TL SH-AWD or Avalon? (don't hit me...)
#41
Burning Brakes
I could not edit the above post fast enough, but this is what a somewhat unbiased opinion is.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/special-...ars-for-winter
http://www.roadandtrack.com/special-...ars-for-winter
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FanaticFan (04-10-2012)
#42
Drifting
I should have been more clear - the FWD does not have the hump in the center seating position, but it does have a hump on the floor.
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FanaticFan (04-10-2012)
#43
I've never thought of AWD as just for wet or icy weather; it's a specific kind of driving performance that optimizes turns, basically. Ends the argument over FWD vs. RWD pretty much (though each has its advantages as well, all depends on what you're doing).
#44
Burning Brakes
Awd also eats worse mileage than fwd or awd setup. That the bugatti comes with awd is telling. But if I lived in a nonsnow climate it would be rwd.
#45
So don't want to be an online pest, and am new here. I will try to remain humble and calm.
I'm considering getting either a TL-SH-AWD or an Avalon, new.
Practicality suggests the Avalon; it's quiet, roomy, comfortable, and runs on regular. The back seats have lots of foot room, and recline.
Romance suggests the TL. It drives amazingly, the tech for all it's busy-ness I find incredibly ergonomic and well-integrated. The car just fits me, as a driver, but I worry at the expense of my passengers, front and especially, back.
I'd be taking it periodically on long hauls, 12-hr day type highway trips. I'd hate for the noise and tightness of the car to prove wearisome under such circumstances.
I'm at the age and keep cars long enough (currently have 15-yr-old Avalon, and Honda) that this could truly be my last car, and outlast me. That's where I start to get impractical, and want to be selfish and have the driving experience of the TL.
Am I being foolish? Thoughts and advice most welcome.
I'm considering getting either a TL-SH-AWD or an Avalon, new.
Practicality suggests the Avalon; it's quiet, roomy, comfortable, and runs on regular. The back seats have lots of foot room, and recline.
Romance suggests the TL. It drives amazingly, the tech for all it's busy-ness I find incredibly ergonomic and well-integrated. The car just fits me, as a driver, but I worry at the expense of my passengers, front and especially, back.
I'd be taking it periodically on long hauls, 12-hr day type highway trips. I'd hate for the noise and tightness of the car to prove wearisome under such circumstances.
I'm at the age and keep cars long enough (currently have 15-yr-old Avalon, and Honda) that this could truly be my last car, and outlast me. That's where I start to get impractical, and want to be selfish and have the driving experience of the TL.
Am I being foolish? Thoughts and advice most welcome.
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FanaticFan (04-10-2012)
#46
Drifting
Good luck with your decision. Let us know what you end up doing.
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FanaticFan (04-10-2012)
#48
That's right. The SH-AWD system is principally a handling aid, that lets a 3800 pound car do amazing things in the turns. I agree that it really should end the debate over FWD vs RWD. When the car is just cruising down the road you get the efficiencies of FWD. When you push it, you get a neutral-handling car that refuses to be upset by throttle position, slip angle, etc. And in bad weather, you have the added traction of AWD. One possible downside is MPG due to the extra weight of the system, but I'm averaging over 25 mpg on my car with a 50/50 mix of urban-suburban/highway driving, so I don't consider that too bad for a 305HP, 4-door sedan.
Good luck with your decision. Let us know what you end up doing.
Good luck with your decision. Let us know what you end up doing.
Thanks, all, and I'll let you know where we end up.
#49
Well if I cave to my wife's practicality for the sake of peace in the house.... maybe I'll just have to be saving up soon after for MY TL. thanks for your thoughts!
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FanaticFan (04-10-2012)
#51
Drifting
iTrader: (5)
I've only been married for a year (togther 2) and have developed a thick skin towards the wife nagging! I'm sure you have a tougher hide than I do . When I had my 04 6spd TL my wife never understood why I enjoyed revving it high and driving it aggressivily; being from europe she was familiar with MT but never drove anything faster/bigger than small i4s. When I let her have a go at the TL she loved it and understood the reason for my madness.
I'm not saying you should get a MT or that your wife will like to drive one, but the TL is also an awesome cruiser. She'll feel right at home behind the wheel in no time.
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FanaticFan (04-10-2012)
#52
I suppose this is a good place to insert the longer term question : if the TL is replacing your wife's Avalon, will she be usually driving it still except on trips? Do you currently usually drive the Prelude, and will that still be the case afterwards?
