FanaticFan

So don't want to be an online pest, and am new here. I will try to remain humble and calm.

I'm considering getting either a TL-SH-AWD or an Avalon, new.

Practicality suggests the Avalon; it's quiet, roomy, comfortable, and runs on regular. The back seats have lots of foot room, and recline.

Romance suggests the TL. It drives amazingly, the tech for all it's busy-ness I find incredibly ergonomic and well-integrated. The car just fits me, as a driver, but I worry at the expense of my passengers, front and especially, back.

I'd be taking it periodically on long hauls, 12-hr day type highway trips. I'd hate for the noise and tightness of the car to prove wearisome under such circumstances.

I'm at the age and keep cars long enough (currently have 15-yr-old Avalon, and Honda) that this could truly be my last car, and outlast me. That's where I start to get impractical, and want to be selfish and have the driving experience of the TL.

Am I being foolish? Thoughts and advice most welcome.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Welcome Fanatic!

You're going to get biased Acura opinions from this site. But if you've got a 15 year old Avalon, it's time for something different-don't you think?

Edward'TLS

It depends on what you want in your ride : a sport sedan or a lazy boat.

The TL is built for spirited driving, whereas the Avalon is great for a easy, quiet, and soft pillowy ride.

A similar alternative to the Avalon is the Hyundai Azera.

under9hell

I would suggest the ES350. That may fit you better than the TL in the same price range

FanaticFan

Hi Steven, thanks for the welcome! Understood re: opinion bias; I've started a similar thread on a Toyota Avalon forum, hopefully I can get enthusiast perspectives from both sides.

It's been a lifelong ambivalence for me; I love a great-driving car, cut my teeth at 16 a thousand years ago on my Dad's BMW 2002 in the 70's. Otoh a car these days, with streets and highways so crowded and broken down, is mostly an appliance; chances to enjoy the performance are few and far between. So why not just go for space and comfort?

I need to tip the equation decisively one way or the other.

Thanks for the ES 350 suggestion, but that's not on my radar. If I'm going the "practical boat" route, the Avalon is as far as I need to go in terms of luxury. If I want to get impractical, no contest: I'd pick the TL over any Audi, BMW (M3 included), Mercedes, Lexus or Korean car without blinking an eye. Not even worth starting that conversation.

DannyZRC

I'm a big guy, and I find the back of the TL totally reasonable (6'2", 285, long torso and big arse so I 'sit big').

Question : how often do you wish for a sportier drive when you are cruising around in your Avalon? Do you hit (on/off)ramps and sigh wistfully? Do you putter through scenic byways and mutter to yourself about wasting such nice roads? That kind of thing.

As far as cars in general go, seems like cars are getting to be less fun and more comfortable. For example; I'd favorably compare the TL's ride comfort to a 94' S420 Mercedes (my dad's jalopy, heh) which was a super limo of its day, whereas people whine about the TL being too firm today. I didn't really start cruising the forums too much until after I'd already driven in a TL, and almost died laughing when I saw all the complaints about the ride, the TL is as soft as I could accept a car (good damping definitely helps keep me happy as offset), but this probably has to do with my 27itis.

I don't really 'get' the Avalon, so.. do you dig your Avalon? Care to share why you went with the Avalon 15 years ago?

Mitch-S

A fully loaded Avalon is $40k. Get the TL. More car for your $.

Toyota is nice but that's not even luxury line. It's like comparing a GS to a Honda Accord.

Get the TL and you'll be happy!

potmilkz

avalon = smooth ride

tl = bumpy ride.

crazyasiantl

iTrader: (7)

my fiancee has an 06 Avalon XLS that was gifted to her.

so far, it has been a great car. No issues and just regular maintenance.

it rides great, gets awesome highway mileage (34mpgs averaging 75-80mph..hers is the 5AT, not sure how the 6ATs do) has gobs of room, more than enough power, and the JBL sound is pretty good.

It does feel like a boat and looks like a grandma car (we are looking to tint the windows to get rid of the gma look)

spend some serious seat time in both and compare them. tell the salesman that you arent looking to buy just yet, just compare. I know if you are serious, some dealers will let you take a car for 24 hours. see if you can do that with both.

good luck and im sure you will enjoy either car

FanaticFan

Agreed that the complaints about the TL's ride are overdone, and yes, I also consider the TL more car for the money.

