Little Gator

The orginal 2010 press release on the TL with a six speed manual tranny said Acura only planned to make a small % of their total production with the stick. So now over 1 1/2 later, how are those numbers working out? Is Acura making this model in the numbers they originally expected? Are sales people having any trouble selling them? I don't see many in the list of inventory on dealership sites.

crxb

this is a tweet on march 2nd

"Acura_Insider Acura Insider
@
@asten77 color offerings will b made public March 9. Since MT sales % is pretty low (~5%) we have to offer limited colors unfortunately"

it was in response to this person's tweet:

"@Acura_insider So, will 2012 6MT TL have more color choice? REALLY want one, but only *4* colors on the '11 is a little disappointing."

6SpdTerror

The dealer is currently trying to locate my 2011 6mt. As with my 2005 and current 2008 type-s........finding 6mtss in NYC is always a headache!! I refuse to drive an auto tho so i might actually stray from WDP this time and get whatever color is available

jspagna1

Unfortunately it's all based on demand. And with the TL's low sales volume I'm not surprised. Although when the time comes for resale, it will make these cars that much more desirable.

JM2010 SH-AWD

The owner of my dealer, which sells a lot of Acuras, told me they've only sold a handful of 6MTs (which is a shame, he said, because it's the best driving car Acura has made in some time).

I sure hope Acura does not give up on the 6MT in this car. I believe the restricted color choices are a damper on 6MT sales, but maybe low take rates are just a function of drivers' seeming need to shave, eat, apply make up and text while driving. No hands left to shift.

(BTW, when I was looking at and test-driving cars, it was impossible to find a 6MT G37 sedan or 5 series BMW in my area).

ESHBG

I wouldn't really count on that, though, as the demand for MT cars over time will probably continue downward.

I agree, and think that it may be a self-fulfilling prophecy because Acura bottle necks you into certain choices if you want an MT, and if you don't like those choices (and I really don't, to be honest), you'll opt for another brand or just go with the AT. If I am spending that kind of money, I want to get EXACTLY what I want, I don't want to settle and I want to be happy everyday when I get into the car.

The 6-speed AT will push the MT even further down the rung I think. And on a related MT point, in the TSX forum I learned that Acura isn't even offering the MT in certain TSX models in Canada anymore for '11. That says a lot to me...

Six Shifter

Historically, the number of MT's in upper echelon Acura's has always been small. Going back to the original Legend Coupe, IIRC the percentage of MTs in the '90 model year was no more than 10%. It wasn't until the final production year of the '03 CL that a manual was even offered as a no-cost option, but again the percentage of MTs was in the single digits. It's a perception by foreigh auto makers that Americans prefer AT's, and the sales (at least as far as Acura models goes) don't do anything to do to dispell it. Probabaly why it's always easier to acquire a MT early in the model year than later on.

6SpdTerror

Dude u have my car!!!! lol. Mayan Bronze is my first choice then white then black. I completely hate silver but i saw Blacura's car and it looks very nice in person. Lets hope they find me my MBM tho!

CalgaryAWDTL

Quite the opposite, in fact. My local dealer has been unable to move their used manual 2010 TL with very low mileage but have sold all their used 4G TLs with auto. Also, resale value black books deduct for not having the auto tranny in this car, at least in Canada.

CalgaryAWDTL

or the TL. I couldn't build a manual '11 TL. It doesn't seem to exist up here.

6SpdTerror

Wow that sucks......the day they stop building a manual is te day i move to another brand. Probably BMW. Just because the masses drive slush boxes doesnt mean you should alienate your enthusiast buyers.

Six Shifter

only reason this is my 3rd Acura is because of the MT. Really don't like 4 doors, but wanted AWD + MT, and the BMW's didn't offer enough overall range in either of their 3 series. Coupled with the removal of the 3.2 in the A5 with the stick, it was either go this route or invest another 5-6k in my CL at the next service, which I knew I'd never get back.

winstrolvtec

This might be one of those catch 22's. For dealers and wholesalers, they always deduct because you can't sell a manual to just anyone, the market for it is too small. On the other hand, the right buyer will usually be willing to pay top dollar to get a rare manual transmission build because of it's limited availability.

