Wavehogger

Ok this is going to be long but hopefully informative...to some here anyway

First off I'm not sure if anyone here has heard of 'dynolicious' if not google it. There are some vids on youtube as well. It's a cool app for the ipod/iphone that basically does what the G-Tech does to record 0-60 1/4 mile g forces etc. If it's set up correctly it produces very accurate results. My friends have used it at the track and 9 times out of 10 it's almost right on.

I did a few runs with my SH-AWD. Not too many it's still breaking in and only has 250 miles on it. So in reality it will get faster as it breaks in and the factory break in oil is changed and replaced with synthetic.

DISCLAIMER- This is not scientific and for entertainment purposes only

1st comment - I have to give credit to Edmunds for mentioning the weird feeling you get when you launch hard, almost only evident when torque loading. The system does take a moment to put the power to the wheels it wants resulting in a slight clunk & delay off the line. It seems that if you launch with a tap on the throttle and then hit it hard, it's much smoother delivery, but not sure how much time it saves, but it feels like it does. (results below do show an improvement)

2nd comment- Sport mode is required to get the best times. When left in D or S without manually shifting it likes to shift early varying between 6300-6500rpm. Having only the 5 speed makes this more critical. If it shifts at 6400 you enter the next gear at about 4500rpm and this is pre-VTEC (4750) and you can feel the loss. However, if you run it to the 6900 cut off it then hit the next gear at just about 5k and you're in the powerband nicely, god the 6 speed would have really helped this factor. So I don't know what Edmund's did to get their times, i'm assuming they redlined it but below I will give some #'s and you can see how they compare to Edmund's.

RESULTS (Temp 43, elevation 500ft, 1/2 tank fuel) I did runs in both directions to average wind and slope. They were practically identical and there was not much wind. NOTE: In S mode 1st gear comes fast and you need to hit the paddle at 6k or you'll bump the limiter.

(Launching in D no torque loading, just pedal to the medal shifts between 6300-6500 rpm and wait it out) Times- (0-60, 1/4 mile): 6.5, 14.9 @ 95.2 mph & 6.35, 14.87 @98.1 mph
(Launching with tap and nail it method (like a rollout) & manual shift at 6900 rpm) Times- 6.1, 14.6 @97.8 mph (did twice almost exactly same)
The dynolicious also measures the estimated HP, and it read between 285-300 HP on the runs, so it's pretty accurate there as well.

NOTE: For those who want the best performance the 6MT is going to be a monster. With tighter ratios and a clutch to launch hard it will significantly improve the times!

First I want to say how PSYCHED I am a bought this car. I love every second i'm in it. I don't really needed to beat a G37 at a light to light. And the real enthusiasts know it's not just what the car is capable of, it's who's driving.

So there you have some unofficial numbers. A little better than Edmund's but very close and I have to say they wrote it up good, just wish they used the G37x for a better showdown. I'm sure this is going to stir up a whole lot of comments, so have fun, be safe, (of course I made all of this up, lol) and feel free to ask me any questions.

sammietime

Thanks for making up all the results! I am holding out for the MT car. My dealer specualted it could be released in the Spring, but he isn't sure. Also, I'm happy to hear you're in love in your car.

mr.Honnda F1

thank you I appreciate what you did that was usefully and interesting read.
Did you switch the traction control off when made those run?

and yes its not all about 0-60

Wavehogger

I did a few test runs with/without the VSA and it doesn't make any difference. When on a dry surface, with good traction, it didn't come into play. Maybe if it had 500HP like a GT-R....

And it's fun to help, I mean make s*it up.

TL|GTX

Wait ur making 300hp at the wheel. I thought it 300 at teh crank, and plus awd making it 258 whp.

Wavehogger

No Dynolicious does the math for you. You input vehicle weight, and percentage of drivetrain loss, then it can calculate the HP. That's why I mentioned it was coming close to the actual HP so my inputs were fairly accurate.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Nice! That hp output is dead-on considering your car is still in the break-in period. I would imagine you can take 0.2s off for 0-60 and the 1/4mile as well as add another 0.5-1mph in the trap speed in the future. I'd also guesstimate that the program will show another 10hp or so.

S2000 Driver

You conducted these tests with the factory HPT/19" alloy wheels, i.e., you have not yet installed the base model all-season tires/17" wheels you purchased, correct?

erick3

that's awesome! lol thanks for the info wave! i've never heard of dynolicious - I'm contemplating the purchase haha
by the way, may I ask you how much you paid for your 4G? looks like the top end model by the look of your avator

Wavehogger

Yes, with the 19's and the real performace people here know that it's going to be faster (in a straight line) with the 17's. And I really am curious to see how much. I'm putting the 17's on this weekend. I'm not going to go into the physics of it but maybe that engineer I see around here would love to give a nice long explanation.