What is the plan for the future of the Prelude?
Y'know, zooming out a bit, looking at the whole system.
What is the plan for the future of the Prelude?
Y'know, zooming out a bit, looking at the whole system.
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FanaticFan (04-10-2012)
#53
I suppose this is a good place to insert the longer term question : if the TL is replacing your wife's Avalon, will she be usually driving it still except on trips? Do you currently usually drive the Prelude, and will that still be the case afterwards?
What is the plan for the future of the Prelude?
Y'know, zooming out a bit, looking at the whole system.
What is the plan for the future of the Prelude?
Y'know, zooming out a bit, looking at the whole system.
If we went TL, the Prelude would be going to a happy new owner somewhere. My wife is a putter-around driver, and we'd probably just keep Ye Olde '97 going until it well and truly died, and then she'd be happy with a safe appliance vehicle as replacement, used Camry, etc. She's really kind of an anti-car person, basically, sees no value in anything beyond It Goes, Stops, Has Enough Room and Doesn't Cost Much. She test-drive the SH-AWD, did nothing for her O_o... we'd use the TL as our long-hauler when needed, to avoid having to become too chummy with the locals in some remote scary village when the wheels fell off.
Other way around, if we went Avalon, it'd be her putter-car and we'd use it for the long hauls, and I'd continue terrorizing the locals during my commute in my ancient Prelude.
Difficult to find an entirely rational and happy compromise in this scenario, at least so far as I can see. Unless Acura promises a 16 cu. ft. trunk on the 2013 model and 3 in. more legroom in the back. <g>
#54
Fanatic, I have driven 3 TLs and also 2 Toyotas and I would suggest listern to your heart. Also, for the front seats, the TL has a better lumbar support system so during long rides, t puts less stress to your back and I think your wife would appreciate that.
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FanaticFan (04-10-2012)
#55
sounds like you save money by going with the TL, if she really is happy with a used camry or suchlike.
Since you need Some Car, Any Car, to be a good road tripper, and being a good road tripper means that this Some Car, Any Car will be a bit expensive, your marginal cost increase to get to TL from Avalon is not that high.
If you got the Avalon, I imagine you would still feel the itch to replace your prelude at some point? So Avalon + that future car is probably more expensive than TL + future used Camry.
This all hinges on the theoretical future value differential* between your non-TL sporty runabout, and her non-Avalon loafy runabout.
theoretical future value differential* this phrase is total BS, but isn't it fun?
Since you need Some Car, Any Car, to be a good road tripper, and being a good road tripper means that this Some Car, Any Car will be a bit expensive, your marginal cost increase to get to TL from Avalon is not that high.
If you got the Avalon, I imagine you would still feel the itch to replace your prelude at some point? So Avalon + that future car is probably more expensive than TL + future used Camry.
This all hinges on the theoretical future value differential* between your non-TL sporty runabout, and her non-Avalon loafy runabout.
theoretical future value differential* this phrase is total BS, but isn't it fun?
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FanaticFan (04-10-2012)
#56
sounds like you save money by going with the TL, if she really is happy with a used camry or suchlike.
Since you need Some Car, Any Car, to be a good road tripper, and being a good road tripper means that this Some Car, Any Car will be a bit expensive, your marginal cost increase to get to TL from Avalon is not that high.
If you got the Avalon, I imagine you would still feel the itch to replace your prelude at some point? So Avalon + that future car is probably more expensive than TL + future used Camry.
This all hinges on the theoretical future value differential* between your non-TL sporty runabout, and her non-Avalon loafy runabout.
theoretical future value differential* this phrase is total BS, but isn't it fun?
Since you need Some Car, Any Car, to be a good road tripper, and being a good road tripper means that this Some Car, Any Car will be a bit expensive, your marginal cost increase to get to TL from Avalon is not that high.
If you got the Avalon, I imagine you would still feel the itch to replace your prelude at some point? So Avalon + that future car is probably more expensive than TL + future used Camry.
This all hinges on the theoretical future value differential* between your non-TL sporty runabout, and her non-Avalon loafy runabout.
theoretical future value differential* this phrase is total BS, but isn't it fun?
#57
Moderator
if this is a car to go on trips, cruise, and also for your wife to drive..
i dont see a reason why you would purchase a TL over a avalon.
