Intake
11-18-2012, 03:59 PM
#42
The K&N filters are proven to be less restrictive than oem paper filters. Care to explain why making the air intake less restrictive wouldn't lead to gains on a 3.5L or 3.7L V6?
11-18-2012, 09:13 PM
#43
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
Less restrictive is not necessary a good thing for engines.
Less restrictive meaning more tiny junks are gonna get through the filter and into the individual cylinders. Sand and salt (winter time) particles are not combustible and therefore will scotch up the cylinder walls/rings real bad. Over time, the cylinders will lose compression and the engine will burn oil.
Less restrictive is not necessary a good thing for engines.
Less restrictive meaning more tiny junks are gonna get through the filter and into the individual cylinders. Sand and salt (winter time) particles are not combustible and therefore will scotch up the cylinder walls/rings real bad. Over time, the cylinders will lose compression and the engine will burn oil.
11-18-2012, 10:44 PM
#44
Moderator
many people have claimed that i have used X product for XX amount of years with no problems. The PROBLEM is that you spent a chunk of change on a product that not only DID NOT increase your hp, but also let in a lot of dirt while doing it.
Does it flow better? At very high airflow volumes, probably. BUT, our engines CAN’T flow that much air unless super-modified, so what is the point? The stock filter will flow MORE THAN ENOUGH AIR to give you ALL THE HORSEPOWER the engine has to give. And this remains true until the filter is dirty enough to be recognizable. At that point performance will decline somewhat. Replace the filter and get on with it.
below picture is a side by side..
OEM FILTER vs K&N Filter.. look at the difference
In a high performance car.. yes you will see slight gains.. on a stock daily car.. you wont see anything...
only thing that will come of this is that your MAF sensor will be damaged.
Go ahead, google it, many many people have had k&n filters on their cars only to have MAF sensor go bad because of the OIL that comes out of that filter.
even dealers do not recommend using oiled base filters due to issues.
11-19-2012, 01:21 PM
#46
many people have claimed that i have used X product for XX amount of years with no problems. The PROBLEM is that you spent a chunk of change on a product that not only DID NOT increase your hp, but also let in a lot of dirt while doing it.
Does it flow better? At very high airflow volumes, probably. BUT, our engines CAN’T flow that much air unless super-modified, so what is the point? The stock filter will flow MORE THAN ENOUGH AIR to give you ALL THE HORSEPOWER the engine has to give. And this remains true until the filter is dirty enough to be recognizable. At that point performance will decline somewhat. Replace the filter and get on with it.
below picture is a side by side..
OEM FILTER vs K&N Filter.. look at the difference
In a high performance car.. yes you will see slight gains.. on a stock daily car.. you wont see anything...
only thing that will come of this is that your MAF sensor will be damaged.
Go ahead, google it, many many people have had k&n filters on their cars only to have MAF sensor go bad because of the OIL that comes out of that filter.
even dealers do not recommend using oiled base filters due to issues.
Does it flow better? At very high airflow volumes, probably. BUT, our engines CAN’T flow that much air unless super-modified, so what is the point? The stock filter will flow MORE THAN ENOUGH AIR to give you ALL THE HORSEPOWER the engine has to give. And this remains true until the filter is dirty enough to be recognizable. At that point performance will decline somewhat. Replace the filter and get on with it.
below picture is a side by side..
OEM FILTER vs K&N Filter.. look at the difference
In a high performance car.. yes you will see slight gains.. on a stock daily car.. you wont see anything...
only thing that will come of this is that your MAF sensor will be damaged.
Go ahead, google it, many many people have had k&n filters on their cars only to have MAF sensor go bad because of the OIL that comes out of that filter.
even dealers do not recommend using oiled base filters due to issues.
Obviously neither one of us can 100% say for sure we are right unless we can find dyno charts of an Accord or TL with a before and after install, but I'm pretty confident you'd see gains.
We should probably just agree to disagree...
Last edited by wreak; 11-19-2012 at 01:28 PM.
11-19-2012, 01:35 PM
#47
^^^^^
Less restrictive is not necessary a good thing for engines.
Less restrictive meaning more tiny junks are gonna get through the filter and into the individual cylinders. Sand and salt (winter time) particles are not combustible and therefore will scotch up the cylinder walls/rings real bad. Over time, the cylinders will lose compression and the engine will burn oil.
Less restrictive is not necessary a good thing for engines.
Less restrictive meaning more tiny junks are gonna get through the filter and into the individual cylinders. Sand and salt (winter time) particles are not combustible and therefore will scotch up the cylinder walls/rings real bad. Over time, the cylinders will lose compression and the engine will burn oil.
