Supercharged 2010 TL-SH-AWD 6-speed
03-26-2010 | 06:42 AM
#81
Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 618
Likes: 8
From: New York
I agree with most of you guys in the previous posts. I have a 6MT type-s and my previous TL was also 6MT. People that buy a manual over an auto are your most likely demographic for a supercharger. I also work for honda and whenevr someone comes in and orders a manual, u usually know the kind of individual youre dealing with. Manual drivers actually enjoy driving and arent the "point A to B type guys" hence their choice in transmission. However, from a business standpoint, they better make sure they make it compatible for the 5AT because 95%+ sold are autos. Some people actually buy autos because its more convenient for them, they do a lot of driving in heavily congested areas or their wife cant drive a stick and theyre being considerate. Not all auto drivers are non-enthusiasts who cant drive a stick. SO i say they make sure its reliable with both transmission offerings and for that matter, engine types too. Its only good business sense.
03-26-2010 | 07:18 AM
#82
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
I agree with most of you guys in the previous posts. I have a 6MT type-s and my previous TL was also 6MT. People that buy a manual over an auto are your most likely demographic for a supercharger. I also work for honda and whenevr someone comes in and orders a manual, u usually know the kind of individual youre dealing with. Manual drivers actually enjoy driving and arent the "point A to B type guys" hence their choice in transmission. However, from a business standpoint, they better make sure they make it compatible for the 5AT because 95%+ sold are autos. Some people actually buy autos because its more convenient for them, they do a lot of driving in heavily congested areas or their wife cant drive a stick and theyre being considerate. Not all auto drivers are non-enthusiasts who cant drive a stick. SO i say they make sure its reliable with both transmission offerings and for that matter, engine types too. Its only good business sense.
We got an 09 so we obviously had no other option. But truth be told we would have went with the AT anyway....even though the wife and I both learned to drive on manual transmissions, living in the DC/MD/VA area I hate constantly shifting. Plus how am I supposed to text and drive if I am constantly shifting? haha jk
03-26-2010 | 07:41 AM
#83
I agree with most of you guys in the previous posts. I have a 6MT type-s and my previous TL was also 6MT. People that buy a manual over an auto are your most likely demographic for a supercharger. I also work for honda and whenevr someone comes in and orders a manual, u usually know the kind of individual youre dealing with. Manual drivers actually enjoy driving and arent the "point A to B type guys" hence their choice in transmission. However, from a business standpoint, they better make sure they make it compatible for the 5AT because 95%+ sold are autos. Some people actually buy autos because its more convenient for them, they do a lot of driving in heavily congested areas or their wife cant drive a stick and theyre being considerate. Not all auto drivers are non-enthusiasts who cant drive a stick. SO i say they make sure its reliable with both transmission offerings and for that matter, engine types too. Its only good business sense.
Great Post
We got an 09 so we obviously had no other option. But truth be told we would have went with the AT anyway....even though the wife and I both learned to drive on manual transmissions, living in the DC/MD/VA area I hate constantly shifting. Plus how am I supposed to text and drive if I am constantly shifting? haha jk
We got an 09 so we obviously had no other option. But truth be told we would have went with the AT anyway....even though the wife and I both learned to drive on manual transmissions, living in the DC/MD/VA area I hate constantly shifting. Plus how am I supposed to text and drive if I am constantly shifting? haha jk
I do agree a higher percentage of manual transmission owners may purchase a supercharger.
But I still believe a higher number of automatic owners may purchase a supercharger based on sheer numbers, although the ratio compared to manual may be lower.
03-26-2010 | 09:00 AM
#84
03-26-2010 | 09:58 AM
#85
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 88,888
Likes: 11,843
From: Waffles, BU
Rob,
Details about the tune & package would be greatly appreciated since the last CTE kit for the 3G TL was bending more rods than a bass fishing competition... I'm hoping that this time around they'd add meth injection, a boost controller & knock monitoring system. The half-ass kit before was garbage and it would be sad if owners who bought the S/C had to shell out another ~7k to get it tuned properly.
Piggyback AEM FI/C is doing well on the 3G turbo tl and it's not the TC that's the issue.. It's the hydraulic pressure to the gears. Unless the solenoids & accumulators are engaged to a higher line pressure, the AT probably won't survive long with boost. Beware of aftermarket clutch kits.. 3G is still trying to figure that one out after numerous failures.
