billpan

I don't have run flats. Regarding the rattles, the right A pillar area had a loud rattle which I could never track down and my front passenger seat rattled in addition to the plastic interior creaking due to a firm ride. I'm not knocking the TL, just sharing my observations which might not bother the majority of TL owners.

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

This quote from the BMW forum sums it up best:

acura_TL2010

There is a guy by name "Autouinon" on bimmerfest forum, if you guys have some time read his posts. This guy is insane he is comparing Acura to KIA and Hyundai. I wrote to him saying that probably he is fired from Acura dealership and now works for KIA or Hyundai

ib_jimmy

Before I got my 2012 TL, I was fixed on getting a '07 750Li. A patient of my is the service manager at a BMW dealership, so she told him how we are looking for a 750Li and his replay is "don't get it unless because the those cars were built to break down at certain point just so you come back for service."

Litt

Who cares what they think? When I see bmw drivers I think the 3 series is too small and the 5 series is way to expensive. RWD sucks in the snow and Xdrive is nothing special. I've seen Chevy Cavaleers happily drive past BMWs that are stuck and can't move.

Stew4HD

It's silly even wonder what they think. I doubt those over in LemmingVille care what we think either.

Glashub

Well, don't be cavalier about the Cavalier. Don't forget the Cimmaron was based on the Cavalier. It really was truth in branding and marketing. And there was a large degree of cavalier chance as to whether it would start and run.

winstrolvtec

I have to agree. You really need to marvel in the badge appeal and the particular driving experience to really appreciate one, but short of that, they just don't do the most basic enough of things that well.

I also happen to think they do luxury crafting well but that's not necessarily exclusive to BMW and as you said, the 3 series (in particular) is a tiny car for what it can option it out to. It's funny watching people uncomfortably squish themselves and their family in these cars just because it's a BMW and the only one they can afford, or barely.

I know it's a nice car and is well suited for some over others, so I am not knocking that, but I can't help but say to myself "what are you thinking?" when a disproportionately large person gets in or out of one of these tiny 3's or luxury compacts. I know some might say that about the TL's styling but it's subjective, that other point is not. Plus, BMW's as a whole are statictically less reliable, depreciate for two cars and really are IMO unnecessarily overpriced, in most cases.

I also don't understand the lack of LSD's, and the use of single piston brakes, as well as struts (3 series). I know it's virtually a non-issue as far as how well the cars are engineered and perform despite these points, and by themselves wouldn't bother me, but for that kind of money, it's painful. I know Acura models have gone away from LSD's as well but how many 300+ HP/TQ, RWD, available 6MT's do they make?

I am not against this engineering "more-with-less" concpet, as I think that's where the best auto engineering comes from and it's also a very familiar one even with Acura, who does it with stuff like FWD platform use and sharing, NA engines, lack of DI, SOHC, etc, etc, but it's done to deliver more with less but also for less. BMW still usually charges more than most competitors despite some of the same types of practices. Acura is far from being without fault either but in the context of their general value proposition, it doesn't seem nearly as bad to me.

hatepotholez

Only Beemer i'll take is an M(for motosport activities), anything else is not worth it.

Love my TL with REAL leather!

dominik331

I read through most of that thread and while I believe it is natural for other brands/forums to talk trash about the competition (Honda fans do the same with Hyundai) there are some good points there and lots of obnoxious BS.

Still, I love my nice, upscale and upgraded Hondas or whatever they want to call it.

Would I buy a BMW product? Sure. Do I think sometimes they are overrated and over priced? Maybe. To each its own.

daikeler

BMW lover here, BUT new 2012 Acura TL owner. I previously owned a 335i and 535i. LOVED my BMWs You cannot beat the handling, smooth acceleration and sporty feel (with sports package). I sold my 535i last year and ended up with a vw jetta tdi sportwagen. Loved the vw as well, but needed to save some money. BMWs are not cheap at all and with kids, no longer on my radar.

For the past 13 months I have been paying on my vw jetta with the plan to buy a new 3 or 5 series in 2012. I make a pretty good income, but my wife is not working and we have bills like everyone else so after careful consideration, I decided that it just wasn't worth it to me to put tons of money into a car payment (BMW) while sacrificing things around the house, etc. I also drive a 60 mile work commute each day, which really racks up the miles.