Wavehogger

I also pulled a 5.8 sec 0-60 today, but didn't go the whole 1/4 mile. I was just trying to figure out the best way to launch. It seems it's best to not break torque it and just floor it (which is hard to go against since you would think that's better), but gently at first, not mash the throttle down, it doesn't like that, causing an AWD delay of sorts. I'm really curious to hear some other SH-AWD owners chime in when they start playing around.

Wavehogger

It's in the owners sign in thread here, https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/4g-tl-owners-sign-689080/

rondog

iTrader: (1)

So much for the "take it easy" break in period, lol. I can't wait to test drive the 6mt AWD, and hopefully a blower will be released for it. Now that would be perfect.

Wavehogger

Don't worry I've been driving a lot the past few days and I was past the recommeded break in period. For some strange reason I seem to have so many more things to do than normally.. And it's strange how a 10 minute trip now takes an hour.. damm navi..

steetbach

Nice car and color combination wavehogger! I saw one exactly the same color at the dealership when I was in Framingham having my car serviced. You will have to let us know how the car drives in the snow .Being the old fart that I am,I am probably more concerned about the overall handling of the car then straight line acceleration.How much tighter is the suspension from the base TL.Considering how much the roads suck here in Boston,I don't want to feel every pebble I drive over!

PetesTL

The SH-AWD model comes with the sports suspension. The ride (even with the stock 18's) is firmer than the base model. On the bad pavements here in Chicago, I can feel almost every bump and road imperfection. I wouldn't say the ride is punishing, but still it's best to test drive both models if you any doubts.

Wavehogger

Thanks Steet, I took the demo they have in Fram out right before I bought mine and I was at that dealer yesterday and talked to the salesman there, and there was no other SH-AWD's besides the demo. They were not getting in any Mayan Bronze SH-AWD's, going off his order sheet. Maybe they got in a Mayan non-SH-AWD?

As for the ride, the SH-AWD is firmer, and with the 19" HPT's I have it's surely the roughest combination that you probably wouldn't desire. I should be putting the stock 17" wheels/tires from the regular model on this weekend for the winter, then I can tell you how much difference there is between the regular TL and the SH-AWD with 17's. I did test the regular one out too and yes it was very cushy, but the regular SH-AWD model comes with 18" all seasons and it was a bit firm but not overly rough, maybe only on a rough surfaced road.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

get her on a dynodynamics... that ipod accelerometer is straight guesstimated

Wavehogger

Update: So with about 850 miles now I tried a few 0-60 only runs. I know C&D said they got the best time by full brake torque but I think Edmunds was the only one to get it correct and comment on how it made it actually slower to do that because it does this 'thinking, clunk, delay reaction", if you brake torque. If you just launch normal and shift just before the 6800 limiter it is much better. I'm putting the Dynolicious comparison from my IPHONE here so you can compare. I tried it a few times both ways and it was always better without brake torque. And it was with 1/2 tank fuel, and 25 degrees out, that cold air really makes power. I mean it's over a full second slower when you do it WRONG! So it can move out, but you do have to finesse it just right to get it.

And I've used this Dynolicous at the REAL TRACK! with friends cars, and it's right on the money!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Hey I don't see any comparison diagrams!

PetesTL

Nice job, Wavehogger. Very interesting and intriguing. I wonder how much the performance would be affected in warmer climates.....and as you mentioned before, with stock wheels/tires vs. the 19's. Maybe Motor Trend's estimated time of 5.4 sec (in their First Drive Review) isn't too difficult to believe after all.

S2000 Driver

Very interesting, Wavehogger! Thanks for posting.

Now I wonder what it will do in the 1/4-mile with the proper launch.

Wonder how we can find that out?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Hey, 60' in 2.47s? That's kind of slow. Do you think that can be improved? I don't know much about drag racing, but I've seen 2.1-2.3 in 2g and 3g TL's. Is it because you didn't do the 1ft rollout thing?

Wavehogger

No, it's all because of the computer holding back, either to protect the AWD system or the drivetrain in general. 2.1 sec in a 6MT yes, but not in the 5AT. They want to prevent damage. But look at the slower of the two, when you torque it, it makes it so slow you can actually feel the computer delay the launch, then once you're rolled out for a few feet the computer lets the power come on. I doubt I'll get much better than that, but still it's a damm good 0-60 time, and surprised me. When I saw that time I wished I had been able to run the 1/4, but I'll find some time soon.

