Wish the TL had a heated steering wheel
12-03-2010, 07:23 PM
#41
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ3dMAYwX5M
maxima has more power, standard smart key, more features like heated steering wheel, cooled seats, hard drive, dual moon roof, driver seat entry system(steering wheel and chair move away from each other for easy entry), rear seat temp and audio control, power steering wheel, nav with dvd play back feature, and more.. for less than TL..
http://www.nissanusa.com/maxima/packaged-options.html
and if you drive a RWD G37, you wonder why TL is still FWD and shares the parts with accord..
maxima has more power, standard smart key, more features like heated steering wheel, cooled seats, hard drive, dual moon roof, driver seat entry system(steering wheel and chair move away from each other for easy entry), rear seat temp and audio control, power steering wheel, nav with dvd play back feature, and more.. for less than TL..
http://www.nissanusa.com/maxima/packaged-options.html
and if you drive a RWD G37, you wonder why TL is still FWD and shares the parts with accord..
12-03-2010, 08:25 PM
#42
The Germans will always charge you an arm and a leg for basic items. Until Acura has that level of prestige they should never do that. And of course I agree with the assertion that cars are all overpriced today, but some are more so than others. We aren't FORCED to pay for those cars. Case in point, I won't buy the 2009-to-2011 TL. If they fix the feature hole I personally feel it has with the 2012 TL, then I will gladly reconsider. Until then I have been favoring sedans that are brimming with more technology for the same price. Neither of them will outhandle the TL but that's but one category, and frankly that and prestige are not enough for me. Considering the TL's sales of the current generation as a whole, the market seems to agree to a point.
A FWD LaCrosse CXS, TL FWD tech 18 and Maxima SV all loaded, top out at around $40k each, it’s not like Acura wants $50k. They may have dropped the full Tier 1 effort but they understand you can’t appear to be giving the house away if you do not want to be considered bottom of the barrel luxury.
I find it a little hypocritical that you would probably defend a $20k higher price tag of a comparably equipped AWD mid level over a TL SH but then suggest the TL is not worth it compared to a Maxima or LaCrosse because of a few features while still excelling in a few other areas and being similarly priced.
TL models have increased MSRP’s but FWD tech's go for $34k and SH tech’s go for $37k. My SH despite having a higher MSRP and sales price is actually cheaper then my old TLS all said and done, which was bought mid year, not year end. That is with the same money down and term. It's a better value, maybe timing and economic conditions contribute to that but it doesn't change the fact. The SH is still well worth the $4k higher sticker considering what is in there but it being cheaper made it even better. The going rates are the same as the 3G models and have more attractive financing so it’s not actually more, most of the time it’s less.
I did a comparison of available incentives minus invoice prices on all three 2010 loaded FWD models plus available lease and finance rates. The TL tech/18 is $34,871, the Maxima SV is $33,556, and the LaCrosse CXS is $37,510. The LaCrosse does not have as high a mark up from invoice and is not as heavily discounted but comparable models that are as similarly equipped as possible are still no cheaper than the TL model, in fact they can be more expensive in the actual marketplace and not on paper. I don’t care about why it is that way, the bottom-line is that the sales prices are the same or cheaper in the TL. Acura interest rates are also lower and 10/11’ leases are slightly better right now to top it off.
So the TL actually ends up costing the same as the Maxima after the cheaper lease and finance rates and the Lacrosse, despite showing some of the cheaper stickers is actually more money. These are obviously different business strategies that consumers needs to learn how to decipher. Also, Acura has not had to be bailed out so I wouldn't expect anything but an all out effort from Buick but it’s not as great as it seems.
Now that we know the going rates are largely the same or better but not worse despite the MSRP’s, it changes the perspective but doesn’t change that the LaCrosse and Maxima come with more popular features but they instead lack in internals. They use struts, Acura gives you double wishbone, they don't seem as solidly built IMO, chassis and components are not as performance engineered, and the Acura warranty is valuable and offers more savings in itself. Others areas are resale, crash test , and reliability where the TL and Maxima are favored over the LaCrosse, hard to say which of the two excel (and where) after that though and there is a bunch of purely subjective categories as well.
If you are not concerned with that and prefer more features than you probably won't care but there is no law that says resources have to be dedicated to features only and the lack of doesn’t make the TL a worse car or value by itself and doesn’t have to automatically mean that they must have cut corners. Don’t get me wrong I want more features and a low cost as much as the next guy but like you said about handling being only one category, that is no different than features.
