Comptech Intake Prototype (FINALLY!)
09-21-2012, 09:20 AM
#42
Boring out the TB and Port and polishing the the manifold.
its a cost thing.
it would be cheaper if you just Ported and polished + bored throttle body.
have you freed up the exhaust?!
I see in your sig that you did.
09-21-2012, 10:16 AM
#43
every one on the 3rd gen side, is picking up the 3.7 manifold and 3.7 throttle body.
Boring out the TB and Port and polishing the the manifold.
its a cost thing.
it would be cheaper if you just Ported and polished + bored throttle body.
have you freed up the exhaust?!
I see in your sig that you did.
Boring out the TB and Port and polishing the the manifold.
its a cost thing.
it would be cheaper if you just Ported and polished + bored throttle body.
have you freed up the exhaust?!
I see in your sig that you did.
09-21-2012, 01:44 PM
#44
Have you ever looked at the baseline A/F on the J37? It's textbook Honda. Fat. From top to bottom. The only Honda with a remotely lean A/F was the F20C powered S2000, and anything with a factory fuel pump and injectors leans out at 9k.
An air fuel tune alone on an all stock B16 (civic Si 99/00, JDM CRX, Del Sol Vtec) back in the day would find 10-15 hp on the dyno. While that doesnt sound like much, you're talking about a motor that was only making 160hp - so you're getting nearly a 10% increase in output just by running leaner. The Honda "safety-net" for reliability and compensation for bad gas, harsh environments, etc. is generally about that 10% factor, even to date.
Going leaner doesnt mean you're going to blow the top off the engine. The ECU and plethora of timing adjustments, knock sensor, cam sensors, idle control, and air/exhaust metering allow the ECU to cripple the engine into a "flood it and no vtec for you" limp mode and make it near impossible to do damage if you push it that far.
Creating a leaner condition optimizes your mix and enables power to be created with less effort. Revs faster, more power per cycle, and *gasp* more efficiency.
You're talking about adding some kind of forced induction on a J motor before you ever outflow the stock pump and injectors / exceed the cycle of the stock ECU range.
N/A Breathing parts aren't going to put you in that risk zone on this engine.
An air fuel tune alone on an all stock B16 (civic Si 99/00, JDM CRX, Del Sol Vtec) back in the day would find 10-15 hp on the dyno. While that doesnt sound like much, you're talking about a motor that was only making 160hp - so you're getting nearly a 10% increase in output just by running leaner. The Honda "safety-net" for reliability and compensation for bad gas, harsh environments, etc. is generally about that 10% factor, even to date.
Going leaner doesnt mean you're going to blow the top off the engine. The ECU and plethora of timing adjustments, knock sensor, cam sensors, idle control, and air/exhaust metering allow the ECU to cripple the engine into a "flood it and no vtec for you" limp mode and make it near impossible to do damage if you push it that far.
Creating a leaner condition optimizes your mix and enables power to be created with less effort. Revs faster, more power per cycle, and *gasp* more efficiency.
You're talking about adding some kind of forced induction on a J motor before you ever outflow the stock pump and injectors / exceed the cycle of the stock ECU range.
N/A Breathing parts aren't going to put you in that risk zone on this engine.
All that for a couple HP is an owner decision i suppose....
I wouldn't add any performance parts to cars without tuning ability...
09-25-2012, 04:39 PM
#45
i am so smart S M R T
Playing with fire long term... This is where people miss the forest for the trees. Suppose bc this engine doesn't rev very high it is slightly less problematic... But to say leaner conditions 'optimize' your mix is incorrect. It decreases your margin of error, your reliability, and long term operation.
All that for a couple HP is an owner decision i suppose....
I wouldn't add any performance parts to cars without tuning ability...
All that for a couple HP is an owner decision i suppose....
I wouldn't add any performance parts to cars without tuning ability...
10-16-2012, 02:38 AM
#48
when can we buy it?
and when will they have real dynos to prove it actually makes power? i've read a few threads on here where people have basically said all the SRI's out there don't do squat for power..all they do is m ake nice noise... and I admit, the intakes sounds very very nice..... but if it loses power or makes no powerk, i'm not buying.
and i'm skeptical that an intake alone will do much of anythhing... and sure won't do enohgh to jusitfy spending $300-350......
we need to seee a real / OBJECTIVE - test/review.
and when will they have real dynos to prove it actually makes power? i've read a few threads on here where people have basically said all the SRI's out there don't do squat for power..all they do is m ake nice noise... and I admit, the intakes sounds very very nice..... but if it loses power or makes no powerk, i'm not buying.
and i'm skeptical that an intake alone will do much of anythhing... and sure won't do enohgh to jusitfy spending $300-350......
we need to seee a real / OBJECTIVE - test/review.
