compewterbleu

btw wasn't meant to be correct...kind of like I didn't really care so why proof read it, ya know!

compewterbleu

...a 3G'er, what more can one expect.

winstrolvtec

Not to be an ass but I am genuinely curious how you managed to get an S4 prestige with the drive select option for only $10k more than the TL SH?

Even without the sports package, only flat paint choice, and alacantra insert seats, with no other additions there is still a $14,500 difference in MSRP alone. Say you got your TL for $40k which is about invoice and somehow managed invoice on the prestige with only the drive select added to the price, the cost is $53,745 and still leaves nearly a $14k cost difference.

TechnoCat

I like the thread title update. Who did that? That's cool!

TechnoCat

I got the TL SH-AWD 6MT right as it came out; got it below sticker but never saw the invoice. And I wasn't really in an invoice-battling position on the S4 either, but I did get a pretty big discount on it; an employee hinted that the GM got me into a loyalty-retention program, though I didn't see anything about it.

But the stickers are only about $10K apart. Maybe $12K. And yes, we wanted the metallic ("Phantom") black, but the only available car with a 6MT was flat ("Brilliant") black. At least it's black!

jangkai

Good read. Thanks for the comparison.

I was parked behind a white S4 few days back, and the S4 definitely 'looked' more sporty due to its aggressive stance. (less fender gap and wheels that stuck out more) My crappy looking calipers didn't help either..
This is where the Germans are clearly ahead. I have yet to experience a Japanese car with doors that close with authority. LS, RL, MDX all close with a clink unlike the thud of a Merc/Bimmer/Audi.

winstrolvtec

Cool thanks but I think the sales price difference might possibly be the $12k that you speak of but the stickers for that particular model as equipped (prestige with drive select) is $57,725. The TL is $43,245. Sounds like you may have got a $7,725 discount which is $3k below invoice. I don't know who you know but that sounds good.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Congratulations, Techno. Acura doesn't yet build cars on this level!

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Such a 4G owner-typic comment.

Some of you can be quite hilarious. And your own post had a bit of irony, what with the lack of a question mark where it was due.

VTEC Racer

I'm surprised you got such a big discount. I guess just because there are barely any stock on dealer lots doesn't mean that the car is actually in high demand.

VTEC Racer

Please just leave already. You have already made it very clear that you do nothing but troll and bash Acura. You have a 3G TL yet you've never posted once in the 3G forum. You have a mile-long list of cars that you are "considering" yet you are only a member of Acurazine. You say one thing but your actions say troll. You've stated your intention of being here as research for a possible 4G TL purchase but you've already thrown that out the window. So what exactly is your purpose here other than to bash Acura?

VTEC Racer

Apparently the professionals disagree with you: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews..._s4/index.html

TechnoCat

Do some research. Audi sales are way up. TL sales are way down. The S4 is hard to find; they're advertizing the TL SH-AWD $4K below sticker on the freeway! Which car isn't in high-demand? My big discount may, as Winslo hypothesizes, be due to my relationship with this dealership - I've bought three cars from them in the past 15 years, and am probably considered worthy of taking a push on for future sales.

Do realize that your post will live on the internet, demonstrating your bias, partisanship, and inability to do even the most remedial of searches before posting!

VTEC Racer

The thing is that I did do my research. My research showed me that there are 203 S4's available in the country and 128 6 speed TL's available on dealer lots. My research also showed me that A4 sales are DOWN, despite Audi sales being up, but still thousands of units below Acura. My research showed me that while only equipped with the Drive Select package and not a single other option, an S4 Prestige has a sticker price that's $15,000 more than a 6 speed TL. My research has shown me that at a 70 MPH cruise, the "quieter" S4 has a Db rating of 63.0 while the TL's is at 57.5.

As you can see, my research of facts goes against almost everything you are claiming: availability, price, sales, performance, etc.... Dealers are here to make money. They don't trade cars with other dealer in different states which are apparently in very high demand but with very low availability JUST so they can sell it to you for a huge discount. I don't care what your relationship with the dealer is, it's not good enough for the discount you got, UNLESS, of course, the car isn't in as high demand as you claim it to be. Nonetheless, who cares because facts are facts.

Other members have asked you to post pictures (i.e. not me!), so what are you waiting for? I don't think it will be considered showing off; we are past that point already.