12-03-2010, 08:26 PM
#43
Instructor
Having owned my 11 TL for a month now, there are some items that I feel the car lacks. I looked at a number of vehicles in the TL price class and know some of the features could be offered without increasing the sticker price substantially. Many of the cars I looked at had some or all of the features I will mention. After shopping, I got the best deal on the TL. I like the car, but with anything, improvements could be made. I think we can all agree, for the money, the TL is a great driving, feature packed car with a very unique style. However, here is my wish list. A new tilt wheel is first on my list. Even if the new wheel is not a power tilt and telescope, certainly there has to be a better set-up that the current arrangement. I'm going to throw in the heated feature too for good measure. Next, more "soft touch" interior panels. While the general styling of the interior is handsome and high tech looking, some of the materials used on the dash and door panels look like they should be in a less expensive car. The same goes for the carpeting. The console is very small compared to other cars I've owned including a 2001 CL. Speaking of the console, I do like the small drawer on the edge of the lid. My Motorola Droid fits perfectly there. However, there is no way to route the charger cord in the drawer. If there is a way, I have not found it. Already mentioned are the ventilated seats. Cars costing less than the TL have this feature. Puddle lights mounted at the bottom of the outside rear view mirrors. A nice feature. The TL does have lamps mounted on the bottom of the door to light up the ground when you step out of the car, but the lights are really to dim to be of much help. A keyless remote that works on all four doors handles when touched, not just the front two. The current design of the trunk hinges take up too much room in the trunk. If my TL had these improvement I would be 100% satisfied. As it is, I'm 99.99999999999% satisfied.
Last edited by Linmk2; 12-03-2010 at 08:35 PM.
12-03-2010, 10:04 PM
#44
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The thing is Acura doesn't exactly do what the Germans do and they are not exactly up to that level of prestige either but that shouldn’t be an excuse for anyone but Acura does offer more prestige than a Buick, Hyundai, Ford, and Nissan but that is not why we see less features, most of the resources are simply represented in other areas. If you don’t care for that and simply want features, I understand completely. It just could be and is worse in other instances.
A FWD LaCrosse CXS, TL FWD tech 18 and Maxima SV all loaded, top out at around $40k each, it’s not like Acura wants $50k. They may have dropped the full Tier 1 effort but they understand you can’t appear to be giving the house away if you do not want to be considered bottom of the barrel luxury.
I find it a little hypocritical that you would probably defend a $20k higher price tag of a comparably equipped AWD mid level over a TL SH but then suggest the TL is not worth it compared to a Maxima or LaCrosse because of a few features while still excelling in a few other areas and being similarly priced.
TL models have increased MSRP’s but FWD tech's go for $34k and SH tech’s go for $37k. My SH despite having a higher MSRP and sales price is actually cheaper then my old TLS all said and done, which was bought mid year, not year end. That is with the same money down and term. It's a better value, maybe timing and economic conditions contribute to that but it doesn't change the fact. The SH is still well worth the $4k higher sticker considering what is in there but it being cheaper made it even better. The going rates are the same as the 3G models and have more attractive financing so it’s not actually more, most of the time it’s less.
I did a comparison of available incentives minus invoice prices on all three 2010 loaded FWD models plus available lease and finance rates. The TL tech/18 is $34,871, the Maxima SV is $33,556, and the LaCrosse CXS is $37,510. The LaCrosse does not have as high a mark up from invoice and is not as heavily discounted but comparable models that are as similarly equipped as possible are still no cheaper than the TL model, in fact they can be more expensive in the actual marketplace and not on paper. I don’t care about why it is that way, the bottom-line is that the sales prices are the same or cheaper in the TL. Acura interest rates are also lower and 10/11’ leases are slightly better right now to top it off.
So the TL actually ends up costing the same as the Maxima after the cheaper lease and finance rates and the Lacrosse, despite showing some of the cheaper stickers is actually more money. These are obviously different business strategies that consumers needs to learn how to decipher. Also, Acura has not had to be bailed out so I wouldn't expect anything but an all out effort from Buick but it’s not as great as it seems.
