K & N air filter
04-02-2012, 03:47 PM
#41
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Interesting to hear that fuel economy can't improve...
Here's a pretty good study I just found about this (link pasted below). The study was comparing the effect of a clogged vs unclogged filter. You could assume it would give you the similar results for a less restrictive filter like K&N vs a stock OEM filter. The conclusion states there is no significant effect on fuel economy. But, it does show a loss of acceleration / power from an acceleration test from 20-80mph. Average time was 1.5 seconds slower with clogged filters, or an 8% loss. Makes me think that if you're running an OEM filter vs any filter that increases flow (like a K&N), there would surely be better performance from that simple mod. Yes?
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/...02_26_2009.pdf
Here's a pretty good study I just found about this (link pasted below). The study was comparing the effect of a clogged vs unclogged filter. You could assume it would give you the similar results for a less restrictive filter like K&N vs a stock OEM filter. The conclusion states there is no significant effect on fuel economy. But, it does show a loss of acceleration / power from an acceleration test from 20-80mph. Average time was 1.5 seconds slower with clogged filters, or an 8% loss. Makes me think that if you're running an OEM filter vs any filter that increases flow (like a K&N), there would surely be better performance from that simple mod. Yes?
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/...02_26_2009.pdf
04-02-2012, 03:49 PM
#42
Interesting to hear that fuel economy can't improve...
Here's a pretty good study I just found about this (link pasted below). The study was comparing the effect of a clogged vs unclogged filter. You could assume it would give you the similar results for a less restrictive filter like K&N vs a stock OEM filter. The conclusion states there is no significant effect on fuel economy. But, it does show a loss of acceleration / power from an acceleration test from 20-80mph. Average time was 1.5 seconds slower with clogged filters, or an 8% loss. Makes me think that if you're running an OEM filter vs any filter that increases flow (like a K&N), there would surely be better performance from that simple mod. Yes?
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/...02_26_2009.pdf
Here's a pretty good study I just found about this (link pasted below). The study was comparing the effect of a clogged vs unclogged filter. You could assume it would give you the similar results for a less restrictive filter like K&N vs a stock OEM filter. The conclusion states there is no significant effect on fuel economy. But, it does show a loss of acceleration / power from an acceleration test from 20-80mph. Average time was 1.5 seconds slower with clogged filters, or an 8% loss. Makes me think that if you're running an OEM filter vs any filter that increases flow (like a K&N), there would surely be better performance from that simple mod. Yes?
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/...02_26_2009.pdf
I like this guy! he does his homework!!!
now to your question.
its uncharted territory.
some one would have to test the airflow of the stock filter and the KN filter to see which one is the restricting factor.
on the 3G TL the throttle body was the restriction. so, if you had a filter that provided more CFM it wouldnt mean shit, because the throttle body would bottle neck it.
Last edited by justnspace; 04-02-2012 at 03:54 PM.
04-02-2012, 03:53 PM
#43
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^^^ read the conclusion:
4.1 CONCLUSIONS
The goal of this study was to explore the effects of a clogged air filter on the fuel economy of vehicles operating over prescribed test cycles. Three newer vehicles (a 2007 Buick Lucerne, a 2006 Dodge Charger, and a 2003 Toyota Camry) and an older carbureted vehicle were tested.
Results show that clogging the air filter has no significant effect on the fuel economy of the newer vehicles (all fuel injected with closed-loop control and one equipped with MDS). The engine control systems were able to maintain the desired AFR regardless of intake restrictions, and therefore fuel consumption was not increased. The carbureted engine did show a decrease in fuel economy with increasing restriction. However, the level of restriction required to cause a substantial (10–15%) decrease in fuel economy (such as that cited in the literature3,4) was so severe that the vehicle was almost undrivable. Acceleration performance on all vehicles was improved with a clean air filter.
The goal of this study was to explore the effects of a clogged air filter on the fuel economy of vehicles operating over prescribed test cycles. Three newer vehicles (a 2007 Buick Lucerne, a 2006 Dodge Charger, and a 2003 Toyota Camry) and an older carbureted vehicle were tested.
Results show that clogging the air filter has no significant effect on the fuel economy of the newer vehicles (all fuel injected with closed-loop control and one equipped with MDS). The engine control systems were able to maintain the desired AFR regardless of intake restrictions, and therefore fuel consumption was not increased. The carbureted engine did show a decrease in fuel economy with increasing restriction. However, the level of restriction required to cause a substantial (10–15%) decrease in fuel economy (such as that cited in the literature3,4) was so severe that the vehicle was almost undrivable. Acceleration performance on all vehicles was improved with a clean air filter.