The avalon has nice ride, roomy, appeals to women,( due to the fact that it is simple go and stop car), simple to use and basically all around OK car.. as the TL is bumpy, very high tech, not comfortable, not roomy, and a sports car.
at the end, shes probably not going to appreciate how "good" the TL is as described to her by you..
women look for comfort and simplicity....
i dont see a reason why you would purchase a TL over a avalon.
The avalon has nice ride, roomy, appeals to women,( due to the fact that it is simple go and stop car), simple to use and basically all around OK car.. as the TL is bumpy, very high tech, not comfortable, not roomy, and a sports car.
at the end, shes probably not going to appreciate how "good" the TL is as described to her by you..
women look for comfort and simplicity....
Last edited by potmilkz; 04-10-2012 at 03:49 PM.
#59
Moderator
at the end of all this, we are infact on a acura forum, so some (or most) of you will go with the TL.
But as most of you guys experienced, in this world.. the wife will most likely get the last say in this and will probably stick to it..
actually the fully loaded avalon is almost/cheaper than the TL-SH-Tech
But as most of you guys experienced, in this world.. the wife will most likely get the last say in this and will probably stick to it..
actually the fully loaded avalon is almost/cheaper than the TL-SH-Tech
#60
Sounds like good science to me! Now I'd just have to convince her of that. I think she already partly is, but grudgingly. Greater enthusiasm would be preferable. Basically, buying the TL as a money-saving move: yeah, she's going to look sideways at that logic. ingenious, I think, but then again, that's because it supports my cause!
"Baby, honey, sweeeetie.. I'm gonna run roughshod over the budget anyway! Why? What do you mean why? Because: VroomVroom, racecar! This way at least it hurts less. It'll be great, you'll see! You'll never have so much fun spilling your coffee, I promise!"
=D
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FanaticFan (04-10-2012)
#61
Lol my ability to argue along those lines died about a decade ago. Let's just say that if I want to do anything like "spirited" driving in any car, I have to realize that I'm going to have to allocate at least half my mental bandwidth to responding to her objections. That probably officially becomes "distracted driving," which is illegal in my state....
#62
I linked my gf of almost 10 years to this to enjoy the amusing discussion.. here is my gchat after she read it, slightly censored.
Originally Posted by The GF
GF: 2:06 PM
"Women want simple cars" WHAT AN [Redacted]
DEAR [Redacted], KISS MY [Redacted]
bunch of [Redacted]
Me: 2:06 PM
I'm so tempted to copy/paste that verbatim into a response :p
like, you have no idea! hahaha
GF 2:07 PM
"the female animal is frightened of complex instrument arrays
..especially those that contain the s-h-i-f-t lever"
"one must not frighten them, and overwhelm their feeble minds"
ME 2:07 PM
well, I think guy is contemplating an autotragic TL
but yeah :p
GF 2:08 PM
"or place their delicate buttocks in any but the most softly suspended of cars"
THEN HOW IS A TL COMPLICATED
"Honey I am scared as [Redacted]- what are these extra letters here 'sh-awd'"?
"will this car eat me?"
seriously how dumb do these cavedouches think females are?
do they not know that women buy muscle cars like all the time?
oh yeah and what car do women LOVE?
the [Redacted] mini
ME 2:14 PM
now you're on the internet, hah!
"Women want simple cars" WHAT AN [Redacted]
DEAR [Redacted], KISS MY [Redacted]
bunch of [Redacted]
Me: 2:06 PM
I'm so tempted to copy/paste that verbatim into a response :p
like, you have no idea! hahaha
GF 2:07 PM
"the female animal is frightened of complex instrument arrays
..especially those that contain the s-h-i-f-t lever"
"one must not frighten them, and overwhelm their feeble minds"
ME 2:07 PM
well, I think guy is contemplating an autotragic TL
but yeah :p
GF 2:08 PM
"or place their delicate buttocks in any but the most softly suspended of cars"
THEN HOW IS A TL COMPLICATED
"Honey I am scared as [Redacted]- what are these extra letters here 'sh-awd'"?
"will this car eat me?"
seriously how dumb do these cavedouches think females are?
do they not know that women buy muscle cars like all the time?
oh yeah and what car do women LOVE?
the [Redacted] mini
ME 2:14 PM
now you're on the internet, hah!
