I've read elsewhere on this board that these cars are in evry short supply and aren't even slated to be built in the next few months. Does anyone have any further information on this? How could Honda/Acura allow a situation like this to develop? I can't imagine that it's significantly harder to manufacture one vs. the other so why does this state of affairs exist and is Honda/Acura being made aware of it?

If this continues and those cars are going to be priced at or close to MSRP, many buyers will go elsewhere, not maybe the best marketing move I've ever heard of for a car company in troubled times.

 

It's the economy. Almost every car company now is cutting production, laying off workers, and even delaying the introduction of new models (i.e. NSX, V8 RL).

 

It also protects the resell value on the 4th Gens for existing customers.

 

Profit is more important than Volume to any company other then GM. So really profit is more important than volume to any successful company. No car company has interest in selling below MSRP. They only do it because it takes a long time and costs more to slow down production to meet actual selling rates. So short term the answer is to sell below MSRP. Now that it is clear that the selling rates are going to stay down the answer is to cut production which is what they have done.

 

Are you actually suggesting that car companies believe they can sell most of their cars at MSRP???

That's preposterous! There are only a handful of cars that sell at MSRP (think: Nissan GT-R). Selling at least 10-15% below MSRP is the rule in auto sales, not the exception.

 

Hey Doc,

Why are all your postings in large font?

Is it noisy where you're located or are your eyes failing?

 

Not if you don't have 15% margin.

 

Off topic but where have you seen a GT-R for sale that is not marked up [above MSRP]?

 

Agreed...its rather painful reading his posts.

 

Yes. They believe it and want it. MSRP is a suggested price for dealers based on profit levels for dealers as well as positioning within the market. If dealers want to discount the cars and lose their profit that is their choice.

I think it is great move by Acura, because it prevents the factory from having to subsidize the dealers with incentives, which in turn protects Acura's profit.

 

A few dealers I have talkde to have said the model is changing. They all go in trouble when sales were good and voluem was good that they discounted cars more than they should have. Problme is customers are used to getting good deals and I had to really think hard about my AWD since i have been paying invoice for the last 4 TLs I had, only my 04 did I pay anywhere near MSRP becasue they were new and HOT, so same holds true for the AWD, although I got a bigger discount on it than I did on my 04 TL. The dealers need to make more per car since they are selling so many less cars.

As for the SH-AWD they made very few, I suspect they were ramping up slow and not sure how many they would sell or did not project selling many, I heard ealry that they were only forecasting single digit percentages of sales to AWD. Then the economy hits and they scale back and what do you know the AWD is more popular than they thought/projected but they can't run the line just for the AWD and thus with a huge oversupply of FWD TL they are stuck, or rather we are stuck. I am jealous of those that are getting good deals on AWD becsaue a few lucky delars have a few and are willing to move a car just to move a car right now, but here in GA the few dealers that have an AWD are usually getting $1500 ish over invocie, plus they geta $599 DOC fee and add their hold back and they are making $2000-$2500 a car.

 

He makes good points, but I have to switch the volume down on my computer when I read his posts.

 

Wow, they get a 599 doc fee!? We only charge 245. Let's break this down a bit. Lets say you have 1500 over invoice. Most dealers have to pay their service department to do the Pre-Delivery inspection (PDI). In our store this is about $500 and includes the state safety check, and the wheel locks, mud guards and cargo tray. Then there is the "pack' This is the sales department's cut of the profit. In our store this is 750. Whatever is left, is for the sales consultant ... well.... 20% of what's left is for the sales consultant. If this amount is less than 200, the sales guy gets 200 as his 'minimum' commission.

So Keith, if I had sold your car, I would have made 200. You have to admit that its a pretty small commission for a 40K car. IMO this underscores one of the problems at Acura and is probably one of the reasons so many people report such an uneven dealership experience. It is hard to attract and keep professionals if you can only offer them 25,000 a year.

 

Understood, I actually need to go look at what I paid, since it was a lease I worked the residual percentatge then worked the payment down until i was where I wanted to be, I beleive the purchase price ont he lease was like $41K. and since I got it in TN their DOC fee is only $179. In the end I got waht I was happy with, and the lease payment for me is not bad, I put only first month up front, plus a few hundred in the doc and license fees, and got 39 month 20K miles a year for $699. As comparison the same deals for a G37 Sedan with Journey Nav was going to be $675 and a Genesis V6 Tech (27 months) was going to be $690. Considering the car I got (SH-AWD Tech) for a few bucks a month more I am pleased!

