Installed P2R Runners and Gaskets - Impressions
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Three Wheelin'
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From: Burlington, KY
Installed P2R Runners and Gaskets - Impressions
I did the intake manifold installation yesterday. Bought the P2R spacer, P2R TB gaskets, TB intake mani gasket, and the polished runners from throwdown.
1. The P2R thermal intake gasket is trash. The holes are way off, and the work it would take to make it right basically makes the gasket undependable. I tried to clean it up a bit with the dremel, and wasn't feeling the final result. I'll be sharing my feedback with them.
2. The P2R runners from throwdown are someone's cores, but it's a hunk of metal, so no biggie. Would have been nice to know that up front though, and maybe just an oversight on my part.
Q: How hard is the install?
A: Scale of 1-10, with 1 being change your brake pads, and 10 being putting in new piston rings, I'd say this is a 3. You will be disconnecting vacuum lines, sensors, and removing the fuel delivery system of the car, and you'll need a good tool set to get the various angles necessary to remove the runners.
Q: How long did it take?
A: Being careful, you can do it in 2-3 hours. It's nothing over physically burdening, with no absurdly tight bolts to remove, but with a couple knuckle-buster angles. My knees and lower back are a little sore, but I'm old.
Q: Impressions, what did it do?
I don't know yet. I have the takeda, the P2R spacer and thermal gaskets (just installed) and now the intake runners. I don't think it's down on power, but I've only put a few miles on it. I'd speculate those who did this mod and gave the down on power feedback may have used a crappy gasket, and ended up blocking the intake ports, or, they didn't have the Takeda, which does hurt a bit of the top end on an unmodified engine, and I'm not noticing any loss because there isn't any with the intake present, or there's actually a minor gain.
Observations
The port diameters were identical on the polished and the factory. It's a poish, not a port job. There are some angle cuts on the fuel injector reliefs, but other than that, it's just a shine job. I see no reason why it would reduce power, just less restrictive.
Words of Wisdom
Remove the rear bank runner first, to get the angle on the last two bolts for the front bank.
Remove the wiring harness bolts at the left of the engine, to get complete access to the front banks left-most bolt.
Don't remove the fuel injectors from the rail - you can remove and reinsert the rails with all the injectors in place.
When you go to start the car the first time, you can't prime the fuel pump because of the keyless. Just push the start button and it will pump and crank until it fires.
Noises
I have a slight whine/wheeze noise that I suspect is just something not tight enough, or the thermal gaskets on the throttle body not seating completely. It's kind of a high pitched whistle and noticeable only at very slight throttle.
I'll get some pictures up...
1. The P2R thermal intake gasket is trash. The holes are way off, and the work it would take to make it right basically makes the gasket undependable. I tried to clean it up a bit with the dremel, and wasn't feeling the final result. I'll be sharing my feedback with them.
2. The P2R runners from throwdown are someone's cores, but it's a hunk of metal, so no biggie. Would have been nice to know that up front though, and maybe just an oversight on my part.
Q: How hard is the install?
A: Scale of 1-10, with 1 being change your brake pads, and 10 being putting in new piston rings, I'd say this is a 3. You will be disconnecting vacuum lines, sensors, and removing the fuel delivery system of the car, and you'll need a good tool set to get the various angles necessary to remove the runners.
Q: How long did it take?
A: Being careful, you can do it in 2-3 hours. It's nothing over physically burdening, with no absurdly tight bolts to remove, but with a couple knuckle-buster angles. My knees and lower back are a little sore, but I'm old.
Q: Impressions, what did it do?
I don't know yet. I have the takeda, the P2R spacer and thermal gaskets (just installed) and now the intake runners. I don't think it's down on power, but I've only put a few miles on it. I'd speculate those who did this mod and gave the down on power feedback may have used a crappy gasket, and ended up blocking the intake ports, or, they didn't have the Takeda, which does hurt a bit of the top end on an unmodified engine, and I'm not noticing any loss because there isn't any with the intake present, or there's actually a minor gain.
Observations
The port diameters were identical on the polished and the factory. It's a poish, not a port job. There are some angle cuts on the fuel injector reliefs, but other than that, it's just a shine job. I see no reason why it would reduce power, just less restrictive.
Words of Wisdom
Remove the rear bank runner first, to get the angle on the last two bolts for the front bank.
Remove the wiring harness bolts at the left of the engine, to get complete access to the front banks left-most bolt.
Don't remove the fuel injectors from the rail - you can remove and reinsert the rails with all the injectors in place.
When you go to start the car the first time, you can't prime the fuel pump because of the keyless. Just push the start button and it will pump and crank until it fires.
Noises
I have a slight whine/wheeze noise that I suspect is just something not tight enough, or the thermal gaskets on the throttle body not seating completely. It's kind of a high pitched whistle and noticeable only at very slight throttle.
I'll get some pictures up...
Last edited by Pseudomaniac; Feb 2, 2012 at 06:59 AM.
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,523
Likes: 244
From: Burlington, KY
Spacer and thermal kit
Stocks vs polished
Polished Closeup
Stock gasket overlay on P2R - If you see white - the ports don't match even factory diameter.
Sharpie marker tracing to show mis-cuts on the ports.
[/IMG]
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,523
Likes: 244
From: Burlington, KY
MPG changes - not noticed. Getting 26-30 highway and 18-24 city.
Intake noise - bearing in mind, I have the Takeda (which adds a grunt/growl), I'm adding the TB spacer, TB thermal gaskets, and the intake runners here, it adds a bit more of a howl, and a very slight whine at 2k that I suspect is one of the TB gaskets not quite seating properly.
Driving Impressions
The Takeda gives you a little more 2k-4k grunt, but at the expense of being a little longer to get through the 5500+rpm range I believe.
I've added the runners, and extended the length of the intake tube by about 2 inches effectively. The impression is that throttle response is even better at that 2k-4k point. When you get into the vtec, it's like power right NOW and hits a little harder. I haven't really wound it out up top yet, but I believe the car's 20-60 acceleration is improved.
The real tell-tale sign is to see what kind of powerband I have after getting the P2R PCDs and longtube J pipe in place. The only thing "choking" the system at that point will be the stock exhaust, which should keep it drivable and comfortable, and sustain the low-end power I believe that has been gained with the intake and the polished runners.
Intake noise - bearing in mind, I have the Takeda (which adds a grunt/growl), I'm adding the TB spacer, TB thermal gaskets, and the intake runners here, it adds a bit more of a howl, and a very slight whine at 2k that I suspect is one of the TB gaskets not quite seating properly.
Driving Impressions
The Takeda gives you a little more 2k-4k grunt, but at the expense of being a little longer to get through the 5500+rpm range I believe.
I've added the runners, and extended the length of the intake tube by about 2 inches effectively. The impression is that throttle response is even better at that 2k-4k point. When you get into the vtec, it's like power right NOW and hits a little harder. I haven't really wound it out up top yet, but I believe the car's 20-60 acceleration is improved.
The real tell-tale sign is to see what kind of powerband I have after getting the P2R PCDs and longtube J pipe in place. The only thing "choking" the system at that point will be the stock exhaust, which should keep it drivable and comfortable, and sustain the low-end power I believe that has been gained with the intake and the polished runners.
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