#63
Moderator
originally posted by the gf
gf: 2:06 pm
"women want simple cars" what an [redacted]
dear [redacted], kiss my [redacted]
bunch of [redacted]
me: 2:06 pm
i'm so tempted to copy/paste that verbatim into a response :p
like, you have no idea! Hahaha
gf 2:07 pm
"the female animal is frightened of complex instrument arrays
..especially those that contain the s-h-i-f-t lever"
"one must not frighten them, and overwhelm their feeble minds"
me 2:07 pm
well, i think guy is contemplating an autotragic tl
but yeah :p
gf 2:08 pm
"or place their delicate buttocks in any but the most softly suspended of cars"
then how is a tl complicated
"honey i am scared as [redacted]- what are these extra letters here 'sh-awd'"?
"will this car eat me?"
seriously how dumb do these cavedouches think females are?
Do they not know that women buy muscle cars like all the time?
Oh yeah and what car do women love?
The [redacted] mini
me 2:14 pm
now you're on the internet, hah!
gf: 2:06 pm
"women want simple cars" what an [redacted]
dear [redacted], kiss my [redacted]
bunch of [redacted]
me: 2:06 pm
i'm so tempted to copy/paste that verbatim into a response :p
like, you have no idea! Hahaha
gf 2:07 pm
"the female animal is frightened of complex instrument arrays
..especially those that contain the s-h-i-f-t lever"
"one must not frighten them, and overwhelm their feeble minds"
me 2:07 pm
well, i think guy is contemplating an autotragic tl
but yeah :p
gf 2:08 pm
"or place their delicate buttocks in any but the most softly suspended of cars"
then how is a tl complicated
"honey i am scared as [redacted]- what are these extra letters here 'sh-awd'"?
"will this car eat me?"
seriously how dumb do these cavedouches think females are?
Do they not know that women buy muscle cars like all the time?
Oh yeah and what car do women love?
The [redacted] mini
me 2:14 pm
now you're on the internet, hah!
lol!
#64
Drifting
I shopped these 2 as well until my Wife saw the Avalon and then it was on to the Acura dealer. I like the Avalon, but @ 48 I am too young for the Avalon and the ES350 which I also drove.
#65
My wife is in no way "scared" of the TL, to be clear; she just isn't into auto enthusiasm, I'm sure plenty of people of both sexes (not here, probably) will understand that.
Funny that your chat takes that slant on it, but it's not the issue at all. More like mature woman sees car as transportation vs. little boy who sees it as Tonka Truck Fantasy. :P
Just to set the record straight for you kids.
Funny that your chat takes that slant on it, but it's not the issue at all. More like mature woman sees car as transportation vs. little boy who sees it as Tonka Truck Fantasy. :P
Just to set the record straight for you kids.
#66
Moderator
My wife is in no way "scared" of the TL, to be clear; she just isn't into auto enthusiasm, I'm sure plenty of people of both sexes (not here, probably) will understand that.
Funny that your chat takes that slant on it, but it's not the issue at all. More like mature woman sees car as transportation vs. little boy who sees it as Tonka Truck Fantasy. :P
Just to set the record straight for you kids.
Funny that your chat takes that slant on it, but it's not the issue at all. More like mature woman sees car as transportation vs. little boy who sees it as Tonka Truck Fantasy. :P
Just to set the record straight for you kids.
your wife will probably only see it as a means of transporatation, which she will factor in which is easy to drive and which is more comfortable to drive..
tl-shawd = bumpy.
avalon = smooth sailing ride.
simple as that.
Last edited by potmilkz; 04-10-2012 at 05:34 PM.
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FanaticFan (04-10-2012)
#67
the chat was in reaction to [Redacted]'s comment about simple cars appealing to women, :p, not reflecting on you or your wife at all FanFan.
I was just being silly anyway, it's all in good fun
I was just being silly anyway, it's all in good fun
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FanaticFan (04-10-2012)
#68
In our case my wife is always the voice of reason, me the voice of passionate insanity, so we end up balancing out pretty well.
#70
I'd say something about maybe we should switch spouses, but I'm sure there are other factors requiring research that might not make that such a hot idea... (in jest).
#71
#72
The Sicilian
FanaticFan, you can't go wrong with either one. Like mentioned before the TL is harder/sportier ride and the Avalon is a cushier ride. So it's really up to you and your wife.
My brother-in-law had a 2000 Avalon and when he sold it to his mechanic it had 215,000 miles and still going strong.
My brother-in-law had a 2000 Avalon and when he sold it to his mechanic it had 215,000 miles and still going strong.