Now that we know the going rates are largely the same or better but not worse despite the MSRP’s, it changes the perspective but doesn’t change that the LaCrosse and Maxima come with more popular features but they instead lack in internals. They use struts, Acura gives you double wishbone, they don't seem as solidly built IMO, chassis and components are not as performance engineered, and the Acura warranty is valuable and offers more savings in itself. Others areas are resale, crash test , and reliability where the TL and Maxima are favored over the LaCrosse, hard to say which of the two excel (and where) after that though and there is a bunch of purely subjective categories as well.
If you are not concerned with that and prefer more features than you probably won't care but there is no law that says resources have to be dedicated to features only and the lack of doesn’t make the TL a worse car or value by itself and doesn’t have to automatically mean that they must have cut corners. Don’t get me wrong I want more features and a low cost as much as the next guy but like you said about handling being only one category, that is no different than features.
A FWD LaCrosse CXS, TL FWD tech 18 and Maxima SV all loaded, top out at around $40k each, it’s not like Acura wants $50k. They may have dropped the full Tier 1 effort but they understand you can’t appear to be giving the house away if you do not want to be considered bottom of the barrel luxury.
I find it a little hypocritical that you would probably defend a $20k higher price tag of a comparably equipped AWD mid level over a TL SH but then suggest the TL is not worth it compared to a Maxima or LaCrosse because of a few features while still excelling in a few other areas and being similarly priced.
TL models have increased MSRP’s but FWD tech's go for $34k and SH tech’s go for $37k. My SH despite having a higher MSRP and sales price is actually cheaper then my old TLS all said and done, which was bought mid year, not year end. That is with the same money down and term. It's a better value, maybe timing and economic conditions contribute to that but it doesn't change the fact. The SH is still well worth the $4k higher sticker considering what is in there but it being cheaper made it even better. The going rates are the same as the 3G models and have more attractive financing so it’s not actually more, most of the time it’s less.
I did a comparison of available incentives minus invoice prices on all three 2010 loaded FWD models plus available lease and finance rates. The TL tech/18 is $34,871, the Maxima SV is $33,556, and the LaCrosse CXS is $37,510. The LaCrosse does not have as high a mark up from invoice and is not as heavily discounted but comparable models that are as similarly equipped as possible are still no cheaper than the TL model, in fact they can be more expensive in the actual marketplace and not on paper. I don’t care about why it is that way, the bottom-line is that the sales prices are the same or cheaper in the TL. Acura interest rates are also lower and 10/11’ leases are slightly better right now to top it off.
So the TL actually ends up costing the same as the Maxima after the cheaper lease and finance rates and the Lacrosse, despite showing some of the cheaper stickers is actually more money. These are obviously different business strategies that consumers needs to learn how to decipher. Also, Acura has not had to be bailed out so I wouldn't expect anything but an all out effort from Buick but it’s not as great as it seems.
Now that we know the going rates are largely the same or better but not worse despite the MSRP’s, it changes the perspective but doesn’t change that the LaCrosse and Maxima come with more popular features but they instead lack in internals. They use struts, Acura gives you double wishbone, they don't seem as solidly built IMO, chassis and components are not as performance engineered, and the Acura warranty is valuable and offers more savings in itself. Others areas are resale, crash test , and reliability where the TL and Maxima are favored over the LaCrosse, hard to say which of the two excel (and where) after that though and there is a bunch of purely subjective categories as well.
If you are not concerned with that and prefer more features than you probably won't care but there is no law that says resources have to be dedicated to features only and the lack of doesn’t make the TL a worse car or value by itself and doesn’t have to automatically mean that they must have cut corners. Don’t get me wrong I want more features and a low cost as much as the next guy but like you said about handling being only one category, that is no different than features.
I won't consider incentives or anything because depending upon one's region they can be subject to change. Furthermore you could say that the TL selling for less is proof that the buying public agrees that the TL is not worth the price, while they do feel the ATP $37,000 Buick is worth it (compared to a FWD/TP TL). It's full of subjectives, but as always you can spin the facts.
There's also no evidence that I said it was "okay" for the Germans to charge more. I made a thread several months ago and after driving the E-Class and some other more expensive cars, I concluded they were definitely better than the lower end cars I looked at (including the TL, Lacrosse, Genesis, and CC). However, I was not willing to pay the premium. Clearly then, I do not defend what the Germans charge if I myself am not even willing to step up to their plate. I have never myself owned a German car, although my wife has (second Audi).