This is an enthusiast forum and we are in the performance/modification section right? Or should I go into the suspension forum and start telling people to stop lowering their cars, that it's bad for their suspension components?
11-19-2012, 01:59 PM
#48
Moderator
sadly, k&n does not offer dryflow for our cars, so its out of the question..
less restriction = more dirt = performance loss over period of time
more restriction = less dirt = standard oem performance
so if there is really no proven performance gains but only proven damages to the MAF sensors.. why do you want to a filter that is known to damage your sensors due to oil? Did you know that they use 1.10 oz of oil in every filter?
its like buying replica wheels knowing that it can crack on you anytime..
you can search in any number of auto enthusiast forums.. many and many people are against using K&N oiled filters.. its just something to add on your "MOD list"
if done correctly, yes its good for a long term.
since when is lowering bad for your suspensions.. doing it incorrectly is bad..
less restriction = more dirt = performance loss over period of time
more restriction = less dirt = standard oem performance
so if there is really no proven performance gains but only proven damages to the MAF sensors.. why do you want to a filter that is known to damage your sensors due to oil? Did you know that they use 1.10 oz of oil in every filter?
its like buying replica wheels knowing that it can crack on you anytime..
you can search in any number of auto enthusiast forums.. many and many people are against using K&N oiled filters.. its just something to add on your "MOD list"
since when is lowering bad for your suspensions.. doing it incorrectly is bad..
Last edited by potmilkz; 11-19-2012 at 02:03 PM.
11-19-2012, 02:47 PM
#49
6G TLX-S
No kidding less restriction for the intake isn't as good for filtering lol do you think half the stuff people do to their cars to gain performance is even remotely good long term?
This is an enthusiast forum and we are in the performance/modification section right? Or should I go into the suspension forum and start telling people to stop lowering their cars, that it's bad for their suspension components?
This is an enthusiast forum and we are in the performance/modification section right? Or should I go into the suspension forum and start telling people to stop lowering their cars, that it's bad for their suspension components?
Less restrictive filters will let in more dirt, but less restrictive J-pipes/headers, large-diameter exhaust pipes, free-flow cats, and free-flow mufflers won't.
So you can feel free to continue recommend installing J-pipes/headers, big exhaust pipes, free-flow cats, and free-flow mufflers, because they won't let dirt inside the engine and ruin the piston/cylinder sealing.
But instead, you just recommended the less restrictive filters which WILL cause damage to the engine internals.
Maybe you're a newbie in suspension modding. If the suspension mod is done properly, it won't cause any damage to a lowered car.
For instance, there won't be a problem if lowering springs and aftermarket shocks are replaced at the same time. It will only cause problems if the lowering springs is used with the OEM shocks which are not designed to be used with higher-spring-rate aftermarket springs.
For instance, if the size and offset of the aftermarket wheels and tires are selected correctly, it won't cause any damage to the suspension.
The suspension will only be damaged if wheels of too wild offset are used, and the wheels are sticking way, way outside the fenders. Only then this will cause excessive stress on the suspension components.
11-19-2012, 03:53 PM
#51
Moderator
Eazyrider, do you even understand any of the stuff you post? seems like my 9 year old nephew can make more sense than you..
btw this news just came in today from Comptech.. with proven hp gains.
CTE ICE BOX DYNO's
proof is in the picture and CTE stands by it..
btw this news just came in today from Comptech.. with proven hp gains.
CTE ICE BOX DYNO's
proof is in the picture and CTE stands by it..
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vtec314 (03-24-2013)
11-19-2012, 04:16 PM
#53
Moderator
again, please read before answering.. at no point where i agree with you on anything.. only thing i agree with is that your a complete idiot...
do you agree with that?
do you agree with that?
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dwest1023 (03-24-2013)
11-19-2012, 04:21 PM
#55
Hey potmilkz so much for your:
That dyno alone shows that the oem intake has a ton more potential than how Honda designed it. Don't think for a second that some of that power didn't come from a more free flowing filter that the icebox will come with.
Okay so bad offset choices or not running more suitable shocks are the only cause of suspension damage when lowering? How about the fact that you call me a newbie and leave out one of the most important factors when lowering a car, don't you think a camber kit is a little important? How about camber, caster and toe?
Why don't you tell everyone running the icebox that they're damaging their cars.
Originally Posted by potmilkz
The stock filter will flow MORE THAN ENOUGH AIR to give you ALL THE HORSEPOWER the engine has to give.
Let's be reasonable here.
