Mina_Bekhit

Hi everyone, I have some kind of a silly question. I have a 2013 TL AWD. I have a limited budget around $500 to spend in a car mod. I'm looking into one of the following options:
1. Buying rv6 jpipe that eliminate the 3rd cat. Or:
2. Buy the ktuner and install the base map in a completey stock car.

I know these 2 mods can not be compared but as I said I have a limited budget.

is the performance gain can be noticed by either of these mods or it's just a placebo effect? Your help is appreciated.

dopeboy1

I would go with the jpipe. As I understand it, theres very little to be gained from adding ktuner to a stock car. The jpipe on the other hand should make a small but noticeable difference.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

Agree with dopeboy. I personally waited on Ktuner until nearly the end of bolt-ons. At the least, I'd do the Jpipe and either HFPC's/PCD's before Ktuner since there's a base map included that is based on those mods. You'll also see a larger gain with those bolt ons that Ktuner alone. Ktuner was probably equivalent to those mods (with a custom tune that is....) once I already had the bolt ons so I'd highly recommend it once you're at that point.

And maybe you're already aware of this, but when you decide to get a custom tune, make sure you've finished modding the engine since the custom tune will be based on all the technical changes made to the engine. If you mod afterward, you'll be messing up the custom tune and will ideally need another one, which most tuners consider a completely new tune and the price that comes with it.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

now that I am tuned; I think the opposite.
in the past, we didn't have anyway of tuning...so the only thing to do was to add bolt-ons.

sure, the bolt-ons are immediate power gainers..like the jpipe for example...
however, the tune will improve on driveability. you'll get better fuel mileage and most important of all, no knock.

to take advantage of the jpipe; one would need to drive in vtec, as that's where the powerband is.
the tune will give you an advantage at all RPMS.

it's like the chicken vs the egg question..which one comes firsT?
all we know is that if you do one, you'll have to do the other!
get both, eventually when funds allow!

*when I speak of a tune, i'm speaking about a custom tune, not the basemap.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

The only problem with that is the cost though. You'd have to pay up front, then pay again when you've modded. Maybe I'm just a cheapskate but I don't want to do it twice - unless I'm doing some serious modding like adding a super/turbocharger which I highly doubt I'll ever do with a FWD, glass transmission car like the TL.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

i'm using an "E-tuner" who gives lifetime updates...mod the car, send new log, get new map!

agreed on if tuning by dyno, then you would have to pay each time for dyno runs and tuning time.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

Ah, that's a good deal then. My etuner gives a discount for a subsequent tunes but there's still a charge.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Also, if modding the catalytic converters to either pre-cat deletes or high flow cats, you'll be running super lean.
a tune can fix this.

Mina_Bekhit

Thank you all for the immediate feedback. I didn't expect it to be that quick.

Regarding having all the available mods before tuning, I think the following:
Jpipe gain from rv6 web site dyno sheet is 16hp and 10lb.ft tq. It's also an easy install
HFPC gain is 16hp and 10lb.ft tq
When combining the above two mods, there it's still 10 lb.ft tq gain. Then what is the point of having HFPC?
Regarding having muffler delete or custom exhaust, I don't like that because of adding noise which I don't like.
Regarding using light weight pulley, I understand what it does engineering wise with pushing less inertia for the pulley, but I don't think there will be any performance gain.
SRI from my reading everyone is saying the OEM design for the intake is better than the SRI.

That will only lead to the J pipe mod which is the best for the money. Please guys light me know if I'm missing something and forgive my limited knowledge.

Regarding having the Ktuner, I'm only planing to install the base-map tune. My understanding is the base tune is too conservative and will not harm any of the stock parts (including the cats). The base-map tune included saying the following "Tune support exhaust mods". MY car is still under warranty, so I would like to have an option to re-flash to stock in case I need warranty work.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

simple addition does not work when "Adding up" horsepower.

the Jpipe would be the best bang for the buck!
and an aggresive tune will not hurt a naturally aspirated engine.

Mina_Bekhit

Does that mean the base map tune can harm the cat converter or any other part? Are you suggesting doing custom tune anyway to avoid any problem? Thanks

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I cannot advise.

dopeboy1

Im assuming there are multiple base maps for various mods? So as long as you install the right basemap it would be fine and not harm ur cats. Ive also heard speculation that hfpc's or pcds can yeild more gains than the jpipe.

But to keep it simple just get the jpipe and dont overthink it.

Can anyone comment on what i could expect doing the basemap for hfpc + jpipe?

