JM2010 SH-AWD

Wow, if my TL had those inferior traits you mention, I'd be unhappy too. I'm hoping, for your sake, you are only speaking hypothetically.

saturno_v

He forgot to mention that past 100 mph the A6 sprout wings and takes off while the TL shakes uncontrollably until falling apart....

winstrolvtec

While I agree that those qualities do contribute to "better" they do not establish that all by itself. Now if that is a personal preference and is a main priority in a given comparison, then I can see why one might consider a car to be better on the basis of their opinion, and there is nothing wrong with that but if you want to generalize or objectify the term better and applied to the vehicle as a whole, having little to do with personal involvements, you need to look past only one aspect of the vehicle, as there are many.

"Better" quality does not automatically mean better car, it means better quality. It no more implies a superior vehicle overall any more than performance or reliability does, for example. If you want better that isn't so much a matter of opinion, and I'm not saying it's perfect or easy to do but I would imagine you need to first fairly and evenly align and then look at all of the non subjective vehicle aspects and how they compare, the one that wins the most categories and not necessarily how they apply to individual preferences or opinions, would be the winner.

I'm not claiming the TL is necessarily better than anything, including the A6 which may very well still be a better car through and through, all I know is that it's one of the best vehicles for me personally but I would rarely, if ever go around claiming it is better than anything else, especially in a generalized or objective sense because even though I might be able to, car comparing is too personalized, few people are truly fair and unbiased. However, I might say it is better for me as a choice or make the case it is better for the money or better at this or that in terms of objective based characteristics but that's usually about it.

SebringSilver

The A6 doesn't need to do that to be recognized as being superior to the TL. What are you...12? If you actually read my posts at all, what brought me onto this thread was the assertions by certain individuals, yourself included, that the OP had made a mistake in upgrading to the A6, and in doing so, you seemed to be alluding to the fact that the TL is the superior car. I'm only here to remind you it is not.

And to answer your earlier question about why I bought a TL and not the A6, well, I wasn't looking to buy an A6. I wanted to try out the new TL, and they gave me $7,000 off the sticker price because I'm a good customer and I know that it's a car that won't have nearby pedestrians and other drivers taking pictures of it when I'm driving it because that gets old after a while. I do not for one minute think that my TL is better than an A6, because I've had a TL before, I've also had an A6 before, so I have a good idea as to what these cars are about. When I decide I'd like to try another A6 out, I will get it at that time. Not sure why you're so insistent that I give you an answer that you think will prove you right.

Just one last reminder, it's YOU who's putting down the A6. It's not a case of ME putting down the TL.

SebringSilver

Winstro> I've seen you here on Acurazine for years. Even though I don't post very often, neither one of us are new to the Acura experience. I actually like a lot of your posts and so I don't want to get into any type of friction over something that's relatively trivial. All I will say is it's great that some people bother to try to make an objective argument to state their case, but I occasionally take exception to those postings that make Acura/Honda enthusiasts look like defensive, narrow-minded, ignorants. Thankfully, you are not one of them.

saturno_v

Evidently you did not read my messages...I congratulated the OP on his purchase....go back and read...your comment on some of the shortcomings of the TL (I agree on the seat foldig issue, a serious REAL shortcoming) are bordering, in my opinion, on bizarre.

I did never put down the A6....again, if you did read through the thread you will see that I call it mechanically superb....I just do not like the boring and bland style and the interior design but that takes nothing away from the car...to each its own.

Simply I do not think tha the car is worth the significant extra coin compared to the TL...simple as that.


On this entire site it is the pastime of choice putting down the TL.....I never saw TL owners so far putting down other cars...quite the opposite....

The bizarre statements get even more bizarre...who is 12 here...do you really believe people would snap a picture of an A6?? Or pay attention to an A6 or any other similar cars?? ..I don't believe what I read...get a grip...you claim to live in Vancouver where exotics (yourself claim to own an R8) on the road are extremely common..nobody gives a rat ass about a midsize sedan......