 

i would have to say it"s the latter

 

The first dealership I went to told me a line about how these cars must be made of "unobtainium" because they cannot locate me any color choice other than the two black on black ones they had on the lot. While black looks hot, I have owned a black car and the cleaning kills me. I didn't want to make friends with a detailer so I picked Grigio and Umber.

Well, the second dealer I went to spent a couple of hours working out the trade and found me a car. I picked it up the very next day (yesterday). The cars are in shorter supply, few were made as compared to the FWD Base car but they are out there to be found. Good luck.

Chrisp0410

 

The FWD is everywhere, no question. My own dealer's salesman is waiting for his White SH-AWD with Umber interior arrival in March. There are only 2 SH-AWD's at my local dealer. You are so smart about the color, I'm dying over here with Crystal Black Pearl and have become a detailer. It's actually really rewarding to work on her though, but I hate when she gets dirty. Don't let anyone wash your car! Check out our Wash and Wax forum for tips if you need them. Welcome again!

https://acurazine.com/forums/wash-wax-23/

 

Acura is only producing 35% of all TL's with SH-AWD configuration at the moment

I sell Acura's. I have for the last 4 years. Every customer should pay a profit and a decent one. Out of the hundreds of cars I have sold, the ones who pay a profit are the ones that have a better ownership and are generally nicer people. The ones that want to pay invoice or even speak of it, need to go fly a kite. This is a business like any other, and the sales person deserves to be paid for his time and effort.

I would love for Manfuactures to stop disclosing our Invoices. That would make the car purchase experience much more joyful and reduce the stress considerably. So many customers play on the fear that salespeople and managers have. The reason being buyers are liers. I have been lied to more times than I care to remember, and customers think it is ok because I am a salesperson. It is unfortunate however that the public has been trained so well by old-school sales tactics.

It supposed to be a fun experience, and so many people are worried about getting screwed that they ruin it. I do admit that the car business reputation is horrid, and I do my best to show my customers that it doesn't have to be that way. I do sell many of my new cars at or above MSRP. From time to time I will sell them below sticker, and the only reason I would sell a vehicle at invoice would be if it was a demo or an old age unit.

It is not how many you sell that counts, it is how much they weigh.

 

^^ your customers are idiots. There is absolutely no reason to pay MSRP or above MSRP for an Acura.

 

No way, every dealer here in ATL has 1-3 AWD at most and 40-60 FWD cars, if they are making 35% then that all they are making in March, which I doubt. I origanlly heard AWD was only going to be in single digits %.

 

They're shipping all there AWDs north

 

Co-sign effin sign bud. No one needs to pay more than invoice.

 

If you mean up north as in you may be right.

On my way back from Hockey today i stopped by one of our Acura dealers and counted roughly 11 SH-AWD's and around 4-5 FWD's. There seems to be a lot of variety around here and they are not moving either.

If you guys south of the border are looking hard for SH-AWD's you should come up here because im sure you would get a great deal plus an awesome exchange rate.

 

I know they said that Canadian's couldn't buy from US, but can US buy from O' Canada?

 

I am not sure if you can but when did it change that Canadians couldnt buy American Acura's?

My co-worker bought a new 2007 TL a little more than a year ago down in So-Cal and had no problem bringing it up and all the warranty is good etc.

 

If what you say is true, I need to move to your dealership.

 

Hmm I have owned 6 TLs since 04My 04 and my 09 I paid far over invocie the rest were at Invoice, and my ownership expierience is no different. And to say what I pay determine how "nice" I am is ignorant. I can go into a dealer and fairly negotiate a deal and both parties can still be "nice" as long as they respoect each other. If a dealer is willing to go to a certain price point that is fine, no one is holding a gun to their head. My dealer tends to make less on me becsue he know I refer people and he knows I flip my cars frequently.

 

Yea - right! Of all the cars I have purchased over the years there have only been several salesreps that have "earned" a decent profit. I can go in and buy a car in less than an hour. If I start getting the run around or bait and switch, I'm gone. The sales reps usually do no more than wear the soles off of their shoes running back and forth to the sales manager for each and every question. The days that a single salesrep greets, evaluates my trade-in, negotiates the sale, writes the agreement and escorts me to the finance rep are over. I'm not trying to bash salesreps. It's a tough job, especially now. But to think that I should feel obligated to pay more than I should for a car or house is absurd.

 

In that instance that is acceptable for refferalls. I can say that over the hundreds of deals I have made and the thousands I have witnessed, the price you pay is directly proportional to the experience had.

 

And invoice or less makes for a most pleasant experience indeed.