Why Would Anyone Get The TL WIthout SH-AWD???
02-16-2009, 02:38 PM
#41
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02-16-2009, 02:50 PM
#42
Three Wheelin'
I didnot said people buy cars based on wheel design alone. But some one mentioned that TL 18inch is bargain. Which it is not. Undesirable stuff is not a bargain. Situation is so desperate in bayarea that some dealers are now willing to trade my TSX with deeply descounted TL. Atleast TSX they can sell as CPO with 18inch rims. TL inventory they will not even sell at all for ayear on lots by that time 2009 will be even more depreciated.
02-16-2009, 02:52 PM
#43
Instructor
Comments are so easily taken out of context I see here...
The point of me mentioning the 18" wheels was in response to someone questioning the value of the add'l $3K for the AWD... I was simply noting that in addition to engine, handling, interior, etc., you'd also "automatically" receive an upgrade from the 17" base wheels (which are way too small) to 18" wheels (minimum size that works with this car). I was not saying they are the best, just again tried to rationalize the relative worthiness of the $3K base-to-AWD increase, and noted if you DID upgrade the wheels at Acura when making your base TL buy, you'd get hit for almost $3K (realizing no one on this site would actually do that, but that's not the point).
The point of me mentioning the 18" wheels was in response to someone questioning the value of the add'l $3K for the AWD... I was simply noting that in addition to engine, handling, interior, etc., you'd also "automatically" receive an upgrade from the 17" base wheels (which are way too small) to 18" wheels (minimum size that works with this car). I was not saying they are the best, just again tried to rationalize the relative worthiness of the $3K base-to-AWD increase, and noted if you DID upgrade the wheels at Acura when making your base TL buy, you'd get hit for almost $3K (realizing no one on this site would actually do that, but that's not the point).
02-16-2009, 03:28 PM
#44
Also, I wrote earlier:
I still say there is no proof that the formula doesn't work for HMC. Who is to say that Honda is not perfectly happy with the formula of taking existing chassis and charging a premium for them. Who is to say that selling all those TLs over the years hasn't been more profitable than the A4 or S60 line in terms of what they add to VW or Fords (respectively) bottom line?
To me, the only think that has been 'proven' is that it's hard to crack 150,000 annual units with only three models pulling the weight.
To me, the only think that has been 'proven' is that it's hard to crack 150,000 annual units with only three models pulling the weight.
02-16-2009, 03:43 PM
#45
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It's kind of like ordering a pizza and saying "hold the cheese and sauce." I mean if you're already spending north of $35k, what's another $2-3k to get all that the SH-AWD gives you?
I'm sorry, but to me, it just doesn't make a lot of sense. The extra 1mpg? I hardly can imagine that that's a significant motivating factor.
I'm sorry, but to me, it just doesn't make a lot of sense. The extra 1mpg? I hardly can imagine that that's a significant motivating factor.
02-16-2009, 03:48 PM
#46
I still say there is no proof that the formula doesn't work for HMC. Who is to say that Honda is not perfectly happy with the formula of taking existing chassis and charging a premium for them. Who is to say that selling all those TLs over the years hasn't been more profitable than the A4 or S60 line in terms of what they add to VW or Fords (respectively) bottom line?
To me, the only think that has been 'proven' is that it's hard to crack 150,000 annual units with only three models pulling the weight.
To me, the only think that has been 'proven' is that it's hard to crack 150,000 annual units with only three models pulling the weight.
Acura is not independent. It is just rebadging work of Honda.
Making profits? i tend to think they made profits on 3G TL but on 4G TL. It is not going to happen. They car provides more value to consumers than 3G TL but volume is so low that fixed overhead costs will overhelm any notion of profits. The car is designed for US market not EU market where most of entry level luxury cars have half a million sales. TL will be lucky with 25K sales on deeply discounted prices. Add this to collapse of MDX sales. Acura is heading for disaster unless they put diesel or hybrid on MDX. As every German SUV is putting on it.
02-16-2009, 03:51 PM
#47
This is how rims should look like. It should shine at night without washing the car for a month and it should be proportionte to size of war. TL 18inch is worhtless addition.
02-16-2009, 03:53 PM
#48
Suzuka Master
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There is a lot of dancing around here on price whether its for a TL, Infinity, MB, BMW, Audi, Lexus, Chevy or whatever.
The bottom line at the end of the day a car is not worth the sum of its parts are but what people are willing to pay for it. Cars with $1,000,000+ price tags & waiting lists to get one clearly prove that point. "You to can get on the wait list with a $250,000 deposit - provided we approve that you are the type of person who should be allowed to buy one of our cars."
As for the OP is question on a 4X4 system in most cases they generally run about $2000 to $3000 over the 2X4 versions.