For those reasons, it is my understanding that at the auction, and with wholesalers, a 6MT usually suffers and it's reflected in the books and reports, so owners stand to lose even more for the additional possibility that the car doesn't sell on the lot, doesn't sell well or that it's not a good lot car in the first place over an auto, and therefore that's also reflected in the private or 3rd party values of those books or reports as well.

They tell you all this when it's time to trade in but then when it's on the lot for the used buyer (even when new), it commands more dollar and is advertised as extremely rare and limited and because of that they can't do too much on the price. The list price may be lower but the selling or market price has further potential to be higher.

The assertion is true because of what the books suggest as trade in and list prices but that doesn't make it true in all situations such as actual market value, your leverage in negotiating trade in with the dealer, and in private sales. If my sources of info are correct, my TLS 6MT trade sold almost immediately and for no less money than a comparable automatic, it may have even been more.

I think it is expected that a car like a 6MT TL could command some type of premium or at least top dollar in the private sector. So while the list (suggested) price is often lower, the going rates based on the list price usually experience less volatility, keeping the value at a higher percentage of list price or even at list price because of the reduced amount of product and the vehicle's limited nature. Where the autos, being much more available, are selling at prices all over the place, including rock bottom at times, regardless of book values, which effectively drags the market value down, potentially making the auto's actual resale worse but it's all rather arbitrary as there are even matters of individual markets, regions and demographics.

What I have found to be a bit more predictable and not as affected by the market's anti manual tendencies, are dedicated sports cars that only come in manual gearboxes and are not available with auto, like the S2000 type, or the sport trims of cars that are exclusively manual, like the Si's or Legacy GT's.

CalgaryAWDTL

^^ good post but....

My local dealer has their unsold used '10 manual TL AWD priced the same as their sold used TLs with auto. They did not command a premium for it despite the car being pristine with low miles. Hopefully someone will enjoy it soon but it seems with this model so far what you describe above does not hold true for some reason.

I'm a diehard car enthusiast myself having owned numerous M3s and P cars-all with manual, of coarse!-but when it came to purchasing my '10 AWD TL I never even considered the stick version because I saw this car first and foremost as a luxury AWD sedan which suited my needs. I think most people view this car this way and Acura knows that.

winstrolvtec

^That does seem to be the issue in this case as there are not many people looking for a relatively large mid sized luxury sedan with a stick but to go along with that, it's still only a used 2010 while there probably are new 2010's available for someone looking for this.

It has not been a few years time where many more used shoppers for this car would have emerged, they would likely be considering a new one as well with the deals and new vs used interest rates, at this time. I don't believe it has been out for a long enough time so it might not be a prime example of what the 6MT resale will look like.

Ant$

i remember when i bought my 2010 last march, there were only 2 black 6spd tls and only about 6-7 total in the philly area and surrounding burbs

Little Gator

I just checked the inventory of all 4 dealerships in the Fort Worth - Dallas area on their websites and of their 144 new 2011 TLs, not one has a manual in it.

jpmunoz

i love wdp, but could not drive a car with white interior. I hate how the tl has matching colors for mt. i really wanted wdp with the red interior. i really like the red leather. or black with same interior.

unlemming

If I read the chart right, you got your wish..all the '12 manuals will have black interiors. In my case, that sucks. I want MBM/Umber and cooled seats, but it looks like I can't have it.

Jim 2004

There are not too many 6MT four-door sedans sold in the US. The sales are just not there no matter how many units are available, so it makes sense that Acura will not commit to a full-scale rollout of the 6MT with the same exteriors and interoirs as the auto, especially since the car is made in Ohio and is aimed mainly at North American markets. The TL 6MT and the Accord EX 6MT are niche cars that Honda could have easily decided not to build.