Sorry but in your opinion the TL is a clearly inferior car to an A6 and clearly you like Audis so "I was not looking to buy an A6" won't cut it...especially if you had the means to get one....


The statement about people snapping pictures of an A6 on the road really take the cake....priceless...keep going with the good humor

hmmm.......ok.......

SebringSilver

You seem to specialize in putting words in other people's mouths. Nowhere did I say people snap pictures of an A6. The shortcomings I cited regarding the TL are the absence of folding rear seats, a trunk floor that isn't flat, and a trunk opening that could have been designed better to allow for easier loading and unloading. I don't see what's so bizarre about those remarks. I still don't really get your insistence that I go and buy an A6 simply because it's a better car than the TL. There are countless cars that are better; do I have to buy them all?

Anyway, nice attempt at deflecting this away from yourself.

saturno_v

Read your own statement:

And to answer your earlier question about why I bought a TL and not the A6, well, I wasn't looking to buy an A6. I wanted to try out the new TL, and they gave me $7,000 off the sticker price because I'm a good customer and I know that it's a car that won't have nearby pedestrians and other drivers taking pictures of it when I'm driving it because that gets old after a while.

That statement was in reply (as stated yourself) at my question why you did not buy an A6...to me it sounds that you were implying that buying an A6 may attract pedestrian or other drivers snapping a picture of you.....which I think it's ridiculous.

About the rear folding seats and smallish not very practical trunk issue, I agree 100% with you on that

Then you made this statement:

Better is when you drive your car at high speeds over an expansion joint and you have a satisfying thunk rather than a rattly impact like the car is going to fall apart. Better is when you close the trunk on a car and it sounds like it really was built like a bank vault and not made of tinfoil. Better is when you're going 80 mph (or more) with strong cross winds and the car is absolutely rock steady with a minimum of wind and road noise. Better is when the car can be built so that the trunk is perfectly flat and the dubious structural rigidity doesn't preclude the ability to have folding rear seats.

So I don't know if with these highlighted shortcomings you were referring specifically to the TL or a generic other car....because definitely other TL owners have not experienced such lousy ride or any aerodynamic unstability.....a car that in my opinion behaves the way you describe would be a huge disappointment and I would get rid of it....you seemed to describe more of a Chevy Impala than a TL......for the former I totally agree with you (I had the misfortune to rent one more than once)

I remind you that the TL is based on the Accord platform which has rear folding seats so I do not think the absence of it is to improve any "dubious structural rigidity" shortcomings (The Accord has the best chassis in its segment hands down).....it does further improve the structural rigidity obviously (it would in any car if you add a structural element behind the seat)

I did not have to deflect anything away from myself...the A6 is an absolutely great car and I congratulated the owner......you are the one that jumped in and accused anyone not recognizing the clear superiority of an A6 as being in "denial" or "never rode in one"....I remind you that there were aspect of the TL that the OP clearly stated it missed (the seats and the stereo) and he thinks tha the TL has a sportier character.

Booya4139

calling the 2.0T A4 a better car than the TL is a bit laughable IMO... But Audi's are nice cars... when they are running...

Haven't been in a new A6 SC, sounds like the performance is awesome.

I drove a company A8 early 2000's model that fell apart at the seams, that was my most direct and negative experience w/audi...
Friends have the vert A4's, A5's etc...

I'm not one to believe a wood inlay makes a car better, nor the requirement of having the minimum possible number of buttons... but can appreciate a nice interior regardless. (which audis have)

Enjoy the car.

Booya4139

Vague comments about prestige and phantom 'quality' are awesome... Its like listening to birthers...

saturno_v

Infact.....you are totally right, I could not agree more...:-)

g37guy01

Agreed, I love the discussion of why my car is better than your car....always entertaining.

SebringSilver

Not sure why you keep making assumptions. It's like we're not even discussing the same thing.

saturno_v

It sounds to me that you are retracting a little bit what you said in previous messages...however no biggie.....let's be friends!!