My wife has a 2004 MDX with 115,000 miles and will not part with it. It has been very reliable, which really swayed my opinion in favor of the TL.

Soooooo....I was looking at the Acura site on the 4th of July, saw the .9% APR and decided to test drive. I was impressed with everything the TL contained in the advance package. The acceleration was plenty also. The handling however is not the best, and the car feels big (I know, it is big).

I ended up trading the jetta for the Graphite TL with the advance package and totally love it. I am willing to have slightly less in the handling and smooth motor than a BMW, but I am spending 20,000 less than a 5 series!!! Happy I made the move and bought this instead of another BMW

daikeler

In the beginning I meant that I needed more comfort for my commute, but wanted to save money, which I would not be doing if I had purchased a BMW.

tmnhs81

^ Congrats and welcome to the forum.

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

This is my biggest issue with the 4G TL. I have a 3G TL and the 4G feels MUCH bigger. Congrats on the car. It is certainly a very well-built machine and a great value. I wish I could get over the big car feel (and the looks ).

jspagna1

Ya my wife thinks the 4G is too big. And I think that makes it more comfortable to drive and not cramped like the 3 Series of the G37.

saturno_v

The handling is not the best?? Are we talking about the same TL?? Do you own the AWD or the FWD?? The SH-AWD was able on a test track to leave behind the lighter 335i (both RWD and xDrive) and the S4.....what do you want more?? Sprouting wings and fly??

riceballtrp

Funny, I'm one of the old farts and I for one like the looks of my '09 TL both inside and out. I feel my money was better spent on the Acura and not a Beemer, but like they say: opinions are like (Donkey)holes - everyone has one and it usually stinks!

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

I had a 5 Series that was always in the shop too-it nickeled and dimed me to death...

Stew4HD

I feel the same about my '12 and Acura in general

winstrolvtec

I come across this a lot. I suppose it's the FWD version but even if it's the SH, it's hard to get a track-like determination of how the car handles without driving it as so. Most don't do that too often or at all so it's usually just the steering feel and weight balance that determines what is perceived as better or worse to them and the majority, ironically that is also BMW's claim to faim. While those aspects are a big part of it, they don't tell the whole story.

Then there are many who are unaware of how to operate the SH system for spirited handling. I have a few BMW buddies who weren't aware of the concept and have driven it like they would a RWD or rear based AWD BMW, only to find it felt heavy, particularly in the front, had a lot of body roll, and came away with the conclusion that it is a glorified FWD system and handling vehicle in general.

That is until I explained that you can't come into the turn as hot but can get out a lot faster and also not to get off the gas mid turn. Needless to say the reactions were night and day. Then there are those who do the comparison of the commonly used (decent quality) summer tire, which is mostly standard on RWD vehicles while the SH, for the most part, is found on basic all seasons.

It's unfortunate that the 2012 is no longer avialable with summer tires from the factory but even so, with comparable tires and driven accordingly, it's one of the best handling cars, period (and proven). Where it is average and a comparable BMW excels, is in confidence inspiration. The TL doesn't "feel" like it's able to handle most of what you can throw at it but still does, while most BMW's gave me the impression that it could handle much more even when it couldn't.

PsychDoc

As a soon-to-be "official BMW guy" at this point let me just state that I don't hate or in any other way 'look down' on the tL. It's an amazing car with a very nice balance of pros and cons. As a value proposition it simply has no peer (IMO). It does give up a little in some areas to it's BMW competition, but for almost $20k more, that's to be expected. And the BMW counterpart to the TL is the 5er, most certainly NOT the 3 series. Areas in which the TL could improve are primarily in ride sophistication and road noise, both of which are not great. I also came to find that I missed a little wamth in the cabin. That's to say that the aluminum/black eventually got to be a bit cold and uninviting. A bit of (real) wood would have been a welcome addition. But it has to be implemented with class (read: not like a Ford or Lincoln) to avoid looking cheap. The TL will never be a 5er, nor is it intended to be. In a similar sense, the 5er will never be a Quatroporte, but again, it's not supposed to compete in that segment. Anyway, al in all, the TL is an incredible vehicle that has served me very well over 2 1/2 years. If I am able to say the same about my 535xi in 2 1/2 years I'll consider myself very fortunate.

krusir

I just return 2009 535xi. It been judged lemon car and BMW NA buy it back with full price. The turbo engine gave me numbers problem, google will tell you all usual problem. I've encounter most of them. Good side is BMW NA stand behind of their problem, even agree to buy back right before 48500 miles. Yes, just about 1500 miles, I will be out of warranty.