12-04-2010, 02:14 AM
#45
To compare the cars most closely you'd have a $39,000 TL FWD/TP, $39,000 Maxima SV Premium, and $40,000 Lacrosse CXS. I compare these three because they are the closest priced models with similarly powered V6s and front drive. The Acura has no significant price advantage to these two but trails handily in features. Now aside from that it's subjective to who's the best. The Buick is ultra smooth and quiet, and the other two are comfortable but sportier. I will leave that up to taste. But there's no doubt they're all roughly about as good, feature value aside . . . . but then when you factor features in I personally find the TL to be at a disadvantage. There's no way around that, but like I said features alone do not the better car make.
I won't consider incentives or anything because depending upon one's region they can be subject to change. Furthermore you could say that the TL selling for less is proof that the buying public agrees that the TL is not worth the price, while they do feel the ATP $37,000 Buick is worth it (compared to a FWD/TP TL). It's full of subjective, but as always you can spin the facts.
I am really not spinning anything, those are the facts for many regions although I understand it varies but the other part of my point has to do with invoice pricing, there is no variation to that. The Buick simply has little mark up from invoice and is where you will save the least money negotiating.
The same models as mentioned earlier, without incentives, show invoice for the same TL (18in) at $37,871, the Maxima at $35,756, and the Buick at $38,760. Can't speak for everyone but I can speak for many when I say that in my area a TL SH, including the 6MT, sells for the same price if not less than the Buick CSX loaded and offers cheaper financing at the same time right now. That is the honest truth, no spinning involved. That certainly brings another aspect of consideration for those who might not mind the added performance and torque vectoring AWD. In other perspectives, a TL SH at the same $37k is also a tremendous value and is well worth it regardless of why the pricing is the way it is.
We can say it's because people don't feel the list price is worth it, I am sure there is truth to that, also the controversial styling but we could also say Acura is trying to modify their image, not only by brand recognition through a bold corporate grill but also similarly to how they do it in Canada by overpricing the MSRP's and in turn heavily discounting. There is no reason for them to be so expensive there, as it is not a reflection of the exchange rate but on a few levels it's as effective as the opposite approach because people feel they are saving tremendously, or stealing in fact and the higher price makes the car seem more prestigious.
We also hear a lot of the opposite from members up there as well but the last time I checked (which literally was a few months back) Acura was the number 2 selling luxury brand in Canada and Canadian reviewers were not afraid to list a certain Acura as an appropriate competitor to another particular luxury vehicle, where people here would shit a brick to see them compared in a major US publication. I am not saying who is right or wrong in either case, just think it is appropriate to the discussion and I am sure it has to do with a little bit of everything.
I also have taken notice to the fact that popular competitor cars like the LaCrosse, ES, and Maxima all feature a FWD model as their top on the line product or showcase which Acura used to have in the previous TL generations and also how many of them are following in Acura's footsteps of the 3G TL and are nearly as successful minus the economic differences.
Having been a two time owner of that generation and seeing what is available now, I can sympathize with many previous generation owners on the issue that Acura has almost abandoned that particular market. I mean they have a FWD TL and it is a very good product but it now seems neglected a bit with Acura featuring the SH version instead.
To a degree that has to be somewhat normal but it seems they took the previous successes and used that to go in another direction instead of build upon an already proven recipe. If they follow through with what is now a half transition then it should be the biggest thing they did for the brand but if not, it will prove to be a costly gamble. Again, not saying it's right or wrong but only time will tell if that was the right move for the brand or not.
There's also no evidence that I said it was "okay" for the Germans to charge more. I made a thread several months ago and after driving the E-Class and some other more expensive cars, I concluded they were definitely better than the lower end cars I looked at (including the TL, Lacrosse, Genesis, and CC). However, I was not willing to pay the premium. Clearly then, I do not defend what the Germans charge if I myself am not even willing to step up to their plate. I have never myself owned a German car, although my wife has (second Audi).
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 12-04-2010 at 02:19 AM.
12-04-2010, 02:44 AM
#46
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We are comparing the same models except I added 18's to the TL because the others have them and I do agree that the Acura is the worst of that group with regards to features to dollar.
