jdigeorgio

I have had the 2012 TL Base for about 2 years now. It came with brand new Kumho Ecsta 4x tires as it was a certified car. So I now have 20k on these tires (I only do 10k per year). The tread depth looks really good on these despite some people saying they wore this tire out in 20 to 25k miles. Mine look like they could go the full 40k.

Anyway, despite these tires being in very good shape, I find myself wanting to replace them because the fronts will spin if I accelerate with the least bit of enthusiasm. This is in dry conditions too. So despite pretty decent reviews on these Kumhos, I think they are crap because of this.

Wondering if anyone else has had this issue and if a better tire solved it - or if it's just that the TL is inherently bad about spinning the fronts in general and no tire will solve this.

If you were able to reduce or eliminate this spin with a tire swap, what tire did you go with? I live in FL so I could even go with a UHP Summer tire. I believe the Ecsta 4x are UHP All Season.

Thanks.

NBP04TL4ME

I don't have a 4G TL, but have a 3G Type S. There are significantly better tires out there than the Kumho Ecsta. If you want to spend some $$, I would highly recommend the Michelin Pilot Super Sport, especially seeing you are in FL. I have these as my summer tires. These are super sticky tires and while I can't promise you won't be able to spin them, you should have a much more difficult time doing so. The super sticky piece also will translate into them wearing out sooner because of the softer compound rubber.
You have to pay to play

If you want something in between, you can give the Continental Extreme Contact DWS06 a try. These have/are been favorites by many TL owners.

jdigeorgio

Thanks - extremely helpful. This is exactly what I was hoping for. I am leaning towards the Continentals now. I had read about them on TR and thought they sounded good.

I have learned from this experience that when it comes to tires, the score tables don't give you the whole picture because they aren't always accurate in terms of real life performance on your specific vehicle and in your driving conditions. I say that because the Ecsta would appear to be a great tire if you look at the numbers. And perhaps it is for some drivers/cars but I am not seeing it in my situation.

I would honestly rather have the performance and enjoy the car then get 50-70k from the tire. If I can get 30k from a tire - I wouldn't complain. I understand why the dealer puts the Kumho on their certified cars - it's the price point. The buyer gets new rubber and is happy that they don't need to worry about that until they find that the tires aren't that great for spirited driving ...

Thanks again.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

The Ecsta 4x aren't amazing tires, but I had them on my daily driver Mazda 3 and never experienced them losing traction at "least bit enthusiasm". Are you sure you're not tire shining the actual tread?

Extreme Contacts that NBP04TL4ME mentioned are good tires.

thoiboi

too much

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Dunlop Star Spec II or Hankook RS-3 v2.

Both these tires are great for street, autocross, or track days. I am running Star Spec II myself.

NBP04TL4ME

Very true. TL is a relatively high HP car and the combination with FWD will allow/create wheel spin depending on how heavy your foot is

jdigeorgio

Yeah - it feels like the shine is on the tread! It really feels like driving on a wet or icy surface. It's like you take off and you are waiting for the tire to make grip so you can go. Under light acceleration - no problem. But if you step on it whatsoever - forget it. I mean this car is supposed to go 0 to 60 in under 6 seconds. But with tire spin - it seems more like 10 seconds!

I had a Trans Am back in the late 70s (Smokey and the Bandit style) and that car would spin tires like crazy. Big fat Uniroyals! It was real easy to lose control in that car - you could find yourself in a ditch or tree if you weren't careful. But that car was just raw power - none of the technology we have today (traction control, tire tech, etc.) Sometimes I feel like I am in that old Pontiac again - it's just the front spinning now instead of the back!

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

RS3 are an absolutely terrible recommendation for a daily driver.

The RS3 is what I have on my S2000 and it's terrifying to drive in the rain. I wouldn't imagine rocking them on the TL.

Hankook V12 Evo would be a better multi-season tire. (Note: they are "Summer" tires but they're more rain/other friendly than the RS3)

jdigeorgio

I am pretty much set on the Continental Extreme Contacts. I see several variations. There is a DW, DWS, and DWS 06. The DWS are slightly less money than the DWS 06. But it appears these tires are somewhat different ...

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

DWS is the old version - hence the slightly cheaper price on TireRack. It's replaced by the DWS06

Continental ExtremeContact DWS Replaced by ExtremeContact DWS 06 - Make Driving Fun with Performance Tires & Wheels | Tire Rack

The DW is a Summer tire whereas the DWS are All Season.

jdigeorgio

Thanks for the clarification. For the price difference it would seem the 06 would be worth it. I am reading some of the other threads now (haven't been on here in a while - mostly back when I had my 02 TL).

Anyway, I think part of my issue with performance isn't just the tires. I do think the tranny is acting funning too and now I am reading about the torque converter issues! My tranny does act funny as hell too. I thought I just needed a fluid flush but now I am wondering. It's quite jerky - at times to the point of being startling.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack my own thread here but there could be several factors at play. When a Prius pulled away from me the other day at a stop light and I was stepping on it - it seemed that something wasn't quite right even beyond the tire spin...and I think it's more than the tires now.

herbert6368

R888

JasonK

Hey how's it going?

Since you're in Florida I will recommend these tires for you since you guys have nice weather all the time

Michelin Pilot Super Sports
Bridgestone Potenza (Watch which one you get, lots of different ones)
Continental Pro Contacts

^ All are good tires if you're looking for grip and something that won't spin. Especially if you have nice weather all the time. The Supersports stick really nice in the summer here. I have a set of them and a set of Michelin PA-4's for my winters. If I had to recommend a tire it would be the Supersports or Potenza.

