 0-30, and I recall the SH-AWD dash icon biasing the rear wheels at launch and being satisfied with the initial launch behavior and vehicle dynamics, but the ZF9 was jerky as heck in the 25-40mph range. That was from a loaner TLX over 5 years when I still had a 3G TL. It was never compared back to back with a FWD V6. That was so long ago, that it is not a good comparison.
My 2020 V6 FWD TLX handles just fine. It also gets great fuel economy, especially for highway driving. I don't accelerate into turns, so I actually find PAWS takes turns better if you don't accelerate into them. It is fun to drive and maneuver on a highway. The PAWS also has a great turning radius.
Last edited by AcuraGuy2016; 10-14-2020 at 08:13 PM.
I have SH-AWD TLX. I used to work acura and drive plenty of front wheel drives
"Off the line" SH-AWD in my opinion is way better. Main reason, front wheel drive will have wheel slip and sqeal the tires and then kick in, but it will not grip as well.
With SH-AWD, it can be pouring rain, in sport +, go full throttle, and zero wheel spin, just grips and goes!
I have SH-AWD TLX. I used to work acura and drive plenty of front wheel drives
"Off the line" SH-AWD in my opinion is way better. Main reason, front wheel drive will have wheel slip and sqeal the tires and then kick in, but it will not grip as well.
With SH-AWD, it can be pouring rain, in sport +, go full throttle, and zero wheel spin, just grips and goes!
If that's the case, I'm a bit annoyed, as I really like everything else about the vehicle. I would have bought an AWD, but did not due to all the vibration issues I've read about on this and another forum.
If that is the case, moving to higher performance tires should help, since it seems to be the ability of the tires to grip at launch and not a ZF9 tranny issue. Higher performance tires seemed to make a world of difference in my FWD Accord V6 - upgraded to Yokohama Advan Sport A/S in that.
I may have overstated the 0-30 issue. It's really a launch issue from a stop. Once it's up and running >15-20mph it's fine.
What is the best way (IDS mode and rpm) to get a fast 0-30, optimizing launch without breaking engine components, if I want to get around a slower vehicle at a stoplight?
My previous Accord Touring (also with the same J35) seemed to launch better 0-30 - I'm not sure why, but I like the TLX better in everything else.
The Accord stock tires were garbage - I replaced them with Yokogawa Advan Sport A/S so I'm much more familiar with the vehicle characterisitcs with those tires.
The TLX should feel better off the line. They both weight about the same (the AWD TLX is about 150lbs heavier with some additional driveline losses) and the TLX has a much lower first gear. 13.237 (Accord) vs 18.03 (TLX). Traction control may be reducing your throttle input to prevent loss of control. For the best launch, turn off traction control, hold the car in place with the brakes and bring the torque converter to stall speed (around 2,000 rpm), then release the brake. You're going to want to be in Sport + to make the transmission shift at redline and have premium gas to prevent timing retardation.
Yes tires help. I remember when I first bought the car when it had stock tires it still had no wheel slip at launch, even in heavy rain. I have since swapped out to sticky tires, BFG Sport Comp 2, a huge difference when going around corners or thru intersections fast it drives like its on rails.
I could never go back to a front wheel drive car again
The TLX should feel better off the line. They both weight about the same (the AWD TLX is about 150lbs heavier with some additional driveline losses) and the TLX has a much lower first gear. 13.237 (Accord) vs 18.03 (TLX). Traction control may be reducing your throttle input to prevent loss of control. For the best launch, turn off traction control, hold the car in place with the brakes and bring the torque converter to stall speed (around 2,000 rpm), then release the brake. You're going to want to be in Sport + to make the transmission shift at redline and have premium gas to prevent timing retardation.
You might be ok to something. I've been disappointed in my TLX launch vs the Accord V6 when putting a similar rpm from the pedal at launch. Since the TLX has a lower first gear, I'd have to rev higher than the Accord off the line to get a similar response. What's the highest I can rev that doesn't cause engine damage? I've never made the TLX jump or lose traction. It just doesn't respond as fast at launch with similar engine rpm at launch vs the Accord. After about 20mph, it is a very fun vehicle, even with just the FWD PAWS.
I probably drive less aggressively than most on this forum, but much more aggressively than the typical Honda/Toyota suburban drivers that crawl in line. I want to be able to pass them from a stoplight. Saves a lot of time if I can get around and miss a light.
I'm still on the dealer first tank of gas. Dealer only uses 89 octane (for all Acuras...not sure why) and plan to use premium when I fill it up in the future.