I got the $$ from BMW NA and now drive 2012 TL SH-AWD 6MT. Could not be happier.

PsychDoc

I hear you but just for the sake of complete discosure the HPFP issue that was at the root of so many of the reliability problems in the N54 engines has now been completely rectified in the N55 engines now beings used in the 5 series. But is the 535 ever likely to be anywhere near as bulletproof as the TL? Now way.

saturno_v

That is a statement that I will never understand maybe because, unfortunately, I'm not capable to let marketing pull wool in front of my eyes...and I do not take C&D too seriously...

Acura has officially declared that the TL competes both with the upper range of the 3er offering and the entry-mid level of the 5er range...they clearly mention in their document the 528i and 535i....the two cars are identical in size...so the TL is a 5er competitor, period.

There is nothing inherently superior in a base 528i compared to a TL SH-AWD which still cost about a grand less...

It is gutless, it handles worse (ever tried a 5 series without sport package??), it has fake leather and never mind the fact that it is stripped to the metal when it comes to accessories...

I find the cabin design worse too but that is subjective....it has a very slight advantage in the level of finishing.

The only aspects where the 5er may be considered more sophisticated are

1) The longitudinal engine layout and RWD architecture...ok I concede this point but to me is very subjective...I see nothing wrong with a traverse mounted engine on a sedan, you gain interior room so it has is advantages.

2) DI engine......even if this does not translate in actual less fuel consumption on a 5er compared to a TL....ok nice to brag about.....however even the Ford Taurus has DI engines..I would hardly say that car is superior to the TL

Eventually to smoke a TL with a 5er you need to lean hard on the option list and your purchasing price goes to the moon....so as much as the Germanmobile fans hate to admit it's all matter of hitting a checklist....several options for your seats leather alone where with the TL you have none....nice Milano leather seats comes standar..that's it...the enormous level of customization is what, on average, really makes the price of Teutoncars levitate not some technical superiority concocted out of thin air...

On road noise...is incredible how perception sometimes is different from reality....the lowly Mazda 6 has less road noise (tested) than a Maserati Quattroporte...that's right...yes listening a 4 cylinder blender is less gratifying than a V8 powerhouse....but that's a different story...

TechnoCat

Having owned both the 2010 TL SH-AWD 6MT and 2011 S4 Prestige 6MT, I'm pretty sure that the Audi, as least with the torque-vectoring mine has, would handle pretty much any track faster when both cars are driven by the same top-notch driver. The TL certainly would whomp on my first (2000) S4 around the corners though, and possibly (I don't have any experience) on any S4 foolish enough to not have equipped the vectoring.

But... the TL feels and sounds faster. It doesn't have the low-end torque of the S4 or the same acceleration, but the way it comes on high in the range and the sound that accompanies it, along with the go-kart suspension, makes the TL the best four-door sports car I've ever been in. By far. It drives like a smaller car.

JM2010 SH-AWD

^^ TC - you're right - but only by about .4 per lap on a track with long straights. On a shorter track, I think it might go the other way.

See Automobile mag comparo - S4 vs. SH-AWD 6MT (7/16/10):

"The Audi's extra thrust should have been a huge advantage at Pittsburgh's BeaveRun racetrack, which rewards straight-line speed with two long straightaways -- especially since, on paper, the Acura carries no advantage in cornering or braking: the two cars have similar weight, tire section width, and suspension designs. The Audi's slightly better weight distribution would, we thought, be nixed by the Acura's wider track. And we were right -- as expected, the cars posted similar braking and cornering numbers in standardized testing.

But on a racetrack, the TL showed us exactly why Acura used the word "super" to describe its Super-Handling All-Wheel-Drive system. Despite its significant power advantage, the Audi S4's fastest lap beat the TL's by only 0.4 second."