The region and price variation is a fair point although I doubt there is too much difference to that as the LaCrosse and Maxima are quite popular all over and are less incentivized in general but then again they do have much cheaper base price points, which is another issue with the TL. I only bring it up because it's something a consumer who is cross shopping and comparing should consider especially for their area.
I am really not spinning anything, those are the facts for many regions although I understand it varies but the other part of my point has to do with invoice pricing, there is no variation to that. The Buick simply has little mark up from invoice and is where you will save the least money negotiating.
The same models as mentioned earlier, without incentives, show invoice for the same TL (18in) at $37,871, the Maxima at $35,756, and the Buick at $38,760. Can't speak for everyone but I can speak for many when I say that in my area a TL SH, including the 6MT, sells for the same price if not less than the Buick CSX loaded and offers cheaper financing at the same time right now. That is the honest truth, no spinning involved. That certainly brings another aspect of consideration for those who might not mind the added performance and torque vectoring AWD. In other perspectives, a TL SH at the same $37k is also a tremendous value and is well worth it regardless of why the pricing is the way it is.
We can say it's because people don't feel the list price is worth it, I am sure there is truth to that, also the controversial styling but we could also say Acura is trying to modify their image, not only by brand recognition through a bold corporate grill but also similarly to how they do it in Canada by overpricing the MSRP's and in turn heavily discounting. There is no reason for them to be so expensive there, as it is not a reflection of the exchange rate but on a few levels it's as effective as the opposite approach because people feel they are saving tremendously, or stealing in fact and the higher price makes the car seem more prestigious.
We also hear a lot of the opposite from members up there as well but the last time I checked (which literally was a few months back) Acura was the number 2 selling luxury brand in Canada and Canadian reviewers were not afraid to list a certain Acura as an appropriate competitor to another particular luxury vehicle, where people here would shit a brick to see them compared in a major US publication. I am not saying who is right or wrong in either case, just think it is appropriate to the discussion and I am sure it has to do with a little bit of everything.
I also have taken notice to the fact that popular competitor cars like the LaCrosse, ES, and Maxima all feature a FWD model as their top on the line product or showcase which Acura used to have in the previous TL generations and also how many of them are following in Acura's footsteps of the 3G TL and are nearly as successful minus the economic differences.
Having been a two time owner of that generation and seeing what is available now, I can sympathize with many previous generation owners on the issue that Acura has almost abandoned that particular market. I mean they have a FWD TL and it is a very good product but it now seems neglected a bit with Acura featuring the SH version instead.
To a degree that has to be somewhat normal but it seems they took the previous successes and used that to go in another direction instead of build upon an already proven recipe. If they follow through with what is now a half transition then it should be the biggest thing they did for the brand but if not, it will prove to be a costly gamble. Again, not saying it's right or wrong but only time will tell if that was the right move for the brand or not.
You're right, I just recalling having the same discussion about the TL SH 6MT and the last gen 5 series with you defending the opposite instead but you have expressed a similar position on that and the context of the discussions are probably different, so I take that back.
The region and price variation is a fair point although I doubt there is too much difference to that as the LaCrosse and Maxima are quite popular all over and are less incentivized in general but then again they do have much cheaper base price points, which is another issue with the TL. I only bring it up because it's something a consumer who is cross shopping and comparing should consider especially for their area.
I am really not spinning anything, those are the facts for many regions although I understand it varies but the other part of my point has to do with invoice pricing, there is no variation to that. The Buick simply has little mark up from invoice and is where you will save the least money negotiating.
The same models as mentioned earlier, without incentives, show invoice for the same TL (18in) at $37,871, the Maxima at $35,756, and the Buick at $38,760. Can't speak for everyone but I can speak for many when I say that in my area a TL SH, including the 6MT, sells for the same price if not less than the Buick CSX loaded and offers cheaper financing at the same time right now. That is the honest truth, no spinning involved. That certainly brings another aspect of consideration for those who might not mind the added performance and torque vectoring AWD. In other perspectives, a TL SH at the same $37k is also a tremendous value and is well worth it regardless of why the pricing is the way it is.
We can say it's because people don't feel the list price is worth it, I am sure there is truth to that, also the controversial styling but we could also say Acura is trying to modify their image, not only by brand recognition through a bold corporate grill but also similarly to how they do it in Canada by overpricing the MSRP's and in turn heavily discounting. There is no reason for them to be so expensive there, as it is not a reflection of the exchange rate but on a few levels it's as effective as the opposite approach because people feel they are saving tremendously, or stealing in fact and the higher price makes the car seem more prestigious.