SeismicGuy

To resurrect an old thread, I drive my wife's 2012 TL on the weekends and have always noticed that, any even mild push of the pedal from a stop results in not only annoying tire spin but also a lurch of the steering wheel to the right. I generally drive pretty mildly so this does not happen often, but is there a way to"launch" this car in a spirited way?

Doug

Edward'TLS

This is called "torque steer", man.

If you hammer the gas pedal to the floor hard enough, your steering wheel might even jerk off your unsuspecting hands.

thoiboi

Get less shitty tires too

SeismicGuy

I knew it was "torque steer" but was still surprised at how strong that was in this car. Everyone is always clamoring for higher hp engines or mods to up the hp but, frankly, I don't see that most drivers would easilby be able to put that to good use in a front wheel drive car.

jdigeorgio

I agree that a lot of the spin is due to tires. I don't know that you can completely eliminate the spin but with a summer performance tire, I think it can be greatly reduced. I haven't replaced mine simply because the crappy All Season Kumhos still have a lot of tread left. But as soon as I can, I will upgrade the tires to something better (assuming I keep the car). These Kumhos seem to be barely wearing at all - which is another tell-tale they aren't that grippy. I don't know what tires you have - but I would look at that and replace them with something stickier if it's near time to replace them ...I would go with the Continental Pure Contacts or Extreme Contacts or Michelin Pilot SuperSports ... but go to TireRack and read the reviews for ideas and ratings. You can also lookup your current tires and see how they did - that could tell you something as well.

NBP04TL4ME

TL is a relatively high HP FWD car. Tires with softer compound rubber will grip better but also potentially increase torque steer effect. However added HP by mods and such are also useful in accelerating out of turns, passing 45-65, etc...., not just at launch.

Edward'TLS

Talking about strong "torque steer". This is nothing compared to hammering the gas pedal when the steering wheel is anything except pointing straight, for example, such as taking off at a corner.

Some car makers, such as Mazda, will drastically reduce engine power to some of its high power FWD cars in an effort to reduce "torque steer". But this equates to slow acceleration.

To sum it up, nothing beats 4WD/AWD capability in putting good use of big hp engines.

jdigeorgio

I've been more focused on the tire spin than the torque steer issue. I hadn't noticed terrible torque steer on my 2012 TL. But just googling it comes up with a lot of tips for potentially reducing torque steer on high powered front drive cars. I found tips on checking tire pressure (for too low or unequal pressure) and even experimenting with different pressure levels. Ensuring the tires match and have about the same tread depth (uneven wear can cause this). Apparently even an alignment issue can contribute to TS (although you will likely see other symptoms from that problem first). Most of what i read said that beyond these things, there is little a car owner can do to reduce TS. There is some info indicating a stickier tire can help because torque steer is generally caused by one tire breaking traction and allowing the other to pull the car in that direction. So in theory, a stickier tire will increase traction to both tires (hopefully resulting in less likelihood that one tire breaks traction). Even both tires loosing traction apparently causes this issue - as this can jerk the wheel affecting driver control. Hope that helps - I found the info interesting .....

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^^ a sticky tire can help torque steer!!! although, you'll be buying tires a lot more frequently - a drawback if you will.
the main thing tho, is learning the characteristics of the car and feathering the throttle.

can't goose it.
I have a 6MT FWD TL and I absolutely love sticky tires and will not put an all season on, due to the fact that I get maximum grip at all times!
I've also added stiffer damping on all four corners via adjustable coilover. This also helped TQ Steer!
adding a larger sway bar in the rear helped, but i bet the bigger take away will be a larger front sway bar!!

Anything that you can do to tighten up the front will get you a tighter turn-in, less torque steer, less wheel hop, etc...etc.

SeismicGuy

We have the standard Michelin's that came with the car (similar to the ones that were OEM on our previous 2000TL as well). This is my wife's daily driver that replaced our previous 2000 TL so performance was not as big a deal. Still the reason we ended up with the 2012 TL was largely based on how much "sportier" it drove compared with the cars we were considering, while still managing to keep a decent amount of quality/luxury feel. I recall with our 2000 (which was rated at "only" 225 hp) it also was not difficult to unintentionally get tire chirp/spin on a brisk acceleration from stop. On the 2012 it happens much more frequently (the transmission seems to hook up with more authority than the 2000). I guess if this were my daily driver I would definitely be looking for higher performance tires.

TacoBello

also, to reduce breaking traction, put wider tires on. Even going up one step in size (which generally OEM rims can easily handly) will make a noticeable difference. That, and as pointed out, stickier tires.

I live in a terrible climate where and as such, I have two dedicated sets of tires for my car. I have a dedicated set of winter rubber on my OEM wheels (in oem size), and for summer, I have a dedicated set of the stickiest tires I can find on my summer wheels. All seasons should be renamed "all compromise" as they don't excel in any type of weather as much as a dedicated tire will. It's a cheaper alternative, but as always, you get what you pay for.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

at the time, 2000's....the standard testing of HP had changed and the 2000 TL made way less hp than the "rated"

so, yes...the new TL is putting down way more power than of the old!
remember to feather that throttle!

jdigeorgio

I am happy to report back that I did replace the tires and to my own surprise, opted for the re-engineered version of the Ecsta 4x. It's labeled the 4x II which is an UHP All Season Z rated tire. It's really quite a different tire than the first gen with much higher ratings on TireRack. I wanted the Continentals but they were virtually twice the price. So far, the newer Kumho seems substantially better. Quieter and stickier. But of course, a new tire will be better than an old tire. Time will tell. Thanks for all the recommendations.