Stew4HD

Hmm.. 0.4 seconds is all that the extra approx. $20K gets you with the S4? What a deal!

saturno_v

I would not call 250 pounds of stated weight difference (in favor of the S4) "similar weight"

The results of that test where the TL has less power, more weight, bigger size and lack of a supercharger for low end torque really gives you an idea of how amazing the TL SH-AWD handling really is...

winstrolvtec

Good points all but I will add that the TL SH (mainly 6MT with comparable tires) and the current S4 with the torque vectoring differential equipped are very much in line with each other in terms of handling. I agree that it's like splitting hairs and the S4 has outlapped the TL in some head to head comparos but the S4 is (significantly) faster and that is where most of the lap time advantage comes from.

In a sense of pure handling comparisons, the TL has shown to be a slightly better "handler", meaning just handling in the strict sense of the word. Naturally the S4 is very close, basically the same and with all that extra power, low end torque, acceleration, and lighter weight in base form (according to several sources), it's therefore able to outlap the TL in most cases, but much like what has been stated above, the TL handles a measurable margin better in order to achieve the results it does while being at a disadvantage in most performance aspects on paper.

In the Automobile comparison the TL was faster through most of the tuns and was also measured as generating more grip through the majority of them as well. Granted, driver plays a big role, as do tires, and the track itself. There is a small gap here that probably can't be determined as definite, so IMO these two cars basically offer the same type of handling capabilities.

I don't know how much there really is to serve as a basis for what is truly a better handling vehicle but the thing is, we know the S4 is tops in overall performance for the entry compact, short of cars like the RS4 (if it becomes available), M3, and C AMG, it's also better balanced, is in many cases lighter, where the TL instead is a size up and is also loaded where the S4's base price begins.

I know many have issues with the TL road noise and ride but credit is due where it is due and Acura engineers the ride to keep the handling (and therefore steering) consistent even over bumps and rough surfaces. Audi and other German engineered vehicles, tend to get woobly or springy over some bumps and although it makes the road irregularities a bit less intrusive, it does impact the handling and the steering while driving over them. That is in large why even folks who have owned or experienced both cars do consider the TL to have the more pure sports car like suspension.

saturno_v

I wish Honda had the guts to slap a couple of turbos on the TL SH-AWD...call it Type R....that would be pure orgasm....

PsychDoc

In addition to needing an up-to-date modern engine with DI adn at least a 7-speed tranny, Acura could use an aftermarket (but associated with corporate Acura) tuner division like AMG or M-sport. Add some much needed sex appeal and enthusiast interest.

BEAR-AvHistory

I have to wonder why any thread about "BMW" very quickly becomes the dominate thread in both posts & hits? Is it kind of a TL group hug thing?

Stew4HD

^ Good question.. this thread just won't die... I don't know why any TL owner cares what BMW owners think. I sure don't but obviously some do.

If I had wanted a BMW, I'd have bought one but I was not impressed in the bang for buck value nor do I care to impress anyone by having one in my garage. I came closer to getting an Infiniti than a BMW... but that is just me.

saturno_v

Same here..I cross shopped BMW (335 and 535) recently for my TL and for my previous car as well, I just cannot convince myself to pay the extra bucks...it is not worth it in my opinion....maybe it's just me

JM2010 SH-AWD

Same here. At the end of the day, it came down to the G37 and TL for me. The German cars, while nice, were just not worth the price premium, and the reliability factor cemented my choice.

daikeler

Let me clarify. I have a FWD advance. I have never driven an SH-AWD TL, so I cannot compare it to that, only to the one that I am driving. I sooooo wanted an SH-AWD or to at least test drive, but there were none on the lot at the time and the financing special was expiring the next day. This added to the fact that the SH-AWD gets worse gas mileage and I commute 60 miles each day to work.

Update:
After almost a week of owning the TL, I cannot express my satisfaction in this vehicle enough. There are a couple of minor nuances such as the lower body molding seems "loose" on each side under the door, like it was an after thought, but there has to be a reason that these pieces "give" a little. I don't think it is a flaw in manufacturing. The other nuance is that I cannot see my fuel gauge over the steering wheel to see if it is close to empty (I know, there is a function for that on the display).