If I lived up North & only had 1 car it would be a no brainer to get the SH-AWD if I bought a TL. That being said I personally prefer my 4X4's to be trucks.
The bottom line at the end of the day a car is not worth the sum of its parts are but what people are willing to pay for it. Cars with $1,000,000+ price tags & waiting lists to get one clearly prove that point. "You to can get on the wait list with a $250,000 deposit - provided we approve that you are the type of person who should be allowed to buy one of our cars."
As for the OP is question on a 4X4 system in most cases they generally run about $2000 to $3000 over the 2X4 versions.
If I lived up North & only had 1 car it would be a no brainer to get the SH-AWD if I bought a TL. That being said I personally prefer my 4X4's to be trucks.
02-16-2009, 03:58 PM
#49
There is a lot of dancing around here on price whether its for a TL, Infinity, MB, BMW, Audi, Lexus, Chevy or whatever.
The bottom line at the end of the day a car is not worth the sum of its parts are but what people are willing to pay for it. Cars with $1,000,000+ price tags & waiting lists to get one clearly prove that point. "You to can get on the wait list with a $250,000 deposit - provided we approve that you are the type of person who should be allowed to buy one of our cars."
As for the OP is question on a 4X4 system in most cases they generally run about $2000 to $3000 over the 2X4 versions.
If I lived up North & only had 1 car it would be a no brainer to get the SH-AWD if I bought a TL. That being said I personally prefer my 4X4's to be trucks.
The bottom line at the end of the day a car is not worth the sum of its parts are but what people are willing to pay for it. Cars with $1,000,000+ price tags & waiting lists to get one clearly prove that point. "You to can get on the wait list with a $250,000 deposit - provided we approve that you are the type of person who should be allowed to buy one of our cars."
As for the OP is question on a 4X4 system in most cases they generally run about $2000 to $3000 over the 2X4 versions.
If I lived up North & only had 1 car it would be a no brainer to get the SH-AWD if I bought a TL. That being said I personally prefer my 4X4's to be trucks.
02-16-2009, 04:00 PM
#50
02-16-2009, 04:07 PM
#51
Three Wheelin'
you keep mentioning those rims. These are not the rims Most people will want it. They have to swapped with dealer for extra cost for performance tires and chrome.
This is how rims should look like. It should shine at night without washing the car for a month and it should be proportionte to size of war. TL 18inch is worhtless addition.
This is how rims should look like. It should shine at night without washing the car for a month and it should be proportionte to size of war. TL 18inch is worhtless addition.
02-16-2009, 04:08 PM
#52
Results will be pretty obvious in due course of time.
02-16-2009, 04:14 PM
#53
Three Wheelin'
[QUOTE=SSFTSX;10529818]Audi A6 allroad solve the problem It has height adjustable suspension. So you can lift it up for real 4x4 duties with steel plates to protect under carriage. I think philoshpy is for new A4 allroader. It is not half baked effort like TL-Sh-AWD. Rought weather is not exuse to buy TL-SH-AWD.
QUOTE]
SH-AWD improves handling in all weather situations, not just the bad ones. It's more sophisticated than Audi's Quattro which does nothing to improve the handling in any of its cars.
QUOTE]
SH-AWD improves handling in all weather situations, not just the bad ones. It's more sophisticated than Audi's Quattro which does nothing to improve the handling in any of its cars.
02-16-2009, 04:16 PM
#54
Because you keep saying the same thing over and over again like a broken record (large black discs made of vinyl that were easily scratched). I am quite sure that Acura is not doomed and that Honda is not going to abandon the brand. Yet you continue to say they are going to go out of business and this illogical argument is dumb.
Dumb: adjective, -er, -est, verb –adjective
1. lacking intelligence or good judgment; stupid; dull-witted.
Dumb: adjective, -er, -est, verb –adjective
1. lacking intelligence or good judgment; stupid; dull-witted.
02-16-2009, 04:18 PM
#55
Why do you keep posting worthless pics of your TSX in a 4G forum? (then again, you spend 2X more time here than in the TSX forum, so I'm not surprised). The 18" stock rims on the AWD TL is fine and most owners here would agree. The only reason they would want to change it is to get bigger rims. Once again, you keep believing most people choose cars based on what rims are on it.....and once again, how stupid is that.
02-16-2009, 04:25 PM
#57
AZ Community Team
Because you keep saying the same thing over and over again like a broken record (large black discs made of vinyl that were easily scratched). I am quite sure that Acura is not doomed and that Honda is not going to abandon the brand. Yet you continue to say they are going to go out of business and this illogical argument is dumb.
Dumb: adjective, -er, -est, verb –adjective
1. lacking intelligence or good judgment; stupid; dull-witted.