Ok, so let me reveal I also got a Prelude SH new when I got the Avalon in '97.... hope neither of the dealers I'm talking to are on here! <g>....

The Prelude is my car, the Avalon my wife's. We got the latter as the "family traveller" vehicle as the back seats in the Prelude are a bit tight for long trips.

So, just saying, have had 15 years to compare boat vs. sports car.

The Avalon, being bigger and heavier, has worn a bit more over that time, though both cars are still in excellent shape. Has more miles on it, too.

So again, pure logic dictates we drop the Avalon for a new one, to have a safe long-distance traveler. But I'd rather, if we're going to spend the money now, go for the TL (more fun! In myriad ways!), since it'll be a long time before we get another car again.

My kid's in college now, and while I'd rather be driving up to pick her up and drop her off when she comes home for summers in the TL, the Avalon is more the "limo ride" treatment during those times, and she deserves that, she's a hard worker and already very diligent and smart about how she spends her money (and ours).

Past that brief period, my wife and I now have more time on our hands and want to enjoy traveling again. To be honest, I do most of the driving and would enjoy the TL more, whereas I know she'd be more comfortable in the Avalon. Plus, my work has dictated we move a lot over the years; have found a position recently that hopefully will stick a lot longer, but, you never know. The spaciousness of the Avalon has proven convenient during moves, since I can take more stuff I'd worry about being smashed/fried by the movers in it (fortunately, the past few moves have been great, but there have been horror stories in my past, too).

So, tough picture, eh? How do I solve this dilemma?! My heart and soul says TL, damn the practicalities; my Inner Spock says Avalon. I fear neighbor envy and co-worker Evil Eye if I get the TL; I fear boredom if I get the Avalon.

FanaticFan

Oh and Dan, to answer your questions more directly: yeah, when in the Avalon, I do find myself having less fun driving. My wife likes that fact about it on long trips, it keeps me from doing anything that will leave her grabbing for handles to hold onto (she spends her time in the passenger seat holding on to the handle and complains about the car being "uncomfortable" <g>). You might say, though, that in that way the Avalon encourages me to be a safer driver. It has plenty of power for emergency maneuvers. Totally crappy sound system but increasingly I prefer being attentive to the road with my ears as well as eyes when I drive (my Prelude SH has a great sound system, for its time and price, but I've used it less and less over the years as I enjoy the driving more without the distraction).

What I dig about the Avalon is precisely the "old man's" car false mystique (a lot of kids are buying up used ones, btw, as they realize what great cars they are). It's not a car that gets anyone's attention, so it's less stressful to have and be in that way. Feels like everyone expects me to drive like a but in my Prelude (I get tailgated a lot when I'm trying to drive at speed limit and economically; I save my fun on the road for when there are no other drivers around, or passengers in my car...).

OTOH the TL would be the best of both worlds, I think, since it'd be fun to drive but comfortable enough (?) for a long trip.

Thanks everyone so far for your great replies, btw!

FanaticFan

Meant to say above, my wife hangs on for dear life when in my Prelude. can't edit posts yet. I think she overreacts.

DibbyD

You may want to wait to check out the 2013 Avalon, which recently debuted at the New York Auto Show. Check it out here:

http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows...toyota_avalon/

I think Toyota is trying to inject a little more fun into their vehicles, so the new Avalon may be a good mix of the comfort and sport that you are looking for.

FanaticFan

Looks cool! Plus finally, they got back the big trunk. Still don't think the tech will be as well-integrated as it is on the TL, though.

Maybe I can use this as an excuse to get the TL now, and the Avalon for my wife next year if things go well....?