04-02-2012, 05:19 PM
#44
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^^^ EasyRider....here is the deal:
CAI's/SRI's offer a less restrictive path to intake air....plus the filter has a larger on these offer more surface area....
so you have more air available to enter the TB without the butterfly being wide wide wide open (which is without being on the throttle)....and hence you get a slightly better MPG (.2-.5 MPG more MAXXXX)....hence nothing to brag about
CAI's/SRI's offer a less restrictive path to intake air....plus the filter has a larger on these offer more surface area....
so you have more air available to enter the TB without the butterfly being wide wide wide open (which is without being on the throttle)....and hence you get a slightly better MPG (.2-.5 MPG more MAXXXX)....hence nothing to brag about
04-02-2012, 09:48 PM
#45
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round of a applause!!!
I like this guy! he does his homework!!!
now to your question.
its uncharted territory.
some one would have to test the airflow of the stock filter and the KN filter to see which one is the restricting factor.
on the 3G TL the throttle body was the restriction. so, if you had a filter that provided more CFM it wouldnt mean shit, because the throttle body would bottle neck it.
I like this guy! he does his homework!!!
now to your question.
its uncharted territory.
some one would have to test the airflow of the stock filter and the KN filter to see which one is the restricting factor.
on the 3G TL the throttle body was the restriction. so, if you had a filter that provided more CFM it wouldnt mean shit, because the throttle body would bottle neck it.
Curious if you think there is a better less restrictive "performance" filter for the stock OEM intake besides the K&N filter?? Read a write ups about the oil build-up causing issues. Id prefer to install it and forget it...
04-02-2012, 10:52 PM
#47
Pro
Maybe I'm misinformed but doesn't the 2012 TL have an OEM cold air intake? Seems counter productive (or at least not PROductive) to add a SRI that breathes better if I'm just sucking in mass amounts of hot air compared to the stock intake which sucks moderate amounts of "cold" air. Hot summer days on Chicago's highway system probably wouldn't be fun with a SRI. I experienced something similar when I took out the intake resonator on my TSX. First 3000 RPMS from standstill was BRUTAL! Felt like my 5hp go-kart I had growing up.
04-03-2012, 08:21 AM
#48
I have realtime IAT metering on my TL. The Takeda SRI is showing 77 degree temperatures while the engine is at 165, and the outdoor temp is 72.
I don't have a baseline to compare that to on the stock (though anyone in the Cincinnati area, I'd be happy to plug in and get readings) - but would seem to me that it's doing THAT part of it's job. It isn't making any more power because of it - so my presumption would be the stock airbox would yield IAT temps in the same range.
I don't have a baseline to compare that to on the stock (though anyone in the Cincinnati area, I'd be happy to plug in and get readings) - but would seem to me that it's doing THAT part of it's job. It isn't making any more power because of it - so my presumption would be the stock airbox would yield IAT temps in the same range.
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04-03-2012, 09:22 AM
#49
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I have realtime IAT metering on my TL. The Takeda SRI is showing 77 degree temperatures while the engine is at 165, and the outdoor temp is 72.
I don't have a baseline to compare that to on the stock (though anyone in the Cincinnati area, I'd be happy to plug in and get readings) - but would seem to me that it's doing THAT part of it's job. It isn't making any more power because of it - so my presumption would be the stock airbox would yield IAT temps in the same range.
I don't have a baseline to compare that to on the stock (though anyone in the Cincinnati area, I'd be happy to plug in and get readings) - but would seem to me that it's doing THAT part of it's job. It isn't making any more power because of it - so my presumption would be the stock airbox would yield IAT temps in the same range.
Back to the K&N though, anyone that had problems with the sensor getting mucked up in oil. Can anyone clarify whether or not this happened after you personally cleaned and relubed the filter or before cleaning? I'm curious if anyone had bad results prior to cleaning it themselves...
04-03-2012, 10:54 PM
#50
04-04-2012, 12:15 AM
#51
6G TLX-S
The rise in temp caused by the sun is nothing in comparison with the temp rise caused by the engine and the super-hot exhaust manifold underneath the hood.
04-04-2012, 06:49 AM
#52
The engine should stay a constant 165-180 provided the air around it isn't in excess of those temps - regardless of outdoor temp. If it's 100 outside - the IAT shouldn't read more than 110-115 on stock airbox or the shorty.
The IAT on my S2000 with the stock airbox was never more than 10-15 degrees above outdoor temp on track days, and then with a full AEM V2 CAI - that did drop to 5-6 degrees above outdoor temp.
The IAT on my S2000 with the stock airbox was never more than 10-15 degrees above outdoor temp on track days, and then with a full AEM V2 CAI - that did drop to 5-6 degrees above outdoor temp.
04-04-2012, 10:48 AM
#53
The engine should stay a constant 165-180 provided the air around it isn't in excess of those temps - regardless of outdoor temp. If it's 100 outside - the IAT shouldn't read more than 110-115 on stock airbox or the shorty.
The IAT on my S2000 with the stock airbox was never more than 10-15 degrees above outdoor temp on track days, and then with a full AEM V2 CAI - that did drop to 5-6 degrees above outdoor temp.