Ironically, my research also showed me that despite the S4 being supercharged Audi still decided to badge it with a 3.0T emblem even though Audi has traditionally always reserved T for it's TURBO engines. Shouldn't that automatically disqualify the S4 from being a luxury car for you due to lack of attention to detail?

Now I must ask YOU, do realize that your post will live on the internet, demonstrating your bias, partisanship, and inability to do even the most remedial of searches before posting! (I love the political lingo lol).

winstrolvtec

Who needs to do the research? Actually going off of the last monthly sales report Acura sales are way up (24%) just about as much as Audi (27%) and the TL is only down like 4.5% as is the A4, which is down 2.6%.

So while their demand is up on certain cars like the A3 their inventory is super low compared to others due to economic restrictions and likely to help keep dealer profits up, adding to the perception that things are in such high demand. I would bet that is acting as a double edged sword though as the proportion of Audi dealers to sales still has many dealers crying for business, that's why S4's can have over $3k ($1,500 automatic and roughly another $1,500 in total for loyalty and retention programs) of incentives attached to them already going for invoice, previous relationship or not.

Audi is still hurting like almost every other brand is despite the recent success of the A3. They still sell the least in the US of the major luxury brands and even Infiniti has now surpassed them. Not to take away as they are a fine brand and make a good car but lets keep things straight and in perspective around here.

No offense but I think this now applies mostly to you.

TechnoCat

Your research is wrong. I note that you, purposefully probably, compared 6MT TL to all S4 for availability. And you seem to cherry-pick the oddest sources for your data; anyone who has driven both, and most reviews, point out for example that the S4 is quieter, and even the review your previous post referenced was clear that the TL has many "curious omissions" at the price point, lower perceived build quality (door sound), etc.

Your assumptions again demonstrate your ignorance. I tried for quite a while to track down a 6MT S4; they are essentially sold-out. AutoNation cannot get them, while they have 6MT TLs up the wazoo. Just because I apparently got a pretty spectacular price doesn't say anything about availability; how many cars have you simply ordered from the same dealer over the phone in the last 15 years? If the answer is less than three, you are a poser rather than having any grounds for an opinion at all!

Try this: Call up AutoNation and try to get a black TL SH-AWD 6MT and a black S4 Prestige 6MT. Just try it. Report back. I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in whether you'll put some time where your mouth is.

The "T" badge is an interesting one, but BMW used to name their cars for engine size and at some point switched; it hardly "disqualifies" the car for them to put a label on the side that isn't precisely reflective of the inside. Is a "Mustang" really a horse? Is a "Silver Spur" really made out of soft precious metals?

VTEC Racer

About what I expected... If facts go against what you say, then they must be wrong. If a fact cannot be disputed, then compare it to something else to justify it. Oh brother!

BTW, I'm sure the members who requested to see pics of your car would love it if you posted some!

JM2010 SH-AWD

Don't know what, if anything, this adds to the discussion or what, if anything, it proves, but Autotrader shows 127 6MT S4s available for sale (new) and 127 TL 6MTs(new) in the USA.

Both are very low volume vehicles. Neither is "sold out," but there may be limited availability in a particular locale for either one, since they are averaging around 1-2 per state for sale. And of course, not all dealers (but most, I think) advertise on Autotrader.

winstrolvtec

Not to get in between here but I and many would likely agree with the lower perceived build quality part, although it has more to due with some materials and cost and not so much the build part alone but I disagree with the "curious omissions". A 335xi, S4, C350 all start around the point that the TL SH ends, more or less. They have no additional options or packages yet the next size up TL is loaded and is questioned as having omissions for that price?

Even a similarly priced and equipped 328 and A4 might have a few more features but it's not a large mid sized sedan, does not have over 300 hp, no active differential, yet maybe it's only actual consumers who question those omissions instead. From the article itself it's ironic how the tester, editor, or whatever mentions this but is comparing cars with at least a $10k price difference when somewhat similarly equipped in the first place.

The TL has tested well for NVH on more than one ocassion. We see evidence here of that and even Edmunds TL results rate better than their A6 results. I suspect side by side comparisons would have the TL a bit worse than A6 or the S4 more times than not but it is still very quiet, dare I say as quiet on even, flat, straight surfaces. It's over bumps and wind noise where I would expect it suffers.

If these numbers prove accurate then that basically ends the inventory and demand debate.