Dumb: adjective, -er, -est, verb –adjective
1. lacking intelligence or good judgment; stupid; dull-witted.
It never ceases to amaze me how SSFTSX and (CJ) hijack a thread and spread the Acura "sky is falling" and "doom and gloom" everytime.
02-16-2009, 04:25 PM
#58
Because you keep saying the same thing over and over again like a broken record (large black discs made of vinyl that were easily scratched). I am quite sure that Acura is not doomed and that Honda is not going to abandon the brand. Yet you continue to say they are going to go out of business and this illogical argument is dumb.
Dumb: adjective, -er, -est, verb –adjective
1. lacking intelligence or good judgment; stupid; dull-witted.
Dumb: adjective, -er, -est, verb –adjective
1. lacking intelligence or good judgment; stupid; dull-witted.
02-16-2009, 04:27 PM
#59
And that's not even the problem. It is his inability to acknowledge if someone else has a salient point. The inability to stay on topic without posting some meaningless "fluff' that changes the subject if he is found to be incorrect. As we speak, he is surely off scouring the internet for some unrelated piece to post up. wait.... wait.... BAM here it comes!
02-16-2009, 04:27 PM
#60
You dont need AWD system with all its performance/fuel efficiency for better handling in all weather. You introduce Drive select as separate package and charge more money for those who want superior handling which is not required for 99% of situations.
02-16-2009, 04:30 PM
#61
And that's not even the problem. It is his inability to acknowledge if someone else has a salient point. The inability to stay on topic without posting some meaningless "fluff' that changes the subject if he is found to be incorrect. As we speak, he is surely off scouring the internet for some unrelated piece to post up. wait.... wait.... BAM here it comes!
02-16-2009, 04:32 PM
#62
Not that it matters, but I think Acura could have done a little better with their selection of wheels myself; especially with the price increase they imposed on the 09's
I see lots of other mfgrs wheels that make me say wow...but not those offered on the new Tl's. First look says the TSX wheels shown here would be an upgrade
To get back on track to the OP's original question...some people myself included, don't need all the extras, and that includes AWD, bigger faster gas wasting engines, etc.
Me, I wish they made a lighter 200 hp version of the 3g with better/more gear ratios....but I guess thats going backward instead of forward...like I said not that it matters
I see lots of other mfgrs wheels that make me say wow...but not those offered on the new Tl's. First look says the TSX wheels shown here would be an upgrade
To get back on track to the OP's original question...some people myself included, don't need all the extras, and that includes AWD, bigger faster gas wasting engines, etc.
Me, I wish they made a lighter 200 hp version of the 3g with better/more gear ratios....but I guess thats going backward instead of forward...like I said not that it matters
02-16-2009, 04:37 PM
#63
My point is not based on what I see at our store. It is based on what I see from Acura corporate. Thinks like a dedicated design center, a domestic racing program ready to expand to Europe when they are ready, and a change in leadership at the top. These are not sign the moves of a brand ready to 'fold'
02-16-2009, 04:38 PM
#64
02-16-2009, 04:41 PM
#65
Suzuka Master
Oh I see, Tier 1 is about confusing the customer and making it impossible to find what they want. I briefly looked at BMW before my SH-AWD and I was baffeled by how hard it was to find a 3 Seriers equipped the way I wanted as PetesTL points out. They had plenty of cars most were barely equipeed and nothing had the set of options I wanted, down to IPOD adapter, Radio it was like needing a secret decoder ring to determin what optiosn came with what other options on any given car, making it virtually impossible to price shop unless you wanted the boner car they had tones of those.
02-16-2009, 04:41 PM
#66
Three Wheelin'
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Because you keep saying the same thing over and over again like a broken record (large black discs made of vinyl that were easily scratched). I am quite sure that Acura is not doomed and that Honda is not going to abandon the brand. Yet you continue to say they are going to go out of business and this illogical argument is dumb.
Dumb: adjective, -er, -est, verb –adjective
1. lacking intelligence or good judgment; stupid; dull-witted.
Dumb: adjective, -er, -est, verb –adjective
1. lacking intelligence or good judgment; stupid; dull-witted.
Actually no, you were right. You have the 19 inch and 17 inch pictured. I personally don't like the design on the 18 inch wheel.
).
02-16-2009, 04:51 PM
#68
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If you all permit me to get back to the ORIGINAL question/comment!!! It's simple, choices for the consumer. First of all I bought the normally aspirated version because... 1. I bought it as soon as it came out because I wasn't willing to wait on the SH-AWD and...2. I simply had no need or desire for the SH-AWD. I own an MDX with SH-AWD and rarely benefit from it. I don't want the rougher ride, if you do, more power to you. I like the ride quiet and smooth, for you who don't, thank Acura for giving us a choice. The pizza analogy should be more like...you ordered the pizza and told them you didn't want sodas with it.