KarKraze

The J Pipe was one of the very first performance mods I did, at the time there was no Tune available for the 4G.
I liked it because it added better tone to the Exhaust and butt dyno felt like the was some power gain.

I am aware that you mentioned a limited budget , my advice to you would be to go with the HFPC and have an exhaust shop delete the third Resonator on the stock J Pipe. The two should give you a nice little bump in performance and make you Exhaust sound sweet .

Seeing that a loud Exhaust is not something you like, the improved tone from the above mentioned Mods would be an added bonus. Neither will hurt your engine and later on you can get the K Tuner and a custom tune ( E Tune to start ).

Mina_Bekhit

Thank you all for your input.

It looks like it's not a good idea to get tuned with the OEM cats. I'm in Calgary/Canada, going to a shop and asking for a custom made test pipe to delete my 3rd cat may end up be the same price as the J pipe. So based on this discussion, it seems like I can get the Jpipe as first mode, HFPC second and Ktuner third. Does that sound correct?

KarKraze

My advise would be to delete the third Cat on the Stock J Pipe, should not cost a lot to do that. HFPC and then K Tuner.

The Stock J Pipe with the third Cat deleted and port matched to the HFPC will cost less and yield better performance than an aftermarket J Pipe, didn't want to mention this last bit since some folks might find it controversial.

KarKraze

I never used any of the Basemaps, went straight to an E Tune. I can tell you, once you have the car hooked up to the K Tuner and start to do some Datalogging you will want to have it properly tuned.
Looking at Knock and AFR will prompt you to get it tuned. A nice plus of the tuning is when your Tuner starts to adjust you throttle sensitivity / response via DBW (drive by wire) tuning.

dopeboy1

Interesting, can you comment further on the stock jpipe with 3rd cat delete being better than an aftermarket jpipe?

KarKraze

It depends on where you want the power. Again, this is just a personal experiment and cost me nothing since i did the work myself.

After I went to the aftermarket J Pipe, I decided to play around with the Stock J Pipe , this included removing the third Cat and then reaming the opening on the stock J Pipe.
If memory serves me correct, it is about 1 .812" stock where the Flanges are, I opened that up around .125" , reinforced the outer welding and reinstalled. The car felt better like it had better performance down low vs at higher RPM with aftermarket J Pipe.

In hindsight, had I known that I would have probably not have purchased a J Pipe. It is controversial since there is no hard data surrounding it, just my personal experience. Most people will be better off going aftermarket and save the hassle. Me...well, I like to experiment .

dopeboy1

That's pretty cool and makes sense that it could be better for lower rpm.

I just need to find a tuner lol.

Rancher2005

I get knock above 55F on base tune #2 with supporting mods.
Can you guys PM me the e-tuners you used?

KarKraze

Kenny Sampson @ TurboGixxer. I believe he is now with SpeefdFactory.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I'm getting mine etuned with Kenny as well. I've been very happy with the service and results.

KarKraze

Good to know!! I am a satisfied customer as well, I know of a few others that have used his services.

Mina_Bekhit

Did you figure out about the engine knocking? Is there any particular reason for having engine knocking with the provided base map?

CgyTypeS

Thread revival, one year later....

Hey Mina, good to see a fellow Calgarian here

Just wanted to find out what you ended up doing in terms of mods for your car? And if you ended up tuning it at all?

Mina_Bekhit

I ended up buying the ktuner not the jpipe. I installed one of the saved maps. I never custom tuned the car since I had no modifications. I didn't find any power difference after installing the ktuner base map, so I decided to sell the ktuner.

I traded my car for a 2019 tlx a spec which is faster by nature than my 2013 tl awd.

CgyTypeS

Ah okay. I'm still on the fence of whether to buy Flashpro/K-Tuner or not, or just get a basemap tune from a local tuner here. How is the 2019 TLX? That's a sweet looking ride!

Mina_Bekhit

I never heard about falshpro for the 4G TL. There is a Ktuner dealer in red deer (they don't have AWD dyno though). When I called them for a tune, they gave me a price close to buying the ktuner. I decided to buy the ktuner and install a base map and after doing some mods, I was planning to get etune.

Regarding the tlx, I like it so much. It's a little bit faster, more planted in the curves, road noise and ride quality has been really improved over the 4G TL. I also like the look of the A SPEC. Good luck with your tune. I see videos online that show this car has a good potential after installing PCD or High flow cats + Jpipe + custom tune.