Acura_Dude

All cars mentioned are nice cars. Personally IDK if its worth the risk to actually own a german car. Some people crave reliability while others settled for reliable enough. IDK if i'd like making trips to the dealer or building a relationship with the service advisor.

Some of the features that come standard on acuras are and option thats bundled in pkgs. Don't get me wrong Audi's are VERY nice cars and my ideal one would be an A4 6mt prestige w/ S-line and sport pkg. That's just nothing but a dream. But I do know there's a chance I may end up at the dealer more than I'd like too EVEN if i could afford a car like that, and to me for a car that price I'd expect more in the reliability dept. I know there's more to break on the car, but come on if you're going to overcharge for a car at least make it reliable. Under $40K and even $30k you'll find tons of reliable cars. Even in the Sub $20K range, so why can't the germans do the same? Definitely not kicking down any brand (i like many), I just find it ironic how much people will pay for a vehicle and constantly have to take it to the shop and then rush to get rid of it after the warranty expires. I guess if people would pay for a badge and didn't care about a product of mine I guess I wouldn't have to strive hard for their business, where as cars half that price cram plenty of options, flexibility, and reliability just as selling points. I.e. Honda/Acura.

g37guy01

@acura_dude:

BMW is having a banner year and Audi sales are way up. Whatever your sentiment about the german reliability or cost or business model, both companies are doing very well.

Not all consumers feel as you do.

Edward'TLS

Don't forget MB too.

Booya4139

Don't forget Ford and Chrysler too. Oops.

Edward'TLS

..... and also the Hyundai/Kia group.

Acura_Dude

That is true. Speaking of sales across the board, how's infiniti's? BTW where'd OP go? He never came back. I really like his A6.

BEAR-AvHistory

Through April TL 11,411 - G 18,278

SebringSilver

Not retracting at all. None of the things that you ascribed to me were actually what I said. So there's no point in arguing with people who continually put words in other people's mouths.

saturno_v

Whatever...your posts are there for all to see what you did say....

Acura_Dude

That's great! I wonder how the 5G TL will look. I bet it'll be a hit like the 3G was. Styling wise the 4G was a step back, but it doesn't look that bad to me. Ive seem some pretty nice modded ones on here.

g37guy01

By the way according to goodcarbadcar.net. The G is the second best seller after the RX in the Japanese luxury segment.

Edward'TLS

SebringSilver, the moment you wrote :

you're asking for trouble, whether it's your intention or not.

First of all, the A6 is one class above any TL, and cost $10+K more than any TL. The TL is in the same class as the A4, 3-series, G, IS, and C-class. So it's virtually meaningless to say "the new A6 is quite a lot better than any TL."

It's like saying "the new A6 is quite a lot better than any A4", or "the new 5-series is quite a lot better than any 3-series", or "the new Infiniti-M is quite a lot better than any Infiniti-G", or "the new GS is quite a lot better than any IS", or even "the new E-class is quite a lot better than any C-class". MEANINGLESS !

Secondly, when you said that the A4 was also better than the TL, but had nothing to justify your belief; it seemed that you were really into starting a fight. But if you had explained your belief better, it wouldn't have ended up like this now.

For the record, I still own both the Audi C6 A6 and the Acura 4G TL; and yes, I have seen and test-driven the new A6 during one of my frequent (when compared to the Acura's) repair trips to the Audi dealership.

winstrolvtec

Actually it's 14,077 for the G sedan through April and Infiniti is at 33,349 as a brand in the US, with Acura at 42,980. For good measure the A4 sold 11,794 and Audi is at 40,991.

While a lot gets made over Acura's "slide" of recent years, they are still in good shape. It should be remembered that the two most recent model intros were the TSX wagon and ZDX, not exactly big time markets for those two types of vehicles and the ILX and new RDX are barely out, including these two brand new additions, they will have an entirely new line across the board in roughly two years time, likely less. Not predicting anything but I think it would be interesting to see how things are going at that time.