The crank on the J can hold decent power +450whp no problem. The main issues to be aware of is the ringlands and the forged rods. Although the rods are forged they're done so more for weight reduction than strength. The top ringland is fairly close to the piston head and may not survive a preignition incident under boost, which is why meth injection & knock monitoring is important for the J. What will be new to you guys is how your rear diff will hold up.. not something that you want to mess up.. talk about a PITA to replace.
I think CTE is probably aware that the AT on the TL is not meant for more than stock power.
Turbo lag isn't related to the size of the turbo. The relationship is between the exhaust pressure to turbo and the time it takes the exhaust pressure to spool the turbo and supply boost.. Several factors to consider from the port sizes to the location of the turbo.. The size of the turbo is more related to the amount of boost you're capable of but even that argument is becoming less valid. Also.. less HP/TQ that you mention with a s/c is related to it's relative mass and drivetrain loss since it's belt driven.. definitely no NOS.. BooM! is right.. 
Details about the tune & package would be greatly appreciated since the last CTE kit for the 3G TL was bending more rods than a bass fishing competition... I'm hoping that this time around they'd add meth injection, a boost controller & knock monitoring system. The half-ass kit before was garbage and it would be sad if owners who bought the S/C had to shell out another ~7k to get it tuned properly.
After my experiences with upgrading performance on cars, I just have to point out that automatic transmission cars are rarely the ones that aftermarket companies develop serious power adders for. The only exception are cars that have tuning companies make tuners that can reflash a computer through the on-board diagnostic ports and such. Obviously, the TL does not have that kind of support.
On top of that, performance torque convertors are probably twice as expensive and probably 10 times harder to find than an upgraded aftermarket clutch.
On top of that, performance torque convertors are probably twice as expensive and probably 10 times harder to find than an upgraded aftermarket clutch.
Coming from a Honda Prelude with the first "SH" moniker appeared, here is something the Prelude community has found out about the ATTS (active-torque transfer system) unit...
The Prelude was rated at 200hp to the crank. Take in a typical drivetrain loss of 11% at the wheels for FWD cars, hell, let's make it 20% for reality's sake, and you'd get 180 wheel horsepower.
It's well known for those that used piggyback tuning systems (that allowed for ATTS to still work) that ATTS would continue to function up to 235whp or 200ft/lb of torque. Ironically, this is the power level that Jackson Racing made their bolt-on supercharger peak at. If you surpass that whp mark, it's widely known that ATTS stops functioning and just acts like an open differential. The sensors sensing all of the torque will also throw a code.
So let's take the HP level increase from 180 to 235 and you'll see it's roughly 31% increase in power before it starts to develop problems.
Now if we apply that to this Comptech Supercharger being used on the SH-AWD drivetrain, we can estimate that:
230whp (what I estimate the 3.7L AWD to produce to the wheels) x 31% = ~70whp
I therefore deduce that the SH-AWD drivetrain can handle at least 300whp before you can expect to encounter gremlins with the whole system.
Of course, there are other things to consider such as the law of diminishing returns, the fact that this drivetrain might be engineered more robustly, the fact that not all TL's have the same exact WHP from the factory, and also the fact that an AWD drivetrain means it could handle more power due to more wheels driving it.
Just thought I'd share my perspective!
The Prelude was rated at 200hp to the crank. Take in a typical drivetrain loss of 11% at the wheels for FWD cars, hell, let's make it 20% for reality's sake, and you'd get 180 wheel horsepower.
It's well known for those that used piggyback tuning systems (that allowed for ATTS to still work) that ATTS would continue to function up to 235whp or 200ft/lb of torque. Ironically, this is the power level that Jackson Racing made their bolt-on supercharger peak at. If you surpass that whp mark, it's widely known that ATTS stops functioning and just acts like an open differential. The sensors sensing all of the torque will also throw a code.
So let's take the HP level increase from 180 to 235 and you'll see it's roughly 31% increase in power before it starts to develop problems.
