So by now we're all aware that the speakers on the non-tech base TL leave significant room for improvement.

After having a few passengers point out the overall shittyness of the sound from the rear deck, I sat in the back and cranked all the sound to those speakers and I immediately felt horrible for subjecting people to such awful noise back there.

Since I'm right around 50k I figured I'd rather upgrade the whole setup than just get replacements for the stock speakers, including the sub.

I see a lot of people here upgrading their subs but most if not all seem to mount their new subs in an enclosure and move it into the trunk. I didn't want to sacrifice any trunk space, so I wanted to see if anyone here mounted an aftermarket sub in the rear deck where the OEM sub sits. Is there a reason that this wouldn't be a good idea?

 

I am in the same boat as you and wondered the same thing. I don't think there are many that have mounted an aftermarket sub in the rear deck because it would rattle like crazy. Maybe others will chime in eventually...

 

You can...put it's an 8". Shallow mount. Won't sound that much better than stock. It's not the only the sub...it's the low power going to it, so you would also need a better amp and wires.

 

Just to add to this post, the Tech based TL stock system is not much better! It's just incredible to me that Acura boasts so much about this system, and it lacks real EQ adjustments? The stock sub is simply wimpy. This 440watt system is great for my parents, but not for someone who wants some balls behind their sound.

 

Thanks guys. I had to jerry-rig it a bit using the plastic adapter that came with the factory sub. Just looking at that thing I absolutely understand why the stock sub rattles so damn much...I added some foam to it and mounted a JBL in the same spot. Definitely fixed the rattle, but I hear what you mean about the stock amp not being enough to push it. I get deeper bass and overall better sound for sure, but I know it could be a lot beefier.

On my last car I used one of those compact self-powered subs that you can just stick under a seat to save cargo space. Was definitely the best mod I did to that car haha.

 

It's time the 4G guys were introduced to infinite baffle (nearly identical to free air)

I bought my 3G new and by the time it had 20 miles on it I had installed a pair of 12W6s in a sealed enclosure in the trunk taken out of my other car. I was 28 and didn't mind the lost space. I eventually went ported then bandpass which ate up the majority of the trunk. By the time I was in my 30s I did not want any trunk space taken up for subs. This is where infinite baffle comes in.

It's just an MDF baffle mounted behind the rear seats with subs attached. It's just like the front of a traditional box but with no box. I started with my existing 12W6s which I had been running for 7 years so I know the subs well. The purpose was to get my trunk space back but in the first minute of listening to it I was in love. Nothing else will give such effortless, dynamic,'and deep bass while remaining quick and snappy. Power required is half or less as the same sub in a sealed enclosure. Without the air spring of a sealed enclosure, efficiency on the low end goes way up and cone control is improved (yes, a sealed box reduces cone control and accuracy, a damping reduction).

I've now got a pair of 15s that take up 7"'of trunk space at the magnets and almost no space anywhere else. I added only 34lbs for the pair of 15s plus a few lbs for two sheets of MDF. I have more than 90% of my original trunk volume available. I recently put two tires in the trunk to take to a shop to get mounted. I can go on trips with 4 adults and their luggage in the trunk (not the adults) lol.

What I have now is a lot of displacement and cone area. The 15s have virtually zero visible movement on normal music at reasonable levels for very low distortion and enough displacement in reserve that they can dig down to 20hz with authority and little power. They are punchy, tight, quick, all of the normal adjectives to describe a musical sub stage. They blend with the system and disappear. Sometimes you're not sure that they're even on until you turn them off but they will get stupid loud and low if you want them to. Most people think music ends at 40hz as I used to think. Having a system that will play flat to 18hz adds a whole new dimension to the music that I did not know existed. I tried out some pipe organ music and its just unreal. You can hear the standing waves building up in the Church and the nearly subsonic reverb from some of the larger pipes. You get a feeling of spaciousness and energy even when its at a frequency that's too low to hear well or at all.

Just something for everyone to consider since there's virtually no downside and you get the best of all worlds, well most worlds. SPL potential is the same as the same subs in a sealed enclosure but with far less power required. You get the advantages of larger subs in a large enclosure but without the downside of losing your trunk.