On the other hand, the TSX wagon is sold in Europe and Japan as the Honda Accord Tourer and a 6MT is available there in a 2.4-liter four, but not here. Not sure why.

jasonwdp10

It's because people in the US generally do not buy manual cars. It's completely different story in asia/europe though.

steetbach

Having traded in a 2004 6 speed manual and a 2007 type-s manual, I can tell you I did not get more for my trade-in. Matter of fact one Acura dealership tried to give me less because they thought it would take longer to find a buyer. Yeah,I know that is just dealership talk and I could have gotten more if I sold the cars myself but to be honest, I'm at the point in my life that I don't want to bother with the process. I guess my point is it depends on how much effort you are willing to put in the sale of your manual TL. The fact that 6-speeds have always been in limited production doesn't mean crap at the dealership come trade in time!

MyT6MT

I love my 2010 6MT! Where else for the money can you get a torque vectoring AWD 6MT mid-luxury four door sedan?

It's going to be very hard for a manufacturer to get me out of this beast! There is only one thing I don't like about it... it shifts like shit! I know I'm not the only one that thinks this! I just have to muscle it into gear. But it is still the best drive I have ever owned!

winstrolvtec

Seriously? That's the last thing I would ever think about my TL. It shifts smooth and effortlessly, although not as light as the 3G models, it's smoother than the TLS I had.

There was some notchiness at first but it was part of the break in, a bit of mileage and it all went away.

Have you had it checked out? I know they all can't be and feel exactly the same, especially with the margin for error on a manual, but maybe it is some bad fluid or something.

Stew4HD

I checked the Houston area for an MT and found none.

lji

One of the reasons why the '11 TL 6MT is so hard to find is because the '11s are limited production as the '12s are coming out so soon. When I was searching for a manual in the Houston area, I found that Sterling McCall had three '10 6MT's, two of which they sold by November of last year.

For those looking for a 6MT near the Houston/Dallas/Austin area, it seems David McDavid in Austin's got a 2010 6MT with HPT in CBP available.

NwTSXmt

"it shifts like shit! I know I'm not the only one that thinks this! I just have to muscle it into gear".

This has got to be a joke

Pete2010

Wow really? My buddy who has an S2K (with arguably the best MT ever made), has said that mine shifts almost as good as the S2K. There was some notchyness in the first 500 miles or so, but that's all gone away, and it's smooth like butter.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Wow. You should have the dealer check out your transmission if you think it shifts that poorly.

The one thing that seems to be unanimous among owners and reviewers is that the 6MT in the 4G TLs is among the slickest-shifting MTs available today

Ant$

my only problem is that sometimes it doesn't shift into 3rd gear (from 2nd) fully and I grind the gears.

even when i'm not making quick shifts and just taking a sunday drive to the Home Depot, i push it to 3rd and it occasionally doesn't lock in and comes back to neutral when I release the stick (thinking it's in 3rd)

Ant$

OMG...all my non-american co-workers (african, asian indian, asian, carribean) all have manual cars while the americans all say they have no idea how to drive stick.

i think i'm the only american at my job who does...

docboy

I have this same problem too, shifter "pops" out of 3rd sporadically when shifting from 2nd-3rd; same problem when shifting into Reverse as well, sporadically happens, and I have to reshift to neutral then to Reverse again.

Took it to the dealership a few times, they have never been able to duplicate the problem, saying they have no record of such problems in their database (which I know is untrue b/c an AZ member had their transmission replaced b/c of gears popping out).

Any ideas on what to do? What are the long term ramifications, if any, of said problem?

Jim 2004

I get that. My point is, why wouldn't Honda send over a 6MT TSX Wagon, since it already exports the 6MT sedan to us?

winstrolvtec

I had the pop out sometimes shifting from 2nd to 3rd in my 3G TLS, mostly when cold. It was an almost common issue for the 3G that most fixed with GM's Synchromesh "friction modified" transmission fluid.