Now if we apply that to this Comptech Supercharger being used on the SH-AWD drivetrain, we can estimate that:
230whp (what I estimate the 3.7L AWD to produce to the wheels) x 31% = ~70whp
I therefore deduce that the SH-AWD drivetrain can handle at least 300whp before you can expect to encounter gremlins with the whole system.
Of course, there are other things to consider such as the law of diminishing returns, the fact that this drivetrain might be engineered more robustly, the fact that not all TL's have the same exact WHP from the factory, and also the fact that an AWD drivetrain means it could handle more power due to more wheels driving it.
Just thought I'd share my perspective!
The crank on the J can hold decent power +450whp no problem. The main issues to be aware of is the ringlands and the forged rods. Although the rods are forged they're done so more for weight reduction than strength. The top ringland is fairly close to the piston head and may not survive a preignition incident under boost, which is why meth injection & knock monitoring is important for the J. What will be new to you guys is how your rear diff will hold up.. not something that you want to mess up.. talk about a PITA to replace.
Last edited by Majofo; 03-26-2010 at 10:02 AM.
03-26-2010 | 02:11 PM
#86
Colorado Springs
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 733
Likes: 40
The crank on the J can hold decent power +450whp no problem. The main issues to be aware of is the ringlands and the forged rods. Although the rods are forged they're done so more for weight reduction than strength. The top ringland is fairly close to the piston head and may not survive a preignition incident under boost, which is why meth injection & knock monitoring is important for the J. What will be new to you guys is how your rear diff will hold up.. not something that you want to mess up.. talk about a PITA to replace.
The point I was trying to make, though, was the clutch packs in both the front and rear ATTS units (is it still called ATTS? The concept is the same though!) are only going to take so much WHP before they start to slip and you will lose power to your wheels or worse, break something.
This ATTS unit(s) use tiny clutches similar to a version of a limited slip differential (perhaps I'm thinking of helical?) where automatic transmission fluid is circulated around these tiny clutches. I believe the sensors that are telling how much torque and to what wheel to send that power to, will make more or less of the tiny clutches engage on that particular front/back/side wheel. This is how they got it to vector the torque to the wheel that needs it or can use it the best.
03-26-2010 | 02:24 PM
#87
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 88,888
Likes: 11,843
From: Waffles, BU
The point I was trying to make, though, was the clutch packs in both the front and rear ATTS units (is it still called ATTS? The concept is the same though!) are only going to take so much WHP before they start to slip and you will lose power to your wheels or worse, break something.
This ATTS unit(s) use tiny clutches similar to a version of a limited slip differential (perhaps I'm thinking of helical?) where automatic transmission fluid is circulated around these tiny clutches. I believe the sensors that are telling how much torque and to what wheel to send that power to, will make more or less of the tiny clutches engage on that particular front/back/side wheel. This is how they got it to vector the torque to the wheel that needs it or can use it the best.
This ATTS unit(s) use tiny clutches similar to a version of a limited slip differential (perhaps I'm thinking of helical?) where automatic transmission fluid is circulated around these tiny clutches. I believe the sensors that are telling how much torque and to what wheel to send that power to, will make more or less of the tiny clutches engage on that particular front/back/side wheel. This is how they got it to vector the torque to the wheel that needs it or can use it the best.
03-26-2010 | 03:46 PM
#88
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 127
Likes: 1
The point I was trying to make, though, was the clutch packs in both the front and rear ATTS units (is it still called ATTS? The concept is the same though!) are only going to take so much WHP before they start to slip and you will lose power to your wheels or worse, break something.
This ATTS unit(s) use tiny clutches similar to a version of a limited slip differential (perhaps I'm thinking of helical?) where automatic transmission fluid is circulated around these tiny clutches. I believe the sensors that are telling how much torque and to what wheel to send that power to, will make more or less of the tiny clutches engage on that particular front/back/side wheel. This is how they got it to vector the torque to the wheel that needs it or can use it the best.
This ATTS unit(s) use tiny clutches similar to a version of a limited slip differential (perhaps I'm thinking of helical?) where automatic transmission fluid is circulated around these tiny clutches. I believe the sensors that are telling how much torque and to what wheel to send that power to, will make more or less of the tiny clutches engage on that particular front/back/side wheel. This is how they got it to vector the torque to the wheel that needs it or can use it the best.