We also hear a lot of the opposite from members up there as well but the last time I checked (which literally was a few months back) Acura was the number 2 selling luxury brand in Canada and Canadian reviewers were not afraid to list a certain Acura as an appropriate competitor to another particular luxury vehicle, where people here would shit a brick to see them compared in a major US publication. I am not saying who is right or wrong in either case, just think it is appropriate to the discussion and I am sure it has to do with a little bit of everything.
I also have taken notice to the fact that popular competitor cars like the LaCrosse, ES, and Maxima all feature a FWD model as their top on the line product or showcase which Acura used to have in the previous TL generations and also how many of them are following in Acura's footsteps of the 3G TL and are nearly as successful minus the economic differences.
Having been a two time owner of that generation and seeing what is available now, I can sympathize with many previous generation owners on the issue that Acura has almost abandoned that particular market. I mean they have a FWD TL and it is a very good product but it now seems neglected a bit with Acura featuring the SH version instead.
To a degree that has to be somewhat normal but it seems they took the previous successes and used that to go in another direction instead of build upon an already proven recipe. If they follow through with what is now a half transition then it should be the biggest thing they did for the brand but if not, it will prove to be a costly gamble. Again, not saying it's right or wrong but only time will tell if that was the right move for the brand or not.
You're right, I just recalling having the same discussion about the TL SH 6MT and the last gen 5 series with you defending the opposite instead but you have expressed a similar position on that and the context of the discussions are probably different, so I take that back.
I have some faith that the 2012 TL will alleviate some of this missteps.
12-04-2010, 11:20 AM
#47
Burning Brakes
MyCar, Why not just buy a Maxima or a Buick instead of creating a Wishlist of features that you would want in an uglier car? 
Its not like there aren't enough choices these days...
Its not like there aren't enough choices these days...
12-04-2010, 12:08 PM
#48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ3dMAYwX5M
maxima has more power, standard smart key, more features like heated steering wheel, cooled seats, hard drive, dual moon roof, driver seat entry system(steering wheel and chair move away from each other for easy entry), rear seat temp and audio control, power steering wheel, nav with dvd play back feature, and more.. for less than TL..
http://www.nissanusa.com/maxima/packaged-options.html
and if you drive a RWD G37, you wonder why TL is still FWD and shares the parts with accord..
maxima has more power, standard smart key, more features like heated steering wheel, cooled seats, hard drive, dual moon roof, driver seat entry system(steering wheel and chair move away from each other for easy entry), rear seat temp and audio control, power steering wheel, nav with dvd play back feature, and more.. for less than TL..
http://www.nissanusa.com/maxima/packaged-options.html
and if you drive a RWD G37, you wonder why TL is still FWD and shares the parts with accord..
12-04-2010, 01:47 PM
#49
Wow two pages of wish lists. Do the Acura designers troll this for ideas, or get turned off by the banter. I think you all should start another thread for the Blank vs Acura stuff. Maxima is a nice ride. I would love to jump on that discussion if you all started that one.
12-04-2010, 04:07 PM
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That's why I had been really counting on the 2009 TL. And I don't think the TL is ugly. It's not as good looking as the Nissan I guess, but with the RJ grille it looks good to me. I must be one of the three people in existence who is neither offended nor in love with the styling of the 4G.
I tried the CC VR6 4M on for size but with my needs of room for four adults as often as I do it was a little cramped, but I still have it on my list. I am waiting for the 2012 SHO because it's supposed to receive numerous changes and if they sort it out a bit I might be sold. It's already a great car. The 2012 Genesis 5.0 could make my cut too. And to be honest I'd consider either of the new rear drive Chryslers because it seems like they might be really nice.
I'm all over the board, I know.
12-04-2010, 04:08 PM
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Wow two pages of wish lists. Do the Acura designers troll this for ideas, or get turned off by the banter. I think you all should start another thread for the Blank vs Acura stuff. Maxima is a nice ride. I would love to jump on that discussion if you all started that one.
12-04-2010, 04:31 PM
#52
Burning Brakes
I was hoping to move away from front drive. I do like the Buick but I still prefer a bit more edginess, or I guess you'd call it "sportiness". I had a 2002 ES300 and loved it, but since the 2004 TL I've been liking a tighter feeling ride. The Maxima is nice but I hate the CVT and it's still front drive too.