It was due to the gear not actually being fully engaged only the shifter in position so it would kick back out. I never did the change as it was very minute and random in my case, instead I found a way around it.

I would hold the shift for a little extra or apply a little more force into 3rd after the shift until I felt it give a little bit more and sometimes when doing that you could hear the synchro, then I knew it was in. If it didn't give that little extra then I also knew it didn't need it that time and it was also fully engaged, you develop a feel for it.

There was a technical service bulletin for 08 TLS on the issue and Acura's fix was to replace the gearset but most just did the fluid change. There was concern over the warranty because I believe it's not an authorized fluid. Some just changed it anyway on their own, others got consent from the dealer with no potential impact of warranty.

I don't know if there is an official TSB for the 2010 so I would check with the dealer, also tell them about the 08 TLS TSB, say that it is the same issue and it would be better for everyone to just allow the fluid change. I have never heard a single bad thing about using or changing to this fluid as it has solved nearly all of Honda's and Acura's manual tranny issues but the long term affects are probably still unknown. If need be explain that to them.

Here's one of the discussions from the issue on the TLS a few years back with a lot of positive feedback.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...light=3rd+gear

ezshift5

Here's one more testimony for GMSFM: after 28,000 miles, the 3rd gear hesitation is gone. Not one glitch.

I learned about the GM fluid here on Acurazine (lots of positives).

Thanks,

TechnoCat

Very peppy engine and great handling. But the 6MT (and I did have one) isn't usually sold in large sedans, and the TL is quite a bit larger than the BMW 3-series or Audi A/S4 series.

Although both the BWM and Audi sedans above are easily available with 6MT.

I suspect that if the car looked a lot less large, the 6MT would sell better. But then again, if it looked less like a prop from a 1980s sci-fi TV show, it would also have sold better.

racegypsy

My shifting is not great either. (2010 6 MT Sh-awd) Haven't taken the car in for first service yet and hope they can look at the linkage. Especially from 1st to 2nd, suspect the gearbox wants to push it into neutral a little too much when crossing over since it seems to also do it from 5th to 6th. I'm convinced it's not the gears but the linkage.

Monte TLS,MAX

Exactly, they just dont sell well in this market and 9 times out of 10 you have to offer a deep discount to move the 1 or 2 that you have. Thats why Nissan dropped the 6spd with the Max 4 years ago, it simply was hard to move the very few units that they had. Since about 2000 demand for manuals in this segment has been on the decline.

gibjer

Eh, the way I have it figured, if I'm spending that much on a car, I'm getting exactly what I want.

Will worry about negotiating trade in values with the dealer when I get rid of it in a few years.

draph

Is this your first MT? If not, what was your prior car? I've been driving manuals as daily drivers since 1991: 91 Accord, 95 Prelude VTEC, '01 Maxima, '07 335, '10 TL. I too have occasional issues with gear grind on rapid 1-2 upshifts. Dealer, of course, found no issue. I've also got a '70 Corvette. I can speed shift the 'vette with no grinding, chirping the tires in all three up shifts...(even easier now since I replaced the 41 year old stock linkage with a new Hurst kit). However, with that in mind, I'm thinking, *possibly*, the "short throw" of the TL has me trying to pull the lever into 2nd a few milliseconds before I have the clutch pedal far enough to the floor. I rarely have a problem with slow shifting the TL - only from 5 to 6 when I'm not paying attention and let the centering spring try to pull it toward 4th. I've also kind of been blaming it on my prior BMW experience - it seemed the relationships between throttle position, clutch pedal, and shifter are off compared to all the other cars I had driven before - got into a pretty good habit with it, though, after 3 years - which translates into an incompatible habit with the TL. Makes me wonder if that's intentional by BMW to make all other MT cars feel "wrong" once you've driven a BMW for 3 years...