TechnoCat

Strange, that's not what I see. Looking for 2010-2011 dealer Audi S4 manual AWD and Acura TL manual AWD, I see 95 TLs and 60 S4s. And those numbers are wrong; locally it shows three S4 6MT at Barrier, who has zero. None. I've been there nearly daily for the past two weeks. They show cars sold a month ago and they have no S4 6MT cars coming in over the next few weeks that are not pre-sold. Call them: 425 643-3000.

AutoTrader also shows the TL SH-AWD 6MT locally, and that is correct; I was at Acura of Bellevue Thursday (returning the extended warranty - I really did intend to keep the car a long time when I bought it) and saw at least four such TLs. You can call them too to verify.

This is why I suggested AutoNation. AutoTrader is usually out-of-date, as are dealer websites, because it's in the dealer's best interest to get you in there for looking, hoping to convert you to something they actually have. AutoNation sells cars from dealers, so they can only tell you about what they actually have, especially if you indicate you might want to test drive it.

The A4 is down 2.6% for the year from the previous year, but the A5 is up 131%; there's no TL 2door equivalent. I don't think Audi reports S4 numbers separately. (Both Audi and Acura are up about 23% for the year.) The TL is down 9% from a year ago and about 30% from two years ago.

Note: there are a lot of clickable links in that paragraph, to the sales numbers.

This is all a rather silly debate though. VTec wants to defend his choice of car as if me preferring an S4 somehow reduces his manhood. It doesn't. The TL SH-AWD 6MT is a fine car. The S4 Prestige 6MT is, for me, a better car but it's also 25% more expensive. For 25% more, you darned well better get more car! My main gripe all along has been that the TL isn't a "luxury" car by my standards; that (and better seats) is what that hunk-o-cash buys me. I paid a luxury price to get luxury. The TL claims to be luxury, but it's really more of a sports-sedan, and a very good one, with a few luxury features and a lot of high-tech features.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Oops, sorry I had a typo in my earlier post re: Autotrader - should be 64 S4 6MTs and 127 TL 6MTs.

Pete2010

Awesome pickup. It's obvious you've never been 100% happy with the TL, nothing wrong with that, that's why they make so many different cars. The S4 is a beast of a car. And you're right, for 25% more, you better be getting 25% better of a car, which I believe the S4 is right on with.

Post some pics - I'm sure we'd all love to see it. I'd post them over in the Car Talk section, I'm sure there are many people that would love to see it.

jasonwdp10

If the A4/S4's sound deadening is anything like the A5's, it's significantly quieter than the TL (Base or SHAWD) in everything except wind noise above 80mph. My "Quieter than the auto SHAWD" Base TL is supposedly the 3rd quietest acura behind the ZDX and the RL and my gf's A5 is significantly quieter in all situations except for wind noise above 80mph... so yea..

Our human ears don't work the same way db meters do.. just food for thought.

Acura still has a long way to go before they figure out an optimal NVH level in their cars.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

<p>Translation: baby is crying again. I don't go after you, yet you insist on tracking my every movement. It's fantastic, really. Seriously though man, why are you so judgmental and intolerant of the way others act? Haven't you ever heard of "Live and let live"?

And my list of cars is what, four (MMC 4G, Regal GS, Genesis, 9-5)? Miles and miles long, that.

Next time you want to reply to a post of mine with your time of the month bitchiness, just shut the fuck up. It's that simple.
Apparently professionals also ranked the Camry above the competition, which included the Fusion, Sonata, and Accord.
But thanks for the empty shell of a comment.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Disregarding all the back and forth bickering above, congrats on the new car Techno. As Petec said, it's clear the TL never suited you so I'm glad to see you've moved on. A lot of us like the car and are very happy with it, but as with wine and women, if you're not, life's too short to spend it with something (or someone) you don't like.

Enjoy the S4 - I hope it works out for you. As others have said, let's see some pix.

VTEC Racer

Dude, you've been crying since the day you got here. It's nothing but complaints and bitching about Acura from you. You've made yourself a target. Again, you have a mile list of cars but you are ONLY a member of Acurazine. Why is that? You've already said "screw Acura". So screw them and leave if you have no other purpose here. It isn't to do research on the 4G because you've already screwed Acura and you don't post at all in the 3g forums. So tell me what you are here for? All you post is complaint after complaint after complaint. I am sick of it and so are many of the other members here. I have heard of live and let live. Have you? 1,500 posts of complaints about Acura and your telling me to live and let live lol. I am not intolerant of the way other people act. However, I am intolerant with people who come to a specific forum and do nothing but complain about that specific product.