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

you only live once...might as well enjoy it! the grandpa stigma with the avalon...or the fun and sportiness of the TL.

having driven 4G loaners on a number of occasions (granted the FWD version of the TL), it drives quite nicely. it is just firm enough, but forgiving for daily driving and handles very well. one with SHAWD would only enhance the driving experience thorugh twisties or cornering. in the MDX the SHAWD is amazing for a 4500 lb SUV and makes the MDX want to handle like a sedan.

the tech goodies would be much more refined and abundant in the TL over the avalon (entry level luxury vs mainstream practical). based on your criteria, it would be a tough pick considering the wife's wants and needs in a car. has she been in the TL yet?

how often are you hauling stuff? how often are you hauling people? the TL will be a bit small in cargo space but the backseats are comfortable for a grown adult with plenty of space. i just imagine the avalon being the japanese version of a town car just a hair smaller.

if you like the avalon, why not check out the lexus equivalent? you'll still get the comfy ride your wife seeks, but all the tech goodies and a little bit of sportiness.

FanaticFan

She's been In the TL and is ok with it, but for her a car is like a hair dryer, she considers anything beyond sheer utility an extravagance.

Don't do a lot of hauling or people carrying, but like the room for same when needed. For my daily commute, my Prelude is fine (as long as it keeps running).

But yes, you only live once and the past few years have been no fun at all. I'm tired of utilitarianism.

g37guy01

Sounds like my wife, that's all I'll say in writing.

ZCL

And a fully loaded TL is near $50k. Point?

FanaticFan

That's the thing, since we keep a car forever, $10k band in the price is manageable over 15 years. What is not is either 15 years of boredom and regret, or 15 years of uncomfortable, complain

g37guy01

Actually you raise a good thought...what about the ES350? I took one out on two extended test drives. I really liked it, except I wanted something sportier, with a RWD bias. But can't beat Lexus fit and finish.

FanaticFan

[QUOTE=FanaticFan;13686164]That's the thing, since we keep a car forever, $10k band in the price is manageable over 15 years. What is not is either 15 years of boredom and regret, or 15 years of uncomfortable, complaining wife, and regret.

This forum could use an iPhone app, or is there one out there you'd recommend?

FanaticFan

ES 350 is luxurious, yes, but I'd prefer the sportiness of the TL. The Avalon (esp. 2013 version) is the only alternative we're considering.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

and what's wrong with a little "extravagance"? you work hard for your money and sent the kids off the college...enjoy the little things. of course i know most women would rather have the "extravagance" in the form of a spa day, or a fancy kitchen, not a car. lol. i'd like to have a little bit of everything. then again i'm probably one of the only ladies that would rather have extra garage space than a fancy kitchen. she might need to live in the TL a bit to get used to some of the creature comforts it offers.

FanaticFan

It's always a balancing act, isn't it?

Mentioned the new Avalon to her, now she's, "ok let's wait and take a look at that when it's out." .... she has a real genius for not spending money! Sigh.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

she just wants to make an educated, money smart decision...but just nudge her a bit to say this maybe the last car we ever buy...why not spoil ourselves a little?

about money....slight OT, my other half's dad a few yrs ago bought a lexus RX at the nudges of the kids saying "dad you need a nicer newer car". he was driving a 99 chrysler town and country with like maybe 65k mi on it at the time. so he bought the lexus (paid cash), drove it home. that was a friday. by monday he changed his mind and returned the car, drove the car back to the dealer (mind you all he did was essentially take the car for the weekend and didnt' drive it). they refunded his money less $500 for the salesman's time. his dad said, "it's too much car for me. i'm fine with the minivan and there is nothing wrong with it." the only person i know that would return a brand new lexus. so he drove the minivan until he passed last fall. we took it to carmax, got $2k for it. it only had 70k mi on it.

why i share this? i can possibly see where your wife is coming from. however you're a car enthusiast...so the attraction to a car is different than most. just remind your wife...you can't take the money with you.

g37guy01

Leaving some for the kids isn't bad either.

My mom was particular, while my Dad drove a Chrysler my mom drove Lexus.

So maybe an Avalon really isn't a bad compromise. Sometimes you have to listen to the wife.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

eh, true, though i dont' anticipate inheriting much from my parents, so i'll prepare for the future assuming i won't have anything extra coming my way or SS or medicare....

what's the old saying? a happy wife is a happy life. tough choice for the OP.