That's why I had been really counting on the 2009 TL. And I don't think the TL is ugly. It's not as good looking as the Nissan I guess, but with the RJ grille it looks good to me. I must be one of the three people in existence who is neither offended nor in love with the styling of the 4G.
I tried the CC VR6 4M on for size but with my needs of room for four adults as often as I do it was a little cramped, but I still have it on my list. I am waiting for the 2012 SHO because it's supposed to receive numerous changes and if they sort it out a bit I might be sold. It's already a great car. The 2012 Genesis 5.0 could make my cut too. And to be honest I'd consider either of the new rear drive Chryslers because it seems like they might be really nice.
I'm all over the board, I know.
That's why I had been really counting on the 2009 TL. And I don't think the TL is ugly. It's not as good looking as the Nissan I guess, but with the RJ grille it looks good to me. I must be one of the three people in existence who is neither offended nor in love with the styling of the 4G.
I tried the CC VR6 4M on for size but with my needs of room for four adults as often as I do it was a little cramped, but I still have it on my list. I am waiting for the 2012 SHO because it's supposed to receive numerous changes and if they sort it out a bit I might be sold. It's already a great car. The 2012 Genesis 5.0 could make my cut too. And to be honest I'd consider either of the new rear drive Chryslers because it seems like they might be really nice.
I'm all over the board, I know.
Maxima = CVT/FWD
TL = Beak
SHO = Weight
CC = VW stigma
Genesis = No Badge
New Chrysler = Weight/Resale
Pick your poison
Or just get a Cadillac CTS
12-04-2010, 05:32 PM
#53
Drifting
As I was reading thru that I thought, why not a CTS? The only two cars I would get rid of my TL for are a BMW M3 and a CTS-V Wagon.... That's right, wagon.
12-05-2010, 12:54 AM
#54
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I know what you're saying, just that in my case they're non-issues. The CTS is a very nice car, although the rear seat is fairly small and it's more expensive compared to all of these cars when comparably equipped. Again, still a very nice car.
12-05-2010, 01:38 AM
#55
Burning Brakes
These are Canadian prices but it gives you a rough estimate. A Gen V8 comes standard with Tech Package. Its a frickin bargain compared to the others if you dont care about badge. Love the CTS but its ridiculously overpriced...55k for the Ford is a joke.
300C and TL are decently priced IMO.
TL-SH AWD = $45k
SHO = $55k
Gen V8 = $50k
300C = $40k
CTS DI V6 = $49k
300C and TL are decently priced IMO.
TL-SH AWD = $45k
SHO = $55k
Gen V8 = $50k
300C = $40k
CTS DI V6 = $49k
12-05-2010, 09:47 AM
#56
The Sicilian
I still think the Maxima is the biggest bang for the buck. I've had 2 Maximas and was very happy with them. I would still consider a 3rd depending on what they do for 2012. My wife really loves and misses her Max as well since we gave it to my daughter.
12-05-2010, 01:08 PM
#57
Drifting
Maxima is a nice car - I liked mine a lot. But they'd have to get rid of that frickin' CVT for me to think about another one. Mine was a 5MT. Very reliable (although it did get a rust perforation under the trunk weatherstripping).
12-05-2010, 06:14 PM
#58
Nissan is not going to be getting rid of the CVT, it is here to stay. If not, they would not have extended the warranty on it for 10yrs/120k miles.
12-06-2010, 08:56 AM
#59
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All the cars mentioned have their pros and cons. After having the CVT for 15k miles so far, I don't see it as a con on the car and in fact, it has yielded me incredible mpg for 290HP. It just takes a little time to get used to. From what I've read on the Maxima forums, the kinks that the 1st Gen CVT have been worked out and very few people are having issues with post 2009 CVT.
Nissan is not going to be getting rid of the CVT, it is here to stay. If not, they would not have extended the warranty on it for 10yrs/120k miles.
Nissan is not going to be getting rid of the CVT, it is here to stay. If not, they would not have extended the warranty on it for 10yrs/120k miles.
CVT reliability was a bit spotty at first, but you're right that it has improved. I don't think the reliability is the problem (automatic transmissions have tons of problems themselves). But still, I think the cost and weight are big problems, but not as big as the fact that we don't see big mileage advantages to the pavement.
