"But my standards are higher than yours." That statement there sums you up completely. How can you make a statement like that to someone you personally don't know, that was totally uncalled for.

I'm done with this issue and hopefully you never remark, reply, or address anything I post on here in the future. Hopefully the moderators take firm action when dealing with this issue.

 

Hell Kia advertises that they are the best car and I'm sure if you go to the Kia boards, they'll say the same thing. One of my employees constantly tells me how "awesome" and great his Chevy Cobalt is...I'm still never going to buy one from the hype of marketing. I guess I can say my standards are higher than my employee's...wait, no I can't because I'm not that smug.

Pretty sure your list of 25 could've easily been researched and seen that it was lacking 18 items before the purchase. Unless the list of 25 came after you bought the car...then you're just trying to find every negative thing the car lacks and looking at it in a bias viewpoint. I agree with a few of your points though Techno. The TL does lack a few things, like every car that doesn't have every option like massaging chairs, 360 degree camera, steer & brake assistance (yuck), etc. I can take Audi and pit it against other manufacturers options and point out 25 items that they lack and then call it "semi-full luxury" if I really wanted to waste the rest of my lunch hour. My friend that ordered the M3 added $20k worth of options to the car...that car will be full luxury.

S4 is a great car (buddy has a yellow 2006 S4)...I would take it over my TL if I wasn't starting a family and still into the racing/touring scene...I still have my 95 MR2 for that (which I only get to play with about once every other month ).

Techno, I'm assuming you're from Seattle area...went to UW and loved the area. Definitely somewhere that you'll get full use of the S4 technology. I guess I can be considered "smart luxury" because I took my position and salary and moved back to Dallas (born and raised) and paying less than half in living expenses. I'm just trying to grasp the notion that you are the only one who can define "luxury" for what it is.

 

I think a number of us have nearly the same amount of "luxury" standards unfortunately we all have different citeria and priorities for our daily drivers. Some of us have a budget, others who don't, feel the premium price tag attached to other brands might not be worth it. Some don't want to sacrifice Honda reliability and Acura safety and resale.

Those Acura highlights sell cars all by themselves and they are another type of "standard". I know I am not willing to scarifice those standards for the sake of a little more luxury and much higher price tag to go with it. Most of us are ok with a cheaper luxury alternative, it is still good enough to be considered luxury in the first place. It comes down to what type of standard you are mostly looking for.

I would have liked a slightly more refined TL or car in general as much the next guy with a few more little features that others offer. I would have gladly paid a few grand more to get that too but the problem is (besides them not yet making that available on the TL) I am not willing to go the alternative route.

Forgoing the power and performance, as well as the other things mentioned above, and getting a similarly priced base mid level or a well equipped base entry instead was not an option. I can't have a car less then moderately loaded with all of today's electronics and technologies either and I prefer the larger mid sized vehicle. I also want AWD and a 6MT combo. I don't think $15-$20k more for the same type of capacity in another luxury sedan, with same level of performance with just a few more features and few added touches is worth it. For me it was never all about the money, my monthly payment is adequate to cover a well equipped mid level lease but I think financing the TL is a much smarter investment. Smart luxury and better value.

I am not losing out on much. The power and performance is there, as is the capacity, I am potentially gaining in the areas of resale and reliability, in most cases an added level of safety and low cost maintenance. So I have to rough it with only an average amount of luxury, big deal. The TL is great on all the other levels as explained and for the price it's no wonder most of us consider the best value for our criteria and is why we are here and are able to overlook so much controversy that surrounds the styling.

We have had this discussion before but it's about what your priorities are and what you are willing to sacrifice to get that. With the TL you sacrifice luxury or refinement and a few features. For me, unless it's a G sedan, you sacrifice so much more only to gain a marginal level of additional luxury, going with any other competitive luxury sedan but I think it is very important to get what makes you happy no matter the citeria.

 

Well said! It all comes down to personal preference and what you are looking for in a luxury vehicle. Each of the big 7 (in regards to luxury sales) BMW, MB, Lexus, Caddy, Acura, Infiniti, and Audi all have pros and cons compared to their competition. It all depends on what your looking for in regards to so many different factors, capacity, performance, handling, comfort, etc and the list could go on. For techno, the S4 met his needs and desires better than the TL did. For others on here, the TL was better for their needs and desires. It all comes down to choice and what things each respective vehicle does better over the other and if that matches your own personal criteria better or not. Be thankful we all have different options to choose from out there. Its nice to have choices.