10-16-2012, 04:45 AM
#49
1. This is a Comptech icebox, which is effectively a CAI, not an SRI.
2. This is COMPTECH, not 'insert random mass tube manufacturer name here".
3. You can't buy it, because it's not done being tested and assembled.
4. You can't dyno this car, period. SHAWD doesn't know how to handle the rollers, and you risk burning it up putting it on there.
5. I wouldn't have started the thread if it wasn't worth reading up on. Now if easyrider started it....
2. This is COMPTECH, not 'insert random mass tube manufacturer name here".
3. You can't buy it, because it's not done being tested and assembled.
4. You can't dyno this car, period. SHAWD doesn't know how to handle the rollers, and you risk burning it up putting it on there.
5. I wouldn't have started the thread if it wasn't worth reading up on. Now if easyrider started it....
10-16-2012, 09:55 AM
#50
I'm definitely interested. Let's hope they really release it. Soon...
Also... What kind of hp will it really make? From my experience, even CAI don't make a ton of power on N/A cars...
Do we think the gains seen my the 3G people should carry over to the 4G?
Also... What kind of hp will it really make? From my experience, even CAI don't make a ton of power on N/A cars...
Do we think the gains seen my the 3G people should carry over to the 4G?
10-16-2012, 10:38 AM
#51
Actually here is a link to the dyno of a K&N SRI on a 08 Accord 3.5L. Gains should be similar, if not better, with the Icebox:
http://www.knfilters.com/dynocharts/69-1210_dyno.pdf
10-17-2012, 04:32 PM
#53
i am so smart S M R T
10-17-2012, 05:02 PM
#54
I would estimate around a 10 hp gain based on dynos we've seen of other Acura J series intakes. Also, keep in mind, you can dyno a FWD TL. The gains will be similar between the two engines.
Actually here is a link to the dyno of a K&N SRI on a 08 Accord 3.5L. Gains should be similar, if not better, with the Icebox:
http://www.knfilters.com/dynocharts/69-1210_dyno.pdf
Actually here is a link to the dyno of a K&N SRI on a 08 Accord 3.5L. Gains should be similar, if not better, with the Icebox:
http://www.knfilters.com/dynocharts/69-1210_dyno.pdf
if, however, these other J series cars you reference had very similar intake setups to the TL...then I am with you - and gains would be similar...
i guess the issue is - where is the bottleneck and how do you free it up to make more power? is the TL restricted by ints' instake s ystem, or is it limited by the exhaust?
and how much power can REALLY be had by totally freeing it up all arond - full bolt ons.. intake/ehxuast... do it all - how much can you really get out of this car above stock? 10hp, 20hp? 30hp?
if we do free up flow - will the Acura/Honda ECU just retard stuff though to bring it all back to stock levels? or will the car advance timing to adjust for more flow?
10-18-2012, 11:09 AM
#55
these cars that are showing 10hp gains..did they have a "cold air" style intake like teh SH-AWD has stock? if the newer style TL's have a cold air intake already...and the comparison you are making is to cars that did NOT have that.. then it's apples to oranges.
if, however, these other J series cars you reference had very similar intake setups to the TL...then I am with you - and gains would be similar...
i guess the issue is - where is the bottleneck and how do you free it up to make more power? is the TL restricted by ints' instake s ystem, or is it limited by the exhaust?
and how much power can REALLY be had by totally freeing it up all arond - full bolt ons.. intake/ehxuast... do it all - how much can you really get out of this car above stock? 10hp, 20hp? 30hp?
if we do free up flow - will the Acura/Honda ECU just retard stuff though to bring it all back to stock levels? or will the car advance timing to adjust for more flow?
if, however, these other J series cars you reference had very similar intake setups to the TL...then I am with you - and gains would be similar...
i guess the issue is - where is the bottleneck and how do you free it up to make more power? is the TL restricted by ints' instake s ystem, or is it limited by the exhaust?
and how much power can REALLY be had by totally freeing it up all arond - full bolt ons.. intake/ehxuast... do it all - how much can you really get out of this car above stock? 10hp, 20hp? 30hp?
if we do free up flow - will the Acura/Honda ECU just retard stuff though to bring it all back to stock levels? or will the car advance timing to adjust for more flow?
09 Acura TL 3.7:
08 Honda Accord 3.5:
As you can see they are very similar.
An engine is a big air pump. You can free up hp on any car by installing a properly designed intake and exhaust system. If a person were to do an intake, j-pipe, test pipe, and exhaust you should net 30 hp, if not more.
The ECU will adapt and although you may not be able to tune the ECU with a piggy back module it will not negate the gains made through hard modifications.
11-20-2012, 08:01 AM
#62
I'm fairly convinced that the MAF is the choke. I'll be curious to see what Comptech has done to work around this. The car already has a CAI from the factory; if they're gaining 10-15 ft/lbs across the powerband by changing out some plastic, my gut tells me it's all in how that MAF is reading things that makes the difference.
11-20-2012, 12:35 PM
#63
6G TLX-S
This is also very likely airflow dynamics.