Last edited by AcuraGuy2016; 10-15-2020 at 07:22 PM.
you're not gonna damage the engine by bake boosting it.
However, you can damage driveline components if you induce wheel hop. you can break axles, you can break motor mounts, you could hurt the torque convertor.
Go try it out man. brake boost at 2000 RPM and let it go and see how it feels.
if you get daring, try a higher RPM and then higher and higher
it's called trial by error
Brake boosting the car is OBVIOUSLY abusing the car and one shouldnt make it a habit to do it.
Last edited by justnspace; 10-15-2020 at 07:23 PM.
you're not gonna damage the engine by bake boosting it.
However, you can damage driveline components if you induce wheel hop. you can break axles, you can break motor mounts, you could hurt the torque convertor.
Go try it out man. brake boost at 2000 RPM and let it go and see how it feels.
if you get daring, try a higher RPM and then higher and higher
it's called trial by error
What exactly is wheel hop? What causes it? Since the TLX has a lower first gear than the Accord, I'm guessing I'd have to rev it higher than I was used to in the Accord to get a similar off the line response?
when one exceeds the limit of traction, could be tires or could be the suspension.
if the FWD car has too soft of suspension and overloading it as the car squats to gain traction, the car will start to hop. same thing with tires, if you overload the limit of the tires traction, the car will begin to bounce. too much squat too much power being sent through the front wheels will over load either of these components .
for my car, if I launch it at above 3500RPM I get massive wheel hop. again, I have a 6MT and can at will launch at high RPMs, it's not good for the car in general to launch very hard.
If I had a SHAWD I'd probably launch the car HARDER than what I do with a FWD
Last edited by justnspace; 10-15-2020 at 07:35 PM.
also, it sounds like the TLX is limiting power in first gear or launch. IF you cant get the wheels to spin, it means the Acura engineers put in a safety so that you cant launch hard so that you wont be able to break components.
also, it sounds like the TLX is limiting power in first gear or launch. IF you cant get the wheels to spin, it means the Acura engineers put in a safety so that you cant launch hard so that you wont be able to break components.
I have not been flooring it, so I have yet to hear the tiles squeal at launch, which would happen before wheel hop.
My observation is that if I launch at the same rpm as the Accord, then the higher first gear would launch the TLX slower. I would need to rev the TLX harder to get the same launch performance as the Accord, assuming the tires can handle it, because of the TLX higher first gear. Agree?
I burned through the stock crap Accord tires with long highway commutes, that I really didnt launch much in those, and at 5am without traffic, I was not launching hard. I was already in the Advan Sports when I had fun with that vehicle.
I have not been flooring it, so I have yet to hear the tiles squeal at launch, which would happen before wheel hop.
My observation is that if I launch at the same rpm as the Accord, then the higher first gear would launch the TLX slower. I would need to rev the TLX harder to get the same launch performance as the Accord, assuming the tires can handle it, because of the TLX higher first gear. Agree?
I burned through the stock crap Accord tires with long highway commutes, that I really didnt launch much in those, and at 5am without traffic, I was not launching hard. I was already in the Advan Sports when I had fun with that vehicle.
A higher gear ratio should accelerate the car faster (all things being equal) than a lower gear ratio. [Think bicycles. A bike in the lowest gear is easy to get going fast with less effort but has a lower top speed in that gear.] The difference you're feeling is probably down to the throttle mapping. Most MT cars have pretty linear throttle response (important for all kinds of routine MT driving tasks like rev matching and smooth starts). In automatics engineers have more leeway to get creative. The Accord is probably more aggressively mapped because it doesn't have any drive modes and first gear is much higher.] A small input on the Accord will elicit a much greater response from the engine than a small input on the TLX in the normal IDS mode. I think in eco and normal the car also progressively adds in even large throttle inputs from a standstill to give that smooth luxury feel (many people perceive this as a delay in throttle response). In Sport and Sport+ the car is more aggressively mapped.
I forgot to mention that you shouldn't need to brake boost in the FWD V6 TLX. That car should break traction by just stomping on the throttle. Like this:
To answer your original question, the AWD TLX will feel faster when you give it full throttle inputs. It will not feel faster with smaller inputs (it will probably feel slower).