Everyone enjoy their rides!

 

^ - Wow, thoughtful, respectful posts without bashing others' choices or rides! Imagine that. Aren't we about due for a grill bash or "fugly" comment?

Both views above are well stated. There is no right or wrong here - just a lot of options (we should be happy for that) and a lot of owners' opinions/priorities that we all try to match up best with what's out there.

 

I've owned BMWs and Audis. The BMW 3 series is too small for my current needs and tastes. The Audi 4 series was too little car for the money when I compared it against the 2010 TL, SH-AWD, Tech, 6 MT.

I'm not saying any of these cars are bad. My modest point is that the 2010 TL was the best sports sedan for my money at the time. Your mileage may vary.

We call the TL "Ugly Betty." She's my wife's car but I enjoy driving and maintaining her. The manual transmission, coupled with the AWD system, is a potent combo. I would have to spend considerably more money for a comparable experience in a BMW 5 series or larger Audi. I'm comfortable with our decision.

I don't buy into the Lincoln/Dodge comparison. Neither have historically competed against Acura. Cadillac's CTS, on the other hand, may prove to be an up-and-comer. We'll see.

Having said all that, I'll probably leave the Acura fold (just as I did with Audi, BMW, etc.) and explore other manufacturers in three-four years. Maybe something Italian...

 

Thanks for posting pics! Really sharp car. I freakin love AUDIs!

I sat in an S4 recently, and was taken aback a bit by the cramped cabin. I have many gripes about my TL, but space and interior ergonomics aren't on that list.

I think I'd have to go with the S5 based on its panther-like appearance, 2 doors (don't like kids, don't want 'em), and more spacious interior. I drive 60 miles round trip every day to work, and I like to spread out a bit.

I just think the S4 is a much better value in terms of what you get for the money.

 

If you always live by the "best bang for your buck" rule, you'll never get anything other than acuras.

 

Yes, those 25 could have been researched by me easily, but, and this is the important part that about four of you just don't seem to get...

I drove nothing but Audis for 14 years. Acura was advertised as equivalent. Some partisans in this forum consider the TL to be S4 or even 535-equivalent; it isn't. I foolishly believed that Acura was up to Audi standards, or had caught up, or however you want to phrase it.

Put another way, it didn't occur to me that I had to research it. The cars I'd driven recently (including Audi, Lincoln, BMW, Mercedes) all had so many things in-common that the Acura TL lacked that it simply didn't occur to me the turkeys would leave out.

In several ways, Acura beats Audi; you get a faster car-for-the-dollar and a larger car-for-the-dollar. But both are true with certain Mustang and Camaro models too. And Kia, because the dollars are less. But the ways it fails, I didn't think to check.

Now, of course, I know better. You, having lived with Acuras for longer and not necessarily being used to Audis, have different baseline expectations.

 

We're just a bunch of low-lifes who know no better than to be satisfied with our meager TLs. Someday we can aspire to aim higher.

 

Very true. The comments against Techno's wife, choice of car, "story", etc., were amusing. He was a "troll" first, and someone is able to say "lots" of things don't add up in the story (even though you don't know them), yet if someone else is to say you have higher standards is "uncalled for" because you don't know the person. If you deviate from the "norm" that these few select you are a troll or something.

Thankfully those posters don't make up the bulk of Acurazine and we have insightful posters such as you and Smarty, and I give Techno kudos for not allowing his beliefs to get shouted down by some of these select few.

I'm satisfied other than a few quality niggles.

 

I am not critisizing you but Acura, although technically a luxury division with luxury cars, have never really been known for their luxury, does that make sense?

Historically it has always been more of a performance, effeciency, value, reliability approach to luxury never about ultimate refinement, ever. The ads don't really stress anything more than resale, value, and safety, today. In the past their marketing seemed to focus on performance and in general there is a distinction between German and Japanese luxury tendencies, maybe this part you were not overly aware of.

As far as the members here comparing it to more expensive vehicles (including myself), I don't think anyone has ever declared it a luxury equivalent to anything costing $10k-$20k more. That doesn't make sense. Only with that of cars in price range and mostly within the entry level. Perhaps a sports and performance and size equivalent, with other areas that are or might be superior for far less money but never anything to do with your interpretation of ultimate luxury.