Based on the wiki, it would appear that SH-AWD is a successor to ATTS using more sophisticated controls of the electromagnetic clutches.
It doesn't appear to be public information as to what the maximum torque capacity of SH-AWD would be.
03-26-2010 | 08:53 PM
#89
Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 618
Likes: 8
From: New York
As for me......i already have a 400+ whp turbo accord and wont be doing any of those mods to my TL. The only mods i might do when i get the 6MT SHAWD, is a drop and some decent wheels. I like having at least one car where i can do a 6 hour drive and not worry about ANYTHING but the damn highway patrol! My accord is boosted on its 3rd turbo setup now running a GT35R turbine and its a monster, but i never have that piece of mind driving it. I was one of the first guys to boost a 4 door accord back in the day and i had to learn from trial and error but these days with the 35r, DR's up front and a Quaife LSD its a blast to drive especially since it isnt my daily driver anymore.
03-27-2010 | 01:24 AM
#90
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 127
Likes: 1
As for me......i already have a 400+ whp turbo accord and wont be doing any of those mods to my TL. The only mods i might do when i get the 6MT SHAWD, is a drop and some decent wheels. I like having at least one car where i can do a 6 hour drive and not worry about ANYTHING but the damn highway patrol! My accord is boosted on its 3rd turbo setup now running a GT35R turbine and its a monster, but i never have that piece of mind driving it. I was one of the first guys to boost a 4 door accord back in the day and i had to learn from trial and error but these days with the 35r, DR's up front and a Quaife LSD its a blast to drive especially since it isnt my daily driver anymore.
03-27-2010 | 05:40 AM
#91
Pro
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 565
Likes: 3
From: Trois-Rivieres, Quebec
I agree with most of you guys in the previous posts. I have a 6MT type-s and my previous TL was also 6MT. People that buy a manual over an auto are your most likely demographic for a supercharger. I also work for honda and whenevr someone comes in and orders a manual, u usually know the kind of individual youre dealing with. Manual drivers actually enjoy driving and arent the "point A to B type guys" hence their choice in transmission. However, from a business standpoint, they better make sure they make it compatible for the 5AT because 95%+ sold are autos. Some people actually buy autos because its more convenient for them, they do a lot of driving in heavily congested areas or their wife cant drive a stick and theyre being considerate. Not all auto drivers are non-enthusiasts who cant drive a stick. SO i say they make sure its reliable with both transmission offerings and for that matter, engine types too. Its only good business sense.
But I greatly enjoy driving and I would have appreciated to have a manual mode that shifts using the shifter, not the paddles as they are stuck to the steering wheel. It gets a little hard to use when you take a pronounced curve...
04-16-2010 | 01:25 AM
#94
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,163
Likes: 7
From: Seattle, Washington
Great Post
We got an 09 so we obviously had no other option. But truth be told we would have went with the AT anyway....even though the wife and I both learned to drive on manual transmissions, living in the DC/MD/VA area I hate constantly shifting. Plus how am I supposed to text and drive if I am constantly shifting? haha jk
We got an 09 so we obviously had no other option. But truth be told we would have went with the AT anyway....even though the wife and I both learned to drive on manual transmissions, living in the DC/MD/VA area I hate constantly shifting. Plus how am I supposed to text and drive if I am constantly shifting? haha jk
eeekkk! haha
05-02-2010 | 04:49 PM
#99
Cruisin'
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
Edit by Admin Ron A:
Welcome to the forums.
I moved your other post to the Tires & Wheels subforum, which is the proper place for it.
Click on this link and it will take you to the thread. https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-tires-wheels-suspension-298/tpms-problems-asanti-rims-774642/
Welcome to the forums.
I moved your other post to the Tires & Wheels subforum, which is the proper place for it.