The bottom line is that I feel like I got TONS of vehicle for the price and I can feel very safe that I will not have any major problems for 100,000 miles and more. This holds a lot of weight. I never felt like that with my BMWs. It feels better to pay my bank account than to throw money into a quickly depreciating "asset", especially with the miles that I drive.

winstrolvtec

Not sure what you are getting at but there does seem to be many who cross shop the two and then a decent number of members here who have come from a BMW and then those who have gone to a BMW as well.

People are intersted in reading different perspectives of how the two brands and cars relate. It's a testament to Acura and also BMW, who makes really fine luxury cars and offers a unique driver enthusiast experience but where they fall short Acura's tend to excel and vice versa. If I could blend some of the qualities from both, that would be my ideal car.

Don't you own a BMW? Any luck selling your 3G? Wasn't it you had said you were ordering a new car and since having done so decided to start frequenting the 4G section again? I take it you are not getting another Acura as that would explain a lot of the comments. Care to share?

ressling

OP, we traded in out '08 535i fully loaded for a Camry Hybrid. The depreciation was over 55% and the car was always in the shop. To each their own, but a TL > 5 series any day in my book.

Wish my lady would've gotten into something different, but she was all about going green lol...

BEAR-AvHistory

Yes I have turned to the dark side & own a BMW, a few in fact along with a pair of Fords. Initially I was posting on the 3G forum that my TL 6MT, which IMHO is a very nice car, was for sale because I bought another BMW to be delivered in August.

One car had to go so I decided to keep the 330ci instead of the Acura because its a convertible. Additionally, I did not need to keep a second 4 door car & my other 4 door is a few years newer, still under warranty with about half the miles on it.

Since I was on the AcuraZine site to place the ad I decided to take a look over in the 4G forum to see how the 2012 nose fix was doing with the fans & was surprised at the high post/view level in this BMW based thread. It seemed not much has changed since I was last here in the dim dark past, a BMW thread equals a high post/view count start.

I am surprised that my post created any special interest since it just states an obvious fact. I visit a number of different car sites & IIRC I don't tend to notice this level of interest in brands outside the scope of the site. In fact it would seem there is a higher level of BMW interest in the 4G forum than over in the 3G forum even though there are significantly more members & posts on the 3G side of the house. Just my thoughts, no specific research on the subject, your mileage may vary.

markcincinnati

. . .I have decided, despite the fact that by my participation in this thread, I am giving it at least some "legitimacy," that I really don't care what another brand's owners think of my selection for a car.

In fact, I am concerned that even the raising this topic suggests that Acura and Acura owners may be relegating themselves to "first runner-up" status. By that I mean, "well, Acura was my second choice. . ." behind BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Volvo or Yugo or WHATEVER.

If you can make the lease payments on an Acura TL, there is no doubt you CAN elect to lease either a Bimmer 3 or 5 series of some configuration. The Acura owner who actually cares what a BMW owner thinks of his/her Acura is -- I think -- attempting to rationalize why they didn't go for the BMW (or other brand). Perhaps the fact that a TL Advance when compared with either a comparably equipped 3 or 5 series will find the Acura somewhere more than $5,000 less (at MSRP) needs -- in someone's mind -- to be "justified."

Again, this seems, to me, to be a "well, I COULD HAVE had a BMW, but they aren't worth what they charge for them" kind of rationalization.

Who cares?

If you care so much what a BMW owner thinks (and you're trying to convince them that you made the "better or smarter" choice in the Acura) just go ahead a get the damn Bimmer -- if you can pass the credit check for the Acura you can pass the credit check for the BMW; and the way BMW sub-vents its leases, there's a least some chance that the BMW will be less money (per month) than the Acura anyway.

My current dilemma, speaking of monthly payment, is that both an Infiniti M37X and an all optioned Audi A4 Prestige cost less per month than the Acura TL despite the fact that it has the lowest MSRP.

Whatever I end up with, I promise I won't be wondering what my BMW driving neighbor thinks of my new Acura, Audi or Infiniti. The moment I care about that (the BMW owner's thoughts on my choice), is the moment I will be regretting each and every monthly check I write to fill-in-the-blank Financial Services.

Currently, I am trying to determine why the Acura's cost more per month than their pricier rivals.