S2000 Driver

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

you better find time soon:P I can't wait to see the result.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

5.44... not too shabby

you should get somee 19x9 with 265 tires on there

PetesTL

At some point, though, adding wheels/tires that are too big/wide will just increase drag and rolling resistance to the car which will actually slow the car down. In my opinion, I think the best times might be obtained with the 18's.

Wavehogger

So I had some time off today and put the TL on the dyno, ahem.

The Vids are on my site, http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/6540209_ARAht#415911964_EN4Df

Not much has changed, more confirming previous #'s, One 1/4 mile run, of 14.89 @ 96.9, and the second was the best yet at 14.51 @97.3 mph.

So a few interesting things.

1) If you watch (#16 on my site) you can see that under full brake torque the computer switched the car to 2nd gear and then once it starts rolling it does go back to 1st. Explains the huge delay, and I'll see if there is a way around it later. I only saw it after I watched my own vids. Didn't think to watch it before cause who would think it would change gears when you tell it to be in 1st!

2) If you listen in #18 you can hear and see the slight delay in power when the car shifts out of 2nd. It's at 5K so I doubt its a VTEC thing, must just be the computer. This hurts the 1/4 mile for sure. If it didn't do this it would probably shave a tenth or two off easy.

Overall I'm very happy with the AT cause I didn't want a MT. But for those who want this car more for pure speed... I would guess that the 6MT is going to be even with or slightly quicker than the Type-S (14.1 average time in 1/4) As long as Acura doesn't hold anything back with the MT..

I'll update again when I get my 17's on but FedEx lost one so who knows when that will be..

Wavehogger

Had to run to the store so I looked into #1. It's definetly to protect the tranny. It's signaled by pressing on the brake pedal. If you brake torque over 1300 rpm it switches to 2nd gear and that's what causes the clunk & delay as it shifts back down to 1st. So it's best to launch at about 1200 rpm. I know the BMW 550i does something similar in the AT to protect itself, but it just governs the RPM and doesn't change the gear. Mystery solved.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the videos! They are awesome!

I was going to ask about the delay when shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear, I thought you let go of the gas there. It was very obvious. Did you try a few more times to see if that issue persists? Or do you think it has to do with the fact that your car is still fairly new and the ECU is still under "protection" mode?

Wavehogger

No, I wasn't letting off, but it sounds like it.. and it seems to do it every time, though sometimes more than others. I'm not sure if it will change or not, time will tell. The car runs perfectly otherwise so I doubt there is anything wrong. Hopefully another SH-AWD owner can let me know though.

S2000 Driver

Any update from FedEx on the lost 17-inch tire/wheel?

Wavehogger

I got an e-mail last night saying 'they are pretty sure' it's on its way to a lost and found center in Utah. It may be damaged as well since the packaging came off. I should get it sometime mid/end of the week. Hopefully it only has minor finish damage, which I can live with. They say this happens maybe once every coulple years for something like this, why can't I be so lucky with the lottery.

S2000 Driver

Sorry to hear this, but, better to have 4 wheels, even if one is slightly damaged, than to have 3 wheels -- especially because these are winter wheels and meant to take abuse, e.g., road salt, potholes, etc., anyway.

Still, sucks that this happened to you.

At least I hope you got them for a good price which will help take some of the 'sting' out of this unfortunate situation.

Wavehogger

Yeah it was a good price ($1000 w/shipping) so I think it will fine. I don't really care if one doesn't look perfect for the winter. Just hoping it acutally has been found and will get to me soon, not counting my chickens yet.

Wavehogger

So I have the final scoop on the above situation. I have been informed (very credible Acura Source) that because the 3.7L (J37A4) engines now have VTEC on both intake and exhaust display an audible sound as the VTEC change is heard more. So upon further testing I also noted that you can also hear and feel this not only after a gear change where the RPM's drop to just below the 5K or right at 5K, but if you hold the car in S mode in say 2nd or 3rd gear and accelerate from 4K up you can always hear and feel this VTEC switch, it's a bit of an odd sensation. From what I'm being told it is because both the intake and exhaust VTEC switch is happening in whatever sequence the engineers have designed, and it has this minor nuance as it occurs. It's not as noticeable in 1st gear because the gear ratio is lower and it's a faster change over, but it is more noticeable as you go higher in the gears where the switchover is slower.