Also keep in mind that instead of maintaining a mature persona, you have resorted to name calling and cursing.

Who cares about the Camry? The point of my article was to show that what you said was totally false, to which you had no legitimate response.

Once again, you contribute nothing to these forums but complaints and drama. Until your actions begin to back up your words, I will continue to do my part.

MurkyRiversTL

There wont be pictures guys..... he doesnt own the car.
This is a post to get him to post pictures. Lets see if it works

TechnoCat

That's how we know you are a enuch and don't have any friends too... no pictures!
I've just never been very visually oriented, so I don't take pictures often and find it inconvenient to do so and upload them. Besides, at least with my TL, it was unique (or at least rare) in the change I had the dealer do to the plenum. My S4 looks like every other 2011 black S4.

MurkyRiversTL

a enuch or did you mean eunuch? I dont know how the hell I have kids..... must be the mail mans kids. and this whole time I thought I was playing with myself it was just my belly button.... damn it.

Its ok Techno, Im sure some one believes you own the car.

TechnoCat

Women can play with themselves. I like to help out when possible, of course.

Nah, you're right... that huge list of differences (and here's another one: deep in an iPod artist, hit back/return, the TL goes to "A" (which is especially annoying since it can't scroll down quickly), while the S4 goes back to the last artist's place in the alphabet)... that huge list of differences is common knowledge that I picked up on other boards, correlating in a spreadsheet all the behaviors of the TL and the S4, because if I'm going to be a troll, I'm going to be the ultimate wonk-troll dammit!

MurkyRiversTL

lol... go big or go home right. BTW, alot of the information you speak of is found on Audizine..... Im a member same user name as on here lol

TechnoCat

Okay, my turn to LOL! (Like the white, BTW.)

Why, oh why, are you on AudiZine? I'm not; I didn't even know it existed until a week ago when someone here mentioned it.

For your edification, I have now posted three pics of my new ride. Not that they look any different than any other black S4, but the last one does prove it was me taking the shots!
The Front

The Dash

The wonderfully-flat trunk floor and innovative folding seats!

MurkyRiversTL

LMAO! Nice folding seats. The epitome of luxury viewed from the trunk. Ive been lurking on Audizine for years but registered a few months ago. Ive actually had several usernames on there over the last two years lol. I love Audi's and have since the B6.

compewterbleu

VTEC Racer, cats like this dude aren't even worth replying to.

compewterbleu

Boring

07wdptl-s

all i have to say is german cars are great when they are new, but if you keep the car long enough and the warranty is done lookout. not only will you pay with your arm and leg for repairs, but your trade in value will definitely be hit hard worst than any acura or honda for that matter.

MurkyRiversTL

fixed!

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

You knew what problem I was experiencing at that point a while ago. That post is still there if you never noticed why. Sometimes a car with a problem pisses you off doesn't it? Yeah, I felt a little pissed off.

You can also halt the lies of me never posting in the 3G section or that I have a mile long list of cars, both of which can/have been refuted already.

I was linked to the truly epic My Sidechick fail thread, hence my display name. Many of us just wanted to create a profile and leave our mark, and I decided to stick around for a while as some of them did.

Is that so terrible, so intolerable for you? I don't like what Acura has become and that bothers you. Of course it would appear as though MANY posters throughout Acurazine feel this way.

And if you think "mature" people don't curse you're truly in another dimension. It's also surprising you comment on others' maturity when you yourself single out others to annoy and (attempt to) belittle and drive away. You certainly can't APPLY Live and let live to your E-life can you?

So leave me alone. It's that simple. Put me on ignore if I'm that unbearable; that's what the feature is for. I don't ask for you to like me, my posts, or my beliefs, but I ask you to leave me alone if you have nothing better to do than what can only be described as complaining about a complainer. I'm not perfect either. I complain about SSTFSX. But I've let it go now. Some things are just the way they have to be.

Now if you'd like, it'd be nice to get back to a discussion on cars, the 2010 S4 in this instance.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

That's a pretty nice ride there!

Enjoy that. I wish I could have one.

TechnoCat

So... entertain us!