 

I want to try out IB in my 2001 TL, I am on Diyma and seen your work there and impressed with IB. I know not all subs are IB recommend, which would you recommend.

 

That 12W7 in your '01 sounds very nice IB. The W6 sounds very nice too.

 

Not a bad idea, I took the w7 out of my old tl five year ago its just sitting and collecting dust.

I have a w6v3 in the old and new TL right now. Might sell the w6v3 and go IB in the 2001.

I was reading one of your threads and you said there is more woofer control on the low end correct, so I could leave the subsonic filter off?

 

You get better cone control in IB because you don't have the air spring causing overshoot; the motor has better control of the cone. However, with the air spring gone, the efficiency on the low end is greatly increased meaning you will have more excursion on less power in IB.

The most excursion with the least power is a good thing and it's what you should shoot for. I know some people tout the reduced power handling of IB as a bad thing but it's a good thing. Movement of the cone produces sound. Once you've hit the maximum cone excursion that the sub can physically take, you're at full output, there's nothing else to give. It doesn't matter if it happens at 200w in an IB setup or 1,500w in a sealed setup, output will be the same with the same excursion.

You don't have to run a subsonic but it's not a bad idea especially in the beginning as you're getting used to the setup. There's no airspring to restrict movement and reduce efficiency so you can hit the mechanical limits of the subs pretty easily. A 30hz/24db should be all you will need. I don't run a subsonic filter but I spent a week with the rear seat out so I could keep an eye on the 15s and get a good idea of where to set the gains without hurting the subs. I can tell you for a fact, a 12W6v2 will bottom out at 280w in IB. That's roughly 25mm one way excursion and xmax is rated at 16.5mm.

One reason I really like the JL subs is their suspension and motors are second to none. I had my 12W6 waaay out past xmax, nearly to the point of bottoming it out mechanically and the motor and suspension were nearly dead silent. Most subs tend to get pretty noisy when you push them hard. The 12W7 is even better, more xmax and it has almost 4" of peak to peak excursion so you're not likely to bottom them out ever. You can push them to their limits and they remain smooth and quiet (the suspension and motor).

If you don't need the money, you may want to hang on to the subs you have until you listen to the new setup. I already had my 12W6s sold to a friend at the time I went IB but he told me to continue using them until he could make it to town to pick them up. I was told by JL not to use them IB but I did anyway. Within the first minute I loved it. I was so mad at myself for selling them before trying them IB. I've tried several others and I have what many consider the ultimate car IB sub, two of the Acoustic Elegance IB15s which is an amazing subwoofer. The inductance control is second to none (they will play past 4khz) and they're very efficient. I've had people tell me mine are louder with 250w each than their 1,500w sub stage was. These subs do everything very well but there was something about the W6 and W7 that I miss. Maybe it's a slight warmth in the bass, I don't know. My setup is dialed in and sounds great but I will eventually install a pair of 13W7s in their place.

One good thing about having a lot of displacement like the 12W7 or my pair of 15s is it reduces or eliminates the need for a subsonic filter. The more displacement, the less you have to worry about too much excursion on the low end.

 

Check out Fi IB subs... you can add the upgrades u want online and are made to order here in the US. No crap from Korea or China.

 

The Fi IB3 subs are designed for home IB. They do not work well in a trunk. Vas is very high and Qts is .7. In a trunk, Qtc would be pushed way too high and they will sound slow and peaky. Those who have tried them have not been happy. They need to be in a true IB configuration, not a trunk. They will get very loud and go boom but if you want smooth detailed bass they're the wrong subs.

The JL subs I mentioned are made in Florida and he already has them.

 

Thanks man, I will keep you updated.

I am in no rush to sell. I actually have total of 6 to 8 subs laying around from over the years.

2 12 w3v2s
2 10w0 (old school)
2 8W0s
1 12w6v2
1 12w7

From 1999 to 2004 I tried nearly 50 to 100 subs and JL was the one that never failed.