Click on this link and it will take you to the thread. https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-tires-wheels-suspension-298/tpms-problems-asanti-rims-774642/
05-14-2010 | 10:43 PM
#102
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,112
Likes: 103
making a s/c for the TL is not worth it if you are concerned with making the most out of your money/time/etc.
for the $$ it would cost to buy a kit, get it installed, etc - you might as well just buy a better/faster car.
the TL is a great car - but if you want 400+ hp, why not get a CPO RS4 or something in that price point / power level???
for what you'd spend on a new TL SH-AWD and s/c and other supporting mods, you coudl have a CPO RS4. and that car woudln't need any m ods.. bone stock it kicks a$$.
if you want something unique that no one else has and enjoy tuning your car, then go for it. a s/c TL would be unique...and there is some intrinsic pleasure in making your car special and fixing it up - i've been there done that and spend $10k fixing up a former sports sedan...it was an amazing/awesome car - but in the end, it became *too* unique, and was sometime sa PITA...and I got tired of that aspect of it.
having been down that road - i'd much rather spend more money up front, get a car with the power/performance I want out of the box. There are plenty of cars that come from teh factory with amazing performance.. think 911, M5, M3, RS4.. yeah they cost..but you get what you pay for.
for the $$ it would cost to buy a kit, get it installed, etc - you might as well just buy a better/faster car.
the TL is a great car - but if you want 400+ hp, why not get a CPO RS4 or something in that price point / power level???
for what you'd spend on a new TL SH-AWD and s/c and other supporting mods, you coudl have a CPO RS4. and that car woudln't need any m ods.. bone stock it kicks a$$.
if you want something unique that no one else has and enjoy tuning your car, then go for it. a s/c TL would be unique...and there is some intrinsic pleasure in making your car special and fixing it up - i've been there done that and spend $10k fixing up a former sports sedan...it was an amazing/awesome car - but in the end, it became *too* unique, and was sometime sa PITA...and I got tired of that aspect of it.
having been down that road - i'd much rather spend more money up front, get a car with the power/performance I want out of the box. There are plenty of cars that come from teh factory with amazing performance.. think 911, M5, M3, RS4.. yeah they cost..but you get what you pay for.
05-15-2010 | 02:27 PM
#103
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: RI
Opinions
making a s/c for the TL is not worth it if you are concerned with making the most out of your money/time/etc.
for the $$ it would cost to buy a kit, get it installed, etc - you might as well just buy a better/faster car.
the TL is a great car - but if you want 400+ hp, why not get a CPO RS4 or something in that price point / power level???
for what you'd spend on a new TL SH-AWD and s/c and other supporting mods, you coudl have a CPO RS4. and that car woudln't need any m ods.. bone stock it kicks a$$.
if you want something unique that no one else has and enjoy tuning your car, then go for it. a s/c TL would be unique...and there is some intrinsic pleasure in making your car special and fixing it up - i've been there done that and spend $10k fixing up a former sports sedan...it was an amazing/awesome car - but in the end, it became *too* unique, and was sometime sa PITA...and I got tired of that aspect of it.
having been down that road - i'd much rather spend more money up front, get a car with the power/performance I want out of the box. There are plenty of cars that come from teh factory with amazing performance.. think 911, M5, M3, RS4.. yeah they cost..but you get what you pay for.
for the $$ it would cost to buy a kit, get it installed, etc - you might as well just buy a better/faster car.
the TL is a great car - but if you want 400+ hp, why not get a CPO RS4 or something in that price point / power level???
for what you'd spend on a new TL SH-AWD and s/c and other supporting mods, you coudl have a CPO RS4. and that car woudln't need any m ods.. bone stock it kicks a$$.
if you want something unique that no one else has and enjoy tuning your car, then go for it. a s/c TL would be unique...and there is some intrinsic pleasure in making your car special and fixing it up - i've been there done that and spend $10k fixing up a former sports sedan...it was an amazing/awesome car - but in the end, it became *too* unique, and was sometime sa PITA...and I got tired of that aspect of it.
having been down that road - i'd much rather spend more money up front, get a car with the power/performance I want out of the box. There are plenty of cars that come from teh factory with amazing performance.. think 911, M5, M3, RS4.. yeah they cost..but you get what you pay for.
05-15-2010 | 09:17 PM
#104
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 88,888
Likes: 11,843
From: Waffles, BU
Nothing's reasonably priced when it comes to FI on a car that wasn't designed for it. The kit might be reasonably priced but that's only a fraction of what you're potentially liable for to keep it running.
05-17-2010 | 11:29 AM
#106
Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 618
Likes: 8
From: New York
05-20-2010 | 05:10 AM
#107
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
I doubt anyone will make actual HP/TQ gains without dyno graphs to prove it; America is litigious as heck about false advertising.