The base TL doesn't have the VTEC on the exhaust side so you won't notice it at all in that car. And Edmund's (I think it was them) said the base TL was a tick faster than the SH-AWD. I will bet that's because you can brake torque the FWD TL and it won't switch to 2nd gear, like I have described in another thread, as it will in the SH-AWD. They obviously are trying to protect the AWD system from stress off the line. So I would bet if you launch the SH-AWD keeping the rpm below 1300 so it remains in 1st it should be quicker than the FWD TL. I drove the FWD many times and it surely doesn't have the quickness as the AWD and the gearing isn't as low in the first 3 gears.

I'm not a Mech engineer like iforyou, his technical explanations are awesome and he does them throughout the entire forum. But I do like to get to the bottom of these things, it's interesting. I think I would of enjoyed that field.

Anyway, I hope this isn't too confusing. Many here may not care about my regarding all this, but hopefully a few will.

PetesTL

Hey, Wavehogger, I look forward to your "experiments" on a daily basis now....I have a much greater understanding and appreciation of what my car can do now thanks to you. This is why I joined Acurazine in the first place. Among all the hate crap littering this board on a daily basis, your stuff is truly a breath of fresh air. Job well done!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

wavehogger, do you mean you can hear two changes happening from 4000rpm to the redline? One being the intake, and the other being the exhaust?

Thanks for the compliment by the way lol but I'm still a student at this moment.

Wavehogger

I've read a lot of your tech talk, you're welcome. I'll clear up what I was saying but first I'll post a few paragraphs from Acura Media Room.

The 3.7-liter engine in the TL SH-AWD® features a further refined version of the Acura VTEC® system, which made its sedan debut on the 2009 RL. This system provides two-mode control of the exhaust as well as the intake valves, so all 24 of the engine's valves are VTEC® controlled. Moreover,
operation of all the engine's valves are controlled for optimal volumetric efficiency, air/fuel mixing, burn rate, and exhaust flow.

The big 3.7-liter engine has the same VTEC® intake valve control system as the 3.5-liter engine, but adds a unique new multi-arm VTEC® rocker arm system for the exhaust valves. Both exhaust valves follow a single low-lift, short-duration cam profile at low engine rpm. As the revs rise, pressurized oil
(controlled by the PCM) activates small pistons that locks the exhaust valve rocker to a corresponding high-speed rocker arm, which then follows a single high-lift, long-duration cam lobe.

On the 3.7-liter engine, the transition to high-speed mode occurs at 4,700 rpm, where intake valve lift increases 28-percent and exhaust valve lift increases 10-percent. Valve opening duration increases 35-percent on the intake side and 11-percent on the exhaust side, increasing valve overlap by 47-percent over the intake-only VTEC® system. The new VTEC® system provides more power and torque, improved emissions and better fuel economy. Plus, the new VTEC® hardware offers greater durability
and features roller cam followers to decrease frictional losses.

Then it also has this going on:

2-PIECE DUAL-STAGE INTAKE MANIFOLD

Both TL models feature a dual-stage intake manifold made from lightweight magnesium. The manifold works together with VTEC® to improve low-speed torque with no sacrifice in high-rpm power. Divided into two banks feeding three cylinders per bank, the manifold has two Powertrain Control Module controlled butterfly valves located between each bank. These valves are closed at low engine speed, which reduces the operating volume of the plenum and increases the effective length of the inlet passages. The result is maximum resonance effect and amplification of pressure waves within each half of the manifold at lower engine speeds, significantly increasing cylinder filling and thus low rpm torque. The open ends of the intake runners are also flared into a "trumpet" shape, as on racing engines, to further improve airflow.

At higher engine speeds (3,950 rpm with the 3.5-liter, and 4,000 rpm with the 3.7-liter) the butterfly valves open, connecting the two halves of the manifold, increasing its effective volume and increasing the mass of air rushing down each intake passage. The inertia of this increased air mass forces more charge into each cylinder for better cylinder filling, increasing torque at high rpm. The manifold's two modes further complement the changes in low and high speed running made possible by the VTEC®
system. Both the 3.5-liter and 3.7-liter intake manifolds are fitted with a specially-cast top plate featuring a machined Acura logo.



So with all this happening simultaneously you get this brief weird sound/feeling which happens right after the change begins. It's probably because of the massive change in valve overlap coming on all at once, and the intake manifold changing over. But damm it feels and sounds so sweet after that 5K switch.