It's not a slam to CVTs or anyone who has a vehicle with one. The CVT works great in your car, you like, that's all that matters right? There's nothing wrong with liking a CVT. It's just that for me, CVTs haven't shown the widespread advantages that 6+ gears, dual clutches, or similar types of transmissions. Might they improve? Certainly, and that's why I refuse to call CVTs doomed. Who knows what breakthrough might happen?
Last edited by MyCarIsntInMyWifesName; 12-06-2010 at 09:05 AM.
12-06-2010, 01:35 PM
#60
I wonder how long Nissan sticks with the CVT. For now they haven't seen much of an advantage, and I firmly believe that's why few automakers are pursuing them outside of hybrids, and even some recent hybrids are going without the CVT. As our cars get more and more gears you might see CVT usage drop.
CVT reliability was a bit spotty at first, but you're right that it has improved. I don't think the reliability is the problem (automatic transmissions have tons of problems themselves). But still, I think the cost and weight are big problems, but not as big as the fact that we don't see big mileage advantages to the pavement.
It's not a slam to CVTs or anyone who has a vehicle with one. The CVT works great in your car, you like, that's all that matters right? There's nothing wrong with liking a CVT. It's just that for me, CVTs haven't shown the widespread advantages that 6+ gears, dual clutches, or similar types of transmissions. Might they improve? Certainly, and that's why I refuse to call CVTs doomed. Who knows what breakthrough might happen?
CVT reliability was a bit spotty at first, but you're right that it has improved. I don't think the reliability is the problem (automatic transmissions have tons of problems themselves). But still, I think the cost and weight are big problems, but not as big as the fact that we don't see big mileage advantages to the pavement.
It's not a slam to CVTs or anyone who has a vehicle with one. The CVT works great in your car, you like, that's all that matters right? There's nothing wrong with liking a CVT. It's just that for me, CVTs haven't shown the widespread advantages that 6+ gears, dual clutches, or similar types of transmissions. Might they improve? Certainly, and that's why I refuse to call CVTs doomed. Who knows what breakthrough might happen?
12-06-2010, 04:09 PM
#61
so, we've arrived from wishing for a heated steering wheel in the TL to the CVT transmission in the Maxima? lol... 
12-06-2010, 04:53 PM
#62
12-15-2010, 01:46 PM
#63
Cruisin'
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geez....there's a reason why I bought my current TL and my previous RL and the TL before that over the other cars that were/are available. Price, drive (suspension, steering, acceleration), Acura reputation in all it's glory (reliability, it's prestige over some others etc.), the awd system offered, tech features inside, the style on the inside and outside (yeah, I said it, I like the look) all took part in my decision to buy another when there are so many choices out there. Good choice for me, maybe bad for you. But then again, you're probably not as cool as I am.
12-15-2010, 02:16 PM
#64
Cruisin'
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As comfortable as the TL is, I was thinking it would really be nice to have the heated steering wheel.
Of course, I just bought an almost fully loaded BMW 335xi and it doesn't have that either.
Of course, I just bought an almost fully loaded BMW 335xi and it doesn't have that either.
12-17-2010, 11:38 AM
#65
Drifting
If you assume that the Lexus GS350 is a competitor, then there should atleast be power folding mirrors, power tilt and telescoping steering wheel, heated and cooled seats, power rear sunshade and front and rear distance monitors all of which the GS has.
02-19-2011, 07:08 AM
#66
Suzuka Master
I have to say I never thought I woudl care abaout a heater wheel, but my M37S has it and on some of the cold days I tried it and I liked it. It would be nice ont he TL, but I can live without it, adaptive cruise would be higher on my wish list.
02-19-2011, 10:21 PM
#67
I have to admit this whole therad has been very amusing. At first I thought this was a joke and then as I read I realized that some of you are serious.......
>>>Geeez guys a heated steering wheel that is one of the last thing I would even think of considering to influence by choice of a car. 
02-19-2011, 11:32 PM
#69
Instructor
2 cans of Barg's root beer in the car. Anyway when I had got off work at midnight, the 2 cans were empty. I didn't pay it no mind until I returned to the car the next day. I found root beer everywhere. I was already ready to leave Texas. I could not put into words how hot it was.
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