fusiongt

I had trouble starting the car and ended up getting towed to my local Acura dealer. well.. 2 days later they called me and it was the HID kit(fog) messed up the car.????? so i was like HOW??? and the tech pointed out the (-) ground was touching the paint serface and ultimatly it fied the ECU..!!??

Colin

Wow, sorry to hear about that. Did you self install or have a shop do it? If a shop, maybe you can seek compensation from them for what is surely going to be an expensive repair.

edit to add: You sure it's the ground that is the culprit? I'd imagine that the ground should be going to ... well ... ground.

dwest1023

Sorry to hear that. Hope you did not install the lights and if you had a shop do it, don't go back to them again. When you are dealing with high voltage everything needs to be secure. Hope it does not cost you much but I am sure the ECU will not be cheap.

fusiongt

I installed the kit myself... does that mean i'm faked???? I ground the line to the front metal fender well. hell I drove the car with this kit for like 6 months so far, and the ECU got fried after all this time.? hmmmm. oh btw. the tech said a new ECU costs like $3000!!

pokin

I second this. The car frame and metal body is your ground in a vehicle. I am no mechanic, but the ground wire touching the body explanation doesn't seem rational

pokin

Did they perform any diagnosis that revealed a fried ECU? Did the tech explain why they think a ground wire connected to the fender would have blown the ECU?

Pete2010

Something sounds fishy at the dealership... I'm no electrician, but wouldn't the ground wire go to the frame? Frame is connected to the rubber on the wheels, and then grounded?

Plus the fact you had it this way for 6 months... something doesn't seem right. I bet they don't know what caused it, and are looking at an aftermarket addition as a cop out...

Colin

It's entirely possible that the description the tech gave was not exactly what was written here. Such things are easily misunderstood or 'lost in the translation' between tech and 'lay' person. This is why I pointed it out.

To the OP, there is a good chance that you are on the hook for this repair. You may need to try Acura Client services to see if they can get the district rep to review your case. BTW, Does your aftermarket HID kit still work?

Edited again to add: It is possible that the tech was pointing out that you didn't have a proper when he mentioned the painted surface. Did you sand the paint away?

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

didnt something similar happen to Big Pimpin CL-S ? The dealer said his HID kit wrecked something, i cant remember what

0akland

Sorry to say, but you guys could come up with all kind of theories...i.e. the dealer is this, the dealer is that.

in the end, it is still a $3000 ECU and I hope you know that the dealer WILL void your electrical warranty from here on end.

I would stay far away from the district rep if i were you. He will bring "the warranty hammer down" on your car.

Let's just hope they havent read this thread yet. Not to sugar coat it, but you are royally screwed.

prepreludesh

That's it... from here on out, every aftermarket part I install on the TL is going to come off the moment something goes wrong with the car. It will get towed back to my house first and then get towed to the dealership once I've taken everything off and put the OEM back on (except the RonJon Grille I plan to order )

Colin

Well, I was trying to be nice. As for getting the district rep involved, I think it depends on what stage the dealer is at. In my opinion, the "warranty hammer" has already come down on him. He has little to lose by a appealing his case to the district service manager.

But you are correct, once you modify the car you take a good deal of responsibility upon yourself. The bottom line is that if there were no modifications at all, the repair would be a slam dunk. The OP has introduced the variable and must face the potential consequences.

Let me add that in the OP's favor, he didn't try to hide it. I know that when people used to come in with an over-revved RSX, if they lied and said "I don't know what happened", they got nothing. If they came in with 'their cap in their hand' I've seen them bend the rules and help with a repair that is not a warranty issue.

fusiongt

what I really dont understand is that I had the same hid kit for my 07 civic and almost exact ground location, and that car is still rolling fine after damn near 3 yrs now.! The car started fine but the engine just shut off automatically after 2 secs. And I also checked the head light and fogs but they worked fine too..

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

Where did you exactly put the ground wire?

Honestly, the more i think about it, this story is bologna.

If the HID kid, being improperly grounded to the car, caused the ECU to "fry", then there should have been alot of other components damaged.... HVAC? Internal Electronics, The HID Headlights and/or Foglights should not be working anymore....