A higher gear ratio should accelerate the car faster (all things being equal) than a lower gear ratio. [Think bicycles. A bike in the lowest gear is easy to get going fast with less effort but has a lower top speed in that gear.] The difference you're feeling is probably down to the throttle mapping. Most MT cars have pretty linear throttle response (important for all kinds of routine MT driving tasks like rev matching and smooth starts). In automatics engineers have more leeway to get creative. The Accord is probably more aggressively mapped because it doesn't have any drive modes and first gear is much higher.] A small input on the Accord will elicit a much greater response from the engine than a small input on the TLX in the normal IDS mode. I think in eco and normal the car also progressively adds in even large throttle inputs from a standstill to give that smooth luxury feel (many people perceive this as a delay in throttle response). In Sport and Sport+ the car is more aggressively mapped.
I forgot to mention that you shouldn't need to brake boost in the FWD V6 TLX. That car should break traction by just stomping on the throttle. Like this: https://youtu.be/o8KxGAAlI3Y
To answer your original question, the AWD TLX will feel faster when you give it full throttle inputs. It will not feel faster with smaller inputs (it will probably feel slower).
Thanks. Yes it takes less force to initially get going from a stop in a bike in first gear, but provided I have enough force to get going, I'll have to "rev" my legs faster to move the same speed in 1st vs in 2nd.
All I'm saying is that I'd have to rev the engine faster in the TLX to have a similar launch as the Accord. I've been revving the engine at launch similarly to how I drove the Accord, since I was used to driving that way in the Accord. It sucks 0-20 but is great after. I've not yet pushed the TLX anywhere near redline.
sounds like you just need to go out and have fun with your car to figure out it's limits.
as each and every car will have it's own characteristic that you will need to learn. and not the other way around (car wont learn your preference)
This is true. Like I said, I drive much more aggressively than your average suburban Toyota/Honda/SUV driver, but probably much less aggressively than those on this forum.
I drove the TLX today. It launches fine, I just have to rev it harder than the Accord to get it to behave the way I want. This seems to be the higher gearing ratio in first gear to accelerate once it goes. Sport+ revs too high. Sport mode gives a good balance, but I have to push it to 3000-4000 and it goes fine. No wheel hop or squealing. It certainly handles much better than my Accord.
Also noticed when cruising it would be 1500rpm in top gear when the Accord would cruise closer to 2000rpm in top gear under similar conditions.
Last edited by AcuraGuy2016; 10-16-2020 at 04:23 PM.
sounds like you just need to go out and have fun with your car to figure out it's limits.
as each and every car will have it's own characteristic that you will need to learn. and not the other way around (car wont learn your preference)
Getting more familiar with the vehicle and how it drives. As I feel more comfortable with how it responds and pushing it, I'm definitely finding it more fun to drive, and perform better than my previous 9.5G Accord V6 in all scenarios, including launch.
PAWS makes it more nimble than the Accord. I have to put it in Sport and Rev a bit harder at launch due to the first gearing ratio, but the car responds fine as I've learned it. Normal mode is quiet comfortable cruising and commuting when I want that.
Overall happy with the vehicle. Only regrets are I wish I had purchased sooner when Advance or A-Spec were still available (cooled seats, wireless charging, and parking sensors). Had dealer add remote start which works great. The vehicle is the right size and has enough power. ELS is great, but really shows the limits with SiriusXM due to high compression. It sounds great with a CD or Tidal Hifi.
Last edited by AcuraGuy2016; 10-24-2020 at 05:49 PM.
This is true. Like I said, I drive much more aggressively than your average suburban Toyota/Honda/SUV driver, but probably much less aggressively than those on this forum.
I drove the TLX today. It launches fine, I just have to rev it harder than the Accord to get it to behave the way I want. This seems to be the higher gearing ratio in first gear to accelerate once it goes. Sport+ revs too high. Sport mode gives a good balance, but I have to push it to 3000-4000 and it goes fine. No wheel hop or squealing. It certainly handles much better than my Accord.
Also noticed when cruising it would be 1500rpm in top gear when the Accord would cruise closer to 2000rpm in top gear under similar conditions.
What exactly do you mean by "rev it harder"? Do you mean you're brake boosting it and launching it at a higher RPM? Or just that you allow the engine to rev to a higher RPM while accelerating before it shifts into 2nd gear? I think you may be confusing the two things.
What exactly do you mean by "rev it harder"? Do you mean you're brake boosting it and launching it at a higher RPM? Or just that you allow the engine to rev to a higher RPM while accelerating before it shifts into 2nd gear? I think you may be confusing the two things.
No brake boosting. Just that to get the TLX to perform/launch the way I'd like, I need to use IDS Sport Mode and let the engine rev to a higher RPM when accelerating before it shifts into a higher gear. The TLX is much more "fun" to drive in Sport Mode than in Normal Mode, but Normal is fine for stop and go commuting.
10-14-2020, 10:42 AM