By changing around the shape of the intake path, it creates some kind of venturi effect, similar to ram air or tuned port, which will drastically increase the flow rate (and thus overall volume) of the intake air going inside the engine.
By changing around the shape of the intake path, it creates some kind of venturi effect, similar to ram air or tuned port, which will drastically increase the flow rate (and thus overall volume) of the intake air going inside the engine.
11-20-2012, 03:51 PM
#66
i am so smart S M R T
11-21-2012, 05:19 AM
#67
The OTHER interesting bit that no one has chimed in about is that they're using a chassis dyno and getting real looking numbers, which as far as I can recall, is the first time there are any REAL SH-AWD TL numbers that have been published.
11-21-2012, 07:34 AM
#68
This is also very likely airflow dynamics.
By changing around the shape of the intake path, it creates some kind of venturi effect, similar to ram air or tuned port, which will drastically increase the flow rate (and thus overall volume) of the intake air going inside the engine.
By changing around the shape of the intake path, it creates some kind of venturi effect, similar to ram air or tuned port, which will drastically increase the flow rate (and thus overall volume) of the intake air going inside the engine.
Real is all relative when talking about dyno numbers. The main purpose is a baseline and results.
11-21-2012, 11:01 AM
#69
6G TLX-S
There are only two ways to create denser air. One is by lowering the air temperature, and the other is by force induction.
11-23-2012, 06:39 PM
#70
Instructor
Damn....and I was being soooo good about not spending more money on this car, keeping it stock. Looks like I'll be getting out my wallet after all.
I had Comptech's intake on my old CL-S and loved how nicely it fit, and wasn't obnoxious at all with sound. Curious to see this one.
I had Comptech's intake on my old CL-S and loved how nicely it fit, and wasn't obnoxious at all with sound. Curious to see this one.
11-24-2012, 09:45 AM
#73
I saw someone ask about a carbon fiber version, my question is will they even bother producing anything with any visual appeal? I mean whats the point when it will be completely covered by the trim in the engine bay?
11-24-2012, 08:57 PM
#75
6G TLX-S
Don't worry about some fancy enclosure material versions. Just release the damn normal plastic version first.
Put all effort in launching the very 1st box. Save the fancy options later on.
Put all effort in launching the very 1st box. Save the fancy options later on.
11-24-2012, 09:52 PM
#76
I'm with Edward'TLS - i could care less if it's carbon fiber or some other material - the fact that it will finally come out is sweet. if it truly makes the gains they are claiming - it will be a worthwhile mod!
CARB approval woudl be icing on the cake for us CA people.
What is the expected price point for this intake?
If it comes to market, the gains are as claimed, and the price is reasonable - I'm buying one.
CARB approval woudl be icing on the cake for us CA people.
What is the expected price point for this intake?
If it comes to market, the gains are as claimed, and the price is reasonable - I'm buying one.
11-29-2012, 06:42 AM
#77
Senior Moderator
These J series engines NEED air. Many (civic owners, 2ndgen tl/cl) are upgrading intake manifolds and throttle bodies and seeing huge gains, we have seen sizable gains going from the stock intake manifold to the 09+ and we have seen gains modifying intakes to allow more flow over what the 09+ make . We have started going to 2 65mm throttle bodies just to get enough air into the engine. Any type of intake for these motors ARE going to see gains. Looking at the stock intake pics its just like the 2g/3g where it is drawing warm air thru the resonator from the engine compartment. Seeing gains like this from this doesnt surprise me.
11-29-2012, 07:24 AM
#78
I would dispute that on the J37, and I maintain it's an ECU/sensor issue as I've done the ported/polished runners/ all the P2R gaskets, and the SRI - and felt relatively no results.
Having built a couple J32A2s - that motor is much more responsive to intake mods.
Having built a couple J32A2s - that motor is much more responsive to intake mods.
11-29-2012, 09:08 AM
#79
These J series engines NEED air. Many (civic owners, 2ndgen tl/cl) are upgrading intake manifolds and throttle bodies and seeing huge gains, we have seen sizable gains going from the stock intake manifold to the 09+ and we have seen gains modifying intakes to allow more flow over what the 09+ make . We have started going to 2 65mm throttle bodies just to get enough air into the engine. Any type of intake for these motors ARE going to see gains. Looking at the stock intake pics its just like the 2g/3g where it is drawing warm air thru the resonator from the engine compartment. Seeing gains like this from this doesnt surprise me.
I agree, the ported/polish runners do not provide a purpose on this motor. I made that claim way back when I first started testing the P2R products for them. The benefit for me is in the bored throttle body. That's the 'restriction' if you want to call it one. But that helped a lot.
11-30-2012, 06:57 AM
#80
Senior Moderator
And yes, the J32s did respond really well to intake mods as that is where acura is really getting more hp even on the 35s and 37s is by giving it a lot more air. I would be willing to bet that even with the stock ecu the J37 would see even better gains with a larger tb