The IAT on my S2000 with the stock airbox was never more than 10-15 degrees above outdoor temp on track days, and then with a full AEM V2 CAI - that did drop to 5-6 degrees above outdoor temp.
04-04-2012, 08:24 PM
#54
Drifting
Easy - Please stop derailing threads and taking them off topic or vacations are in order.
This is a good thread, so I'm going to clean up the mess.
Let's keep things on topic.
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04-04-2012, 08:26 PM
#55
Advanced
As a first time poster (long time reader) I realize now what a waste of time reading this stuff actually is. Although, it's good entertainment ! Better than watching idol while my wife steals the tv anyway.
Cai, Sri, your money, no money, my money....ridiculous... And too funny!
Cai, Sri, your money, no money, my money....ridiculous... And too funny!
04-05-2012, 08:24 AM
#57
The stock 09 SH-AWD airbox:
(The above is all that the SRI replaces)
The 09 SH-AWD Cowl Intake scoop. This pulls air from the grille area, loops down under the battery (may be a resonator down there, but I'm not sure) and feeds it up to where the SRI in the picture has it's air filter resting.
So really, while a K&N drop in filter might be less resistant, I don't believe the stock airbox outflows the stock filter, so you might get a little more noise, but not like you would on a more restrictive airbox.
(The above is all that the SRI replaces)
The 09 SH-AWD Cowl Intake scoop. This pulls air from the grille area, loops down under the battery (may be a resonator down there, but I'm not sure) and feeds it up to where the SRI in the picture has it's air filter resting.
So really, while a K&N drop in filter might be less resistant, I don't believe the stock airbox outflows the stock filter, so you might get a little more noise, but not like you would on a more restrictive airbox.
05-10-2012, 03:32 PM
#59
Account closed
K&N inproves "butt" hp
Most likely MPG will go down due to the amount of time that your foot increases pressure to hear that sucking sound or is that the sucking sound of the price of the K&N or the extra fuel you're using
I just change out the stock paper filter more often, less cost, less hassle
Most likely MPG will go down due to the amount of time that your foot increases pressure to hear that sucking sound or is that the sucking sound of the price of the K&N or the extra fuel you're using
I just change out the stock paper filter more often, less cost, less hassle
07-03-2012, 07:03 PM
#63
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@ 9.9 to 14.1MPG and huuugggggee increase in HP LOL
07-04-2012, 11:16 AM
#64
The thing I've noticed on K&N filters is it is about half the thickness of a paper filter. The whole point of the filter is to keep out particles. Its not going to give you 10 hp so you're getting more air flow less protection.
Thing with cars more air flow don't necessarily mean more power unless you tune your car for it which don't exists as of right now unless you get a stand alone ecu
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07-04-2012, 02:26 PM
#65
6G TLX-S
Aftermarket filters do give a louder intake air sucking noise which gives the psychological effect of making the engine more powerful and making the car go faster than they really are.
07-04-2012, 08:23 PM
#66
Safety Car
I am tempted to pick up one just to try it on my 2012 TL SH-AWD to see if my MPG changes. Not looking for more power, just better mpg. But going to wait till I start my new job which is a 10 mile trip all highway each way and measure that for a few weeks then measure it with the K&N. 
Justin, what kind of measurements are you looking for? I have TORQUE App for my Android phone with the OBDII reader that might give me some more info from the ECU on the car too.
Justin, what kind of measurements are you looking for? I have TORQUE App for my Android phone with the OBDII reader that might give me some more info from the ECU on the car too.
07-05-2012, 02:23 AM
#67
Pro
Why is this troll even allowed on Acurazine still? All he does is talk about his SRI
The thing I've noticed on K&N filters is it is about half the thickness of a paper filter. The whole point of the filter is to keep out particles. Its not going to give you 10 hp so you're getting more air flow less protection.
Thing with cars more air flow don't necessarily mean more power unless you tune your car for it which don't exists as of right now unless you get a stand alone ecu
The thing I've noticed on K&N filters is it is about half the thickness of a paper filter. The whole point of the filter is to keep out particles. Its not going to give you 10 hp so you're getting more air flow less protection.
Thing with cars more air flow don't necessarily mean more power unless you tune your car for it which don't exists as of right now unless you get a stand alone ecu
Your posting on this thread and obviously curious of the power it can give you.
07-05-2012, 10:39 AM
#68
Me posting on this thread has doesn't mean I'm curious about the power it can give me. A SRI doesn't technically give you more power if someone hasn't already told you 100 times. All I mentioned was the differences between a K&N DROP IN filter vs paper filters that I see.
If I wanted power I wouldn't look at a drop in filter thread #COMONMAN
07-05-2012, 12:35 PM
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07-05-2012, 08:22 PM
#74
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Guys,
Pete already warned you guys about getting off-topic. I think name calling is off-topic.
Thread Closed.
Pete already warned you guys about getting off-topic. I think name calling is off-topic.
Thread Closed.
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