I know a lot gets made of the TL and it's sales decline but to put things into perspective, even though the numbers suggest a 50% decline from the peak of the 3G years, many top models in that segment range despite intro'ing new gen models are still down over 30% compared to their last record setting year before the economic crisis. Surprisingly enough, one of them is the 3 series.

A lot gets made of the styling but it's too overblown if you ask me. I would guess that the styling controversy probably only accounts for a 10%-15% decline, which isn't nothing but it's a lot better than the suggestions that it might be 50%. I could be wrong but I take that as a reflection of how the styling is interpreted which isn't particularly good but it's not terrible either.

Hapa DC5

^ Sounds like Infiniti's 6+ year old sedan is holding its own and there is no comparable Acura coupe.....

Anyway, this thread has been muddied up quite a bit. Congrats to the OP, the A6 is a great choice plain and simple.

BEAR-AvHistory

+1 They never liked to include the coupe/convert in the count so the G gets penalized for having a broader product line in the G series then the TL does for giving people a choice among the three G cars.

This is an old thing going back to when PsychDoc started the monthly sales listings when the 4G first came out & things did not go as well as was expected. One bit of good news for the home team, through April the TL has the 5 series beat by 36 cars. Good tight race this year.

Then there is the 3 series that adds a wagon to the mix limping along on 33,701 cars sold through April about equal to the total 2011 TL sales.

Agree on the Audi A6- very nice car & its time to get back on track.

silverTL6

iTrader: (2)

Having an MB C300 in the garage, I get where people are coming from when they say German brands are "better" due to that bank vault feel, stability at high speeds, and durability. It really is noticeable when closing the doors/trunk, going over bumps, and just tapping on body panels in general.

But there's a lot more to cars than that, and where the TL may fall short in some of these areas, it more than makes up for them in features, design, ergonomics, and just plain driving feel. Hence everyday I look forward to driving my TL 6MT but not the C300

So different strokes for different folks...let's just enjoy every car for their own merits and leave the Acura bashing to those who've never owned one

BEAR-AvHistory

Must be a lot of coupes & converts out there to cover the spread.

2008
TL 46,776
G 64,181

2009
TL 33,620
G 47,174

2010
TL 34,049
G 58,143

2011
TL 31,237
G 58,246

2012 YTD April
TL 11,414
G 18,278

winstrolvtec

I agree, it's a great car for a great deal and it deserves the success it gets, I hope you didn't take that to mean I was being negative about it or trying to take away and in place give, although I don't know how you would gather that from what I actually posted. The numbers are what they are, take them to mean whatever you want, I merely stated another appropriate statistic to the topic.

Surely, you can see that a sedan comparison is a bit more in line. Nothing more, nothing less. Acura does not have a comparable coupe/convert, Acura's loss, Infiniti's gain but it's just about being fair and balanced or including combatible info when comparing, that shouldn't be an issue.

Maybe not a great example, but it's not much different to then compare the TSX + TL sales to the way some of these variants are grouped, because at the same time, most don't have 3 sedans for 2 segments where Acura doesn't have a coupe/convert. Likewise, if we are going to go about it that way, we should also be adding the A5 with the A4, as it is the coupe version, it just so happens to have a slightly different label.

Now I'm not sure what you are getting at, you seem to take these things to extreme ends without a defined underlying point or theme. Much of what I stated above applies here too. The G is not actually penalized though, the sedan still outsells the TL and they have the coupe and convert models on top of that. If anything your comparison is penalizing the TL for not having the coupe and convertible, think about it. You really need to come to terms with your perspectives on the TL, where they stem from and how they come across.

Why does being fair and balanced have to be such an issue? If you are going to compare 3 trims to 1, why even bother? Might as well compare the total brands' sales. And no, I do not take issue with what the figures are or how they compare, only how they are represented, as I made no point about how the numbers fair one way or another, only made a distinction among them. While you seem to take them to imply something or validate your own opinions and I'm curious as to why. Most TL owners don't even care that much one way or another.