012TL-GLM

i went from a 2006 limited avalon to my tl. figured i could share some insight

avalon was limited model, no navi though
sofa on four wheels, most comfy car ive been in
boring to drive, and i mean that in the harshest way. steering was lifeless, handling was questionable over 85mph, stereo was blah.
huge comfy back seat, great for long trips
incredible gas mileage for a huge car, usually 30+ on highway

2012 tl sh-awd
FUN to drive, handles great, plenty of power, good road feel (not quite bmw feel, but close)
back seats are not a gift to rear passengers on long trips
trunk space limited
stereo is fantastic
tech is fabulous
FUN

the avalon was super reliable, never in shop except for recalls which i never thought necessary. almost 6k miles on the tl and all is well. i had a 2000 slp gtp before the avalin and missed it everyday. the tl has taken its place, great car.

for a drivers car, go with tl, if passemger comfort is a priority, avalon wins hands down

FanaticFan

My saying has always been, why save? You're only increasing the pile you'll give to the medical industry when you're old.... I'd rather spend it on a TL than pills and cancer treatments, for sure.

Yeah, it's a tough one. I don't want to be selfish.... but I also do.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Have you considered the FWD TL with Tech? A little softer ride than the AWD, and a little roomier (no hump to accomodate the rear diff). I had one recently as a loaner and was pleasantly surprised by the handling and acceleration. Might split the difference b/t the AWD TL and the Avalon.

FanaticFan

You nail it, plus remind me of the one thing I always disliked about our Avalon: terribly undersized brakes for the weight. While I've never been worried about acceleration or maneuverability, brake fade, especially on mountain roads, is pretty bad. Never felt good about its controllability in a hard emergency stop from higher speeds, either.

FanaticFan

It's a good thought, but I'm all in one way or the other: if we're going for comfort --> Avalon; if we're going for performance, driving feel --> TL SH-AWD.

The FWD is a fine car, it's the first one we test drove when we started looking, but I'd really go for the SH-AWD and Advance package if we went this way, the differences in firmness and comfort are slight, and the performance advantages are real (if only rarely used).

That's the other thing, though; I felt when test-driving the SH-AWD that just doing the usual putter around the block, I'd really have to take it out on a track to get a feel for it; even with my old Prelude SH, the ATTS only comes into play on rare occasions, when I choose to push it in the right and edge case conditions.

SlowLane

I'm just curious. Has anyone driven or seen the new Hyundai Azera? I heard it was a potential competitor to cars like the Avalon and ES. I am sure it isn't as sporty as the TL.

crazyasiantl

iTrader: (7)

brakes was another thing i forgot to mention.

I always had a hard time slowing down the Avalon, even in everyday driving. the pedal just felt spongy compared to my old TL and current MS3.

If the wife drives the Avalon, make sure she takes the turns wide. My fiancee has cut some turns/corners short and has jumped several curves and rashed the right side wheels she just isnt used to a car that big

ZCL

New ES350 looks promising. I drove the GS350 and really liked it. (New GS wasn't out yet) I felt like the GS350 was a decades old design on the inside, part of what sold me on the '12 TL.

FanaticFan

Yes, looking at pics of the new Avalon, the ergonomics look slightly improved, but cockpit ergonomics still seem two generations behind the TL's.

Eli

Actually the FWD TL has the same hump in the back. The Avalon has a flat floor and 3 adults in the back works without complaints, the rear seats are practically limousine spec.

Edward'TLS

Since it's either one way or the other : sport ride or boat ride, and nothing in between, it will be an easy decision.

Make up your mind (sport or boat) and go for it.

DannyZRC

I'm a huge fan of AWD, I don't think I'll ever buy another non-AWD car as long as I live.

In the case of SH-AWD especially, it provides for a lot more control during aggressive maneuvers, and is well integrated with the VSA. Speaking of the VSA, Honda VSA is by far the smoothest and best of the vehicle stability suites (I test drove a G37x not too long ago in the rain, it behaved... very badly, and I've had very negative experiences with BMW DSC in the dry).

For me, SH-AWD is as much about safety and security as it is about performance, the deep integrated of SH-AWD and VSA, the extra traction for when it snows or rains, that stuff is the truly priceless part.

g37guy01

Well that's the first time I heard that on the internet. Considering the Gs drivetrain and electronics have been been very well lauded.

Meh, when I retire to San Diego, no way would I need an AWD vehicle.