Less restrictive filters will let in more dirt, but less restrictive J-pipes/headers, large-diameter exhaust pipes, free-flow cats, and free-flow mufflers won't.
So you can feel free to continue recommend installing J-pipes/headers, big exhaust pipes, free-flow cats, and free-flow mufflers, because they won't let dirt inside the engine and ruin the piston/cylinder sealing.
But instead, you just recommended the less restrictive filters which WILL cause damage to the engine internals.
Maybe you're a newbie in suspension modding. If the suspension mod is done properly, it won't cause any damage to a lowered car.
For instance, there won't be a problem if lowering springs and aftermarket shocks are replaced at the same time. It will only cause problems if the lowering springs is used with the OEM shocks which are not designed to be used with higher-spring-rate aftermarket springs.
For instance, if the size and offset of the aftermarket wheels and tires are selected correctly, it won't cause any damage to the suspension.
The suspension will only be damaged if wheels of too wild offset are used, and the wheels are sticking way, way outside the fenders. Only then this will cause excessive stress on the suspension components.
Less restrictive filters will let in more dirt, but less restrictive J-pipes/headers, large-diameter exhaust pipes, free-flow cats, and free-flow mufflers won't.
So you can feel free to continue recommend installing J-pipes/headers, big exhaust pipes, free-flow cats, and free-flow mufflers, because they won't let dirt inside the engine and ruin the piston/cylinder sealing.
But instead, you just recommended the less restrictive filters which WILL cause damage to the engine internals.
Maybe you're a newbie in suspension modding. If the suspension mod is done properly, it won't cause any damage to a lowered car.
For instance, there won't be a problem if lowering springs and aftermarket shocks are replaced at the same time. It will only cause problems if the lowering springs is used with the OEM shocks which are not designed to be used with higher-spring-rate aftermarket springs.
For instance, if the size and offset of the aftermarket wheels and tires are selected correctly, it won't cause any damage to the suspension.
The suspension will only be damaged if wheels of too wild offset are used, and the wheels are sticking way, way outside the fenders. Only then this will cause excessive stress on the suspension components.
Why don't you tell everyone running the icebox that they're damaging their cars.
Last edited by Steven Bell; 11-19-2012 at 08:14 PM. Reason: Merged Posts
11-19-2012, 04:37 PM
#56
Moderator
so let me get this straight.. that reference was towards filters, but your comparing it to a whole new intake assembly..
Originally Posted by potmilkz
The stock filter will flow MORE THAN ENOUGH AIR to give you ALL THE HORSEPOWER the engine has to give.
The stock filter will flow MORE THAN ENOUGH AIR to give you ALL THE HORSEPOWER the engine has to give.
I dont think its that complicated to understand the differences between the two..
A whole new intake assembly will obviously give you HP gains especially when its coming from comptech..
Please! when correcting me, make sure you have valid points.
11-19-2012, 04:41 PM
#58
so let me get this straight.. that reference was towards filters, but your comparing it to a whole new intake assembly..
Key word is STOCK FILTER and not a whole assembly..
I dont think its that complicated to understand the differences between the two..
A whole new intake assembly will obviously give you HP gains especially when its coming from comptech..
Please! when correcting me, make sure you have valid points.
Key word is STOCK FILTER and not a whole assembly..
I dont think its that complicated to understand the differences between the two..
A whole new intake assembly will obviously give you HP gains especially when its coming from comptech..
Please! when correcting me, make sure you have valid points.
11-19-2012, 04:42 PM
#59
Moderator
Okay so bad offset choices or not running more suitable shocks are the only cause of suspension damage when lowering? How about the fact that you call me a newbie and leave out one of the most important factors when lowering a car, don't you think a camber kit is a little important? How about camber, caster and toe?
Why don't you tell everyone running the icebox that they're damaging their cars.
Why don't you tell everyone running the icebox that they're damaging their cars.
First, that is why they make camber kits.. guess you have never heard of them before.. They make it to correct camber.
I am lowered with no camber kit and i am still within OEM specs of camber.. so your point is not valid.
Secondly.. comptech is not dumb enough to run oiled base filters that can potentially damage your car. Back then they did run oiled base filters.. but now they run foam filters. Check out the TSX ICE BOX and you will see. I have had comptech products before, even the comptech intake, they are dry flow filters. no damage can be done there.. actually they use OEM filters for some of their products, they just produce a better free flowing intake design.
Last edited by potmilkz; 11-19-2012 at 04:52 PM.