AT is going to be a tough one. Do you know what type of torque converter is in there? The torque converter (along with everything downstream of it) is going to be the weak link in the system beyond a certain torque output.
ATs have been much harder to mod on other cars, mostly due to the lack of suitable torque converter upgrades. At high enough TQ levels (maybe >50% over stock), think about the entire drivetrain:
Torque converter (AT) / Clutch (MT)
Transmission
Transfer case
Half shafts (front)
Differential (front)
Drive shaft
Differential (rear - where the magic torque vectoring lives)
Half shafts (rear)
Remember your brakes, too.
AT is going to be a tough one. Do you know what type of torque converter is in there? The torque converter (along with everything downstream of it) is going to be the weak link in the system beyond a certain torque output.
ATs have been much harder to mod on other cars, mostly due to the lack of suitable torque converter upgrades. At high enough TQ levels (maybe >50% over stock), think about the entire drivetrain:
Torque converter (AT) / Clutch (MT)
Transmission
Transfer case
Half shafts (front)
Differential (front)
Drive shaft
Differential (rear - where the magic torque vectoring lives)
Half shafts (rear)
Remember your brakes, too.
05-20-2010 | 10:43 AM
#108
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 127
Likes: 1
I doubt anyone will make actual HP/TQ gains without dyno graphs to prove it; America is litigious as heck about false advertising.
AT is going to be a tough one. Do you know what type of torque converter is in there? The torque converter (along with everything downstream of it) is going to be the weak link in the system beyond a certain torque output.
ATs have been much harder to mod on other cars, mostly due to the lack of suitable torque converter upgrades. At high enough TQ levels (maybe >50% over stock), think about the entire drivetrain:
Torque converter (AT) / Clutch (MT)
Transmission
Transfer case
Half shafts (front)
Differential (front)
Drive shaft
Differential (rear - where the magic torque vectoring lives)
Half shafts (rear)
Remember your brakes, too.
AT is going to be a tough one. Do you know what type of torque converter is in there? The torque converter (along with everything downstream of it) is going to be the weak link in the system beyond a certain torque output.
ATs have been much harder to mod on other cars, mostly due to the lack of suitable torque converter upgrades. At high enough TQ levels (maybe >50% over stock), think about the entire drivetrain:
Torque converter (AT) / Clutch (MT)
Transmission
Transfer case
Half shafts (front)
Differential (front)
Drive shaft
Differential (rear - where the magic torque vectoring lives)
Half shafts (rear)
Remember your brakes, too.
05-22-2010 | 12:56 AM
#110
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 127
Likes: 1
Still cheaper than buying a new S4 and having all sorts of stuff break on it within 10K miles (water pumps, mostly) and dealing with potential intake manifold/valve buildup over the life of the vehicle. Not to mention the horrendous depreciation - there's a reason for that. Rob, please tell me you've got this supercharger worked out?
05-25-2010 | 10:50 PM
#112
Cruisin'
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
I am in. The only thing my brand-new baby needs is a little more grunt in the low end. The "perfect" sports sedan gets "perfect-er!"
Re S4, don't do it. Save up another 10-15k and get an M3 (or stripper Cayman/Boxster depending on your need for rear seats). If you can afford the S4, you're almost to the next tier anyway. Otherwise, I can personally recommend the '10 TL SH-AWD 6MT Tech HPT (a mouthful, no doubt) for 15k less. Plus, TL = Honda and S4 = VW and believe me, after 10 years maintaining a GTI, there is a difference. I could have bought two Civic Si's for the price of my GTI if you include cost-of-ownership.
Btw, I have found that supercharging the TL with tech package really not necessary once you figure out how to direct the ELS stereo's subwoofers towards the back of the vehicle. Just drive with the trunk open and some metal cranked to 40! Guaranteed sub-5 0-60!
Re S4, don't do it. Save up another 10-15k and get an M3 (or stripper Cayman/Boxster depending on your need for rear seats). If you can afford the S4, you're almost to the next tier anyway. Otherwise, I can personally recommend the '10 TL SH-AWD 6MT Tech HPT (a mouthful, no doubt) for 15k less. Plus, TL = Honda and S4 = VW and believe me, after 10 years maintaining a GTI, there is a difference. I could have bought two Civic Si's for the price of my GTI if you include cost-of-ownership.