#73
3G TL/2G MDX Owner
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originally posted by the gf
gf: 2:06 pm
"women want simple cars" what an [redacted]
dear [redacted], kiss my [redacted]
bunch of [redacted]
me: 2:06 pm
i'm so tempted to copy/paste that verbatim into a response :p
like, you have no idea! Hahaha
gf 2:07 pm
"the female animal is frightened of complex instrument arrays
..especially those that contain the s-h-i-f-t lever"
"one must not frighten them, and overwhelm their feeble minds"
me 2:07 pm
well, i think guy is contemplating an autotragic tl
but yeah :p
gf 2:08 pm
"or place their delicate buttocks in any but the most softly suspended of cars"
then how is a tl complicated
"honey i am scared as [redacted]- what are these extra letters here 'sh-awd'"?
"will this car eat me?"
seriously how dumb do these cavedouches think females are?
Do they not know that women buy muscle cars like all the time?
Oh yeah and what car do women love?
The [redacted] mini
me 2:14 pm
now you're on the internet, hah!
now THAT convo was funny.
if this is a car to go on trips, cruise, and also for your wife to drive..
i dont see a reason why you would purchase a TL over a avalon.
The avalon has nice ride, roomy, appeals to women,( due to the fact that it is simple go and stop car), simple to use and basically all around OK car.. as the TL is bumpy, very high tech, not comfortable, not roomy, and a sports car.
at the end, shes probably not going to appreciate how "good" the TL is as described to her by you..
women look for comfort and simplicity....
i dont see a reason why you would purchase a TL over a avalon.
The avalon has nice ride, roomy, appeals to women,( due to the fact that it is simple go and stop car), simple to use and basically all around OK car.. as the TL is bumpy, very high tech, not comfortable, not roomy, and a sports car.
at the end, shes probably not going to appreciate how "good" the TL is as described to her by you..
women look for comfort and simplicity....
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FanaticFan (04-20-2012)
#74
Moderator
but on the serious note.... i cannot see any "older" women that are married and have kids to be driving a TL Sh-AWD.
#75
Instructor
Nope, it has both humps. The center seat has about a 3-4 inch hump in the FWD model. I get complaints about it all the time, it blows. As far as I know there aren't any interior differences between the FWD and SH-AWD models. The trunk is just a bit smaller in the AWD model.
#76
3G TL/2G MDX Owner
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@ pot
that is true...but it does surprise me sometimes. there is an older lady say 40's where i work, and she drives MT audi S4 with the two kid seats in the back. that thing sounds mean when she starts it.
now a girl that mods her car...that's a rare thing. i get a few odd looks when i come hopping out of my TL at the dealer with the bottle of detail spray! lol.
that is true...but it does surprise me sometimes. there is an older lady say 40's where i work, and she drives MT audi S4 with the two kid seats in the back. that thing sounds mean when she starts it.
now a girl that mods her car...that's a rare thing. i get a few odd looks when i come hopping out of my TL at the dealer with the bottle of detail spray! lol.
#78
Moderator
@ pot
that is true...but it does surprise me sometimes. there is an older lady say 40's where i work, and she drives MT audi S4 with the two kid seats in the back. that thing sounds mean when she starts it.
now a girl that mods her car...that's a rare thing. i get a few odd looks when i come hopping out of my TL at the dealer with the bottle of detail spray! lol.
that is true...but it does surprise me sometimes. there is an older lady say 40's where i work, and she drives MT audi S4 with the two kid seats in the back. that thing sounds mean when she starts it.
now a girl that mods her car...that's a rare thing. i get a few odd looks when i come hopping out of my TL at the dealer with the bottle of detail spray! lol.
you can detail my car any dayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.......... ;P
#79
3G TL/2G MDX Owner
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okie dokie....when you bringing your baby over?
OP-i'd get the TL for you and then get a used camry (her utility vehicle) for the wifey. or how about a used avalon? the prelude can continue to be your zoom zoom toy.
OP-i'd get the TL for you and then get a used camry (her utility vehicle) for the wifey. or how about a used avalon? the prelude can continue to be your zoom zoom toy.
#80
it's a car-drive it
no mods but a girl that takes care and loves to drive vehicles with manual transmission. Owned a 98 eagle talon tsi-awd with mt. Love driving thru the Sharp curves on 80 in the Delaware water gap in nj to pa.