11-19-2012, 04:53 PM
#61
Originally Posted by potmilkz
Secondly.. comptech is not dumb enough to run oiled base filters that can potentially damage your car. I have had comptech products before, even the comptech intake, they are dry flow filters. no damage can be done there.. actually they use OEM filters for some of their products, they just produce a better free flowing intake design.
11-19-2012, 05:01 PM
#64
Moderator
The fact that the car made that much of an increase on an intake is proof that these cars are GREATLY restricted with the oem intake. Why don't you buy the icebox and install a factory filter in it since the comptech one will be less restrictive, maybe it will save your engine from the dirt demons that will destroy it.
No shit! if you run a intake pipe right out of the throttle body without any filtering you are going to see gains. Its not old news there. The issue is how do you do it safely..
Comptech has a redesigned intake, it runs a foam filter, which you can also run a stock oem filter as well. (based on the 2nd gen TSX) Their old style intakes runs on a cone foam filter.. i think the 3G is that style..
I will buy a CTE Ice box.. They have good track record.. buying anything less than that would be a bad decision..
i guess you really have to understand the mechanics of how the engine works to fully understand what damages can be done..
11-19-2012, 05:03 PM
#65
I'd like to think that I only engage in conversation here when I have some experience or knowledge around a subject but this Potmilkz guy just CAN'T walk away. I said we could agree to disagree earlier in the thread to end it there but he just keeps coming back.
11-19-2012, 05:16 PM
#66
Moderator
Yeah you're really funny, I bet you felt really smart by catching me repeat the point.
Just because something doesn't apply to you doesn't mean it's incorrect, that's what I call ignorance. Don't tell me camber has nothing to do with lowering a car because you managed to stay within factory spec.
No Comptech doesn't use oil based filters but they use high flow filters which allow more debris in, they often use foam filters in the iceboxes. So are you going to buy an icebox and replace it with an oem filter? I can promise you without seeing the final product that the new comptech intake WILL NOT use a factory paper filter.
Just because something doesn't apply to you doesn't mean it's incorrect, that's what I call ignorance. Don't tell me camber has nothing to do with lowering a car because you managed to stay within factory spec.
No Comptech doesn't use oil based filters but they use high flow filters which allow more debris in, they often use foam filters in the iceboxes. So are you going to buy an icebox and replace it with an oem filter? I can promise you without seeing the final product that the new comptech intake WILL NOT use a factory paper filter.
All cars with stock or aftermarket suspensions will have camber, or will eventually have camber and will need to be realigned.. so whats your point? Im lowered, and im within the camber specs as if i was with stock.. so how does that make me incorrect?
11-19-2012, 05:30 PM
#67
Incorrect? you said there could be damages due to lowering.. how do this turn from that to being incorrect?
All cars with stock or aftermarket suspensions will have camber, or will eventually have camber and will need to be realigned.. so whats your point? Im lowered, and im within the camber specs as if i was with stock.. so how does that make me incorrect?
All cars with stock or aftermarket suspensions will have camber, or will eventually have camber and will need to be realigned.. so whats your point? Im lowered, and im within the camber specs as if i was with stock.. so how does that make me incorrect?
11-19-2012, 08:23 PM
#68
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EazyRider, we get it...you like the filters.
There is a lot of technical information being shared here.
Quit trying to pick fights while the exchange of information is going on.
There is a lot of technical information being shared here.
Quit trying to pick fights while the exchange of information is going on.
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OkieTL (03-24-2013)
11-19-2012, 10:08 PM
#69
6G TLX-S
Ok, no broken record, no suspension talk, and let's get back onto topic.
Less restrictive filters will let in more dirt and tiny abrasive junks that will scratch up the cylinder walls and piston rings, and thus will cause sealing problems and excessive oil burning in the future days.
But other exhaust component upgrades such as high flow cats, high flow mufflers, etc., won't.
Less restrictive filters will let in more dirt and tiny abrasive junks that will scratch up the cylinder walls and piston rings, and thus will cause sealing problems and excessive oil burning in the future days.
But other exhaust component upgrades such as high flow cats, high flow mufflers, etc., won't.
03-24-2013, 12:30 AM
#71
When I had my x8lr exhaust with testpipe&jeypipe only I was racing 08 acura type s his mods were injen intake, atlp exhaust with headers, no downpipe. Me and him raced he was beating me by 1 car, I got my intake takeda, raced again and me and him were going the same and on 4th gear I was going ahead and my car shifts automatically to 5fth and 6th gear, and thats how he beats me. But my car beats him till 110mph. and we do 35 roll, 40, 45
03-24-2013, 12:31 AM
#72
When I put takeda intake , my mods were x8lr, test pipe, jeypipe thats it. Thats when I beat him :d
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