 

Thanks, all JL subs w3 and up are still American made

 

Just FYI, I too replace all speakers as well as the Sub on the rear deck. Sounds much better but here are a couple things to consider...the sub lacks bass (haven't add or swap the factory Amp as of yet too lazy) two...because of the larger magnet it (the sub)will throw your compass off, the sensor lives on the rear deck. Every now and then the compass direction reading on your dash will blink...a bit annoying. One of our AcuraZine teammates alerted me to this. But the new speaker do improve the sound tremendously! You won't be disappointed.

 

I also considered changing the speakers out my 09 tl tech. Specifically the four (2-front door and 2-rear deck) and leaving the stock amp. Then I though well the sub sucks and I can LOC and just add an amp for the single sub. Here is the problem I discovered with much investigating. The stock systems blow balls, period. But are engineered as a unit for the vehicle. The head units are so integrated that it is almost impossible to change. You cannot just change door speakers etc and expect much if anything and why spend the time and pull doors and decks seats apart in the rear and money on equipment.

This week Thursday I am going this route in system mod:

1)Audison bit Ten processor (OEM interface)
2)Arc Audio KS400.3 (ran at 4ohms 4 channels 100w ea)
3)Arc Audio KS1200.1 (ran at 2ohms 1 channel monoblock 1200w)
4)Hybrid Audio Imagine 4 total 6.5" coaxial speakers (2-front door and swap stock tweets, 2-rear deck leave tweets in speaker)
5)Sundown SA-12's 600w rms 4ohms each 2 total ran in paralell at 2ohms. I went cheaper here to save a bit. Will do Hertz down the road.
6)Box will be sealed but maybe ported but will see how the sound tuning goes and the car accoustics. The custom corner boxes ay be down the road but for now I will at least get tuned properly.
7)Entire (yes entire)trunk and will be Dynamat and where speakers and doors are installed.

So I started cheap and wanted to keep it simple like you. There is no simple with the stock garbage system.
My advice is to have a custom install from a professional and change the 2 front door speakers and 2 rear deck speakers and go with a good amp and quality oem interface (not a cheap ass LOC). It sounds like you want sound quality well with the stock system by design bass and sound changes with volume adjustment so an interface is critical. For about 1400.00 you can change your entire sound of your vehicle and drop a DVC single 10" sub in your trunk later. The imagines are nice because they allow removal of the tweets and can swap those garbage stock ones out without added cost. Bottom line is you'll spend 300-400 buck for nothing and time and risk ripping your car apart. Spend a little more and do it right.

 

I don't know how it is in the 4g but in the 3g if you're going with an aftermarket processor (I have the PS8), all you need to grab is the front left and right pre-amp signals. They're full range and they carry the HFL and Bluetooth signals. You can run the center into the processor for navi commands if you choose to. With the processor it's extremely easy. That's assuming you don't want rear speakers which those going for SQ don't use 99% of the time. Having an actual stage in front of you where you can "see" right where the singer is and where each instrument is placed on the stage totally changes the listening experience and that's extremely hard to pull off with rears in the mix.

For someone only wanting to add a sub, using a LOC off of the factory sub wires to an amp is perfectly fine.

 

Hi guys - If anyone's interested, since I had so much trouble finding the schematics for a 2009 base, I called an Acura dealership and got them, which turned out a lot easier than I thought it would be. Completely expecting a "we don't give that out, but come in and buy something and we'll see what we can do" spiel, but he was ready to mail them to be before he figured out how to PDF the doc and then emailed it to me. Anyway, if anyone wants them you can grab them here: http://www.flippydigits.com/docs/200...schematics.pdf
These are just for the Base 09 non-tech (but looks like SH-AWD is included) Hope it helps since I've always had a bad feeling about phase after replacing all of my speakers and tapping an amp/sub into the stock sub wiring, and really didn't want to tear it apart again. I am now going to again though to replace the fronts with Kappas instead of References - not impressed with the References although I have a Focal 2ch amp for them so will try that first and see if things improve. I dug around so much for these and all I had to do was make a 5 minute phone call =]

 

@Fireatwill and IronChicken

In for updates on where your systems are at now and how they sound? Were the infinity Kappas an improvement over the References? Anybody have success in just replacing door speakers with the over all system sounding nice and balanced at least at low to medium volume? Which door speakers work best?