02-16-2009, 04:53 PM
#69
02-16-2009, 05:01 PM
#70
After having owned two SH-AWD Acuras, I can answer the OP's question ... because it ain't worth the extra cost and complexity to me.
- I live in the Southwest and ice and snow are not a concern for more than 2 or 3 days a year.
- You guys say "enthusiasts" appreciate the SH-AWD. I would argue that only foolhardy drivers will appreciate it, since you have to be driving at 8/10 or more to feel - or see - any real effect from it.
If you're going to pulling a G on an onramp just because you can, I don't want to be anywhere near you. And you're not going to see any noticeable handling benefit on 95% of the roads you drive everyday. So, IMO, it's just a "feel-good" thing for most people.
Trouble is, that leaves you only with FWD ... and that's the thing Acura needs to fix on the TL. I guarantee you - a RWD TL would sell, and the SH-AWD version would sit on the lot.
.
.
- I live in the Southwest and ice and snow are not a concern for more than 2 or 3 days a year.
- You guys say "enthusiasts" appreciate the SH-AWD. I would argue that only foolhardy drivers will appreciate it, since you have to be driving at 8/10 or more to feel - or see - any real effect from it.
If you're going to pulling a G on an onramp just because you can, I don't want to be anywhere near you. And you're not going to see any noticeable handling benefit on 95% of the roads you drive everyday. So, IMO, it's just a "feel-good" thing for most people.
Trouble is, that leaves you only with FWD ... and that's the thing Acura needs to fix on the TL. I guarantee you - a RWD TL would sell, and the SH-AWD version would sit on the lot.
.
.
02-16-2009, 05:04 PM
#71
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02-16-2009, 05:08 PM
#72
02-16-2009, 05:42 PM
#73
Well another lengthy read of off topic and hijacks by individuals. C'mon mods?
Back to the OP, your question is idiotic and completely subjective. You seem to have missed the obvious, everyone's driving experience differs! I myself don't need AWD in So Cal. The AWD is a sportier harder ride, granted if it was available when I was shopping I'd probably be in it because of the rims and interior differences, but not because of the AWD itself.
You can just tell by the thread title which posts are going to be junk.
Back to the OP, your question is idiotic and completely subjective. You seem to have missed the obvious, everyone's driving experience differs! I myself don't need AWD in So Cal. The AWD is a sportier harder ride, granted if it was available when I was shopping I'd probably be in it because of the rims and interior differences, but not because of the AWD itself.
You can just tell by the thread title which posts are going to be junk.
02-16-2009, 06:08 PM
#74
Suzuka Master
After having owned two SH-AWD Acuras, I can answer the OP's question ... because it ain't worth the extra cost and complexity to me.
- I live in the Southwest and ice and snow are not a concern for more than 2 or 3 days a year.
- You guys say "enthusiasts" appreciate the SH-AWD. I would argue that only foolhardy drivers will appreciate it, since you have to be driving at 8/10 or more to feel - or see - any real effect from it.
If you're going to pulling a G on an onramp just because you can, I don't want to be anywhere near you. And you're not going to see any noticeable handling benefit on 95% of the roads you drive everyday. So, IMO, it's just a "feel-good" thing for most people.
Trouble is, that leaves you only with FWD ... and that's the thing Acura needs to fix on the TL. I guarantee you - a RWD TL would sell, and the SH-AWD version would sit on the lot.
.
.
- I live in the Southwest and ice and snow are not a concern for more than 2 or 3 days a year.
- You guys say "enthusiasts" appreciate the SH-AWD. I would argue that only foolhardy drivers will appreciate it, since you have to be driving at 8/10 or more to feel - or see - any real effect from it.
If you're going to pulling a G on an onramp just because you can, I don't want to be anywhere near you. And you're not going to see any noticeable handling benefit on 95% of the roads you drive everyday. So, IMO, it's just a "feel-good" thing for most people.
Trouble is, that leaves you only with FWD ... and that's the thing Acura needs to fix on the TL. I guarantee you - a RWD TL would sell, and the SH-AWD version would sit on the lot.
.
.
I partially agree with you, the problme is Acura decided to give the FWD a soft and numb ride/steering and gave the AWD version a sporty ride that surpases the 3G Type-S. AS I coudl not stand the 4G TL FWD ride, too soft my option was AWD that I really did not need, but the ride I wanted or look at something else. I struggled, but decied to deal with the AWD. The extra complexity does not bother me as I am leasing it and it will be under warranty for the lease then back to Acura.
02-16-2009, 06:55 PM
#75
Senior Moderator
This is the last straw guys, the 4G team has been nice to you guys, now the bans are being handed out. 
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