Ask the dealer to PROVE IT, and then they can give you a bill. If not, they're legally obligated to fix you car. A Dealer needs PROOF

Here is a segment from the Magnuson-Moss Act

This federal law regulates warranties for the protection of consumers. The essence of
the law concerning aftermarket auto parts is that a vehicle manufacturer may not
condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which
are identified by brand, trade, or corporate name (such as the vehicle maker's brand)
unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. The law means that the use of
an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty. However, the law's
protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually
caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. Further, consumers are advised
to be aware of any specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty which may result
in its being voided. The law states in relevant part:


Basically, this is a REALLY gray area... Yes, if the HID kit destroyed the ECU, they dont have to repair it... BUT, they MUST MUST prove the HID kit caused the failure. Also, you may want to get a copy of the written warranty from Acura regarding the car, to see the language used and the terms set forth by Honda/Acura.

I would go back there, and ask for proof. then discuss their legal obligations to repair your car if they cant provide any proof.


I'm not somebody who thinks we should "stick it to the man" or let the "corporate fat cat absorb the cost" ..... if you had an aftermarket HID system installed, and the Fog lights stopping working, or you got a "lamp out" indicator on the dash... then thats your problem.... but honestly, HID kits?? frying an ECU?? I dont buy it... not unless you grounded the damn HID kit to the ECU grounding wire

my

Colin

Heh, there is a lot more aluminum in the TL chassis than a Civic chassis. The things that stick out are this is a 3 year old kit, it is entirely possible it simply was 'ready' to fail. Those ballasts run some high voltage so you never know.

As for the Magnuson-Moss Act, you are correct, it is a really grey area. They might argue that they have already proven it in the diagnosis. If it becomes a technical "expert" battle, the OP will probably lose. I know it's not a popular opinion, but I think he should beg for warranty 'mercy' and not take a "you prove it approach"

dwest1023

I have been in electronics for 37 years and I also have the factory service manual for the 09 TL. I can tell you that the fogs are turned on by ONE of the ECU's(there are several). I believe the ground is also connected to the ECU and might be what is "connected when the light are called to be turned on. The Fod lights are not the typical switch positive volatage.
Most mechanics I have dealt with no nothing about electronics so when they do not know the real answer you get the BS Line. They just replace parts and modules now. Thats where we are at now. Tothe OP, because you installed these your self. the dealer is not going to fix it under warranty.
I have been trying to get the fogs to come on without the headlights, and though I think I can do it, there are some connection to the ECU the manual does not explain. I saw the potential to ruin the ECU so I just gave up that project for now. I did do this on my TSX but it wired much different then this high tech car. All I can say is lesson learned.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

Smart perspective.

rondog

iTrader: (1)

hopefully they will at least meet you in the middle if you get a professional 2nd opinion. If they don't budge and it looks helpless, then take them to small claims court with your evidence, only as a last resort.

mike03a3

I'm an electrical engineer who was once an auto mechanic, and I'm skeptical that the HID kit caused the problem. HOWEVER, the Magnuson-Moss Act doesn't really help you in this situation. It prevents companies from requiring you to use their replacement parts instead of third-party parts so they cannot hold you hostage to keep your warranty. In this case, the car was modified not merely serviced with a non-OEM replacement part. Once you go off the reservation and start modifying the car you are skating on thin ice. Having said that, I still think the dealer may be screwing you. I modified the hell out of my Jag XJ-S, with a different intake, different ECU, larger throttle bodies, different springs, shocks & swaybars, a 3.54 rear instead of the lame 2.88 gears and (tada!) tossed the auto for a Tremec 5-speed (which required more than a few non-OEM parts since they didn't even offer a manual transmission). Even after all that, the dealer supported the car and the warranty, with the mutual understanding that I owned any problem from the mods.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

^ not to get tooooo off topic, but any pics of that XJ-S ?? My favorite car. ever. i'd give anything for a mint condition UK Lister XJ-S

fusiongt

holy shyt. the tech just informed me that gauge cluster control module went out too. $900 for the new unit. this is gettin out of control!!!!!