To be fair you had one brand for many years, a lot (not all) of what you see missing or as failing in the TL, most members here (even those who have also owned Audi's and many other brands) don't consider to be related to luxury and have made that well known to you, like the whole Celsius thing. Some of your complaints just had to do with Audi or past vehicle tendencies alone and naturally after 15 years I would kind of feel like something was missing in a different brand of car too but that shouldn't necessarily be all on Acura or the TL. They do what they do well as do all brands but if that is not align with one's preferences and priorities then they are not looking that good.

You wanted to try something else, it was cheaper and a relatively good deal. They have a good reputation, the car is powerful and fast and large, so you said why not? How much can I miss the brand I have been happy with for a while now and how much could it hurt? It's only a car, plus I'll be saving a decent amount of money.

That seed continued to grow in your head combined with a few more annoyances in the TL than expected and before you knew it you were back to the car and brand you actually wanted in the first place. I am glad you made the decision, everything else is water under the bridge. Now update your sig and enjoy your new ride.

 

Well said.

 

That was well-written, and I agree with most of it, but that's not how Acura is positioning themselves... and it wasn't really cheaper. The TL I bought costs more than a reasonably-loaded A4Q... faster, but more expensive.

My rant was due to the regular posts here saying, "You should have figured out out in a quick test ride" or "Oh, now you do your research." Those are moronic statements; given the positioning and advertising, and my experience with other (admittedly first-tier luxury, but in theory so's Acura) brands, it simply didn't occur to me that I had to check for those features I considered standard. To me, it'd be like buying a car and finding no 12V power outlets. Some posters here would say, "You should have caught that in the test drive!", but of course it's a standard thing so you don't think to.

 

Sounds like a classic case of not accepting fault. You are finding every excuse for a bad choice in your eyesight. Most here are not concerned with what you view as your higher elevated standards that seem to always exceed others. Get over yourself. Your decision required more research which you didn't do. Man up accept it, redo your signature and move on.

 

No...moronic would be not noticing simple things like when the car was off the side mirrors weren't folded in, the car didn't have wipers on the headlights, the angle of the headrests, the size of the car. I'll give you the "no folding back seats" because some don't think to look for that.

There's a reason some seem to despise you. It's not all just about how much you constantly rant over the same points that Acura seems to lack in your eyes. It's that you try to talk down to people and call people morons and whatnot.

I'm not a moron...I am well-educated and a very logical thinker. You have to be in my line of work or you go busto. I try to be civil to everyone I encounter in reality and in forums. You seem to think you are above this civil line for some reason. I've just asked very warranted questions that was unclear on behavioral changes in decently big decisions. A car is the 2nd most expensive purchase a person makes. You would think they do some research on it. You must be one of those that goes and buys a house in a new property zone because it was advertised as the new and upcoming community and after you moved in, you found out it was downwind from a sewage plant. Now that's moronic!

It's true we have totally different positions on what we want out of our daily drivers. I get it & hope you do too. Now go enjoy your S4 and stop bugging us 2nd-3rd tier guys. Hell, go have more fun and try a BMW forum and rant in there how the M3 lacks what the S4 excels in. Good luck in life Techno and may you find your happy place

 

I disagree with your disagreement, respectively of course. You know about the smart luxury theme in which Acura currently positions themselves and even before that I am curious as to what kind of ads or marketing that made you think otherwise. Even years back Acura has always had a slightly different approach to the whole traditional luxury theme.

As for cost, the TL is less when compared to the S4 and is a relatively good deal in many opinions just in general, plus an A4 is not really any cheaper. It can be, but it is really in the same $40k+ range as is the TL SH when you well equip it with either the premium plus or prestige and any similar amount of features that are standard in the TL price. It's actually the same, around $43k-$44k for how you or I would equip it especially coming from the TL. It has a few more features and luxury touches but is smaller and slower and less performance oriented. Two very good cars and although both luxury they still have different approaches for different types of luxury consumers.

I think the time restraint in your initial buying situation was a big problem also and in your defense some issues that you had that arose are not necessarily things that can be researched or found in test drives but I still think the majority of the blame falls on yourself as there are plenty of Acura owners here and none seem to be complaining about what is missing or have come to expect anything more from the product they chose purchased, and for the price they paid.

At this point though it doesn't matter, if anything else it was a learning experience and it made you better value your loyalty to Audi and their product in general.

 

Well stated.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVPPT...eature=related

 

Did he say 5-speed manual? Pretty funny stuff.

 

LOL,yes he did.