Btw, I have found that supercharging the TL with tech package really not necessary once you figure out how to direct the ELS stereo's subwoofers towards the back of the vehicle. Just drive with the trunk open and some metal cranked to 40! Guaranteed sub-5 0-60!
05-25-2010 | 11:59 PM
#113
I am in. The only thing my brand-new baby needs is a little more grunt in the low end. The "perfect" sports sedan gets "perfect-er!"
Re S4, don't do it. Save up another 10-15k and get an M3 (or stripper Cayman/Boxster depending on your need for rear seats). If you can afford the S4, you're almost to the next tier anyway. Otherwise, I can personally recommend the '10 TL SH-AWD 6MT Tech HPT (a mouthful, no doubt) for 15k less. Plus, TL = Honda and S4 = VW and believe me, after 10 years maintaining a GTI, there is a difference. I could have bought two Civic Si's for the price of my GTI if you include cost-of-ownership.
Btw, I have found that supercharging the TL with tech package really not necessary once you figure out how to direct the ELS stereo's subwoofers towards the back of the vehicle. Just drive with the trunk open and some metal cranked to 40! Guaranteed sub-5 0-60!
Re S4, don't do it. Save up another 10-15k and get an M3 (or stripper Cayman/Boxster depending on your need for rear seats). If you can afford the S4, you're almost to the next tier anyway. Otherwise, I can personally recommend the '10 TL SH-AWD 6MT Tech HPT (a mouthful, no doubt) for 15k less. Plus, TL = Honda and S4 = VW and believe me, after 10 years maintaining a GTI, there is a difference. I could have bought two Civic Si's for the price of my GTI if you include cost-of-ownership.
Btw, I have found that supercharging the TL with tech package really not necessary once you figure out how to direct the ELS stereo's subwoofers towards the back of the vehicle. Just drive with the trunk open and some metal cranked to 40! Guaranteed sub-5 0-60!
Awesome first post. You've successfully steered me away from GTI's.
05-26-2010 | 02:54 AM
#114
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 127
Likes: 1
Why don't Honda engines make a lot of torque down low? Technical curiosity more than anything else right now.
We can discount anything that's less than 3.0L in displacement - there really isn't any replacement for displacement below 2,000 RPMs.
The J37A4 is a 3.7L V-6 with a sophisticated SOHC system that allows for different cam timing and lift on both intake and exhaust cams so what's the deal?
Someone please educate me?
We can discount anything that's less than 3.0L in displacement - there really isn't any replacement for displacement below 2,000 RPMs.
The J37A4 is a 3.7L V-6 with a sophisticated SOHC system that allows for different cam timing and lift on both intake and exhaust cams so what's the deal?
Someone please educate me?
05-26-2010 | 12:00 PM
#115
Cruisin'
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Thanks! It would have to be a pretty special car to ever get me to buy VAG again. My brother and I were both VW guys, and now he drives Mopar and I go Honda/Acura. Maintenance costs are just the absolute suck.
05-26-2010 | 01:39 PM
#116
Racer
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 434
Likes: 4
From: Pacific NorthWe(s)t
Still cheaper than buying a new S4 and having all sorts of stuff break on it within 10K miles (water pumps, mostly) and dealing with potential intake manifold/valve buildup over the life of the vehicle. Not to mention the horrendous depreciation - there's a reason for that. Rob, please tell me you've got this supercharger worked out?
And it didn't depreciate too badly, although of course the Acura will depreciate less. But it also cost 10% more new a decade ago than my TL SH-AWD 6MT does now.
05-26-2010 | 11:50 PM
#117
Mademoiselle Chanel!!
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 43
From: GA
I know VW/Audi has been having some major quality issues for sometime now. That has kept me from purchasing a VW/Audi product again. In the case of Auto vs Manual...after driving in metro areas and looking to move back I went Auto. Love a stick shift, however in NY/DC and even ATL traffic it's a daunting thing. I can recall cramping up on a trip from Philly to DC to NY...Charlie horses and right arm cramps,whew!