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

dude. pick the car up from the dealer before they start "breaking" more shit. you need a 2nd opinion

dwest1023

Dude, in the service manual, the gauge cluster is all part of the ecu. There are several in the TL. AT this point if the car still runs, I think I would have an independent shop look at it, if possible. I would think, that some fuses should have blown first. If you do get this car fixed, MAKE SURE the dealer gives you all the bad parts. ON my Miata forum, we had a member who was told his ECU was fried from a exhaust sensor wire, touching the exhaust. 2K was the repair bill. He refused and found out it was only a fuse. I know the dealer knew this. Now that I am writing this, did you check every single fuse in the car? I would think the ECU's are highly protected. Once there is no warranty the sky is the limit with a dealer

bagbklyn

I was thinking the same thing, wouldn't a fuse in the HID kit blow first? And that is why there are fuses in the car to limit this from happening. This isn't a 1984 dodge aries or something. I would think the ECU fuse would blow before the ECU.

When you get the car back check the battery and it most likely could be a fuse, one member on here has a issue with his TL which would intermittently start and then not start. Turns out it was this battery poles that were lose from the factory, maybe when you installed the fog kit you didn't tighten the battery poles enough.

fusiongt

I mean dealers r that dumb??? XD
So I asked the service manager about my warrenty status from now on then he said "if u can keep your car in stock condition then it should be fine..."

bw5556

So let me get this right...they want you to pay to replace the ECUs because your aftermarket modifications "voided" your warranty and upon removing the aftermarket mods and paying to replace the ECUs your warranty status will no longer be voided?

Well in the words of Big Daddy - "What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?...There ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor of mendacity...You can smell it. It smells like death."

chaiwala

What the dealer is saying is that the HID kit caused it to fry. So if the car was in stock form, this wouldn't happen. So after the car is fixed and he decides to re-install the HID kit and it causes the ECU or anything else to fail and is a direct cause of his modification(HID or anything else)he will endure the same penalty. Happens all the time. I see it more often to know not to mess with modification especially electrical components. They are the most expensive to replace.

bw5556

Wow, I would've never guessed that. In these instances, will they inspect the entire vehicle to ensure there was no other damage caused?

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

... the ECU does have a fuse. it should be a HUGE Blade Fuse in the box under the hood.... Im not 100% sure, but i'll go look at my manual later.

And yea, the fuse should have popped first IMO

chaiwala

What they will do is replace the ECU and if the car functions as it should they will leave it at that as long as it has corrected the problem issues. Then they will make sure all other components are working fine and leave it at that. This is an assumption on my part though.

The one issue I see the most is suspension damage caused by an aggressive set-up of aftermarket wheels and coilovers/springs. When your tires look like / \ you are asking for problems. A lot of people put their car on air suspension too and they frequently cause damage too. I have seen damage up to $5000 once on an agressive dump and wheel combo. I have seen grown men cry literally when they hear the $$.

TechnoCat

Let's be fair to Acura and the dealership... the TL is tied for second most reliable car in it's class according to Consumer Reports. There don't seem to be many reports of the TL spontaneously not starting or of it frying the ECU. So given all that, it does seem to be quite likely that the HID install broke it.

Yeah it's a bummer and an expensive error. Definitely an AFGO. But I don't see how Acura should have to take responsibility for it.

Eli

Yeah, HID lamps aren't some run-of-the-mill plugin light bulb, they require a lot of power to ignite and need a well-regulated power source. I'm sure there's a lot of engineering of the electric system to support the factory HID lamps. Plugging in some aftermarket ones onto a line that isn't designed to support it doesn't seem like a good idea.

dwest1023

All they well regulated power you speak of comes from that box the HIDs comes with. Has nothing to do with the 12 v power from car with is the best regulation you can get(DC Power from the battery).

Dan Martin

Something doesn't add up here... the body is grounded, so a ground wire touching it shouldn't do anything. If it was a positive wire, that would be a different story.

lightjak_tsx

f**** Stealership.... i hate them....

bluenoser

There are a couple of unanswered questions:
1. Was the only ground wire from the HID kit attached to a painted surface?
2. What was the power source for the + wire connection?
3. Is there a fuse on the + power connection - existing or did you install one (from the kit)?
4. Is there a switch to turn the HID kit on/off?
5. Do the fog lights come on during the car starting process?
6. Did the car start at all before you towed it - kick/ sputter/ idle irratically?
7. Was it running OK when you last turned it off?

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

Subscribed. I want to see the answers to blue-nosers questions.